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RobC
22-02-2008, 16:43
22/February/2008 - Fantasy Flight Games Announcement
Fantasy Flight Games to Exclusively Publish Board Games, Card Games, and Roleplaying Games based on Games Workshop properties.

Roseville, Minnesota (February 22, 2008) – Fantasy Flight Games (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/) (“FFG”) and Games Workshop (“GW”) jointly announced today that they have reached an agreement for Fantasy Flight Games to become the exclusive publisher of board games, card games (including collectible card games), and roleplaying games based on Games Workshop’s family of renowned intellectual properties including Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Warhammer 40,000. Additionally, the deal will grant FFG the exclusive rights to publish new versions of the classic board and card games titles published by Games Workshop over the last 25 years.

Additionally, a second agreement between the parties will transfer the publication rights and system of the Universal Fighting System CCG, formerly published by Sabertooth Games, to FFG.

“We are just so thrilled to partner with Games Workshop in such an encompassing deal,” said Christian T. Petersen, CEO and founder of FFG. “Not only will we be able to continue the publication of some phenomenal roleplaying, card, and board games currently on the market, but we look forward to creating new games for the popular GW universes!”

"In Fantasy Flight Games, we’ve found a partner who shares our passion for gaming and our dedication to producing the highest quality products,” said Andy Jones, Head of Legal and Licensing for Games Workshop. “e legacy of our board, card, and roleplaying games is in the best possible hands with them, and we are extremely excited about the prospects of seeing some fabulous new games set in our universes as well. ”

Stingray_tm
22-02-2008, 16:48
FRAKK YEAH!!!

Okay, i take back what i said about GW management, they seem to know, what they are doing!

ThousandPlateaus
22-02-2008, 16:57
I'm very pleased about this news, obviously - but could someone explain why this has happened (ie - BI being closed only to give licence to someone else)? Is that just a really naive 'business' question on my part?

Gen.Steiner
22-02-2008, 17:18
It takes the costs out of GW's hands and FFG will have had to pay for the licence. I think that'll be why this has happened.

I will now laugh manically as all those people who bought a million copies of Dark Heresy in the hopes of selling them off at a vast profit now see their 'investment' collapse. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :D

ThousandPlateaus
22-02-2008, 17:22
I thought it'd be as simple as something like that (business is not one of my strong points!)

ScooterinAB
22-02-2008, 17:23
I suspected something like this would happen. The moment I heard BI close, I knew that someone would be in there to pick up the licences. Dark Heresy is the most anticipated roleplaying game in almost a decade, and I couldn't see the community and the industry letitng it go.

@ThousandPlateaus: I'll try and explain how this went down last time, as I think that the reasoning might be the same. A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away (the UK in the 70's or early 80's), WD used to be a gaming magazine. It used to publish (IIRC) articles for many things, inlcuding GW stuff and D&D. Later, GW decided to focus on its own products. After that, it decided to foucs specifically on miniatures. WHFRP got the axe. Another UK company, Hogshead, picked up the game, and published it for years until they closed shop due to the glut on d20 games.

Basically, GW wanted to make miniature games and pretty much only miniature games. I suspect that it is very difficult for them to extend their tentacles into too many other types of games. GW has previously stated that it will pretty much never do a board game again, due to the language barrier in all of its countries of sale. If we use this excuse, it's just too hard and costly for GW to get all of this other material, like cards and rpg's traslated for other markets while also trying to focus on its core market (WHF & 40k).

I suspect that GW tried their hand at roleplaying and other games again (in the form of BI), to see if it could be done yet, and probably saw that it was still too difficult to pull off. So they decided to close up that side of shop. However, knowing that there was still interest and money to be made, GW licenced out these other products, letting someone else pick up the tab, while still using them to attract new players.

That's what I speculate, based on how things went (from what I read) with WHFRP so many years ago.

Something of a side note. Specialist Games as died and come back more times than Elvis. Things are very hard to kill (look at the Squats). Necromunda alone has had 3 seperate releases in GW history. Blood Bowl like, a half dozen. The Specialist Games and now the roleplaying games are very hard to get fans to forget about. SG is now taking a different route (online material), and the rpg's are again in the hands of a third party. And in about a decade or so, GW will pull the licence and try to release the rpg's again, while at the same time disolve SG and try to bring it back into the fold, only to realize these still don't make any money. And the Circle of Life will continue.

Dr. Who
22-02-2008, 17:25
Exceeellleeennnttt!
:D
Thanks for the heads up, RobC.

- Dr.

erion
22-02-2008, 17:32
I'm not complaining at all. I'm very glad to see Dark Heresy has a new home. But one wonders why GW chose to license the main distributor of Rackham minis to the US to handle development of it's IP.

The Judge
22-02-2008, 17:40
Thank feth at least someone is still handling GW's RPG and CCG capabilities.

explorator
22-02-2008, 17:43
This is wonderful news. FFG is a great company that makes excellent games and they offer wonderful support in the way of expansions. I can find no fault in this partnership. :)

LittleLeadMen
22-02-2008, 17:45
I'm not complaining at all. I'm very glad to see Dark Heresy has a new home. But one wonders why GW chose to license the main distributor of Rackham minis to the US to handle development of it's IP.

Because Fantasy Flight is one of the best board game manufacturers out there. GW isn't great at that, why not use a company that's specialty is board gaming? Why would GW care about Fantasy Flight's other deals, they have nothing to do with how GW's product is going to be presented.

Templar Ben
22-02-2008, 17:45
It takes the costs out of GW's hands and FFG will have had to pay for the licence. I think that'll be why this has happened.

I will now laugh manically as all those people who bought a million copies of Dark Heresy in the hopes of selling them off at a vast profit now see their 'investment' collapse. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :D

Too late I am afraid. I sold 5 copies for a tidy profit. I wish I had a couple more now though because we don't know how well they will sale in the run up to the new edition under FF.


I'm very pleased about this news, obviously - but could someone explain why this has happened (ie - BI being closed only to give licence to someone else)? Is that just a really naive 'business' question on my part?

Not a bad question at all. GW is trying to focus on the aspects that they do best and those that have higher margin. This would be plastic minis.

spaint2k
22-02-2008, 17:46
I'm not complaining at all. I'm very glad to see Dark Heresy has a new home. But one wonders why GW chose to license the main distributor of Rackham minis to the US to handle development of it's IP.

More importantly, we have to wonder if the spelling of all future WFRP/DH supplements will follow UK or US conventions.

Regardless of which style they choose, I do hope they can at least find someone to proofread all final copies before being sent to the printers. While I love my Dark Heresy rulebook dearly and hug it every night before I go to sleep, the sheer number of mistakes really drives me up the wall. I have spent too many years teaching English and proofreading translations to NOT notice them.

Steve

de Selby
22-02-2008, 18:23
Leaving aside the question of Dark Heresy profiteering, I'm pleased by this news even though I have no interest in RP games. The decision to ditch aparently successful product lines made little sense to me. The decision to let another company run them makes much more sense (apparently one with a good rep).

blongbling
22-02-2008, 18:29
hopefully all those, "gw is rubbish cos it closed BI" will now be silent :P

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
22-02-2008, 18:34
When I heard of Black Industries I thought that this might happen ever since I found out that they published Fury of Dracula & Warrior Knights.

RobC
22-02-2008, 18:38
Guys, please stop derailing the thread. The ethics of price gouging can be discussed elsewhere.

My response? I'm very pleased. I've not heard much about FFG, but I've spoken to a few friends since the announcement and they had nothing but good things to say about the company.

As for BI, I hope that FFG sees the sense in picking up the freelance staff used by Green Ronin and BI, and considers using Mike as a project manager in some capacity. He did a great job on DH and, hopefully, FFG will recognise that and take him on board.

