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scratchbuilt
30-10-2007, 19:49
Does epic have balance issues like 40k?

Hena
30-10-2007, 20:04
Depends. If you use only official lists, then they have a lot less balance problems than 40k. There is few things, but nothing too obvious.

If you start using experimental lists, then there are.

scratchbuilt
30-10-2007, 22:20
What are they - how warping are they?

Pity, the lists I'm interested in are all experimental lists. Hmmm

Chaos and Evil
30-10-2007, 23:55
Which lists are you interested in?

Perhaps we can club together and give you some honest answers?

J0ker
31-10-2007, 12:46
I think it would be fair to say that the Swordwind lists are generally considered less balanced than the 3 core lists, particularly Seige masters and Eldar.

Chaos and Evil
31-10-2007, 12:53
But still more balanced against the other armies than a decent chunk of 40k! :D

There are no auto-win army compositions that play the game for themselves in Epic, unlike 40k which has quite a few...

orangesm
31-10-2007, 14:05
There are some thigns that people think are 'broken' like an all SM Thunderhawk force that uses the Thunderhawks to claim objectives. But this one can fall apart if someone brings AA and something to kill War Engines.

Like everyone has been saying there is no auto-win list and if you are interested in the test list you become one of the playtesters. You can help to balance the list out and give you input to it.

J0ker
31-10-2007, 15:15
But still more balanced against the other armies than a decent chunk of 40k!

There are no auto-win army compositions that play the game for themselves in Epic, unlike 40k which has quite a few...

Well, unless you count my deathstrike regiment (0-1 you say? Nah, you've got the nought and the one the wrong way round mate :D :D )

But yes, from my limited 40k experience that is very true. There really is no auto win army in epic and with sensible army selection you should be able to go up against anything. One of the big differences is the alternating activation sequence which removes the potential for wiping out the opposing army before they get a chance to respond. And Marines play like special forces rather than walking dethbots from the planet zerg.

Moscovian
31-10-2007, 19:56
The great thing about Epic is that even though there are lists that have balance issues, there is a tremendously active community (at least from my take from participating at Specialist Games forum and Tactical Command) that strives to achieve balance. And even as a casual player you can still provide great input for helping improve things just by posting details of your game online.

What 40K armies do you think you want to tinker with in Epic?

scratchbuilt
31-10-2007, 20:25
I was interested in the Adeptus Mechanicus list. But made chaos - no rule changes though, just fluff and colors. Failing that the steel legion.

The supression/ barrage rules seem a handful to remember but makes combat realistic, and is the main reason I'm switching. (Truth be told, I still prefer the 40k models).

Chaos and Evil
31-10-2007, 23:48
I was interested in the Adeptus Mechanicus list. But made chaos - no rule changes though, just Fluff and colors.

The Adeptus Mechanicus list has varied opinions of it, but on the whole I'd say opinion is split equally as to whether it is over or underpowered... which maybe makes it balanced! :D

Your idea of doing a Chaotic Adeptus Mechanicus army in Epic scale sound awesome.

One thing though... the Adeptus Mechanicus army isn't an army I'd recommend to a starting player as it's a bit specialised (You'll learn how to operate Titans really well on the battlefield, but you'll not learn how to operate infantry all that much, or tanks...). So if you're just learning the system, I'd think about a different army first.


Failing that the steel legion.

Universally regarded as the second most balanced list in Epic (Orks are the most balanced of all).

You could do a Mechanicus-themed Steel Legion list actually, and then gradually introduce more Titans into your games until you migrate to the Adeptus Mechanicus army list... perhaps. :)


The supression/ barrage rules seem a handful to remember but makes combat realistic, and is the main reason I'm switching.

Surpression is intuitive and easy to see, because it uses the fantastic Blast Marker leadership system... and yes, it is more realistic. (If 40k is a cartoony wargame, then Epic is its simulation-style brother).


(Truth be told, I still prefer the 40K models).

