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levinas
04-09-2007, 16:55
Hi - I've got a hankering to start playing epic and will need to get two armies painted up to get my potential opponent to the table so I'm hoping someone with some experience of the game can help me with a couple of questions:

1) What is the smallest size of game that is fun to play? (is there a 'normal' size people usually go for)

2) Will Orcs V Imperial Guard be an entertaining pairing (by which I mean reasonably matched and taking part in most phases of the game)?

3) Can anyone suggest a decent list for either army (based on whatever size game people think is fun)? For the guard one I've got a preferance for something largely tank based.

4) Are the Forgeworld miniatures sturdy enough to play with or am I better going with the metal GW ones?

Cheers

Sojourner
04-09-2007, 17:47
Whereabouts are you from, just out of curiosity? I'm also considering starting Epic, and it'd be nice to have somebody to play against...

I know one thing, in Epic 40,000 Orks vs. Guard always used to be a slugfest, since both had hordes of troops and both were pretty liberal with big guns. Highlights tended to be Kults of Speed being annihilated by IG artillery.

Hopefully, this is still the case.

Dwarf Supreme
04-09-2007, 17:49
Hi,

Welcome to Epic.

1. The tournament army lists are balanced for 2000-5000 point games, with 3000 being common. I've played a couple of 2100 point games that were fun. If you're still in the learning phase, I would keep it smaller.

2. Orks vs IG should be a good game. Those two armies are probably the best for newer players to use while learning.

3. The army lists for Orks and IG in the rulebook are quite sufficient. For your first few games, I would shy away from War Engines, aircraft and aerospace operations until you have a pretty good feel for the game. Then add them in for future games. I won't recommend specific units to take, because I feel it's usually better to try all of the units and see how you like them snd how they fit your playing style. One suggestion I will make, though, is for IG: always take a Supreme Commander. In my experience the re-roll the SC provides can be crucial for IG.

4. I personally haven't played with FW minis, but I have heard people complain that the infantry are a tad on the fragile side.

Hope that helps!

Hena
04-09-2007, 18:16
1. 1500 and 2000 are quite ok to start with, especially with air and warengines left out. 3000 is the normal size (like 1500 in 40k).

4. Forges tanks are quite ok. I have several for IG and they are all fine. Superheavies tend to have quite a lot of flash, but nothing too impossible to clean. And they are cheaper than SG variants in most cases :). Airplanes are bigger so using both SG and FW airplanes can cause ... interesting look to say the least.

Lord Inquisitor
04-09-2007, 18:37
1) What is the smallest size of game that is fun to play? (is there a 'normal' size people usually go for)
1,000 points is okay for a "warm up" type game - or try out some of the training scenarios from the rulebook. I would recommend go for a few really small games like this to get the hang of things. For a "proper" game, somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000.


2) Will Orcs V Imperial Guard be an entertaining pairing (by which I mean reasonably matched and taking part in most phases of the game)?
Oh yeah. You're guaranteed a good scrap with lots of dice rolling!


3) Can anyone suggest a decent list for either army (based on whatever size game people think is fun)? For the guard one I've got a preferance for something largely tank based.
I would perhaps stay away from War Engines and Aerospace units for the first few games. You can just concentrate on section 1.0 and 2.0 that way.


4) Are the Forgeworld miniatures sturdy enough to play with or am I better going with the metal GW ones?
The tanks should be fine. The infantry can be fiddly, and the Grey Knights do break a lot in my experience (like: they didn't even all get to me in one piece!). That said, if they break, they're very easy to fix - superglue holds such tiny pieces very well.

The forgeworld models are much, much nicer than the SG variants, and sometimes cheaper too.

DaR
04-09-2007, 19:39
I'll echo the FW comments. Infantry can be very fiddly, but the vehicles are pretty solid. My Tau Devilfish and Hammerheads are fine (except a few antenna bits), but I've had a number of infantry break off, especially at the ankles. The battlesuits are the worst, as there's one particular pose that's only attached on one foot to begin with, with those tiny scrawny battlesuit chicken legs and all of them are covered in hair-fine antennas and weapons.

-DaR

levinas
04-09-2007, 21:09
Thanks for the replies, Orks and Guard it is, the battle for Armageddon is on! I think I'll try and draw up a couple of 1000, 1500 and 2000 point army lists and see what they look like. When they're done I'll post them here.

Out of interest, in a 2000 pt list what proportion would normally be taken up by aircraft? I've got a nice painted fleet for AI that would double up nicely.

Lord Inquisitor
04-09-2007, 21:13
For most lists, the maximum you are allowed to spend on titans and aircraft is 1/3 of the total points value. Spending more than about 500 points on aircraft in 2,000 points would be unusual, in my mind.

levinas
04-09-2007, 21:34
Thanks. I guess I'm really looking for an excuse to buy myself some ork planes for AI!

Oh, and Soujourner, I'm in the UK, near Manchester. It'll be a while before I'm playing (I've got to finish and sell my Vampire Counts - one unit to go! - before I can get the order placed with GWMO and Forgeworld). But I'll be looking for opponents when the first army is ready. I think I might try to get something ready for whenever the 2008 UK tournament is on (I take it there is such a thing?). That'd give me a deadline to work to...

Chaos and Evil
05-09-2007, 01:44
There were 8 Epic tournaments in the UK this year I believe.

firestorm40k
05-09-2007, 04:47
There were 8 Epic tournaments in the UK this year I believe.

