Varingyr Rules Development

Easy E · 18-06-2007, 12:38

Edit: Hellebore's Version of the rules is post #16. The Current Rules Summary Attachment for my version of the Varingyr is on page 10 post 182. Limited Playtest models available on page 10 post 183.

I've noticed a trend in the Background and Art thread to want to discuss rules amongst the participants. So, I felt it was time to create a thread specifically for that purpose.

Thread Goal: To create a playable ruleset for Varingyr forces in 40K 4th edition following the design layout of Codex: Eldar and DA. this means avoiding special rules, sticking to USR, limited armory, and flexability within the FOC.

Before we get into specific units I would like to discuss is the theme/niche/character of the army. How will this army fit into the 40K game system and be unique? What will make it stand out? We will then use those guidelines when constructing the codex.

I propose the following general guidelines:
1. Not easily classified as a Meq or a Geq.
2. Excel at Defensive battles
3. Limited mobility

What else?

barrangas · 18-06-2007, 15:46

Could you give a brief discription of the race? Without a basic background your guidelines can take different shapes or form, for instance:

3. Limited Mobility- Slow and Purposeful to no transports

TheSonOfAbbadon · 18-06-2007, 15:53

For those who don't know, the Varingyr are the new Squats.

HQ
Warden
Guildmaster
Living Ancestor

Elites
Hearthguard
Suggested: "Suicide Guard" [needs a better name]. Engineers' Guild Guard [also in Heavy Support].

Fast Attack
-None-
Suggestions: Scouts, perhaps with the option to take a transport. Perhaps some form of fast, lightly armoured recon. vehicle?

Troops
Shieldbearers
Clan Guard

Heavy Support
-No specific options-
Suggested: Artillery Ordinance weapons. Big, slow moving tank with lots of weapons. Engineers' Guild Guard [also in Elites].
Suggestions: Something inbetween bikes and Rhinoes, small tanks/vehicles, each more armoured than bikes, but not as tough as Rhinoes. Small squads of these could carry long-range heavy weaponry, like the Varingyr equivelant of lascannons and plasmacannons.

The 'Suggested' bits are things suggeted already that seem promising, but haven't been agreed upon. The 'Suggestions' bits are my suggestions.

barrangas · 18-06-2007, 17:31

Originally Posted by TheSonOfAbbadon

Suggested: "Suicide Guard" [needs a better name].

Fated perhaps.

Is there some place where the "established" unit descriptions are to get an idea for the purpose and feel of the army. I'd read trhrough the Death of Squats post, but that'd take days.

Here are some assumptions I have: Some sort of Ancestral worship. Tech level better then the Imperium as they aren't afraid to modify them. No fast vehicles/skimmers/and more then likely open topped vehicles. Fast units like bikes are rare.

Will they b e completely seperate from the Imperium or will they have things like modified Leman Russ, Baslisks, etc?

Easy E · 18-06-2007, 18:26

Yes, sorry about that. The main ideas for the Varingyr can be found in these two threads:

Background
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46402
Here are some bits of interest: Post number 72, 75, 93, 208, 216, 239, 262, 364, 372, 426, 431, 451, 451, 462, 591, 636, 638, 667, 766, 896. Also be sure to read pages 8 and 40. This should give you an idea of what the new background is.

Concept Art
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...=59021&page=15

Be warned, these threads are rather long and cover a variety of topics. Essentially, the Varingyr are a re-imagining of the old Squats into something more modern, interesting, and new. It takes some typical dwarf archetypes, and tries to spin them into something for 40K.

At this point, I want to stay away from specific troop choics, FOC allocation, and unit ideas, and instead talk about how we want the army to play on the tabletop.

TheSonOfAbbadon · 18-06-2007, 18:37

All your assumptions are correct. The only place to go for info on units in the concept art thread in the Stories and Art board, which is kind of changing into a background development thread.

