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View Full Version : Dreadnought Formation!



Jow
19-11-2007, 14:27
Who here has added a dreadnought formation to their E:A Marines army? I always thought that the reasoning behind not including them(IE, they are too rare) was pretty thin. 4 Dreadnoughts is what each company would have according to the Marines codex(which is what my formation has in it). A company also has 4 stands worth of assault marines. We don't hesitate to have an assault marines formation, but they are every bit as "rare" as a group of dreadnoughts. Plus...dreadnoughts pretty much stink otherwise.

My formation is pretty simple: Its just 4 Dreadnoughts for 200 points with the options for drop pods and a commander(venerable dreadnoughts I guess).

I didn't just stop there though. I also gave them a multimelta option(for free) because I think its dumb that I can have a model for it but not use the rules for it.

McMullet
19-11-2007, 15:48
That's a pretty good idea actually... I think it would work nicely. The only reason I see for not including them is that they slow down formations with transports, which is obviously solved by using a separate Dread formation.

Hena
19-11-2007, 17:02
That has elated a lot of discussions in the Tactical Command and at least some in Specialist Games boards. Doing couple of searches for them would probably help. Some people want them but not all.

Personally, I think that it wouldn't help any as they are slow for Marines. Only way to use them is garrison or airdrop by Thunderhawk or Pods and in both situations they don't slow the Marines down any.

Jow
19-11-2007, 17:44
That has elated a lot of discussions in the Tactical Command and at least some in Specialist Games boards. Doing couple of searches for them would probably help. Some people want them but not all.

Personally, I think that it wouldn't help any as they are slow for Marines. Only way to use them is garrison or airdrop by Thunderhawk or Pods and in both situations they don't slow the Marines down any.

I know its been hashed out on the SG site. I doubt my idea is original. But I think those guys are <<bleep>> based on what they've done with the game in teh past, so I'll just leave their opinions out of this.

The argument of fluffy rarity is crap(their are more dread stands in a chapter than terminator stands or land raiders). Currently, their is zero reason to include a dread in a formation of ground marines because they'll get left behind the rhinos. Drop pods or thunderhawks fix this and I think give them a reason to be brought.

I also think if they were moved away from the infantry it might be a little harder to break the formation because it'll be an all AV formation instead of a mixed one.

Dwarf Supreme
19-11-2007, 20:22
I've always been in favor of a separate Dread formation, but I seem to be in the minority.

Chaos and Evil
19-11-2007, 21:44
I have an extensive article on Dreadnoughts in the next Firebase issue.

At the end of the article are two suggested house rules... A Dreadnought formation and a Multi-Melta Dreadnought...

Hena
20-11-2007, 04:08
The argument of fluffy rarity is crap(their are more dread stands in a chapter than terminator stands or land raiders). Currently, their is zero reason to include a dread in a formation of ground marines because they'll get left behind the rhinos. Drop pods or thunderhawks fix this and I think give them a reason to be brought.

I also think if they were moved away from the infantry it might be a little harder to break the formation because it'll be an all AV formation instead of a mixed one.
With only 4 units (and save 4+) they cannot withstand any fire. Also they move 15cm so you can't even use them similar to Predators which can use their speed to avoid most fire. You'd still be limited on deployment options same as before. So gamewise I don't think that it would help any. The way to compensate it to make them cheap formation, but that is way unfluffy (cheap and plentiful unit is not what I think dread is :)).

Patriarch
20-11-2007, 11:28
With only 4 units (and save 4+) they cannot withstand any fire. Also they move 15cm so you can't even use them similar to Predators which can use their speed to avoid most fire. You'd still be limited on deployment options same as before. So gamewise I don't think that it would help any. The way to compensate it to make them cheap formation, but that is way unfluffy (cheap and plentiful unit is not what I think dread is :)).

Agreed. My 2p...

Dreadnoughts should be fearless for fluff reasons. The pilot is almost as dead as a Wraithlord. And the clue is in the name "Dreadnought". Without it I think they are a bit too similar to tactical marines who don't take AP hits.

Drop pods as a paid upgrade for Dreadnought formations. This upgrade makes for a one-time rapid deployment assault force. It should also be expensive - cheaper than a Thunderhawk, but not much cheaper - say +100/125 points. This should avoid unfluffy cheap dread drop formations popping up everywhere.

The alternative choice is a slow all-Dread formation - ideal for garrisons etc. Maybe bump the initial cost slightly as the Dreads are not inflicting the "movement penalty" on the SM infantry formations as they do in the current list.

And of course they could still be taken as upgrades to SM infantry formations. The formation should also have the "Commander" upgrade option, although not the lib/chap/SC alternatives.

The nuclear option is to make them 0-1, but I don't think they warrant it.

CyberShadow
20-11-2007, 13:29
Well, this is a little traumatic... I find myself agreeing in part with Jow! ;)

I can see and accept the justification for not having Dread formations in the game. It simply doesnt fit the background for a 'standard' Chapter to have its elite, half dead veterans off on their own. However, for some Chapters I can see this happening - Iron Hands, etc.

The problem for me is the sacrifice that needs to be made in order to take Dreads at all. By taking a single Dread in a mixed formation, you instantly slow it down to walking speed, with no alternative.

I would love to have a pure Dread formation, in drop pods... :cool:

Chaos and Evil
20-11-2007, 14:02
Note that the standard list is supposed to cover codex-divergant Chapters to some extent, like Chapters that field 100 (Or even more) Terminators, or Chapters that specialise in using Scout formations.

I'm in favour of Dreadnought formations.

Jow
21-11-2007, 14:41
Well, this is a little traumatic... I find myself agreeing in part with Jow! ;)


:eek: lol

Like I said above, I really don't see it as unfluffy for any chapter. Dreadnoughts are less rare per stand than Terminators or land raiders are in a typical chapter. And as for them being out on their own, maybe a SM Captain will put his 4 together, or will divy them up to units in thunderhawks or drop pods. Who knows?

As far as playability goes, maybe being in an all AV formation will help them. Often times if dreads are the only AV in a formation of mostly infantry, they get destroyed easier because they are the only unit in that formation that can be targeted by something like a lascannon. In an all AV formation, maybe they won't be such a convenient target for shooters.