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| Warhammer 40,000 Tactics Discuss the art of war in the 41st Millennium. |
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#1 |
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Commander
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This thread is meant to be a "STICKY", please don't respond to this thread here. Direct all questions to the WitchHunter Tactica thread.
The following is a basic overview of the WitchHunter army using Sisters of Battle as the core troop choice. I have taken many posts from the Tactica WitchHunter thread and added some of my comments to those posts. Some posts may appear verbatim from the original Tactica WitchHunter thread. Special thanks to StJohn70 and mkerr. (both post regularly on the Tactica WitchHunter thread). Fifth Edition updates will appear in this color.
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 22:21. |
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#2 |
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Commander
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A brief collection of useful knowledge
1)The easiest list to create and use is the all mechanized scoot & shoot list. (see StJohn70’s section) still true 2)WitchHunters featuring Sisters of Battle lists need to have focus, more so than other codexes. still true 3)Hand to hand combat vs. Marine Equivalents are the Sister's Achilles Heel Sisters tooled up for close combat, don't excel at it after the initial assault. still true 4)The use of Celestians is a matter of personal taste, same with Seraphim and Dominions. still true 5)The best Officio Assassin is a Callidus or Eversor with a 3 Death Cult assassin back-up. Assassins are not worth as much as they used to be, they all give up a "kill point" when they die (which is what they're supposed to do!) If you include these in your force try to outflank with them. 6)A 6-8 man Inquisitorial Storm Trooper squad with 2 plasma guns and a Chimera with multi-lazer and hull mounted heavy Bolter is a good basic selection. still true 7)Inquisitor & retinue- Excel at shooting. (See Elite shooty Inquisitor later in this digest.) Ok at Psyker role (others don't play much with Psykers) Not so great at close combat. still true 8)Land Raider - A big point sink for a mobile pill box. And only the Inquisitor (with retinue) can ride in it! On your first turn the Inquisitor and retinue can disembark and another squad can embark, but then you've wasted some time getting setup. AND your opponent now knows what exactly is riding around in the LandRaider 9)Adding allies to a WitchHunter list is usually bad, generally you lose focus and waste points.still true (although mkerr makes a pretty mean Guard & Sisters list) I don't know if mkerr is still fielding the afore mentioned list. 10)Don't buy\use repentia. Cool figs, pathetic rules. Zealots fill their role much better. still true 11)Penitent Engines are too fragile, but mostly it's the lack of control. (although they are seeing a resurgence in Cities of Death, where ample cover gives them a chance to be effective) still true 12)Orbital stikes almost never hit what you're aiming at. Something like a 1 in 9 chance to hit the target. Save your points for Exorcist tanks. still true 13)One exorcist dies fast, two is the better option. (force your opponent to make choices) still true 14)You can't use Divine Guidance to boost your weapon results when shooting a vehicle. still true 15) Seraphim can't deep strike. This has changed now that JumpPack=DeepStrike. However, tactically speaking, Seraphim still won't use this rule very much as they are somewhat fragile and it can be difficult to get into position to support them when they arrive. 16)Acts of Faith have a specific time to be used. Tell your opponent that they're giving you a tactical advantage if they don't let you use them at the appropriate time. still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 22:33. |
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#3 |
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Commander
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The Digest according to StJohn70
Unit Usefulness Breakdown HQ Canoness: The cream of the codex. Works well tooled up or to just sit back and direct your lines with a book of St Lucius. Run two if your list is over 1500. I like to run her with an Eviscerator, Cloak of St Aspira, Jumppack, and Bolt Pistol (if I run 2, the 2nd one has the Blessed Weapon and frags). The JumpPack is much more of a liability as she can't "hide" near a unit of Seraphim without auto-joining and preventing the Seraphim from using hit and run. She can be easily overwhelmed with close combat attacks. She now excells in a retinue of celestians where it is very difficult to kill her directly. Palatine: Poor man's Canoness. For only 10 pts more, you get 1 more attack, 1 more wound, 1 more Leadership, and 1 more Faith. Points well spent, thank you. still true OH Inquisitor Lord: Good in 3rd Ed as a screened firebase. Now he sucks. Why? If you try to make an assault unit, it can only produce an ok assault unit, which costs more than many other armies' elite assaulters - and they struggle with delivery. He is (generally) not needed for the Psychic Hood, Sisters have enough protection from psychic powers already. So there isn't a whole lot of stuff left for him to do. If you do choose to make a firebase out of him, he (and his retinue) will need to be placed into hard cover. Ie a 4+ cover save area! still true Priests: Only useful in Zealot squads. And you need one in your army to take other units. See Section on Zealots. still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 22:42. |
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#4 |
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Commander
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Elites