They will be completely seperate from the Imperium, in fact there will be three types of Varingyr:
True [proper Varingyr, Ancestor worship, organised]
Maelstrom [not neccesarily Chaos, but definitely influced by the warp, no Ancestor worship, only do things for personal gain]
Tainted [Genestealer cults, I'm not sure exactly what they are, if they're Genestealers who have bred with Varingyr or they just worship Genestealers, I'm not sure. These guys do have Ancestor worship, and in the minority]

This will be the 'True' Varingyr list, as it'll probably be the easiest to do, and the most interested.

I, personally, do not want Imperial tanks or vehicles in the Varingyr list, but Imperial influenced vehicles make sense, so a Land Raider-esque tank is alright with me, as long as it's significantly different. Others may have other opinions on this, though.

Here are some descriptions of the units:

HQ
Warden: Elite veteran soldier, basically a commander.
Guildmaster: A high-ranking member of a guild [or of the Engineers' guild only, we haven't decided whether to have other Guilds in it yet], here to make sure the guild's interests are fulfilled, and to aid in fulfilling them.
Living Ancestor: A really, really old, really, really powerful Varingyr, possibly with psychic powers.

Elites
Hearthguard: I believe these guys are usually reaponsible for guarding high-ranking members of a clan's major family, they are sent to the battlefield to protect important people and aid in the battle.

Troops
Shieldbearers: The most numerous of the units, these guys have strong shields, they work together to protect themselves from enemy fire. They form a wall of shields, giving them great toughness and resilience.
Clan Guard: Less numerous, more mobile. Whilst the Sheildbearers are a static wall of shields, the Clan Guard can move faster, and are used to protect the Shieldbearers from flanking maneuvres and to weaken the enemy for further attacks.

Other
Engineers' Guild Guard: The Engineers' Guild has many secrets, and many interests, these guys are an elite force, trained to pursue those interests and protect those secrets. They utilise powerful weapons, capable of taking out tanks and heavy infantry with ease.
"Suicide Guard" [possible new name; The Indebted?]: Varingyr society is driven by money and an honour code. The Indebted are those who have either done something terrible to disgrace themselves, or owe so much to another, that they must give up their rights as an individual to gain repentance. They give themselves to others, perhaps to a ruling family or to the family that they have disgraced/are indebted to, and are used as an elite guard, willing to give up their lives if ordered to. They live to pay off their debt, or seek repentance, which may never come. In an army list they would be elite warriors, probably able to be taken as retinues.

As for how the army should play, I think they should to be a slow, immobile force, that can hit hard when they actually get a shot. Big tanks, big guns, and smaller tanks as well. I'd like them to be mechanised, with alot of options for transports and support vehicles, though not neccesarily for transport purposes, meaning the transport vehicles could act more as fire support, similar to a predator, though perhaps small and with one or two more weapon.

Easy E · 18-06-2007, 19:11

Slow and immobile, but mechanized?
Why mechanize if your not going faster than you can walk?
I guess as a chassis for a large gun.

Lockjaw · 18-06-2007, 21:07

lots of tanks?

The Anarchist · 18-06-2007, 23:25

Hs 0-1; having played the DoW game i loved watching Heavy Bolter turets drop from the sky. so why not have some sort of unit or even a fixed war machine akin to a necron Monolith that cant move with the ability to call upon turets to be dropped from the sky in support of ground forces.
I know this may be a bit out there but i think it seems very defensive, takes dwarfish love of ranged weapons to a whole new level and i just love the imagry

Fast attack; whilst maybe a little cliche some sort of tunneling unit would be nice.

Elite; also one of the largest differnces of the Imperium from Varingyr is that of view of technology. the Varingyr have no religious problems with new tech or even sentient machines (shock horror those little heratics) so why not some sort of robot warriors, that have minds of their own. this could be a real hardcore unit made to take serious punishment something akin to Terminators. i mean Varingyr fight tunnel fights and the like so are going to need something that can duke it out in the pitch black in horrendous conditions. this can all be done but with minimum loss's to the lil guys with their Robots.