As for spelling conventions... as a Brit I'm hoping they adhere to UK English, and not the mutant hybrid used by Green Ronin – UK spelling but US punctuation? Where will the madness end?!

OrlyggJafnakol
22-02-2008, 18:39
I suspected things would go this way. I wonder how long this 'deal' has been in existance. Nice to see that Dark Hersey and Talisman are safe in the hands of a company who appear to be, by gamers for gamers. As to the quality of their finished product... Only time will tell.

I wonder how long until we will see websites and plans for the future?

BigRob
22-02-2008, 19:07
Brilliant News!

Now to see how much they do with WFRP!

Bregalad
22-02-2008, 19:19
Here is the full press release, including specific statements on both GW RPGs:


Fantasy Flight Games to Exclusively Publish Board Games, Card Games, and Roleplaying Games based on Games Workshop properties.

Second deal to include Sabertooth Games' Universal Fighting System CCG

Roseville, Minnesota (February 22, 2008) – Fantasy Flight Games (“FFG”) and Games Workshop (“GW”) jointly announced today that they have reached an agreement for Fantasy Flight Games to become the exclusive publisher of board games, card games (including collectible card games), and roleplaying games based on Games Workshop’s family of renowned intellectual properties including Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Warhammer 40,000. Additionally, the deal will grant FFG the exclusive rights to publish new versions of the classic board and card games titles published by Games Workshop over the last 25 years.

Additionally, a second agreement between the parties will transfer the publication rights and system of the Universal Fighting System CCG, formerly published by Sabertooth Games, to FFG.

“We are just so thrilled to partner with Games Workshop in such an encompassing deal,” said Christian T. Petersen, CEO and founder of FFG. “Not only will we be able to continue the publication of some phenomenal roleplaying, card, and board games currently on the market, but we look forward to creating new games for the popular GW universes!”

"In Fantasy Flight Games, we’ve found a partner who shares our passion for gaming and our dedication to producing the highest quality products,” said Andy Jones, Head of Legal and Licensing for Games Workshop. The legacy of our board, card, and roleplaying games is in the best possible hands with them, and we are extremely excited about the prospects of seeing some fabulous new games set in our universes as well. ”

This is the beginning of an exciting new era for the Universal Fighting System," said Stephen Horvath, CEO of Sabertooth Games. “Fantasy Flight Games are the perfect choice to carry on the UFS line, and fans can expect great new content and more fantastic events supporting their favorite CCG going forward.

FFG will take over the production of Talisman, and plan to produce a new printing and expansions for the 4th edition of this ever-popular classic board game. Further, FFG will continue production and new-product support for the Universal Fighting System CCG, the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay RPG, and the new smash-hit Dark Heresy RPG. More details on FFG’s publication plans for these titles will be provided in the weeks to come.

The agreement does not include certain GW titles in which miniatures feature as the predominant component of the game, such as Space Hulk and Blood Bowl.

The Universal Fighting System CCG will continue to be sold as starter and booster packs in a traditional CCG format. FFG has no current plans to adopt the game to its LCG™ (“Living Card Game”) sales model.

Mojaco
22-02-2008, 19:20
Hope they found a place for the old BI staff there too... Be nice to your staff GW!

AGC
22-02-2008, 19:26
And here was me about to make a long and extremely complicated post about how none of the explanations for the closure of BI made sense and how we must all be missing something rather big...

But anyways I'm really happy about this. This does make sense. With the financial problems and restructuring at GW they probably realised they didn't have the money or people to invest in new books for the DH And WFRP lines, so made the sound decision to sell the rights to somebody that did.

However you've got to admit it wasn't the best of public relations to announce the end of the Black Industries lines a month before telling anyone that someone else was taking the lines over.

Oh and I feel really sorry for that guy who sold all his 40K stuff in protest at the end of DH.

erion
22-02-2008, 19:28
Oh and I feel really sorry for that guy who sold all his 40K stuff in protest at the end of DH.

Not me. I always enjoy when overreaction gets the best of someone.

RobC
22-02-2008, 19:33
However you've got to admit it wasn't the best of public relations to announce the end of the Black Industries lines a month before telling anyone that someone else was taking the lines over.Agreed. I suspect that the FFG deal has only just been made, otherwise it would have been a much better PR coup to announce a handover rather than BI's closure, then this after a few weeks.

Either way, I'm pleased that WFRP will continue.

scarletsquig
22-02-2008, 19:34
This is fantastic news.


I've not heard much about FFG, but I've spoken to a few friends since the announcement and they had nothing but good things to say about the company.
Allow me to add another positive voice. :)

1. FFG has done a lot of great stuff for Rackham, before they took over there were major distribution problems with AT-43, models being released months before their army book etc.

2. FFG also recently brought back the confrontation metals that a lot of the fans missed when Rackham switched to prepaints.

3. FFG has a complete media department (check out their rackham videos), great online galleries with 360 degree view, very professional approach.

4. I've been on the Rackham forums before, and FFG has a guy on there asking the fanbase directly what they want them to do next.


In short, I'm well aware of how well this company knows how to do business, and it's a good move. It was no coincidence that Rackham's financial troubles disappeared a few months after they started letting FFG handle things.

I found this part interesting:


!e agreement does not include certain GW titles in which miniatures feature as the predominant component of
the game, such as Space Hulk and Blood Bowl.

Since it potentially means that GW has an interest in making those 2 itself.

reds8n
22-02-2008, 19:36
As for BI, I hope that FFG sees the sense in picking up the freelance staff used by Green Ronin and BI,


Well, I've heard bad things about a least 1 of them....:p

Best news I've heard in ages this announcement.

Aside from the wonder of more DH stuff it should mean we get at least talisman supplemnt too ! This calls for more wine.:cool:

Qdeu
22-02-2008, 19:42
Excellent news. Now I'm waiting even more eagerly for my copy of Dark Heresy to arrive.

palmtree
22-02-2008, 19:50
Lets not forget that there's a boardgame license in here too. A new edition of Space Hulk would make me very, very happy.

erion
22-02-2008, 20:00
It specifically mentions that space hulk is staying with GW, though.

Huw_Dawson
22-02-2008, 20:09
Because some GW games use specific 40k or Warhammer models, it would be very, very, very stupid for them to licence out the models.

Of course, if they wanted to produce a Warhammer 40k game (say) using card or items they make themselves, GW will probably be happy for them to do so.

Anyway.

GREAT NEWS! I am really happy that GW has seen the value of outsourcing a product rather than scrapping it. I'm betting that a certain money maker at GW thought "Hang on, if New Line can sell ITS licence..." ;)

Fantastic. This has made my day!
- Huw

EDIT: I kind of feel sorry for Sabertooth Games, though.

Bregalad
22-02-2008, 20:14
1. FFG has done a lot of great stuff for Rackham, before they took over there were major distribution problems with AT-43, models being released months before their army book etc.

2. FFG also recently brought back the confrontation metals that a lot of the fans missed when Rackham switched to prepaints.

3. FFG has a complete media department (check out their rackham videos), great online galleries with 360 degree view, very professional approach.

4. I've been on the Rackham forums before, and FFG has a guy on there asking the fanbase directly what they want them to do next.

So basically, FFG is the hero of the RPG and tabletop scene: Saving Rackham AND BI! What next? A LatD Codex, Xeno terrain, plastic Tyranid gargoyles and a female Farseer miniature? ;)

LordFulgrim
22-02-2008, 20:14
I'm doing the silly dance of joy right now!
I hope that they'll also re-print some of the now hard to get books for WFRP like Children of the Horned Rat; reading the announcement it seems to suggest just that.

Huw_Dawson
22-02-2008, 20:19
There is one issue.

