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McMullet
15-11-2007, 15:57
Quick question (really just a confirmation) on engagements for you Epic chaps: Am I right in thinking that it is impossible for normal troops (move of 10cm or less) to countercharge into base-to-base with enemy who are not contacting anyone?

The theory being...

Engaging troops cannot enter a zone of control unless contacting an enemy - therefore they cannot get within 5cm of an enemy.
Most infantry only coutercharge 5cm - therefore they can't get into base to base contact.

Seems pretty obvious when I write it out like that, but it came up in a game last night where some terminators were barely out of range to get into base to base, but were going to get contacted when my Orks countercharged. Then we rethought it and realised they had to stop 5cm away... maybe.

Apologies if I'm asking (another) silly question and thank you for your time. :)

EDIT: Sorry, found the bit on the Epic/Specialist Games forum FAQ.
http://forum.specialist-games.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7405 - Section 1.12.3

I think that about clears it up.

Hena
15-11-2007, 16:32
On engage the enemy can enter on Zone of Control. If they do, they must try to reach the enemy in base-to-base contact. However if the move is not enough, enemy can be within Zone of Control but not in base-to-base. So Orks could in fact counter charge into them. Following is from Master FAQ
http://forum.specialist-games.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7405


1.12.3 Make Charge Move
How should we interpret section 1.12.3 when it says "Remember that a charging unit that enters a zone of control must move into base contact with the nearest enemy whose zone of control has been entered"?
A: The intent of the rule is that if you enter a ZOC, then you must attempt to move into base contact with the nearest enemy unit whose ZOC you have entered. If you start a move in a ZOC, you can either move into contact with the closest enemy unit, or exit the ZOC by the shortest possible route.

If a unit does not have enough movement to make it into base contact it still moves as much as possible towards the closest unit. The intent of the rule is that you should not be able to charge through a ZOC to reach a unit further away but should alwayss move towards the closest enemy unit even if you cannot make it into base contact.

McMullet
15-11-2007, 16:33
Whoops, I found that about 30 seconds before you posted it seems... :D

Thanks for the reply anyway!

Patriarch
15-11-2007, 17:22
Not sure the FAQ is too clear. You can countercharge your troops as far as possible each "round" of the assault, until they have to stop 5cm away at the enemy ZoC. On the following round (if there is one) they can then countercharge the remaining 5cm into base contact. So it's not impossible, in fact it takes the same number of rounds as it it would if ZoC did not apply.

2 things to bear in mind:
There is not much chance of multiple rounds in an assault, as it only happens if you keep drawing the assault resolution dice-off. Also, as soon as a unit has been contacted in BTB it loses its ZOC.

Hena
15-11-2007, 18:28
You cannot enter into ZoC on normal orders and if that interpretation (that you cannot enter into ZoC unless you get to base-to-base contact) would be correct you could never counter charge into b-t-b. The reason for that is in the FAQ as well


1.7.3: Zones of Control
Can you end your move exactly 5cm away from an enemy unit, or would that mean entering its ZOC?
A: You must stay out of the ZOC. As the ZOC extends 5cm, if you were exactly 5cm you would be in the ZOC and this is not allowed. In other words, you must remain more than 5cm away from the enemy unit.

Idea is that the units can enter into ZoC under certain circumstances (such as engage or counter charge) irrespective whether their move is enough to move into b-t-b. But they must try to do so at shortest possible path.