PDA

View Full Version : Allies heed my call .....or not?



srgt. gak
27-08-2007, 18:22
I've been playing 40k for almost a year now, and have enlarged my IG army up to almost 1,500 points. On several occasions i have over heard other gamers refer to some of their units as "allies". Until a week ago I never thought much of it, but viewing a battle report on www.bluetablepainting.com I had never noticed that allies may be from diffrent army lists. I've searched the 40k rulebook, the online sites , and forge world and have found no meantion of these allies. So my question is where can i find these rules and if they exsist can i mix armies like IGs and SM. Please help me im very confused

Green Shoes
27-08-2007, 18:34
There are special Allies rules in the Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters codecies. AFAIK those are the only two armies that can be allied with IG without a seperate FOC.

Feor
27-08-2007, 19:51
Also Kroot mercenaries, I believe, though they're a little less official.

Spacker
28-08-2007, 04:29
And Deathwatch :)

Also, the term "allies" is sometimes used in reference to the Multiple Detachments rule from the rulebook, which allows multiple FOCs to be used in larger games with your opponents agreement. While some believe this still restricts you to using the same codex, others are happy to allow a different codex to be used for each FOC if wanted.

xibo
28-08-2007, 12:16
Lost and Damned can team up with CSM ( although not the other way ), and whoever wants can team up with LatD IFF he's fighting Adeptus Soritas ( or was it all WH? See somewhere at the end of the WH Codex ).
If you take Cypher or Gaunt you may take a generic unit from the CSM codex or an arbitary amount of Tanith Ghosts respectively IIRC ( thereby bypass the doctrine restrictions if you choosed to play something different than tanith )

srgt. gak
28-08-2007, 13:32
Thanks a lot for the info people. I'll asume now that its okay to have vahallans and cadians but not cadians and space marines.

Spacker
28-08-2007, 13:40
Valhallans and Cadians are just types of Imperial Guard - mixing the figures isn't a problem, but you won't be able to mix the units in a single army if you're using doctrines because they each have different doctrine selections.

The only way to get SM and IG in the same army is to use the Deathwatch or Grey Knights in an IG army, use Inducted IG in a Daemonhunters army (where you can mix Grey Knights from the DH codex with a variety of IG units), or bring in Stormtroopers from the Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters codex (technically Inquisitorial units, but they have the same stats as IG Stormtroopers).

Culven
28-08-2007, 13:52
Thanks a lot for the info people. I'll asume now that its okay to have vahallans and cadians but not cadians and space marines.
That depends. In this situation, you are not using allies, you are simply mixing models in an Imperial Guard army. While you may freely mix Cadian and Valhallan models in an army, you will still be required to follow the normal IG rules. This means that you may not have more than 5 Doctrines in the army, unless you are using the Doctrines from one of the Regiments for the entire army. That is to say, you could use the Valhallan Doctrines for the entire army, and use some Cadian models (you could even call them Cadian units), but they cannot use any Doctrines other than those in the Valhallen entry.

srgt. gak
28-08-2007, 14:49
So u are saying that i can use models of the diffrentcodex with others without having to use both sides doctrines but cant mix units together as long as there are dmembers of the deathwatch or inqusistion amoung them? Speaking of deathwatch where can u find rules on them?

Culven
28-08-2007, 15:25
So you are saying that i can use models of the diffrent codex with others without having to use both sides' doctrines, but can't mix units together as long as there are members of the deathwatch or inquistion among them?
I'm not sure that is what I was saying. You may mix IG models within an IG army. You may not mix the doctrines from different Regiments of Renown, unless you do not exceed five doctrines, just like in an normal IG army. Having Deathwatch or Inquisition units in your army (which would be Allied units) doesn't change the fact that one may not mix units together (ex., one could not add Space Marines to an Inquisitor's Retinue).

Remember, there is a difference between mixing models and mixing units. Units are defined by the codex, models are used to represent units.


Speaking of deathwatch, where can you find rules on them?
The rules for the Deathwatch can be found here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/deathwatch/1/).

Feor
28-08-2007, 16:13
You can use whatever models you want to represent your guard, as long as you're fairly consistent. So you can do one squad with Cadian models, one squad with Valhallan models, and a Mordian command squad, and call it a platoon. However, you may only use the Mordian Doctrines, the Cadian Doctrines, the Valhallan Doctrines, no Doctrines OR your own set of 5 doctrines for the whole army, no mixing and matching.

Then, on top of that you can add actual allied units to your army, including the above mentioned Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, Kroot, and Deathwatch.

Then, on top of THAT, you can add additional FOCs if your opponent will let you.

Also worthy of note: A Deathwatch Killteam can easily be modeled and painted as standard Space Marines and called veterans of Chapter X sent in to help the guard out.

srgt. gak
28-08-2007, 18:48
So i can have some marines units, painted as imperial fists and call them vetreans of the imperial fists coming to aide the cadians?If so can i have more than one unit like a unit of tactical marines and a unit of termies or machines ( land speeders, bikers, or rinos ) added to the foc of my cadians as allies?

Finn
28-08-2007, 19:25
You need to read the relevant allies rules. Unless it says that you can do something, you can't do it. So unless it says you can take a SM Dread with IG, you can't do it. For the record, there's no way to bring in allied SM units to an IG force, aside from Deathwatch and Grey Knights (which in truth are part of the Daemonhunters codex, in which case you're using allied Daemonhunters that just so happen to be an SM unit...). You are limited to up to 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack, and no Heavy Support when using either Witch or Daemon Hunters, that must be chosen from the respective codex. You cannot use units from both...in fact, I'm not sure you can use more than one set of allies.

Feor
29-08-2007, 12:41
You can have a single squad of Imperial Fists as allies, and call them "counts as" a Deathwatch Killteam. They get a few abilities Fists wouldn't usually, but that's why you call them Veterans.

Also, you can combine Witch Hunters, Daemonhunters, and Deathwatch, but only those three. The FAQ's clarified that They can only be allied with other inquisitorial forces.

Also, You don't neccissarily have to start a whole new army, apocalypse hits in a couple months, at which point you can combine your armies together regardless of FoC or Origins, though only for Apocalypse games.

Bunnahabhain
29-08-2007, 12:41
We've all assumed so far that you're dealing with loyalist guard, rather than a regiment that's been infiltrated by Genesteraler or chaos cults, or even seduced by the greater good. There are rules about for at least some of those....

ssgtdude
29-08-2007, 12:41
Just to add some more confusion into the mix. In larger games allies is also a term used when an army is teamed up with someone else's army on the field.

The above is correct that the witchhunters and Daemonhunter codex's have the official rules on how to include allies in one army list. The team games is when you are combining your army with someone else's army, and possibly a third persons as well.

srgt. gak
29-08-2007, 12:41
hmmm. well that little info could have saved me some money. My friend lead me to believe i could have several units as allies> and i bought some marines and painted them as imperial fists> oh well its an excuss to build another army

srgt. gak
29-08-2007, 22:23
So i can have space marines and imperial guardsmen join together like a crusade force for apocalypse? That will make things really cool so i could have to armies for regular 40k and then combine them for apocalypse. Which by the way looks to be realy cool. I cant wait for the commissars to come out that one chanting looks uber cool. I hope that since theyre realesing the imperial city again, that theyll reduce the price, i mean that things expensive. and yes Im playing loyal guard cause nothing choas is cool. Chaos is the cheese. Thanks again.