How well is the UK going to be served by a US company? FFG is a solely US distributor at the moment - will they be able to supply UK stores with lovely shiney new crisp new book smelling copies of Dark Heresy... I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought! Where was I. Ah yes.

The only other issue is what happens if Rackham survives. FFG is now serving two competing companies, both in an in depth way!

- Huw

Shamfrit
22-02-2008, 20:22
Thank the gods! I've been worrying and frustrating over expansions for Talisman, now it seems we may still get them, after all, there's only so many times you can draw Demon without getting bored, it really is too good to just let die, nice one GW/FFG :D

reds8n
22-02-2008, 20:27
Perhaps the Rackham issue is one reason why the GW mini lines are NOt being covered ? Helps avoid a conflict of interest perhaps ?

Mahwell Skel
22-02-2008, 20:28
Does this mean Block Mania, Warlock of Firetop Mountain as well? It seems to refer to (many) board games but only mentions specifically the BI one.

RobC
22-02-2008, 20:37
Does this mean Block Mania, Warlock of Firetop Mountain as well? It seems to refer to (many) board games but only mentions specifically the BI one.Potentially, but it's a licence with GW and its properties. Stuff like the Judge Dredd RPG and Block Mania aren't owned by GW so FFG wouldn't be able to republish them.

reds8n
22-02-2008, 20:49
Didn't Mongoose release them not too long ago anyway ? I'm pretty certain they have or had the license not too long ago.

I wonder how strict the "no minis2 clause is ? Be a shame if this precluded a new Dungeonquest. I mean I've still got andplay the original but missed out on the expansion(s) and the few I've seen on Ebay etc go for stupid money.

Archibald_TK
22-02-2008, 20:55
Wonderful News ! Reading that thread was the best way to end my day of work.


How well is the UK going to be served by a US company? FFG is a solely US distributor at the moment - will they be able to supply UK stores with lovely shiney new crisp new book smelling copies of Dark Heresy... I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought! Where was I. Ah yes.
Are you sure you don't have a master retailer already distributing them to shops in your country ? For exemple in France and in Spain FFG products are imported in a very efficient way by Millenium Distribution.

Messiah
22-02-2008, 21:18
WOW! FFG is the god of boardgames. This will be niiice. :)

GAWD
22-02-2008, 21:36
Oh ... how there was wailing and knashing of teeth just a few short weeks ago.

GW sucks for closing BI, it was profitable blah ... blah ... blah.

to all the BI naysayers: There's a reason for everything folks. When something completely defies reason, then we're looking for reason in the wrong place.

GW is fighting for its life, essentially handing everything non-mini related to FFG is part and parcel of that. Now GW can concentrate on what it does best (or at least it tells us it does best) ... TT miniwargames.

Now, if only we could FFG to take over the whole thing, maybe we'd see some progress in the quality of TT mini games too. :D

Ghal Maraz
22-02-2008, 21:42
That's the best news of the month.

FFG taking over the GW roleplays, card-games and board-games.

Awesome.

Ghal Maraz
22-02-2008, 21:46
Now, if only we could FFG to take over the whole thing, maybe we'd see some progress in the quality of TT mini games too. :D


Now, I would actually prefer a cohalition of FFG, Privateer, Green Ronin and Mongoose, but that's just me!:D

Messiah
22-02-2008, 21:47
If only FFG could take over Babylon 5 ACTA from Mongoose as well..

Supremearchmarshal
22-02-2008, 21:56
Finally! A good move on GW's part!

Brandir
22-02-2008, 22:22
FFG are paying GW $250,000 for Sabertooth:

http://www.sharecast.com/cgi-bin/sharecast/story.cgi?story_id=1937307

Looks like GW are going down the licensing route to try and create an income stream without too much effort. I suspect that the GW suits have been scavenging the GW archives for properties that can be licensed. What other announcements do we expect?

Someone else taking on SG?

CapitanGuinea
22-02-2008, 22:30
Thanks to Goddess...

And to mr. Petersen.

The professionists are finally arrived.

Bregalad
22-02-2008, 22:43
Now, I would actually prefer a cohalition of FFG, Privateer, Green Ronin and Mongoose, but that's just me!:D
Please no coalition with Mongoose. They destroyed "Battlefield Evolution", "Starship trooper", "Babylon 5 ACTA". They don't have any credibility left. Sorry to say that, but that's how it is.

ThousandPlateaus
22-02-2008, 22:57
I suspect that the GW suits have been scavenging the GW archives for properties that can be licensed. What other announcements do we expect?

Someone else taking on SG?

I wish that were the case, but I imagine that they're far too miniature-based for GW to let go of them. A pity, I think, as I'd love to see further support for the existing SG, or re-releases of older SG like Man O'War.

I would also love to see the re-issue of Space Hulk and Warhammer Quest, even perhaps some of the older MB Games/GW sets would be cool as they all still sell for good money on eBay.

MadDogMike
22-02-2008, 23:02
Cool, I can downgrade my irritation with the BI closing finally. Sending the RPG stuff out of house makes perfect sense, it was only the fact that by what was discussed sounded suspiciously like they were ignoring that market altogether, which was dumb business. Outsourcing the risk of the business and just collecting licensing fees is par for the course in the RPG industry. GW really should have mentioned the possibility of a license in the first place (or at least made noncommital hints like "we are discussing the possibility" or something), would have saved much grief. Of course, now my anxiety goes into "how much is FFG going to tinker with things", but again, kinda par for the course with licensing so no big deal :D.

Bregalad
22-02-2008, 23:16
"Sir, the Dark Heresy special edition sold out in 6 minutes, and the standard edition sold out before release. We risk to be buried in piles of money!"
"You are right. Let's get rid of the profitable parts of GW, fire the lead designers, screw the indies and concentrate on the new LOTR miniature range. We don't want to get out of the deficit zone, right?":rolleyes:

Templar Ben
22-02-2008, 23:24
Fantastic. This has made my day!
- Huw

EDIT: I kind of feel sorry for Sabertooth Games, though.

Huw, I told you in PM I wouldn't write but I wanted to let you know about this part. Yesterday and today all the Sabertooth guys were interviewing. I will not speculate (publicly) what this will mean for their jobs. The presumption is that means more HQ moving from Baltimore to Memphis as it does free up a lot of office space. Accounting and finance has already moved and due to cost of living there are some advantages outside of Memphis tax incentives.

If any Sabertooth guys are brought on board they will be moving somewhere cold.

Okay, Huw. I am back out. :angel:

Bael
22-02-2008, 23:34
Excellent news - I'm glad supplements for WHFP, Talisman and Dark Heresy are coming out.

Not sure why GW didn't announce BI closing and the new licence with FFG at the same time. Would have saved everyone a lot of anguish.

Darnok
22-02-2008, 23:34
Excellent news, now I can rest in peace. :D

Seriously, this is a great deal, both for GW and FFG. Hopefully we'll see many good things come out of this.

scarletsquig
22-02-2008, 23:43
Not sure why GW didn't announce BI closing and the new licence with FFG at the same time. Would have saved everyone a lot of anguish.

That leads me to wonder whether or not it was their plan all along, or just a knuckle-headed business decision that someone smart near the top of GW managed to salvage with the FFG deal. How long would a deal like this normally take to work out?

Ghal Maraz
22-02-2008, 23:46
Please no coalition with Mongoose. They destroyed "Battlefield Evolution", "Starship trooper", "Babylon 5 ACTA". They don't have any credibility left. Sorry to say that, but that's how it is.

Oh, didn't know that, they're all games I don't play. Perhaps is better I amend my previous post, no?;)

Patriarch
23-02-2008, 00:27
Shame about no new Space Hulk/miniatures games, but this is unexpected good news anyway.

If this company is mostly about CCGs and RPGs, it probably won't interest me much. But there were all-card properties in the past such as Battle for Armageddon/Chainsaw Warrior, it would be great if some of these were revisited, though no evidence they would be from the messages.