TheSonOfAbbadon · 19-06-2007, 06:04

Originally Posted by Easy E

Slow and immobile, but mechanized?
Why mechanize if your not going faster than you can walk?
I guess as a chassis for a large gun.

Exactly. Varingyr can't carry Lascannons on their own, so they have tanks to help them. Also, it gives them added protection.

I don't like the idea of turrets, if they just stay in the one place, they have a limited field of fire, and so your opponent can easily avoid them, and they may never get to shoot at all.

However, a slow moving tank with lots of guns is a must for Varingyr.

A tunneling unit has been suggested, and, despite it's cliche, I'm personnally okay with it if it's done well [no silly-looking drills or pickaxes, perhaps some sort of sonic tunnelling device?].

barrangas · 19-06-2007, 14:53

Okay, to work on concepts such as a "slow army" and FA and Transport units here are some ideas (some of which have already been stated):

1) Low capacity transport with larger guns like a razorback or falcon.
2) Teleport attack troops similar to GK. They are more technologically savy then the Imperium, and it would keep a FA option, while keeping them slow once they arrive. Give their other units access to teleport homers to make them really effective.
3)Drilling units don't strike me as really practicle, I'd imagine they'd be easy to detect. Still, how about a unit that uses modified melta guns to burrow.
4)How about, instead of Suat Bikers, something akin to Assault bikes (2 Wound ATV units that mount heavy weapons). They probably wouldn't be turbo boosted very often to bring heavy weapons into play.
5) Probably no Jump Troops.
6) A Walker might be appropriate.

So mostly I'd personally imagine that they would be heavy on deep strikers for fast units and have very few units that would move at 7+"

lehesu · 20-06-2007, 02:33

I think one of the problems in conveying a "dwarfish" army in 40k is the universal move set at 6". One of the ideas that might work to convey a slowly moving force would be to set the default troop weapon to heavy1 or 2 with a power boost over the las-gun or even the bolter.

Giving the Varingyr troops weapons on the level of Tau Fire Warriors, only Heavy, would give credence to the fact that the Varingyr are more technologically advanced than the Imperium, yet less mobile. Varingyr troops would have power similar to the Tau but no where near the mobility of even the Imperial Guard standard infantry. However, the Varingyr would also be more resilient than either and well suited to defensive battles. In such Varingyr squads, special weapons would important in providing assault type weapons to make movement less vulnerable. In contrast, elite units could be given the SaP USR to counteract this weakness, and fast attack units could be units that feature a bevy of assault weapons in contrast to the more static troop choices.

TheSonOfAbbadon · 20-06-2007, 04:16

Originally Posted by lehesu

I think one of the problems in conveying a "dwarfish" army in 40k is the universal move set at 6". One of the ideas that might work to convey a slowly moving force would be to set the default troop weapon to heavy1 or 2 with a power boost over the las-gun or even the bolter.

I don't see why Varingyr can't move 6" per turn, they're small, yes, but they're strong, and so can lift heavy equipment and run with relative ease. Plus, they have a very small chance of falling over, and they can get through smaller gaps, which would balance it out.

Originally Posted by lehesu

Giving the Varingyr troops weapons on the level of Tau Fire Warriors, only Heavy, would give credence to the fact that the Varingyr are more technologically advanced than the Imperium, yet less mobile. Varingyr troops would have power similar to the Tau but no where near the mobility of even the Imperial Guard standard infantry. However, the Varingyr would also be more resilient than either and well suited to defensive battles. In such Varingyr squads, special weapons would important in providing assault type weapons to make movement less vulnerable. In contrast, elite units could be given the SaP USR to counteract this weakness, and fast attack units could be units that feature a bevy of assault weapons in contrast to the more static troop choices.

This is, of course, assuming that basic weapons count as heavy, which is ludicrious, as it make the army very inflexible and extremely vulnerable.