PDA

View Full Version : FoC limited by points?



Tulun
26-08-2007, 00:12
Out of curiousity, does anyone think that the FoC should be changed / limited by points of the game?

In a recent thread, Gav Thorpe stated that the game was balanced at 1500-2000, but if you commonly play smaller games (1000, time constraints), should the FoC change to reflect part of the imbalances?

I was thinking that at games under 1500, the FoC for a standard game could look like this:

1 HQ (mandatory HQ).
2-6 troops
0-2 Elites
0-2 Fast Attack
0-1 Heavy Support.

For certain armies (like Space Wolves) that have special FoC needs built into their rules, they could add what they are required to do without issue.

This just came to me to shift the balance in smaller games to more on troops. In bigger engagements, the normal lists are possible, but 'supposedly' at this 1500-2000 point, the lists are all in equilibrium anyway.

It's not Fantasy type of army building, but it reflects that perhaps 3 heavies in a 1000 point game perhaps isn't balanced; just like more than 1 rare isn't ;)

Thoughts?

Hulkster
26-08-2007, 00:26
sorry i have to disagree

i think the FOC is great for 1000-3000pts

balancing is not really affected

now at 500pts i would use combat patrol rules sometimes, but other than that it is fine

I used to play 2 FOC for 3000pts but with the release of apoc that is no longer needed

you made some good points, but im afraid i have to disagree

warchild9
26-08-2007, 00:32
I think it is fine the way it is currently I ahve about 3500 in sisters of battle plus 4000 in crimson fists but like hulkster I would have to field 2 Foc not any more in Apocalypse

Gensuke626
26-08-2007, 00:37
I can see where you're going with this idea, but I don't think that Heavies should be hit so hard...maybe a decrease of 1 across the board (so that even the amount of Troops is affected.)

Lord Malek The Red Knight
26-08-2007, 00:40
I was thinking that at games under 1500, the FoC for a standard game could look like this:

1 HQ (mandatory HQ).
2-6 troops
0-2 Elites
0-2 Fast Attack
0-1 Heavy Support.

Thoughts?
the problem with anything that restricts the FOC (or rewards/penalises players based on the slots they use), is that it affects different armies differently.

Space Marines, for example, have solid, versatile Troop choices, where as other armies rely on other slots to do the killing for them while their Troops just bulk up the force (to an extent).

instead of having general arbitrary FOC limits (beyond those that GW set), i would rather have limits set per unit (ideally by GW). each army could have a table listing each unit, with a collumn for each points level, telling you how many of a unit GW suggests you do not excede. this allows things to be tailored far better than setting the same limits on the FOC for everyone, IMO.

how's that sound?

~ Tim

Tulun
26-08-2007, 01:02
the problem with anything that restricts the FOC (or rewards/penalises players based on the slots they use), is that it affects different armies differently.

Space Marines, for example, have solid, versatile Troop choices, where as other armies rely on other slots to do the killing for them while their Troops just bulk up the force (to an extent).

instead of having general arbitrary FOC limits (beyond those that GW set), i would rather have limits set per unit (ideally by GW). each army could have a table listing each unit, with a collumn for each points level, telling you how many of a unit GW suggests you do not excede. this allows things to be tailored far better than setting the same limits on the FOC for everyone, IMO.

how's that sound?

~ Tim


I agree that some troops are better than others; Tactical Marines definitely come to mind. But, most army troops can generally fill a decent roll; it's just in this mind set, you can't rely on heavies to do all your work at lower points (which is part of the idea). The normal FoC at 1500-2000 is apparently balanced, according to their system; it just stands to reason it might not be necessarily balanced at points beyond or below that value, from the GW own statement.

Your idea, meaning like you can have 1 unit of Assault Marines (for example) per 500 points type deal? That could work, though I think people might dislike it; but it works in Fantasy very well...

scarvet
26-08-2007, 01:09
I vote yes, but every army may vary for what they have have (i.e. IG, Ork will have more elite, Tau, SM & Eldar have more FA etc). I also would like to see addition slot so that People can have tournament for larger games.

House rule FTW ;)

Lord Malek The Red Knight
26-08-2007, 01:12
Your idea, meaning like you can have 1 unit of Assault Marines (for example) per 500 points type deal? That could work, though I think people might dislike it; but it works in Fantasy very well...
something like that, yeah - the main point though is that while Assault Marines might be limited to 1 squad per 500 pts, Scout Bikers (for example) could have a different limit (say, 1 squad per 400 pts), even though they are both Fast Attack choices for the same army.

the Necron Monolith might be limited to 0 up to 749 pts, 1 @750+ pts, 2 @ 1250+ pts etc, while a Tomb Spyder could have no special limit at all, even though they are both Heavy Support choices.

the point im trying to make really is that its not so much which FOC slots you fill, but what you fill them with that matters.

cheers :)

~ Tim
p.s. limits suggested in my post above are just imaginary ones off the top of my head to illustrate the point :p

Tulun
26-08-2007, 01:17
something like that, yeah - the main point though is that while Assault Marines might be limited to 1 squad per 500 pts, Scout Bikers (for example) could have a different limit (say, 1 squad per 400 pts), even though they are both Fast Attack choices for the same army.

the Necron Monolith might be limited to 0 up to 749 pts, 1 @750+ pts, 2 @ 1250+ pts etc, while a Tomb Spyder could have no special limit at all, even though they are both Heavy Support choices.

the point im trying to make really is that its not so much which FOC slots you fill, but what you fill them with that matters.

cheers :)

~ Tim
p.s. limits suggested in my post above are just imaginary ones off the top of my head to illustrate the point :p

It's an interesting idea, though it may be difficult to determine what's fair (though that's GW's job). And many may cry they should be able to field 3 Leman Russ / Falcons / Fexes / jesus on wheels in 1500 if they want.

It does acknowledge the fact that Vibrocannons (and other platforms) for example aren't necessarily equal to say, a Falcon or Fire Prism; doubling up on Falcons is likely far more deadly than doubling up on Vibrocannons for the same slot.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
26-08-2007, 01:25
It's an interesting idea, though it may be difficult to determine what's fair (though that's GW's job). And many may cry they should be able to field 3 Leman Russ / Falcons / Fexes / jesus on wheels in 1500 if they want.
well the codex and standard FOC are (supposedly) balanced at 1500 pts, so there wouldnt be any special limit at that level anyway. plus lower points levels will naturally limit expensive units, and the Combat Patrol rules exclude certain units at 400pts too.

while i agree that it is GWs job to set such limits (they set the points costs etc anyway), there wouldnt be anything stopping opponents/event organisers deciding the limits themselves too.


It does acknowledge the fact that Vibrocannons (and other platforms) for example aren't necessarily equal to say, a Falcon or Fire Prism; doubling up on Falcons is likely far more deadly than doubling up on Vibrocannons for the same slot.
exactly. :)

~Tim