Blood Bowl was originally a card-only game, the miniatures came later. Not suggesting they'd do BB (as GW still does it, ta very much) but something like Space Hulk could be re-done with card termies/stealers. A bonus for GW is that serious players would be directed to GW to buy more satisfying 3D models. I can but dream....

blongbling
23-02-2008, 00:36
huw, FFG games are available all across europe mate....

GAWD
23-02-2008, 00:55
Not sure why GW didn't announce BI closing and the new licence with FFG at the same time. Would have saved everyone a lot of anguish.

Really? I think they did it this way just to watch all their fanboi cry babies soil their pants ... it worked.:evilgrin:

Osbad
23-02-2008, 01:00
Well, whatever next! A sensible business decision from GW! Will there be a blue moon any time soon?

Zink
23-02-2008, 01:06
Why wouldn't FFG be able to produce Space Hulk or Warhammer Quest/Heroquest? Take a look at Descent or Doom on their website. I can think of other specialist games that could be done by them as well. All in all this may be the best thing I've heard out of GW for a long time. Here's hoping that they clean up and redo the fun old games.

New Cult King
23-02-2008, 01:09
This is such good news. I can barely believe it. I would love to see Space Hulk redone, even if it meant I had to go out and buy the Termie and Genestealers seperately. Not to mention the continuation of DH and hopefully its supplements. This has cheered me up immensely :D

Glabro
23-02-2008, 01:59
Superb! What a relief.

About Space Hulk, GW kept it for a reason. A re-release is on the cards.

Bael
23-02-2008, 02:33
About Space Hulk, GW kept it for a reason. A re-release is on the cards.
I hope so. Space Hulk and Warhammer Quest are 2 of my favourite games. I wish GW would re-release both as they are so pricey on ebay. They won't be done by FFG though according to the press release. Not sure about the Heroquest licence.

Usiel
23-02-2008, 03:11
In general :D ZOMGWOOTMADEOFWIN!!! ...ah hem, this news pleases me.

I didn't wait a decade for a 40K rpg to have it taken away so quickly, so thanks GW you are made of win again!!!


About Space Hulk, GW kept it for a reason. A re-release is on the cards.

Okay, it's just rude to pick on our feelings like this. PROOF! or at least What did you hear?! That is pretty much the other thing I've been waiting a decade for. :eek:

Usi - A happy little camper :skull:

sulla
23-02-2008, 03:36
Good stuff. looking forward tio these guys moving the games forward.

Plaguebeast
23-02-2008, 05:14
Well I certainly have egg on my face :P. This is fantastic news! It's also rather comforting to hear the praise being heaped upon FFG for their other productions. Here's hoping they do just as well with WFRP and DH although I must admit I'm a little concerned about how they will approach established fluff - hopefully they have enough writers with extensive knowledge of GW's universes so that glaring inconsistencies won't appear and creative liberties aren't taken.

Plaguebeast

devolutionary
23-02-2008, 05:52
*********** awesome! God I hope they make a CCG for 40k, that'll be just as awesome as Game of Thrones is! Utterly stoked about this.

Nazguire
23-02-2008, 06:32
Great news. At least the board games and RPGs haven't completely perished. And with FFG record it seems like a good omen.
Now quickly everyone, seal your pact with Games Workshop and sacrifice a virgin to ensure it stays this way.

RobC
23-02-2008, 09:49
I must admit I'm a little concerned about how they will approach established fluff - hopefully they have enough writers with extensive knowledge of GW's universes so that glaring inconsistencies won't appear and creative liberties aren't taken.All licensed background stuff is run past GW staff. This was always the case with Green Ronin's material (as far as I'm aware) and will be the case for FFG, unless GW has decided to trust a third-party company.... no, it will be the same. GW recognises that its intellectual property is what distinguishes it from the rest of the market, and would never let a third-party company do anything without its express permission.

Huw_Dawson
23-02-2008, 10:03
The development for WAR had Gav Thorpe and co wandering down to Mythic every other day to double check that they're not giving tanks to the Empire or somesuch... oh, wait... ;)

WAR has shown that GW is willing to modify its cannon (See what I did there?) to meet the style of a company and the format. Here is hoping FFG has plenty of creative freedom to rock!

- Huw

rkunisch
23-02-2008, 10:21
Good news, indeed. :D


About Space Hulk, GW kept it for a reason. A re-release is on the cards.
I am not so sure about this. True, it was rumoured more than once that we see it come back, but on the other hand has GW more than once said that they are done with the cardboard production. A new version of Space Hulk may be some special plastic terrain and a rule book.

I think the main reason, all the games with minis are left out of the deal is, that GW does neither want someone else produce their minis nor being involved too much in the production.

There is hope, if this deal works good and FFG is interested in releasing something like Space Hulk, the licensing may be expanded, but I won't hold my breath.

Have fun,

Rolf.

shady
23-02-2008, 10:23
WAR has shown that GW is willing to modify its cannon (See what I did there?)

Yup. Misspelled canon.

shady
23-02-2008, 10:25
I hope so. Space Hulk and Warhammer Quest are 2 of my favourite games. I wish GW would re-release both as they are so pricey on ebay. They won't be done by FFG though according to the press release. Not sure about the Heroquest licence.

An alternative reason, in Space Hulk's case, is that they didn't want to see a bunch of cheap terminators and genestealers on the market.

RobC
23-02-2008, 11:26
WAR has shown that GW is willing to modify its cannon (See what I did there?) to meet the style of a company and the format.WAR exists in its own little bubble. WFRP has always been tightly shackled to the wargame, often to its disadvantage. I'd be surprised if GW changed this.

Wombats
23-02-2008, 12:41
FFG are the makers of my favourite board game, A Game of Thrones.
They also make a few expensive pieces of rubbish like Descent.

What they have done is picked up some well establish IPs like Starcraft, Warcraft and plenty more and done them justice with innovative gameplay.

Christian Peterson, who is quoted in the article is a brilliant game designer.

/boardgamerspeak
FFG's bad eggs are mostly due to a school of gaming usually referred to as "Amerigames" or Wargames like Risk.
They've shown a really encouraging tendency to take wargames and mix in some Eurogame elements - very elegantly designed rules, often based around negotiation between players and adding enough to the replayability to...well, I picked up Settlers of Cattan years ago and still play it on a weekly basis.
/end boardgamerspeak

This is a big leap...and quite possibly into very, very good hands.

Look forward to a lot of lush, beautifully detailed Warhammer games coming soon...
...and with Christian at the helm we'll likely see some gobsmackingly well done game mechanics which reflect the atmosphere.

A Game of Thrones bought the visceral, knife-in-the-back, Machiavellian antics of the novels to life...imagine the same thing done for Eisenhorn!

To summarize: Woooooooohooooooooo!

Ghal Maraz
23-02-2008, 13:35
I am not so sure about this. True, it was rumoured more than once that we see it come back, but on the other hand has GW more than once said that they are done with the cardboard production. A new version of Space Hulk may be some special plastic terrain and a rule book.


Wasn't in there some time ago the rumour that GW will actually release a 3rd ed. of Space Hulk with plastic floor-plans and doors? I seem to remember that. I guess it's all a cunning plan...;)


If this company is mostly about CCGs and RPGs, it probably won't interest me much. But there were all-card properties in the past such as Battle for Armageddon/Chainsaw Warrior, it would be great if some of these were revisited, though no evidence they would be from the messages.

Don't worry, Patriarch. FFG IS primarily a board-game company!


All licensed background stuff is run past GW staff. This was always the case with Green Ronin's material (as far as I'm aware) and will be the case for FFG, unless GW has decided to trust a third-party company.... no, it will be the same.

