starting with Dark Angels

[Badgobbla]

Hi,

I'm starting a Dark Angels army in the next couple of weeks, but I'm a bit at a loss as what to get.

For now I have a reasonal bit of Ravenwing (14 bikers, 2 landspeeders and 2 attack bikes), but I want to expand this to a complete Dark Angel army.

I'm thinking about getting the battleforce boxed set (15 tactical marines, 1 command squad and 1 razorback/rhino) as a starting point, but I'm not sure as what to get next.

I certainly want a Land Raider (maybe Crusader) for a Terminator Assault Squad and lots of tanks (rhinos and razorbacks, maybe some whirlwinds, not sure about those last ones).

Any ideas, feedback or suggestions would be welcome from experienced Dark Angel players.

Thx,
Gobbles

[Melchor]

Get yourself a nice HQ model! How about a librarian? Stick him and the command squad in the rhino/razorback, drive up to the enemy, disembark, deliver plasma/psychic power death.
Or get a nice commander with a combi-plasma and repeat the same formula.

Or get an assault squad and stick a Chaplain with them. Or better yet, get him a bike and stick him with your Bikers! You can of course do this with a librarian/commander as well...

Remember, just because people see DA as a shooty force, doesn't mean they can't assault as well! They can do that just as well as codex chapters...

on the modelling side of things, make sure your characters wear dress... I mean robes! (j/k, I am building a DA army as well)

[Odin]

The Battleforce could be a good starting point, as you will need to ensure you have a decent amount of core troops (at least 1 Tactical squad per 500 points, I'd suggest). Devastators are good in a Dark Angels army, because they can take casualties from shooting and always hold their position (thanks to intractible). Your Ravenwing models will be handy, as they can offset any mobility problems.

You will need at least one unit with a bit of clout in close combat, but you'll have to sacrifice quite a lot to get a Land Raider Crusader full of Assault Terminators. Having said that, they would kick arse pretty effectively, especially if led by a Hero (Grand Master with Sword of Secrets?). Sounds like fun, perhaps I'll try it.

One important thing to bear in mind is that we should be due a new Codex some time in the next 20 years, so it may be best to focus initially on the parts of the Codex which you know will not change (much). Deathwing, Ravenwing, Command Squads and Dreadnaughts are probably the most likely things to be subject to change I would think.

[Lion El Jason]

Your Landspeeders and attack bikes will go well in a DA force, I'd advise you leave the bikes at home when not playing pure Ravenwing.

The battle force isn't bad, you may prefer the DA tactical box though, it has a Dark Angels Sergeant and a Dark Angels Plasma Cannon (Which are nice models) It won't come with special weapons though. And each squad can have a razorback to up the tank count and provide extra firepower.

If you want terminators you should wait a while and get the new plastics. Rumour has it they're out before christmas this year so its not that long to wait. Untill then why not get some regular terminators? A couple more assault cannon would beef up your firepower, and until the assault terminators are out you can always use these, 2 power fist attacks per model is not a bad deal in any assault!
The Crusader is a good option (If you want to use assault terminators you NEED a transport) but you'll only use it in larger games (1500+ probably) so maybe wait until the assault terminators are out and then buy a crusader AND the assault squad? Also see my Deathwing Tactica on this page for more termie info.

For your heavy tanks, a whirlwind is a great artillery piece. I have 3 of them and I'd happily choose all 3 in 1850 points! Thats all the heavy support but IMO these will make themselves useful even against 3+ save armies. Again I'd worry about your anti tank though so I'd suggest a predator annihilator with the all las loadout, a whirlwind and then a choice of whats left (Vindicators are fun too!) or leave the space for your Land Raider.

[Lion El Jason]

Originally Posted by Odin

Deathwing, Ravenwing, Command Squads and Dreadnaughts are probably the most likely things to be subject to change I would think.

what makes you think dreadnoughts will change?

[Odin]

Quote

what makes you think dreadnoughts will change?

Sorry, a bit of an obscure comment, perhaps I should explain. We were allowed to keep plasma cannons on our dreads by the Q&A, but on past experience I can't help thinking that they might be taken away when the Codex is released. Perhaps I'm just paranoid, but it seems like a temporary thing, and I'm used to the DAs being given something special only to have it taken away, or made available to every other chapter.

[Lion El Jason]

Aah, I take your point, I suppose if it does change there'd have to be a new GW model of the plasma cannon arm and that seems unlikely...

But they could take that opportunity to do a multi melta arm too?

[Badgobbla]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I was also thinking of getting at least one Scout Squad, because I really love the models. I would like to use these as a small firebase (I'll be taking two sniper rifles, one missile launcher and two bolters) to take out any annoying targets or pin them in place with the sniper rifles.

I'll be sure to check out the DA Tac boxed set, but if there's only a plasma cannon in it I'm not sure if it's worth buying. Anyone have any experience with the plasma cannons in the new rules? I mean: 3 shots which have to hit on a 4+ and any 1, 2 or 3 cause a hit on the shooter? I'm not really convinced, but hey.