OH Inquisitor: Suffers from same issues as Lord, but is cheaper. The following is reasonably effective for the points spent. "Shooty" Elite Inquisitor Elite Inquisitor (Boltgun) Retinue: 3 Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors, 1 Acolyte (Carapace Armor, Boltgun), 2 Chirurgeons 136pts still true Arco-flagellants: One of three great looking new models in the WH range - and all their rules suck (le sigh). Arco-flagellants have the potential to be a devastating assault unit. So why don't they work? They are overcosted and have no delivery system. Sure, maybe a unit like this is really worth 35 points, but not if they never reach the opponent. The 4+ save isn't enough to protect them long enough to get them to combat. So in order to get them to combat, you have to activate their implants... which gets them killed - how fun! Any opposing commander who knows anything about this unit will never let it reach his lines. And they're too expensive to use as a distraction of that sort. If you know you’ll be defending a location on the board, try to set them up as counter-assault. The last sentence here is where they could become useful in 5th edition, but you need to shield them from a majority of incoming fire and if they go to ground they can still suffer when assaulted. Celestian Squad: Decent unit. 2 more pts than a Battle Sister gets you Faithful without a VSS, +1 Ld, +1 WS, and Hatred (preferred enemy: everyone). Is it worth it? Not normally. They are a good choice if you want a smaller unit (less than 10), and you don't want/need a VSS. They make a decent 6-model unit with 2 meltas for tank-hunting. Don't get fooled into thinking that because of Hatred that they can be a good assault unit. They become an "ok" assault unit - but their strength still lies in bolters and Faith - and in those areas, Battle Sisters are just as good. You also have to be careful here, because you cannot kill the VSS to gain a Faith point back. still true Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! T3 with a 4+ save = Heavy Bolter bait. Even if they do reach the enemy (through some miracle), they still strike last and will lose another significant portion of their numbers before they even strike. The only squads they are good against are expensive models - more expensive than their whole squad: vehicles, dreads, monstrous creatures, and terminators. But no one will ever let them get there, and they're even easier to stop than Arco-flagellants are. still true Temple Assassins: Hardly ever earn their points back when used alone. You have to have an Inquisitor to take one. They give up kill points when they die (like they're supposed to!) Death Cult Assassins: This assassin is worth her points. Too bad an Inquisitor is required to take one. A great use is to use their Infiltration to create a virtual Denied Flank. Infiltrate three of them on one flank will make many commanders avoid that area entirely. Because of their bad save, they must use cover before until attacking. DCAs must work together to tie-up or sweep an enemy unit. They’re also good for denying the “good” infiltration spots in your line, so that your opponent can’t setup there and has therefore wasted some of his infiltration ability. Kill points hurt these assassins as well.
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 22:49. |
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#5 |
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Commander
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Troops
Battle Sisters Squad: If the Canoness is the cream, these gals are the bread and butter. Default sized for rhino deployment or larger (14 or 16) for foot-slogging. Always, always, always take the VSS. Weapon options: flamers (heavy and normal) are only good if you have a transport to deliver them in; meltaguns are great too - should be the only weapon in foot-sloggers; stormbolters are not a good option. Sure stormbolters give you more ranged firepower, but are really only worth it if your unit is going to sit back - Sisters should never just sit back. The most preferred loadout is Heavy Flamer & Meltagun. On the VSS, unequipped except for a bolter is great; also good is a Book of St Lucius (on every second or third unit - remember to use their 6" range!); and another great option is an Eviscerator. The eviscerator is good because it can actually make your unit a bit of a tarpit when it comes to assaults. And you're one Act of Faith away from insta-killing any opposing Independent Character that decides to take you on. Combi-flamer or Brazier are ok... I just don't really go for the one-use weapons in normal situations. Every other weapon option is terrible. StJohn70 has recently rescinded his high opinion of Eviscerators, they are now marginally useful. (late 2007) still true, more so on the eviscerator. For the high points you pay, it generally isn't worth it on a low strength/weapon skill model Inquisitorial Stormtroopers: Let's see here, for 1 pt less than Battle Sisters, you get -1 Save, worse vet option, much worse gun, and no Faith. But you get access to plasmaguns and chimeras. A single unit of 6 Stormtroopers with 2 plasma guns and a Chimera with Heavy Bolter and Multi-lazer can be an effective unit. still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 22:53. |
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#6 |
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Commander
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Fast Attack
Seraphim: This unit and it's proper use can win you more games than any other unit in your army. They can assault, counter-assault, tank-hunt, and IC hunt. Hand flamers are great for an assault unit, inferno pistols great for small tank-hunting units, and one of each great for all-purpose units. A VSS is required if you want this unit to assault. She provides the punch and a built-in Imperialis Simulacrum. I prefer eviscerators on her, so much more power. Strength 3 Power Weapons are worthless, in fact they near guarantee that you'll use an extra Faith to get +2 Strength and then you'll be going last anyways! with the exception of "hunting" Independent Characters, the above is still true Dominion Squad: Expensive option - often overlooked because of the stunning qualities of the Seraphim. I prefer them with flamers. Meltaguns are too expensive in this unit - you can pull off melta units with either Celestians for small units, or Battle Sisters for larger. Some mix 2 flamers and 2 meltas - this could be good too. I also prefer the 10 model unit in rhino over Immolators (but that discussion is in a later post). VSS is also required here, but I like the model unequipped except for a bolter. Used in games of 2000+ points. V ery expensive options generally prevent people from fielding these units. In high point games (2000+) these are fielded in a standard TROOPS configuration in an effort to spam as many sisters units as possible.