Quoted for truth!!!:evilgrin:

Vic
23-02-2008, 14:47
If FFG were to produce new tiles/terrain for SH, and let GW work on the miniatures end, I'd be happy with that!!!

Myabe ship the game with cardboard chits for the minis, and the buyer gets the models over time?

At any rate, excellent news. Hopefully GW continues with smart moves.....

Niibl
23-02-2008, 15:19
I fear that FFG is overstretching itself.
They have so many Licenses now which all somewhow have the same target group that it will be difficult to keep them all alive.
They all will need investment to support and expand them and I doubt that they will be able to do this (and pay for the licenses).
I expect that they will be be forced to concentrate on a smaller selection of games, stop developing the games (i.e.ending up as a scrapyard of games) or go down.
Well, on the other hand I would like them to get the Inquisitor license as well and get the 54mm miniatures back on the market to support Dark Heresy (which is the much better game).

Bregalad
23-02-2008, 16:55
If FFG were to produce new tiles/terrain for SH, and let GW work on the miniatures end, I'd be happy with that!!!
Actually, they have already done that! Have a look at the board game Doom:
Doom (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/va08.html)
Same scale, fine modular floor tiles plus details, even some plastic daemon miniatures! Better than original Space Hulk stuff!
BTW, FFG will not produce Space Hulk or Blood Bowl, because the licence explicitely forbids that.

Moral Wiz
23-02-2008, 17:58
I don't think that anyone mentioned it yet, but FFG has one of the best know Dark RPG settings under it's belt, Midnight. If their Dark Heresy work is of that standerd, I'll be happy. :D

Lost_Heretic
23-02-2008, 18:33
I fear that FFG is overstretching itself.
They have so many Licenses now which all somewhow have the same target group that it will be difficult to keep them all alive.

FFG has been great at *not* taking a license too far. They pick up the license and release a high quality game, along with an expansion. The license that's had the most support, as far as I know, has been Warcraft, with the original board game and expansion, followed by the World of Warcraft game and two expansions. If fans wanted to pick up absolutely everything, then that would be about three hundred dollars, less than many Warhammer armies.

FFG's business model seems to be far different than, say, GW's. How much support do they really put into a license? Unlike GW's evolving wargame, FFG really just releases a game, fixes it with errata and leaves it alone. If the game sells well initially, another production run is done and an expansion is released. If the game builds a fanbase, it might be rereleased in a new edition.

So yeah, I don't think FFG will have any problems in the near future. They've got licenses to hold onto and keep the company growing.

Brandir
23-02-2008, 20:02
If I remember correctly GW does have quite a back catalogue of board games for FFG to review, revise and re-release. Anyone remember 'Kings & Things', 'Chainsaw Warrior', 'Rogue Trooper' and 'Dark Future'?

Oguleth
23-02-2008, 21:30
This sounds awesome. I kinda wonder how at least they couldn't have released a hint at least of their intentions instead of the hopeless pr stunt they did back then when they scrapped BI.

Anything that has extra stuff for DH in the works leaves me exited at least.. And with the game of thrones being the only card game in the last years that have had me enjoying it for a while, and several other products I can only say it seems the license is in good hands too..

Niibl
23-02-2008, 23:48
How much support do they really put into a license? Unlike GW's evolving wargame, FFG really just releases a game, fixes it with errata and leaves it alone
That's what I call a games scrap yard.
It is a way to do business but if that happens with Dark Heresy, the game is effectively still dead.
Well, I can not change it anyway so I try to stay optimistic.

(I wonder what GW thinks about FFG also having a confrontation license.)

Wombats
24-02-2008, 01:12
That's what I call a games scrap yard.
It is a way to do business but if that happens with Dark Heresy, the game is effectively still dead.


FFG get it mostly right the first time and release FAQ's and copious expansions to address issues.

I'm still playing FFG games four years old.

They are first and foremost game designers.

GW are first and foremost miniature designers and fluff writers, and it shows in their patchy (although great fun) rules and the odd slip up in codex creep.

Seriously, check out A Game of Thrones.


We are all strategy buffs to some extent here.

That game is like chess on a Risk board with about four levels of political negotiation on top of it.

One FAQ cleared up all our issues.

There are two expansions, each with about three or four optional rules.
Each of these addresses one very minor issue someone might take with certain rules:
- Don't like navies getting wiped out? Hide in optional ports.
- Don't like your Generals? There's a second set that changes them.

Something like this set in Warhammer...wow...just wow.

We are in for some seriously good stuff.

Gazak Blacktoof
24-02-2008, 01:18
I'm very glad to hear this.

FFG seem like decent bunch of people from the limited contact our group has had with them.

Dooks Dizzo
24-02-2008, 04:12
If this means a return of Warhammer Quest I will be just about the happiest guy ever.

Crymson
24-02-2008, 04:44
If it's not going to include Space Hulk it's not going to include Warhammer Quest :cries:

lorelorn
24-02-2008, 06:38
FFG already do Descent: Journeys in the Dark, a worthy successor to Warhammer Quest.

Axel
24-02-2008, 10:21
I'm still playing FFG games four years old.
They are first and foremost game designers.

GW are first and foremost miniature designers and fluff writers, ...


The license goes for RPGs, and it is unlikely that DH will not play a major part in it.

But for RPGs you need background. Lots of. So how do they cope with the development of background? Will GW do the job for them, will they simply split the world of 40k at this time, both venturing their own direction from now on, will GW adhere to what FFG writes as background, or will FFG NOT produce any background material?

There are some problems waiting to be explored :-)

Well, perhaps Gavs parting with GW will see him in charge of the background development at FFG - that would make my day :cool:
(note: background, not rules)

Brandir
24-02-2008, 10:27
I think one of the reasons GW has based DH in the Calixis Sector is the ability to develop fluff that does not impact on WH40K cannon.

I'm also sure that GW, under the Black Library imprint, will continue to publish novels like Scourge of the Heretic that are linked to the DH 40KRP.

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
24-02-2008, 13:03
If I remember correctly GW does have quite a back catalogue of board games for FFG to review, revise and re-release. Anyone remember 'Kings & Things', 'Chainsaw Warrior', 'Rogue Trooper' and 'Dark Future'?

Not sure about the others, but as people have said about Judge Dredd, GW would have to re-negotiate with Rebellion to get Rogue Trooper out.

ThousandPlateaus
24-02-2008, 14:12
If I remember correctly GW does have quite a back catalogue of board games for FFG to review, revise and re-release. Anyone remember 'Kings & Things', 'Chainsaw Warrior', 'Rogue Trooper' and 'Dark Future'?

Trolls in the Pantry! Woot!
:)

Darkson
24-02-2008, 17:35
This is good news, but I'm not going to go out celebrating just yet.
I'd rather wait and see as to wheter GW try to "interfere" to much, or just let FFG get on with it (which in itself might not be a good idea).

However, even in my most pessimistic view, this announcement can't be any worse than what we've been given over the last month or so, so here's hoping.

DonkeyMan
24-02-2008, 18:20
Interesting, very interesting. :eyebrows:

I wonder if GW planned this before they closed BI?
Or did FFG approach GW showing interest in publishing it?

Guess we'll never know. Well let us see how this one will go.

LittleLeadMen
24-02-2008, 18:35
The license that's had the most support, as far as I know, has been Warcraft

Let's not forget Cthulhu. The Arkham Horror game is incredible and has two major expansions, as well as three smaller card set expansions. It is one of the best board games I have ever played.

Brandir
24-02-2008, 18:41
Interesting, very interesting. :eyebrows:

I wonder if GW planned this before they closed BI?
Or did FFG approach GW showing interest in publishing it?

Guess we'll never know. Well let us see how this one will go.

