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UltimateNagash
25-08-2007, 13:52
What do you think of them?
But not the "all SC are rubbish" arguements. Rules-wise only please... And from people who have the Codex please...

So:
Abaddon: is rather (very) expensive, but boy, he's strong. His Daemon Weapons are good - power fist with no drawback at I6! Plus 4 T5 Wounds... The cost might put people off, but I think he's good for his background. 8/10

Fabius: seems better than last time, what with now being Fearless (why shouldn't he be that, or the Inquisitor Ld rule?) and Enhanced Warriors can now give you your S9 fists you wanted. Another 9/10

Huron: rather expensive for what he can do... He's really just a Chaos Lord with Warptime and a heavy flamer... 3/10

Typhus: the problem with him is that he's gotten more expensive but with far less Attacks... 7/10

Kharn: well, he's still good, but now can finally deal with vehicles. Which if you're doing a pure CC army, you need ;) 8/10

Ahriman: suprisingly, not as good a Psyker as Typhus (he needs to take a Psychic test O_o), but I suppose 3 powers, including using all shooting powers in the same turn is still good. Shame he doesn't have Lash, eh? 7/10

Lucius: he's better than before, and that's because a) he doesn't have abilites that contradict one another and b) doesn't loose WS :rolleyes: 7/10

So, what do you guys and gals have to say about them?

Green Shoes
25-08-2007, 14:44
Typhus: the problem with him is that he's gotten more expensive but with far less Attacks... 7/10


Ahriman: suprisingly, not as good a Psyker as Typhus (he needs to take a Psychic test O_o), but I suppose 3 powers, including using all shooting powers in the same turn is still good. Shame he doesn't have Lash, eh? 7/10

This is a little OT, but does Typhus technically insant-kill with his Force weapon because he doesn't need to test for it?

UltimateNagash
25-08-2007, 14:55
No, he doesn't... Cannot be done... only passes his test for Nurgle's Rot and Wind of Chaos

Mr Fulgrim
25-08-2007, 15:19
how does nurgle's rot work now? any changes?

UltimateNagash
25-08-2007, 15:22
It's a Psychic Power now (duh :p) that hits all enemy models within 6'' with a rather weak attack (lasgun shot)...

DarkstarSabre
25-08-2007, 17:20
Typhus: the problem with him is that he's gotten more expensive but with far less Attacks... 7/10


Actually, he's gained -more- attacks. Read the 3.5 Codex. Before Manreaper only did the +D6 attacks against more than one model...being a Daemon weapon now...well, it's ALWAYS +D6 attacks, regardless of whether it's one model or twenty. That seems an improvement to me. Then add in Feel No Pain and the fact it(Manreaper) is now a Force Weapon makes Typhus into a pretty solid all rounder for me.

I'd give him the 8/10 to be honest. He's actually got more attacks overall than before and has gained some nice quirks he didn't have before.

Marius Xerxes
25-08-2007, 17:34
Not really impressed with the fact that you have a 1 in 6 chance of making no attacks at all in a round of HtH. To me that brings down the effect of all the SC's that have them. Oh and I took a wound too?? Nice...

Raven1
25-08-2007, 17:51
But still, in the old codext you had to role when in HtH with demon weapons. I never once failed the test or saw somene fail a test. I thinkyou'll get alot of choppa for a little comprimise. Just think about it a lord already has quit a few attacks plus say you have two CCW a slaanesh demon weapon and a Bolt pistol you charge so you get an extra two attacks for those two rules and then add +D6. Thats a whole squad of marines atleast all those in BtB or within two inches and then he can't retaliate.

Quess Who
25-08-2007, 17:54
Ahriman: suprisingly, not as good a Psyker as Typhus (he needs to take a Psychic test O_o), but I suppose 3 powers, including using all shooting powers in the same turn is still good. Shame he doesn't have Lash, eh? 7/10

Id give him an 8. He is able to deal with anything that can come at him and has a 4++. Stuck in close combat you have 3 attacks in the shooting phase to make some spawn. Ld 10 for psychic tests is not bad. His staff is now a force weapon instead of just a close combat weapon and his bolt pistol has AP3 bullets. Warptime, doombolt, doombolt. I see lots of dead marines :).