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 22:58. |
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#7 |
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Commander
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Heavy Support
Retributors: Good with Heavy Bolters, generally not with Multi-Meltas. I like to apply the same principle with Devastator squads (2:1 ratio) here. That means either 8 Retributors with 4 HvyB's or 6 Ret's with 3 HvyB's. VSS is also required for Faith. Do not make the mistake of trying to use Faith on this unit. Divine Guidance is made for up close shooting - as in rapid fire range. The Heavy Bolters are powerful enough that they don't require a lot of assistance, save it for the bolters. To be able to get any mileage from Multi Meltas you have to deploy them as far forward (and in cover) as possible! Then support them by distracting the enemy, Death Cult Assassins or Seraphim work well for this. still true, except assassins aren't much of a distraction any more...and they give up kill points Immolator: I will never take one. Sure, they're fluffy, and the model is great. But man do they ever have a target painted on them. More appropriately named, "Flaming Coffin of Doom." Because of this issue, I also do not like them as Transport options, where available. Factory Default Rhinos* do it for me. If you can field enough Immolators (11 to 15) then you can use them in a target saturation tactic, but this is prohibitively expensive. (most people don't own that many Immolators Exorcist: Also known as, "The reason I never take Retributors." This is the only model in the whole codex that I am willing to "give up" Faith for. In other words, it is not Faithful and brings no Faith to my list. Who cares? Holy crap, this thing is good! One is a bit of a gamble, so two are required for most 1500 lists. Want to see an opponent cry? Bring three. Some people cry cheese, beardy, OTT, etc. But the truth of the matter is, that the Exorcist is the only (viable) real long-range firepower that the list has. still true Penitent Engines: Big, beautiful model. Buy one, paint it, put it on the shelf and sigh. This thing blows. 80pts? 11AV?? Open-topped??? GAH!!! This might, might, might(!) be worth it if you were allowed to give it smoke launchers (maybe), but you're not, so it's not. Save them for Cities of Death where the cover can allow them to be effective! still true Orbital Strike: DH players don't even use this... don't you either. still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:03. |
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#8 |
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Commander
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*Factory Default Rhinos - contrary to popular belief, Rhinos come from the factory with Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers installed and cost 58 pts, not 50.