As I understand it FFG were sniffing around GW, looking at taking over Sabertooth before the announcement. I also understand that they have been actively seeking to acquire the rights to certain board games from GW's back catalogue for some time now. FFG saw the lack of development for Talisman and had an inkling that Black Industries was essentially being run down.

The RPGs were just a 'Brucie Bonus'.

Gazak Blacktoof
24-02-2008, 20:18
Let's not forget Cthulhu. The Arkham Horror game is incredible and has two major expansions, as well as three smaller card set expansions. It is one of the best board games I have ever played.

Arkham and the WOW board game are alright, Twilight Imperium is better.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
24-02-2008, 21:02
Sounds pretty promising.

And I can see why it made a great deal of sense, business wise. You sell off the IP when it's doing extremely well. To a cash strapped company, this means they close a non-essential but well liked wing of the company, make a pot of money, and the product doesn't go away.

Perhaps this new guy knows what he's doing after all!

Jedi152
24-02-2008, 21:13
Good news!

As long as we'll be able to buy it in England...

Mad Doc Grotsnik
24-02-2008, 21:15
Of course we will silly britches!

I'm quite jazzed about it now. Perhaps there will be a contender to White Wolf for King of the Roleplays? At least in my world.

javgoro
25-02-2008, 00:10
The Emperor has heard my prayers, and answered to them, and I am His most faithful and dedicated servant for it. Rejoice in His light, my brothers, for we are blessed!

(In other words, this is a kickass announcement, and GW´s best course of action).

Huoshini
25-02-2008, 04:12
NEWS:
Incoming Transmission:=-

I don't know if anyone else was aware of this nor do I feel like sifting through th millions of posts. So...

The little brother company, Sabertoothgames, Is also closing it's doors. This is the company that developed and distributed the Warcry, dark milenium, and UFS card games.

UFS will also be sold to FFG

rkunisch
25-02-2008, 07:28
And I can see why it made a great deal of sense, business wise. You sell off the IP when it's doing extremely well. To a cash strapped company, this means they close a non-essential but well liked wing of the company, make a pot of money, and the product doesn't go away.
I am not completely convinced that it is a good idea, business wise. Sure, in short terms it is really good. You get the money from the licensing and keep the customer happy. You reduce the risk to loose a lot of money if products are not accepted by the market, but you also loose the opportunity to cash in on hot selling products. Long term it might be a bad idea to let externals participate in the creative process. That reduces the need to keep those people in-house, which means you reduce the amount of designers. It is something I observed in a lot of businesses lately.

Still, it is far better to let someone continue the good work of BI (and Sabertooth) than to close it down completely.


Perhaps this new guy knows what he's doing after all!
I still hope deeply for that to be true. :)

Have fun,

Rolf.

javgoro
25-02-2008, 08:10
I am not completely convinced that it is a good idea, business wise. Sure, in short terms it is really good. You get the money from the licensing and keep the customer happy. You reduce the risk to loose a lot of money if products are not accepted by the market, but you also loose the opportunity to cash in on hot selling products. Long term it might be a bad idea to let externals participate in the creative process. That reduces the need to keep those people in-house, which means you reduce the amount of designers. It is something I observed in a lot of businesses lately.

Still, it is far better to let someone continue the good work of BI (and Sabertooth) than to close it down completely.


I have the feeling that the main reason why it´s a good idea to do it is because it will probably mean a good idea to investors, since it´s a way to make profit that involves zero risk; on top of that, it´s also a very good gesture towards the fans, since this is likely to give GW a better image in the eyes of many customers (I know it´s made me happy), so all in all it´s probably a good short-term and even long term strategy for GW.
Also, I agree that it´s better to let the work continue than to close it down. Now, if Fantasy Flight are smart, they´ll hire the workers and freelancers that were working on the BI stuff, and keep them working in the fantastic products they´ve published, instead of looking for a new team that may or may not do the trick.

RFT
25-02-2008, 10:26
One set of games that I hope FFG will explore would be re-worked versions of the 40K wargames- Armageddon, Horus Heresy, and Doom Of The Eldar... Those would be well within the terms of their license, nto being mini-based.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 11:39
I am not completely convinced that it is a good idea, business wise. Sure, in short terms it is really good. You get the money from the licensing and keep the customer happy. You reduce the risk to loose a lot of money if products are not accepted by the market, but you also loose the opportunity to cash in on hot selling products. Long term it might be a bad idea to let externals participate in the creative process. That reduces the need to keep those people in-house, which means you reduce the amount of designers. It is something I observed in a lot of businesses lately.

Still, it is far better to let someone continue the good work of BI (and Sabertooth) than to close it down completely.


I still hope deeply for that to be true. :)

Have fun,

Rolf.

It's quite a good decision for the long term as well though. A wing of the company which, although profitable, is largely superfluous to the business model is sold off whilst it's products are well respected. This gives you instant savings, and of course, a fair sized cash injection. This is good no matter what people might say.

Now, the real genius is that not only are you saving money, but you are also managing to keep the IP alive, with the added bonus it's now someone else promoting and producing it. Sure, you won't see the profits, but it most likely balances out in the long term when you take into account the cut in overheads. Plus, should this move help even the keel on the parent company, since you are only licensing the product to the third party, you always have the option of revoking the license, and taking it back into the fold, ala Fantasy Roleplay when BI was set up. With any luck, you've chosen your licensee wisely, and they've grown the IP considerably, and established a larger player base than when they bought it.

Very smart, if long winded move....

EldarWolf
25-02-2008, 12:00
I can't help but remember how long it took Hogshead to get the last part of the WFRP Doomstones campaign past GW...:rolleyes:

RobC
25-02-2008, 12:33
I can't help but remember how long it took Hogshead to get the last part of the WFRP Doomstones campaign past GW...:rolleyes:That was a long time ago. The vetting procedure used during the BI era is now in place, so assuming it remains the same, FFG will have their stuff critiqued almost as quickly as if Green Ronin were producing it.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 12:39
And it is assumed that Doomstones was just delayed by sluggishness. Could have been written as a load of bobbins, and the vetting HAD to take a long time!

But the blame is always laid squarely with GW, and never with any other factor!

Jedi152
25-02-2008, 12:55
From what i've heard Doomstones was a load of bobbins after it was vetted...

I'm really happy about this still. I wonder if they'll have access to GW artwork? Or whether or not they'll go after any freelancers such as Andy Law.

Darkson
25-02-2008, 12:56
Unless GW has (concrete) plans to re-release Space hulk, I think they're making a mistake not allowing FFG to license it.

FFG could have released it with card figures, and a link to GW for anyone that wanted to buy miniature Termies and Genestealers. Win/win for GW. At the very least they'd make money for the SH license, and at best, they'd sell more figures, which in turn might bring in new 40K players.

Hell, I know'd I'd buy a new set, and I have the original and a couple of supplements tucked away somewhere.

Osbad
25-02-2008, 13:07
What I heard was that pre-Green Ronin, the vetting procedure consisted of waving the material under Gav Thorpe's nose and if it smelled right he gave it the thumbs up and if it smelled wrong he ate it. (Or was it the other way around...?)

Whoever let GS Goto near a word processor clearly wasn't listening anyhow!

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 14:33
Could be that GW are working on a re-launch of Space Hulk, to make it a modern day Space Crusade BEFORE selling the license on. Or perhaps they are hoping Hasbro might like to handle that one... And no, this isn't a rumour, this pure, straight out my backside, would be a nice idea if they did speculation.

Repeat, do not pass this off as a Rumour.

But I do wonder what we'll see coming out from FFG....Interesting.

Jedi152
25-02-2008, 14:34
Could be that GW are working on a re-launch of Space Hulk, to make it a modern day Space Crusade. And no, this isn't a rumour, this pure, straight out my backside, would be a nice idea if they did speculation.