Marius Xerxes
25-08-2007, 18:07
But still, in the old codext you had to role when in HtH with demon weapons. I never once failed the test or saw somene fail a test. I thinkyou'll get alot of choppa for a little comprimise. Just think about it a lord already has quit a few attacks plus say you have two CCW a slaanesh demon weapon and a Bolt pistol you charge so you get an extra two attacks for those two rules and then add +D6. Thats a whole squad of marines atleast all those in BtB or within two inches and then he can't retaliate.

I think its a lot harder to fail a Leadership 10 test, then to not roll a 1 at somepoint during the game, in one, of what would be many HtH phases over the course of a battle. The benifits are clearly there, and i wont deny the potential for devastation, but to not be able to attack at all AND take a wound.. thats a little much for me givin the cost of the weapon(s).

Raven1
25-08-2007, 18:09
That is true. I suppose then it is up to each player. To decide chances for utter devastation or to trip and fall and impale ourselves on our own sword. Or have it attack us, whatever demon swords do.

Marius Xerxes
25-08-2007, 18:15
Yeah, I know I will defintly be one to try them out though. Who knows.. only future battles will show how truly good or poor the overall effect of such things will be.

But if im going to have a Deamon Waepon that can hurt myself on.. just give me Stormbringer... thats a sword worth the risk Muahaha.

OracleBoyd
25-08-2007, 18:29
What do you think of them?
But not the "all SC are rubbish" arguements. Rules-wise only please... And from people who have the Codex please...

Fabius: seems better than last time, what with now being Fearless (why shouldn't he be that, or the Inquisitor Ld rule?) and Enhanced Warriors can now give you your S9 fists you wanted. Another 9/10

So, what do you guys and gals have to say about them?

But Fearless is almost the only thing better about him. He's almost 50% more expensive than in the previous codex, but does have a Statline better tyhan his previous average. The enhanced Warriors are (arguably) not as good either. The average roll now gets you fearless, but not the improved Initiative. "Berserk Rage" is slightly better since it adds Fearless, but "Created a Monster" now removes troops during the game rather than afterwards. It does however give you the possibility of a S10 Powerfist without Furious Charge.

Overall, perhaps a slight improvement overall, but it hardly justifies the extra points in my opinion. I think 9/10 is being very generous here.

Kuato
25-08-2007, 19:12
Just think about it a lord already has quit a few attacks plus say you have two CCW a slaanesh demon weapon and a Bolt pistol you charge so you get an extra two attacks for those two rules and then add +D6.

Remember that all Daemon Weapons are now 2-handed, meaning that you never get a bonus for two weapons while using it. Also, most Lords (including the special characters) now have a base Attack lower than before (they now have the same as DA generic Masters).

UltimateNagash
25-08-2007, 19:41
Actually, he's gained -more- attacks. Read the 3.5 Codex. Before Manreaper only did the +D6 attacks against more than one model...being a Daemon weapon now...well, it's ALWAYS +D6 attacks, regardless of whether it's one model or twenty. That seems an improvement to me. Then add in Feel No Pain and the fact it(Manreaper) is now a Force Weapon makes Typhus into a pretty solid all rounder for me.

I'd give him the 8/10 to be honest. He's actually got more attacks overall than before and has gained some nice quirks he didn't have before.
No more Nurglings?

But Fearless is almost the only thing better about him. He's almost 50% more expensive than in the previous codex, but does have a Statline better tyhan his previous average. The enhanced Warriors are (arguably) not as good either. The average roll now gets you fearless, but not the improved Initiative. "Berserk Rage" is slightly better since it adds Fearless, but "Created a Monster" now removes troops during the game rather than afterwards. It does however give you the possibility of a S10 Powerfist without Furious Charge.

Overall, perhaps a slight improvement overall, but it hardly justifies the extra points in my opinion. I think 9/10 is being very generous here.
Well, lets check him against what he had before. He always has better Attacks, has decent every other stat, and his Strength is decent...
Anyway, my opinion, so yeah...

Id give him an 8. He is able to deal with anything that can come at him and has a 4++. Stuck in close combat you have 3 attacks in the shooting phase to make some spawn. Ld 10 for psychic tests is not bad. His staff is now a force weapon instead of just a close combat weapon and his bolt pistol has AP3 bullets. Warptime, doombolt, doombolt. I see lots of dead marines :).
Well, yeah there is that, except he can't repeat powers...