still true, until a new Codex:Witch Hunters is released Extras Zealots: Ok, these should probably go in Troops, but since they're not in the codex, I'm putting them here. 20 of these with Eviscerator Fanatics and a Priest are scary. Fragile, but scary. Demagogues and Exterminators are not required and just bump up the point cost of the unit.(rules found in US WD292 & UK WD 304) still true Inducted Guard: Infantry Platoons can be used to give your OrdoHereticus list firepower - but that requires you to be running Imperial Guard. Sentinels are a decent option as well. (They're part of my "fun" OH giants list - to be seen later.) Leman Russ can provide a bit of "oomph," too. still true, however, with the new IG codex all the good new stuff is NOT available to Sisters without the IG army being the parent list. Allied Marines: Not worth it at all. Can't have Sisters in the list. Guard do it just as well for inducting purposes. If you want to mix marines, then take a marine army and add Witchhunter allies. still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:07. |
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#9 |
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Commander
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Basic Mechanized Sisters Tactics
Deployment & Movement This covers from Deployment to turn 3 (ish). Because anything that happens after that is generally not going to be able to be predicted in a manner that a simple document like this could cover. Primary Tactic: Most Sisters players know this, but I'm going to state the obvious anyways: The primary method of obtaining victory is to maintain your stance of power. The Sisters' "stance of power" is short-range (1-12") shooting. The main objective of a mechanized Sisters of Battle army list is to get your troops into that stance as quickly as possible, and to maintain it for as long as possible. Consider your shooting as a package. The rhino is the delivery vehicle. Note: These tactics are for an opposing, static army - but they are just as applicable versus mobile-mechanized and assault armies. Against mobile-mechanized armies, use the rhinos to keep up with the opponent and apply shooting liberally, they can be easier because the numbers of models in mobile-mechanized armies are lower. Against assault armies, you can even foot it, using a turn outside the rhinos to shoot at models in range. Then use the rhinos to drive a path (tank-shock!), dividing the army into manageable chunks... shoot and flame to your leisure Deployment: My deployment rules are simple. 1 - Place Exorcists to control major fire-lanes. Many opponents do not want their vehicles staring down that missile launcher. If you're worried about his anti-tank, place behind a piece of terrain that you can drive into on turn 1 and fire from. 2 - Start rhino deployment in center of your DZ. Try to shield, but center is more important than shielding. Then pick one side (usually the side towards where you opponent is deploying his troops - but not always), deploy additional rhinos to that side, and that side only - staying relatively near the center. You can either set them all up on the same side as your Exorcists, to overload a flank, or opposite your Exorcists to have them refuse that flank. 3 - Seraphim hide behind rhinos or to a shielded side of them. Canoness' are by the Seraphim, but never join them. generally, still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:10. |
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#10 |
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Commander
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Turn 1:
With the new objective rules, many opponents will opt to go second - to gain than last grab for table quarters, objectives, etc. This is good for us - because on Turn 1 our rhinos are most fragile (if you're really worried about it, you can deploy the units outside the rhinos... how often do you unload at the end of Turn 1??). You want to go first though. It increases your odds of winning by... a lot. (Note to non-WH players: do not read this... I am, um, lying - yeah that's it, lying.) Why? Because a lot of whether or not you win or they win is based upon them stopping the rhinos. If they stop rhinos before your girls are able to get close enough and have to foot it the rest of the way there... (well, you just know how cranky your Sisters get when they have to walk far in those heels!), then they have won. If you go first, your opponent will get one round of shooting your transports before the get there. If you go second, he gets two. He doubles his chances of stopping your assault. Against "shooty" armies, this can be disastrous. So how do we use our deployment and first turn to enable delivery? My favorite tactic is Bisecting. This is both harder and easier against a castled opponent - but your standard spread deployment opponent makes for a standard Bisection. Bisection is the practice of dealing with part of the opponent's army at a time (specifically, half). Drive two rhinos straight forward to form a wall at/near the table center (if there's terrain there, this is even easier) and pop smoke. Other rhinos should "hide" behind this wall - the forward one may still need to use their smoke. With the Seraphim/Canoness safely behind all this. If done right, you've allowed your opponent to really only shoot at 2 smoked, rhinos. At the same time, bring your Exorcist’s guns to bear on the unit(s) most likely hurt your rhinos: devastator squads & tanks. Make your opponent pay attention to them. He should now be stuck as to what to attempt to take out - the rhinos or the Exorcists. Note: in my games, I typically lose 0-1 rhinos in the first turn, and suffer a damaged exorcist - sometimes destroyed. Turn 2: If you have more than 1 rhino lost at this point: the game may be rough - or you didn't screen properly - or the dice gods hate you. Move any remaining rhinos that have not used their smoke to the fore-center of the table, and use their smoke. Possibly deploying a unit on the forward rhino on your protected side (especially if you lost a rhino). The other rhinos pull max distance ahead to the protected side of your rhino wall and deploy troops. Make sure that your rhinos do no block LOS for your Exorcists to what they need to shoot