Repeat, do not pass this off as a Rumour.
I'm willing to bet that'll appear in a rumour thread within the next 24 hours!

:D

Then someone will appear claiming that you're a bad poster for posting false rumours. It's happened before!

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 14:39
Additionally, the deal will grant FFG the exclusive rights to publish new versions of the classic board and
card games titles published by Games Workshop over the last 25 years.

Thats ALL the board games. Could mean a return of stuff as old as the Gobbo Games, Dark Future and so on....thats a pretty big COULD like, but looks like this is gold for us gamers.

RFT
25-02-2008, 15:15
The way it's written seems to rule out anything involving minatures, so Dark Future would be out - as would Lost Patrol, Bommerz, etc. the most recent games I think they would be able to do would be the wargames I mentioned above and Talisman.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 15:21
The *inclusion* of Miniatures may or may not be ruled out. Could be GW will supply them, but there is nothing to stop them replacing the models with card counters as previously mentioned, with the obvious option of procuring models to replace them. This is something I can well imagine GW would support.

Whether it's practical or not is anyones guess, as I am unware if anyone posting on these boards has sufficient knowledge to comment with any degree of accuracy.

Llew
25-02-2008, 15:44
I have to say that this is actually a good business decision. At first, I too was puzzled why they didn't announce the closure of BI along with this deal, but then it made sense. Announce them together, and you get one piece of news to cheer investors. Announce them separately, then you get 1 cost-cutting measure to please investors, then a second piece of good news as you cash in on your existing IP and throw a bone to the fans.

On balance, the whole BI closure thing coupled with the partnership is a win on many levels. GW is limiting risk, reducing overhead, bringing in some cash flow and giving the fans more support of your products by licensing them to a respected gaming company.

I see this as an excellent move and played well strategically too. If this is the stamp of the new CEO and how he'll handle things, it's promising.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 15:46
Interesting that the Share Price is on the way up as well. Slow and Steady sure, but on the up. 6.00 last time I looked.

dreamwarder
25-02-2008, 16:49
Action taken: Confidence restored.

gj, GW.

Obvious_Ninja
25-02-2008, 17:05
Wow, just saw this! Thrilled to hear...:)

Gazak Blacktoof
25-02-2008, 20:33
as I am unware if anyone posting on these boards has sufficient knowledge to comment with any degree of accuracy.

No idea about "the deal" but certainly the FFG games I've played include plastic models rather than cardboard counters.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
25-02-2008, 20:38
Interesting bit of info there Gazak....

I sincerely hope that GW allow them genuine free reign. I guess there is a difference between having a License to produce them, and being allowed to produce them. This is based off GWs license from New Line and Tolkein Estates, both of which have certain limitations of use.

Perhaps we might see Warhammer Quest make a come back? Would certainly be a top idea. Then again, it's possible the sheer volume of models required might make it less feasible.

And remember, when in business, just because something is possible, doesn't make it financially viable!

Templar-Sun
25-02-2008, 22:31
This is a horrible decision imho. First you create the hype, then you cash in big on the hype then when interest begins to dwindle... THATS when you are supposed to outsource it to another party and let them deal with the headaches... If I were a shareholder I'd be PISSED... As a gamer, however... I'm delighted!


Templar-Sun

Patriarch
25-02-2008, 23:16
By the rationale stated above (no minis, no external IP, no current SG) that suggests the following possibles/impossibles from GW's back catalogue:

Possible:
Battle for Armageddon (& Chaos Attack)
Horus Heresy
Doom of the Eldar
Talisman (& expansions, non WH)
Curse of the Mummy's Tomb (non WH)
Blood Royale (non WH)
Chainsaw Warrior (non WH)
Chaos Marauders
Trolls in the Pantry etc etc
WHFRP
Curse of the Mummy's Tomb (non WH)

Not possible:
Space Hulk (& expansions)
(Advanced) HeroQuest (& expansions)
(Advanced) Space Crusade (& expansions)
Rogue Trooper
Block Mania (& expansions)
Judge Dredd RPG
Dr Who
Dark Future
Stormbringer RPG


P.S. MDG says GW are re-doing Space Hulk! Pass it on!! ;)

Tastyfish
25-02-2008, 23:27
Wonder what this means for the occasional old pdf-rerelease like Armageddon? I was kind of hoping to see Doom of the Eldar and the Heresy game given the same treatment as Armageddon and Mighty Empires.

Certainly good news far as Dark Heresy goes, wonder if they are going to keep with the same original plan (i.e Rogue Trader and Deathwatch sourcebooks later on). On the same note, do we know if they are going to start again from scratch with WFRP or even if they are able to keep the original books?

Coragus
25-02-2008, 23:28
I will now laugh manically as all those people who bought a million copies of Dark Heresy in the hopes of selling them off at a vast profit now see their 'investment' collapse. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :D

Don't be so sure! We have the original edition!

Seriously, this is great news. I, for one, welcome our FFG Overlords.

Bregalad
25-02-2008, 23:35
Additions:

Possible:
Dark Heresy (40k RPG) confirmed
WH RPG confirmed
Talisman confirmed
Fury of Dracula (an old GW board game)-> already released by FFG!

Done:
Space Hulk/Space Crusade -> Have a look at the Doom Tiles, take the online Space Hulk rules plus plastic terminators/Genestealers -> done! Still, no further direct product of that name (so Space Hulk confirmed not possible... under that name).
Heroquest/Warhammer Quest -> Have a look at Descent plus expansions! Perhaps not as good as Advanced Warhammer Quest, but a step in that direction.
Blood Bowl: confirmed as not possible.

Chaplain Nikolai
26-02-2008, 00:31
And suddenly it all makes sense!

Brandir
26-02-2008, 06:56
There are lots more to add such as the following boardgames that GW produced many a year ago:

Cosmic Encounter
Warlock
Warrior Knights
Kings & Things

Search Results | BoardGameGeek (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/search.php3?publisherid=26)

blongbling
26-02-2008, 08:53
as i was saying when BI closed, jsut becasue you dont know what is happening and why, doesnt mean that GW have screwed it up

Bregalad
26-02-2008, 10:39
Upsetting the customer base by announcing the closure of BI WAS "screwing up". Not giving an explanation or an outlook was bad for GW's reputation.
A pro would at least have announced the FFG deal at the same time with the announcment of the closure.

RobC
26-02-2008, 10:41
Upsetting the customer base by announcing the closure of BI WAS "screwing up". Not giving an explanation or an outlook was bad for GW's reputation.
A pro would at least have announced the FFG deal at the same time with the announcment of the closure.As far as I understand it they couldn't have done this because the FFG deal wasn't made until very recently. GW did not make some clandestine deal with FFG before they announced the BI closure.

Gen.Steiner
26-02-2008, 11:02
Don't be so sure! We have the original edition!

Ah, but is it signed? ;)

Mahwell Skel
26-02-2008, 11:18
Not possible:
...
Dark Future
...



Hmm why not? It is a board and counter game with minis not now supported or produced by GW. The descent figs look like a similar scale to the road punks and matchbox cars and stuff ain't hard to find. In fact Car Wars was card counter based. Fingers crossed!

RobC
26-02-2008, 11:39
Talking about Dark Future, bear in mind that it was originally conceived as an RPG. GW's change in direction meant that releasing a new RPG wasn't a likely proposition, so the background was tacked on to the car-racing game instead.

Would FFG consider a Dark Future RPG? Would Marc Gascoigne (creator of the setting) want to be involved seeing as he is leaving GW again?

Gen.Steiner
26-02-2008, 11:53
Let's hope so. :)

Patriarch
26-02-2008, 12:12
Hmm why not? It is a board and counter game with minis not now supported or produced by GW. The descent figs look like a similar scale to the road punks and matchbox cars and stuff ain't hard to find. In fact Car Wars was card counter based. Fingers crossed!