Indeed, the Epic tourney scene is very active, served by a core of very dedicated players. I think this year there were more than most years - which is typical, now I've moved to France... :rolleyes:

Anyway, welcome to Epic & the Epic community, be sure to go register at Tactical Command (http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi), the forum for discussing Epic rules, background, and painting Epic minis! :) :cool:

Hena
05-09-2007, 15:27
You can find some tournament lists for Orks on my tournament pages (I try to log all lists into net that are used in the tournaments). It should give some indication on the amount of aircrafts used in E:A games here.

http://iki.fi/hena/gw/tournament

levinas
05-09-2007, 17:58
@Hena, thanks for that link, that's just the thing I need to get some preliminary lists sorted.

levinas
06-09-2007, 08:04
After a brief look at the IG army lists I've come up with this:

Regimental HQ 500
Tank Company 650
Super-Heavy Tank Company (2 Baneblade, 1 Shadowsword) 500
Storm Trooper Platoon (with Valkyries) 350

Does that sound like a viable force?

Ah, and another question. Is the current rulebook identical to the PDFs online or are they more up to date (like the Blood Bowl ones). If they're the same I'd prefer a real book to the print out I now have.

Thanks - L

Bombot
06-09-2007, 09:18
You will probably need more activations (i.e. individual formations) than that and a little air defence would be nice. The Baneblades are the weak link in that force - they don' t do anything the Leman Russes can't do.

I'd do this:

Lose the Baneblades (you can keep a single Shadowsword) -300

Add:
Manticore battery (I find artillery very useful - it's emergency support for weak links in your battle line, or it just flattens things) 250

Hydra for the HQ 50

Anyway, I'd start with something like that as it gives you a flavour of the IG's good stuff. They don't really need aircraft, having good artillery, but some people like to use Thunderbolts.

Chaos and Evil
06-09-2007, 16:28
I always take at least one infantry company when playing IG... they're cheap, and can hold ground if you take advantage of cover.

Mouldsta
06-09-2007, 23:46
You want about 2.5 - 3 activations per thousand points. For 2k I'd (personally) take;

Regimental HQ, (500)
Mech Infantry, Hydra (450)
Mech Infantry, Hydra (450)
Shadowsword (200)
Shadowsword (200)
Shadowsword (200)

That gives you a decent ammount of activations, loads of firepower, reasonable AA, decent mobility and the ability to hold objectives. It also gives a viscious firefight, and the ability to pop tanks with ease 90cm away.

levinas
07-09-2007, 05:56
That's two votes for more infantry then... And everyone votes for more activations. I'll have a better look at the rulebook and have a rethink. But I'd like to stick with the tank company if I can as I quite like the miniatures.

Bombot
07-09-2007, 08:09
I could easily change my artillery recommendation to a basic IG infantry company to use as a garrison. The Stormtroopers and HQ can be used to capture objectives.

Hena
07-09-2007, 16:34
Me, I'd say make a list and try it out :). There is always too many people saying what should be taken, when most other systems work as well. Then again my idea is to buy everything once and then try them on field and buy more that I liked :D.

tabletopnews
07-09-2007, 16:43
Me, I'd say make a list and try it out :). There is always too many people saying what should be taken, when most other systems work as well.

True words. Army list construction depends on how you play as well. Grab some minis, build a list and play it a few times to see what you like and didn't like.

levinas
07-09-2007, 20:58
@tabletopnews, you're right of course but I'll take onboard any advice I can get! I'll have a better read through the rules over the weekend and will repost my list with more 'activations', less Baneblades and maybe another set of infantry but the idea of painting them all makes me want to cry...

Mouldsta
07-09-2007, 23:33
Drybrush is your friend. Either that or spend 8 hours on one stand like this;
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/Mouldsta/Warboss.jpg
(this was taken before basing and touching up the dags - I hate painting squares.)

robertsjf
08-09-2007, 01:24
Either that or spend 8 hours on one stand like this;

You're not well, friend. Talented, but not well....

levinas
08-09-2007, 07:22
Now you've made it worse, setting that standard to aim for is just cruel!

Mouldsta
08-09-2007, 13:14
Bear in mind that is my command stand, I didn't take anywhere near as long on any of the others. Also I'd advise against doing it really detailed; no-one will notice it at all which will make you upset

iFelix
08-09-2007, 13:21
If you are looking for some painting guides for Epic miniatures I have a few on my website.

http://www.ifelix.co.uk/jimbo_epic00.html

Cheers

iFelix

levinas
08-09-2007, 15:14
Thanks iFelix, I've just had some fun looking over your site - there's some helpful stuff there. For now it's painting Grave Guard before I'm allowing myself a GWMO order for 'part one' of the imperial forces. Part two (all of the vehicles apart from the Leman Russ tanks which they don't seem to make) will come from Forgeworld once the first lot are painted. Hopefully I'll have the GG finished for next week, at which point I'll probably start a painting log for the epic army.

Hena
08-09-2007, 15:45
For pictures of other people armies, I suggest to go through Tactical Commands 6mm paiting section. There are several IG armies there.

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=SF;f=7

Chaos and Evil
09-09-2007, 12:31
Hey levinas, where are you located?

You may be near an Epic-playing group ya know.

robertsjf
09-09-2007, 15:58
You may be near an Epic-playing group ya know.

How would one find out?

levinas
09-09-2007, 17:15
I'm in Marple (nr Manchester). Am I near any epic players? Once the army is ready I'll definately be looking for someone to show me the flaws in designing an army around the toys that I like the look of!

Chaos and Evil
09-09-2007, 18:14
The best way is probably to ask on the forum linked-to in my signiture.

levinas
09-09-2007, 19:15
Thanks for the link. I've just joined up (same forum name) and will enjoy looking around.