at. Note: you choose what side is the "protected" side... I've changed my mind at this point in the game as to which side I wish to go after. Seraphim again move up behind the new wall. Canoness may do same, or split to start "hunting" - try to make sure something else will be closer to enemies though... nothing quite like having to burn Faith early to protect her in the shooting phase. Use a "focus of fire" to engage larger units with your deployed sisters. Engage small units (6 man minimized squads) on a one-to-one basis. You should be able to wipe out most anything within immediate range with judicious use of Divine Guidance. Sidenote Tactic: My favorite Battle Sister Squad configuration has a Heavy Flamer and Meltagun. Against lighter troops, if there is a vehicle behind their squad, I have a tactic of firing at the vehicle with the squad - allowing the meltagun to damage the vehicle, and the hvy flamer to take out models in the squad (as long as the template hits the vehicle). My local Tau players have learned to never deploy in front of their vehicles... If your Seraphim are in charge range, go ahead - but since you've been shielding them, I highly doubt it. This turn is designed to make your opponent wince and to refocus his attention on your package. From this point on, if your Exorcists are ok, he will probably not have the luxury of being able to shoot at them. generally, still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:11. |
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#11 |
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Commander
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Turn 3:
You probably have one squad engaged by an opposing unit - if they're small, a Canoness can easily worm them out. You may consider abandoning the unit, either killing the VSS, or using Spirit of the Martyr to make them a tarpit to hold that unit for the rest of the game (my favorite tactic against assault squads). Move undeployed rhino units (if they're ok) up to find a Divine Guidance target, combo them with a unit that you suffered some losses in and aren't sure about getting off your Act of Faith (< 8). Generally use the Battle Sisters to sweep through whatever troops are on that side of the battlefield. Use any still running rhinos to continue to shield them from other half of army - tank-shocking where beneficial (e.g. any non-fearless/tank-hunting unit) - even Leadership 10 fails. Bring up any previously Entangled units. Move Seraphim to intercept counter-charge units and engage them. Use unit edges to minimize the return damage threat. On your opponent's turn, you'll use Spirit of the Martyr (if power weapon/fist is there) to minimize casualties, then Hit-n-Run. Move Canoness' to hunt small units and IC's, or even armor if Evisc equipped. Wrap Up If you've come this far, the game is pretty much in hand. Continue to use the Seraphim to prevent your Battle Sisters from being engaged, then jumping out on your opponent's turn to leave them vulnerable to fire. You'll lose a unit or two at this point, but that's ok - you'll need their Faith soon enough. If your opponent runs his other half army away, use your rhinos and exorcists to corral them. Weaponless exorcists can still tank-shock and/or grab objectives. Seraphim and Canoness can catch most runners easily. Manage your Faith, get it back via Martyrdom when necessary. If you think a unit might break, make sure to pull either the VSS as a casualty or all models in base-to-base, since you get no Faith being run down. generally, still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:12. |
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#12 |
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Commander
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Faith Usage
Faith Guideline - I believe you should have a base 2 Faith, +2-3 for every 500 points in the army: 500 points 4 Faith 1000 points 6-7 1500 points 8-10 1850 points 10-12 Proper use of Faith will win the battle. Without it, Sisters are on the bottom of the food chain... even below orks (ouch). Allow me to cover two things before getting into the Acts of Faith themselves. 1 - Imagifer/Imperialis Simulacrum. Allows you to roll 3 dice and pick best two for an Act of Faith once per turn. Sound good? You bet. Overused? Too often. The best use of this item comes for units that have to accomplish certain tasks. Have to. Fortunately, the unit (Seraphim) that most often has to absolutely do something, comes with it built-in to their VSS. I don't know why I see this in people's Battle Sister Squads, I really don't. Squads should be designed in size to accomplish the type of Act you expect that squad to need to roll. Really only Seraphim and Canoness' are the ones that will use multiple types of rolls (roll >= or <=). 2 - "Kennying." Brought to us by our friends at South Park. "Kennying" is the method of gaining Faith to use in the army, by pulling a VSS as a casualty - especially when she doesn't need to be. Granted, this should preferably be an unequipped VSS, so you're not wasting points. Some lists can really burn through the Faith, and getting it back is very important - more important than a single VSS in a depleted squad, anyhow. somewhat undesirable due to the kill point rules Acts of Faith Hand of the Emperor: Only use should be to make an Eviscerator wielding model Strength 8 for purposes on insta-killing. Could also be used as last-ditch effort to make squad Strength 5 to hurt Monstrous Creatures, but normally not. Now that 5th edition allows you to hit the rear armor (on a vehicle) from any facing in assault, this AoF could see some more use. Divine Guidance: Short-range bolter fire and single flamer templates, oh yes. Hardly ever worth it in assault. (Most used Act of Faith) The Passion: Rare and judicious use of this Act of Faith is called for. The +2 Initiative is rarely going to make a difference, excepting a Blessed Weapon wielding Canoness. Light of the Emperor: Again, a rare Act of Faith. Saving small units from running off the table is very rarely worth it. Spirit of the Martyr: Friend of Seraphim and Canoness' everywhere. Other squads can use it as well, if engaged with especially deadly units, in order to tarpit them. (Second-most used Act of Faith) generally, still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 15-11-2009 at 16:32. |