Reaver83
25-08-2007, 19:47
i'm loving kharn, now he fits very thematically with my force, but he's most vehicles nightmare, and also the enemy troops, and in fact your own... practically everyones nightmare

Raven1
25-08-2007, 19:59
They all have less attacks, and they are two handed well nuts! I suppose I'll take the slaanesh demon weapon a whirl. It does the whole instant kill without havein to roll like a force weapon. Atleast that is what I heard. Ill still have a higher Init. and more or less the power to decimate squads. You can just see the potential. A Chaos loard all slaaneshed out just kill ourtright a Space Marine commad squad. That would be cool. :cheese:


now have a base Attack lower than before (they now have the same as DA generic Masters).

what is this codex: DA renegades. where's cypher?

Carlos
25-08-2007, 20:02
Although I dont play as chaos (my main nemesis does) I intend to enforce a house rule of abaddon not losing all his A and having to make an inv save to avoid a wound on rolling a 1 for his daemon weapon attacks.

It is mentioned in ALL past chaos literature he has mastery over drach'nyen. And I know I made my life a hell of a lot worse....

DarkstarSabre
25-08-2007, 22:30
No more Nurglings?

The Nurglings were never what you took Typhus for. In fact, most of the time those damn Nurglings did -nothing- due to striking at a lower initiative than the character himself who normally killed any sort of numbers around him. The nurglings were just a point sink on a special character.




Well, yeah there is that, except he can't repeat powers...

Actually, he can. The ruling is that normally you cannot attempt to use more than one power that counts as firing a weapon in a turn. Ahriman can. So he can run around going Warptime, Doombolt, Doombolt.

Or if he really wanted to be mean... Doombolt, Doombolt, Doombolt!

DarkstarSabre
25-08-2007, 22:32
Although I dont play as chaos (my main nemesis does) I intend to enforce a house rule of abaddon not losing all his A and having to make an inv save to avoid a wound on rolling a 1 for his daemon weapon attacks.

Actually, with the daemon weapon you still have an Invulnerable save against it. It only ignores armour saves, not all saves altogether. So you still can make your invulnerable save.

Bassik
25-08-2007, 22:49
On a sidenote, I think Daemonweapons are realy worth it. More reliable then rapid firing plasma guns!
You have just as much chance to get +6 attacks as you have to get a wound with no attacks at all.
Deffinetly worth it for a mere 40 points ^^ And dont forget the extra bonus. Even +1 strenght works for me!

(btw, yes, I allways rapid fire with plasmaguns. They might go boom... but when they don't.. oh boy!:D I like the gamble ellement:D.)

UltimateNagash
25-08-2007, 23:06
Actually, he can. The ruling is that normally you cannot attempt to use more than one power that counts as firing a weapon in a turn. Ahriman can. So he can run around going Warptime, Doombolt, Doombolt.

Or if he really wanted to be mean... Doombolt, Doombolt, Doombolt!
Well, I wouldn't play it like that... And if you want tank hunting, BoC, BoC, BoC?

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
25-08-2007, 23:17
On a sidenote, I think Daemonweapons are realy worth it. More reliable then rapid firing plasma guns!
You have just as much chance to get +6 attacks as you have to get a wound with no attacks at all.
Deffinetly worth it for a mere 40 points ^^ And dont forget the extra bonus. Even +1 strenght works for me!

(btw, yes, I allways rapid fire with plasmaguns. They might go boom... but when they don't.. oh boy!:D I like the gamble ellement:D.)

more dices mean more reliability - if every thing rely on one roll there is another story

edit:i like plasma too!

scarvet
25-08-2007, 23:30
All on the same tank? are you trying to kill a Landraider? or a Falcon?

I am glad that special characters are now competitive with custom character, in 3.5 they are just flavors...
Now they got more attack & extra protection, making them more desirable. Especially the terminator ones( wait, that's only Abbandon & Typhus lol), which can deep strike in( they can do this before, but now the only Lord with terminator armour have 2+ save.)
Ahriman got better as well, as mention before, he now weld a force weapon, and chaos psychic power got some improvement. Too bad he deosn't "steal" psychic power any more( yes, lash.)

Brian888
30-08-2007, 14:52
You're kidding me. They've FINALLY made the Staff of Ahriman a power weapon?!? I never thought I'd see the day.