Quite true!

A game of Apocalypse will always look more eye-popping than a game of Epic... but a game of Epic will play better than a game of Apocalypse (If you're after a balanced simulation-style wargame that is).

Both games have merit, depending on what you're after.

Jow
01-11-2007, 19:50
Most of the lists not in the main rulebook are fairly unpopular in my area to play against. I've actually rewritten a few of them because I hate them so much. There are also a few rules in the rule book(as written in it) that either are not fun to play RAW(at all) or unclear.

Epic has its problems, but its a good game. Just don't expect any of the broken rules to get changed by any "rules committee" in your lifetime.

Hena
01-11-2007, 21:35
Most of the lists not in the main rulebook are fairly unpopular in my area to play against. I've actually rewritten a few of them because I hate them so much.
I'd be interested in seeing these. Would perhaps help the Tau conversation as well :).

J0ker
01-11-2007, 22:53
Epic has its problems, but its a good game. Just don't expect any of the broken rules to get changed by any "rules committee" in your lifetime.

Who needs them I say, what with the Epic handbook at tac command being worked on and Net:EA on the horizon the future is looking bright for epic.

Chaos and Evil
02-11-2007, 00:35
Aye, the centre of the Epic playing world is found in the Tactical Command link in my .sig.

Jow
19-11-2007, 14:06
I'd be interested in seeing these. Would perhaps help the Tau conversation as well :).

Hate to be a thread necromancer, but...lol.

I'll try and get my stuff together and post it up here. One of my main goals, which I know conflicts with most of the AC and such, is that there should be ZERO special rules in ANY list that desn't appear in the main rulebook. I'd also prefer to stick with most of the main design points, which is one of the reasons why I'm so against the Tau getting a shooting attack with Pulse Rifles.

Moscovian
27-11-2007, 16:34
I think having no special rules that exist outside of the main rulebook is an unreasonable expectation. There are too many facets to the armies out there to make them fall into those core special rules. Ex. Daemon summoning for Chaos. Obviously you are not going to find it in the core rules but you NEED it for Chaos. You need something anyway...

Tyranids, Necrons, Tau, CWEldar, Dark Eldar, Inquisition, etc. All are going to have their 'personalities'. Heck, even the core armies all have specialized rules. Commissars for the IG, Mob rules for the Orks, They Shall Know No Fear for SMs, four special rules for the Eldar. Those special rules are specific to the lists and are not listed in the Special Rules section.

The trick is to have a minimal amount of special rules for the lists and to have each one of them justifiable and easy to understand. Tau are understandably confusing with the number of special rules. Cybershadow openly acknowledges there are too many and there is an effort right now to reduce the amount.

Personally I am one of the Dark Eldar developers and we made a point of having a number of special rules equal to or less than the Eldar list. The ones that are there are easy to understand and in some cases duplicated from the Eldar list (Webway portals, Hit-n-run tactics). Here are two examples of two special rules that don't exist in the core rules but do exist in the Swordwind publication specific to the Eldar army.

FooFighter
06-12-2007, 01:28
Imbalances depend upon the Game System you are using - Titan Legions/Space Marine saw the Imperial Forces able to be royally messed up by opposition forces such as the Tyranids.

In this edition the Nids can regenerate their titans and larger creatures, effectively being immortal. The only problem comes when the enemy has an Imperator Titan - you need to hit it with some powerful ranged weapons as nothing in Close-Combat can hope to stand against it (unless you do a boarding action with Gargoyles + Harridan).

scratchbuilt
06-12-2007, 10:02
I didn't see rules for the imperator on the GW website

Chaos and Evil
06-12-2007, 10:39
The latest versions of the Tyranid army lists (Not the one found on the SG website) have toned down the power of Tyranids significantly.

Dwarf Supreme
06-12-2007, 16:41
I didn't see rules for the imperator on the GW website

There are rules for it in the collector's section of the rulebook, but I don't think they're online.