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#13 |
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Commander
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Example Tournament Army List
1850 Sisters - Order of the Dusty Rose HQ - 244 pts Canoness, Jump, Cloak, BlessWpn/InfP, Frags - 131 pts Canoness, Jump, Cloak, Evisc/BP - 111 Pts Troops - 870 pts 10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Melta, VSS w/ Evisc & BoSL in *Rhino - 234 pts 10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Melta, VSS w/ Evisc & BoSL in *Rhino - 234 pts 10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Flamer, VSS w/ Bolter in *Rhino - 200 pts 10 Battle Sisters, 2 x Melta, VSS w/ Bolter in *Rhino - 202 pts Fast Attack - 466 pts 8 Seraphim, Hand Flamer, Inferno Pistol, VSS w/ Evisc - 233 pts 8 Seraphim, Hand Flamer, Inferno Pistol, VSS w/ Evisc - 233 pts Heavy Support - 270 pts Exorcist - 135 pts Exorcist - 135 pts
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! |
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#14 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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Delivery & Sustainability
This is normally a discussion that assault armies have. Guess what? Sisters function as an assault army... just without all the "assaulting". The capacity for a Sisters of Battle army to win is entirely based on their ability to get units into short range. Sisters are not an army that can sit back and shoot (except versus all-out assaulters, like Tyranids). They just don't have the ranged capability to force the opponent to come to them; instead, it is they who must go and get. This part of the tactica applies to all types of Sisters armies, not just mechanized. Sisters function best in the less than 12" range - the closer the better if you have flame templates. This lends itself to two problems: 1. Delivery. How do you get there? Shooty armies will try to prevent you from getting there, and assault armies will try to minimize the time you have before they are on you. 2. Sustainabilty. Assault armies and counter-assault units tend to come into major focus when you're 1-12" away from the enemy lines. What prevents them from tying up your units? The less time you spend shooting, the more time your opponent has to make sure you don't win. As long as you're shooting, your opponent is reacting to you (which is good) - when your units aren't shooting, and you're desperately doing what you can to get them out of combat, then you're reacting to your opponent (which is bad). Delivery So, what are your choices for Delivery? Often it comes down to the basic choice of Mechanized or Foot-slogging. Mechanized Pros * Gets you there faster * Allows you to react better to Refused Flank, Pincer Moves, etc - even countering with your own maneuvers. * Extra Armour & Smoke Launchers give a really good chance of successful arrival. * Can maximize use of flame templates. * Empty transports can Tank Shock to cut off support, or to bunch up units for flame goodness. * Vehicles moving downfield can be used as "mobile terrain" to screen other units (Seraphim & Cannoness particularly) from enemy fire. Cons * Lower model count. * If your opponent can stop your transports, you're pretty well screwed. * All those vehicles moving downfield can block firelanes for your shooters - Exorcists & Retributors. Foot Pros * High model count. 115 3+ save models on the board? Yes, thank you. * Bigger units to ensure better Faith usage. * Highly adaptable. Cons * Slow - it takes a minimum of 3 turns to get into rapid fire range versus static armies. Longer if they back up. * Versus Shooty armies, can have their numbers reduced significantly, making proper Faith usage hard. * Versus Assault armies, can be difficult to move reinforcements to a flank under attack. It is much easier to "roll up a flank" against foot troops. So what method of delivery works best? It's entirely up to you. I have chosen Mechanized, but that doesn't mean that Foot is wrong - just that it's wrong for me. I can see the benefit and potential strengths of Foot... what I don't see, is the benefit of mixing the two. I know some people run mixed armies, but here's why I think it doesn't work. The success behind Mechanized lies in providing your opponent with more targets than he can probably take out. When there are 4-6 smoked/obscured rhinos/immolators downfield, it gets tough to stop them all. When there are 1-2, it doesn't become so much of an issue. It very well may work against an opponent that doesn't have much anti-tank capability, but not against those that do. Yes, I know that there are several here that will disagree with me on this point in particular - so realize that this is just my opinion. Sustainability To get into rapid-fire range is one thing. To stay there relatively unscathed - that is another thing entirely. There are 3 main things that can help you with Sustainability. 1. Focus of Fire. Using multiple units to rapid-fire into a single, opposing unit. This can reasonably wipe out (or reduce to 1-2 models) most units you will ever come up against. 2. Limit Visibility. Use terrain, close combats, or vehicles to block Line of Sight and Line of Assault from the rest of the opposing army. (See: "Mechanized Deployment/Movement Tactica" on how to "bisect" opposing armies.) 3. Interdiction. Use Canoness and/or Seraphim to jump and assault the unit past the one that you are firing at - tying them up in combat and preventing them from counter-assaulting. This will also help by accomplishing some of #2 - Limit Visibility. This only real concern here is that this role can burn through your Faith faster than anything else... use it, but know when Spirit of the Martyr isn't absolutely necessary. The biggest thing about any of these tactics, is knowing when to attempt them - and that can only be achieved through experience. So get out there and purge some heretic butt! Finis! generally, still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:15. |
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#15 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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A basic list of Battle Sisters without transports.