[Lion El Jason]

no, plasma cannon are heavy 1 blast.
they have 1 shot, hit on 3+ and have a blast. if you roll a '1' the model takes a hit.

PCs are ok you'l want some other heavy weapons but they will also be on your razorbacks

[Badgobbla]

Originally Posted by Lion El Jason

no, plasma cannon are heavy 1 blast.

Ooops, my bad then.

And yes, I plan to equip all my razorbacks with twin-linked lascannons to get some mobile firepower. I'm still thinking if I'll put some marines in those Razorbacks.

[wldside]

On the topic of Dred's personally I'm hoping they bring the Mortis pattern into the regular codex. I personally love it, if for no other reason than the looks you get when it shows up on the board :-)
As for the scouts it's been my experience that they work better if you tool them up to do one thing, ie take all snipers or all bolters, etc. I've actually seen a group armed entirely with shotguns be fairly effective. If you want them to be a firebase for you then taking 6-9 snipers and a missle launcher would probably be the better way to go. Personally, I always suggest going with larger squads, esspecially with snipers, simply because it means they can take some causulties and still remain pretty effective.

[Badgobbla]

@ wldside: I see your point concerning the scouts, but I just don't want to have a cheesy army. For me cheesy would be 10 scouts all armed with sniper rifles and 1 missile launcher, but you're right that if a unit of 5 takes casualties their effectiveness will be drastically decreased.

In fact I haven't given any thought for a dread, but if I would include one it would be one with two shooting weapons. I don't see much dreads coming into close combat around here, as we've got a lot of shooty armies here.

I also hope that they will change something about the rule for the plasma cannons, as they are pretty mainstream these days. Whereas the DA are one of the first chapters, who used to be the only ones to have access to Plasma Cannons in Tac Squads.

[Lion El Jason]

Theres nothing cheesy about a scout squad all armes identically, with snipers, bolters or any other!

I don't think the mortis will ever get in the codex. It wouldn't matter though if more tourneys would allow FW and IA stuff in them.

[sigur]

Originally Posted by Lion El Jason

Theres nothing cheesy about a scout squad all armes identically, with snipers, bolters or any other!

This is just another facette of the cheese-debate.

[Odin]

Quote

I don't think the mortis will ever get in the codex. It wouldn't matter though if more tourneys would allow FW and IA stuff in them.

Well, £35 matters to me. I'd love to field a Mortis Dread, but I'm not going to pay £60 for the privelige - £25 for the Dread, £35 for the rules! (anyone know another way to get the rules?)

Nothing wrong with having a scout squad identically armed - it's called common sense. There's no point fielding a squad of scouts with a mixture of close combat weapons, bolters, sniper rifles and a heavy weapon - it's just not effective. The same is true of mixing bolters and snipers (though less so). An all-sniper squad is simply good tactical sense, and also a "realistic" weapons-fit for a squad.

[Badgobbla]

OK, but don't you find a 10 man squad all armed with sniper rifles a bit overkill?

[Odin]

Yes, I'd go for 4 - 6 snipers, plus a missile launcher or heavy bolter. 10 is a bit excessive.

[Lion El Jason]

Originally Posted by Odin

Well, £35 matters to me. I'd love to field a Mortis Dread, but I'm not going to pay £60 for the privelige - £25 for the Dread, £35 for the rules! (anyone know another way to get the rules?)

Aah yeah, the IA books are expensive (£40 for IAvol2), I was going to buy them anyway but if they were allowed in a tourney surely all you need is the points cost? Thats available easily by asking someone who does have the book.

[wldside]

Personally, I usually field 2 dreads, one tooled 2 guns up for fire support and another that's more geared for H2H. I find that even if the H2H one never actually makes it into H2H it provides enough of a distraction that he's still worth while.

As for the PC in 3rd edition I never took the field without at least 2, preferably more. But with the new rules for how to place the templates I find that the PC is a lot less effective. Whereas before you were almost guaranteed to get 2 maybe even 3 guys mostly under the template, with a partial or 2, now unless your enemy packs his guys together you're probably not going to get more than 1 under and a partial. At this point I think the chance of hurting myself with it actually outweighs the benefit of the template, so lately I've swapping out the PC's for LC's.

[quote=In fact I haven't given any thought for a dread, but if I would include one it would be one with two shooting weapons. I don't see much dreads coming into close combat around here, as we've got a lot of shooty armies here.

I also hope that they will change something about the rule for the plasma cannons, as they are pretty mainstream these days. Whereas the DA are one of the first chapters, who used to be the only ones to have access to Plasma Cannons in Tac Squads.[/QUOTE]

[Brunificus]

Originally Posted by sigur

This is just another facette of the cheese-debate.

Full scout squads with sniper rifles and a missle launher or a heavy bolter ARE NOT CHEESY . I've heard other people say this but how is a unit with a 4+ save and a gun with AP0 cheesy please explain. Yes they are good at killing Wraithlords, DP's ect, but anyone with half a brain keeps them outside 36' or behind cover.

EDIT: Sorry I don't mean to hijack this thread, but god this S#!TS me.