For 1000 points (lots of fire power) 1 canoness-book of st. lucius, pistol 10 battle sisters-veteran superior 10 battle sisters-veteran superior, melta 5 celestial squad-multi-melta 5 celestial squad-heavy bolter 5 celestial squad-heavy bolter 8 retributers-4x heavy bolter,veteran superior 8 retributers-4x heavy bolter,veteran superior 7 retributers-4x heavy bolter,veteran superior 1004 points exactly 59 models, 10 faith points, 14 heavy bolters (42 shots!), 1 multi, and 1 melta. Concept: I went for no transports so enemy lascannons are not as effective. Hoping for some AP1 shots from my retributers. Advice about above list from mkerr; If you don't play using missions, then you could probably get away with this army. But it will fall apart in even the most basic mission. It has no ability to capture or hold objectives. You'll have LD problems as your army spreads out and the Celestians will fall apart unless you keep them near your Canoness. You've got 12 Heavy Bolters and that's great, but Divine Guidance doesn't work well with Retributors. You spend a Faith point and get 1.3 AP1 wounds (12 shots, 8 hits). For DG to be worth the Faith you really need flamer templates or rapid-firing bolters. It's just not enough shots (12 shots leads to 8 hits giving you only 1.3 AP1 wounds). You will also fall apart against a mechanized opponent. I would focus all of my shots on your Celestian squad with the Multi-Melta and your game would be over. I could shoot you all day from my AV12 vehicles with no fear of your Heavy Bolters. If you have the models for it, then you might get a kick out of playing it but I don't think you'd do well enough to add it to your army list rotation. generally, still true. A better non-vehicle list for fifth edition would probably involve Seraphim on some level.
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 17-11-2009 at 17:58. |
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#16 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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Digest of Nonmechanized Battle Sisters according to mkerr
I think that WitchHunter + Imperial Guard is one of the best WitchHunter army variants. I've been playing it for a couple of years now and I really enjoy it. To make it work, you really need to think out what you want the army to do for you. The strength of the army is unbreakable shooting lines (thanks to Books of St Lucius). I'm about to rework my tournament list (which I'll probably post here) based on my last few games. That wouldn't be a bad template to use as a start. Here are a few comments (and answers): 1. Retributors are better than Celestians, especially if you plan to use Assassins (which I recommend). Basically you need two books of St Lucius for each Infantry Platoon (I use basic Sisters and Retributors in my army). 2. I recommend 2 Infantry Platoons over a Platoon + Armored Fist Squad. If you really want a Chimera (which are great), use Inquisitorial Storm Troopers instead. 3. Inducted Guard don't have access to a Command Platoon like Imperial Guard armies so you don't have as many options (Master Vox, Standard Bearer, etc.). I find the best Command Squad for my platoons is an Autocannon and nothing else. I've tried lots of combinations, but they just end up attracting enemy fire. 4. I also recommend not taking Veterans. Just take Heavy Weapons in your Infantry Squads. 5. I take Autocannons in my Command Squad (they attract less attention) and Lascannons in my Infantry squads (sometimes I'll put in a Missile Launcher or two). If you want Heavy Bolters, put them on your BS4 Sisters. With the release of the new Imperial Guard codex, The IG don't really need anything from the Battle Sisters anymore. The IG usually will field a Canoness with a bolter and Book of St.Lucius to stabilize their lines. And the Battle Sisters can't choose the sweet stuff from the IG codex.
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:19. |
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#17 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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Tournament style list;
HQ Canoness (Jump Pack, Frags, BP/Blessed Weapon, Book, Cloak) ELITE Inquisitor (Bolter), 3 HB Servitors, 1 Chirurgeon, 1 Acolyte (CA, Bolter) Eversor Assassin 3 Death Cult Assassins TROOPS 10 Battle Sisters (2 Meltaguns, VSS w/ Bolter and Book) 10 Battle Sisters (2 Meltaguns, VSS w/ Bolter and Book) Infantry Platoon 1 - Command Squad (Jr Officer w/Storm Bolter&PW, 2 Plasma Guns, Medic, LasCannon) - Infantry Squad A (Grenade Launcher, LasCannon) - Infantry Squad B (Grenade Launcher, LasCannon) Infantry Platoon 2 - Command Squad (Jr Officer w/Bolter&PW, 2 Flamers, Missile Launcher) - Infantry Squad A (Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher) - Infantry Squad B (Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher) FAST Sentinel (ACC. Autocannon) Sentinel (ACC. Autocannon) Sentinel (ACC. Autocannon) HEAVY 8 Retributors (4 HB, VSS w/ Bolter, Book) 8 Retributors (4 HB, VSS w/ Bolter, Book) Leman Russ (BC, 3 HBs, PMHS, TGs, RTM) It is pretty effective. Reasonable CC. Lots and lots of shots, mobility, great Leadership. Tons of scoring units. Army size is around 100 models. NOT still true, the new IG codex changes ALOT of stuff
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:20. |
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#18 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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Army setup and Tactical considerations. Please note that this army is general and you should tweek your army list with what works for you and your play-style.
The army is divided into 3 main sections: 1. The Gun Line: The gun line is composed of two "knots", each consisting of a Command Squad, two Infantry Squads, and a Retributor squad covered in the area of effect of a Book of St Lucius. This gives me a gunline that is unlikely to break. I place these two knots so that they can create both crossfire and enfilading fire on advancing enemy units. In front of each knot is a Battle Sisters squad (this gives me a second Book of StLucius per knot). This unit is used to screen enemy assaulters and to force Target Priority checks. This unit also advances to hold nearby objectives and to tie up fast moving enemy assault troops. If they do their job right, they allow the Gun Line to shoot for the entire game. The Gun Line is supplemented by my Inquisitorial retinue. This brings my Heavy Bolter total to 11 and the scoring units in my gun line to 11. In addition to the 11 Heavy Bolters, I have 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers, 2 Autocannons and 4 Meltaguns in my Gun Line. 2. Fast Moving Assault: Because of the heavy amount of shooting in my army, I use an oblique order tactic (or refused flank) against my opponent. Simply put, this is focusing your attack on a single flank. Since my assault element is deployed late in the game (Canoness + Seraphim), I'm able to choose a flank after my opponent has placed his Heavy and Troop selections. I deploy my Seraphim out of line of sight to take advantage of one of those flanks. After deployment is done, I support my Seraphim with my Assassins. They generally deploy on the same side, giving me a first turn assault with my Eversor (joined by the DCAs on Turn 2 and by the Seraphim on Turn 3). If I'm able to assault a weak location, this force can often win the game for me by rolling up a poorly defended flank. 3. Support Elements: I intially deploy my Sentinels in open locations to encourage my opponent to place units to deal with them, then I use their Scout move after deployment to get them out of LOS (hopefully leaving my opponent's units out of place). Then I use my Sentinels to grab mid-field objectives and shoot down light vehicles and skimmers. My Leman Russ (or Exorcist, depending on the list) is used to draw enemy fire away from my flank. I generally deploy it on the opposing flank or in the center to encourage my opponent to deploy in a manner to deal with it. With Extra Armor and Track Guard, this tank is a tough nut to crack. I also go with a Battle Cannon and 3 Heavy Bolters because the first Weapon Destroyed leaves me with a fantastic Heavy Bolter platform (giving me 14 Heavy Bolters in my shooting phase). probably NOT still true
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:22. |
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#19 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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Here's a diagram of how I usually deploy. It's crude (every deployment is different), but you get the idea.
<IMG SRC="http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r294/montykerr/WH-IG-Deployment.gif"> http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...Deployment.gif
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 16-07-2007 at 00:06. |
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#20 |
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Commander
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wooster, OH (where gamers are scarce, apparently)
Posts: 555
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This deployment is good against standard armies, but doesn't work against everything. If I'm fighting a fast assault army (Blood Angels, Landraider rush, etc.), I will deploy my Assassins in my own line as counter charge (moving up my SoB squads to take the assault and then join the assault on the next turn with my Assassins). Other opponents require different deployments (heavy Infiltrators, lots of Drop Pods, etc.).
probably NOT still true Hope this makes sense. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Battle Sisters Tactical Digest, now updated for 5th. What people are upset with is that GW can (and no doubt will) use "fun" as an excuse to make ambiguous rules and unbalanced units because they're fun! Last edited by Vet.Sister; 14-11-2009 at 23:22. |
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