True, but that could apply to any GW old miniatures game (see Space Hulk discussion above) and from what I read this deal excludes miniatures-based games. DF probably lends itself more readily to having "do your own" miniatures (model cars/bikes) as these don't compete directly with anything GW does. However, if models aren't packaged with the games then DF loses a lot of its appeal...who would start DF if they had to use card counters to begin with?

Gen.Steiner
26-02-2008, 12:20
who would start DF if they had to use card counters to begin with?

People who enjoy boardgames? ;)

RobC
26-02-2008, 13:26
As Gen. says, miniatures aren't required. There was a massive hoo-haa when it was announced that Talisman wouldn't use miniatures, some going so far as to suggest that people wouldn't buy the game because of it. Mind-boggling doesn't cover it.

ImhotepMagi
26-02-2008, 13:39
I would gladly buy a game like HeroQuest or SpaceHulk with cardboard counters/standups, especially since I know who I can get miniatures from. And with a little insert in each box, so could anyone who buys it. ;)

Hell, HeroQuest was released in Brazil with cardboard standups instead of minis, so its not like it hasn't been done before. :D

OrlyggJafnakol
26-02-2008, 13:45
The long lamented Heroquest. It was developed with Milton Bradley if I remember correctly, so I doubt GW have the full rights to the game anymore. Perhaps they do... Anyone know on this forum?

I play Heroquest with children in my school (10-11) and they love the game. Several of them have bought their own copies on eBay. I never knew that HQ was released as far a Brazil though!

Mad Doc Grotsnik
26-02-2008, 13:53
This is a horrible decision imho. First you create the hype, then you cash in big on the hype then when interest begins to dwindle... THATS when you are supposed to outsource it to another party and let them deal with the headaches... If I were a shareholder I'd be PISSED... As a gamer, however... I'm delighted!


Templar-Sun

Actually, it makes a lot of sense to have done it now, financially speaking, and as such (and the rising share price would appear to validate this!) make Share Holders happy.

1. You sell off a SUCCESSFUL and in-demand IP. This gives you a massive cash injection (well, I say massive, I would like to point out I have no idea about the actual figures involved).

2. You get to close down a wing of your company which doesn't really fit in to the main part. This has it's inherent savings, which will come back year after year, in a certain sense.

3. The product doesn't go away, you may make a little money on it (this is where my knowledge of Licenses collapses. Is theres a dowry paid, and then maintenance on a per-unit basis? I don't know!) every year.

4. All of this allows the parent company more breathing space, and the option of taking the license back into the fold, where hopefully it will have grown even more. Score, score and score!

And as for announcing the closure of the wing before the sale? It encourages higher and higher sales volumes, making the IP worth that little bit more. Extremely cunning (well, quite cunning) play there from GW!

reds8n
26-02-2008, 15:14
1. You sell off a SUCCESSFUL and in-demand IP. This gives you a massive cash injection (well, I say massive, I would like to point out I have no idea about the actual figures involved).


err

"Fantasy Flight is paying GW $250,000 in cash for the Sabertooth assets. GW said it would take a £0.9m impairment charge relating to the goodwill of Sabertooth as a result of the sale. This non-cash cost will form part of the exceptional restructuring charge in the Games Workshop financial statements for the year ending 1 June 2008.

The Company expects that the total amount of this charge for the current year will be in the range of £2m-£3m, in line with current market expectations.

Fantasy Flight is an established US gaming company that specialises in science fiction (SF) and fantasy based games, and has a similar target audience to Games Workshop. "

Not really a huge cash injection there then eh ?;)



And as for announcing the closure of the wing before the sale? It encourages higher and higher sales volumes, making the IP worth that little bit more. Extremely cunning (well, quite cunning) play there from GW!

Exactly the opposite is true here I'm afraid : as any potential buyer knows that most interested parties will have already bougt the goods they want, thus in fact satisfying ,arket requirements in the short term.

El Mariachi
26-02-2008, 15:37
Excellent news indeed, FFG make some great games. Can anyone hazard a guess as to when we'll be able to buy Dark Heresy again?

Jim
26-02-2008, 16:44
...and in related news...It looks like GW share price is slowly recovering - up 8.5% in the last 10 days, maybe linked to the breaking of this news item???

I'm no expert but I think the two things could be related...

If nothing else I'm glad to see the share price climbing as all the doomsayers on this board recently got me really worried that GW might fold - something none of us want to see.

Jim

Phunting
26-02-2008, 16:52
I have to say that this is actually a good business decision. At first, I too was puzzled why they didn't announce the closure of BI along with this deal, but then it made sense. Announce them together, and you get one piece of news to cheer investors. Announce them separately, then you get 1 cost-cutting measure to please investors, then a second piece of good news as you cash in on your existing IP and throw a bone to the fans.But isn't the bone kinda cancelled out by the fact the fans have just been kicked in the face in the first place?

I agree this is awesome news, but I still think the way it was done was very badly handled.

So, do we know if they are keeping current stock in print then, or will only be producing new or at least adapted versions?

Huw_Dawson
26-02-2008, 17:44
"Fantasy Flight is paying GW $250,000 in cash for the Sabertooth assets. GW said it would take a £0.9m impairment charge relating to the goodwill of Sabertooth as a result of the sale. This non-cash cost will form part of the exceptional restructuring charge in the Games Workshop financial statements for the year ending 1 June 2008.

It might not be a huge cash injection, but that is the Sabertooth assets, which are not that big. The BI stuff is undisclosed at this moment.

- Huw

Templar-Sun
26-02-2008, 20:42
The game plan overall and in general I think is quite wise actually. However, anyone that announces that the wing which produces your new smash hit rpg is closing is crazy. That was a major kick in the nuts to their customer base which is GW's most important asset. "Hey, check this out!" "Whoa, that is the BOMB! I love it!!" "Well great, but I'm sad to say its done and over with"

Thats a logical way to retain customers, not to mention an excellent way to create new ones. No, I think this was schizophrenic at best and poorly handled. Not to mention they skipped a step and that being cashing big on the new smash hit product. Now FFG gets to. But whatever, maybe not as bad as I'm making it out to be. It appears share prices are going up... In the short term anyway... The cold has been cured but not the virus... All I really hope for is FFG really understands what a gem DH is and they crank alot of effort into it.


Templar-Sun

AGC
26-02-2008, 21:40
On that subject, it came as a bit of a surprise to me that contrary to the original BI announcement BI will not be publishing "The Inquistor's Handbook" or "Thousand Thrones" . All the works in progress are now the property of FFG.

This makes me wonder if perhaps what happened was, they tried to sell everyting to FFG (or possibly someone else), the deal fell through so they made the announcement about closing BI and then FFG offered to buy everything so long as it included the works in progress.

That would make the most sense of it, as BI would not deliberately put out a misleading statement.

Darkson
26-02-2008, 22:58
who would start DF if they had to use card counters to begin with?

Me! Hell, we used card counters for trucks and things even when GW were producing DF figs.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
26-02-2008, 23:01
On the subject of Dark Future, all they would have to do is supply you with a variety of weapons.

You then go out and buy up which Toy Cars tickle your fancy, arm them, and then flatten the opposition. Is what a lot of players did anyways!

RobC
27-02-2008, 07:53
On that subject, it came as a bit of a surprise to me that contrary to the original BI announcement BI will not be publishing "The Inquistor's Handbook" or "Thousand Thrones" . All the works in progress are now the property of FFG.Thousand Thrones is already printed, so it seems very unlikely that FFG will want to modify the book in any way. Even reprinting the cover with their logo will be an expensive exercise in branding - best to sell the existing stock as-is and brand future stuff.



This makes me wonder if perhaps what happened was, they tried to sell everyting to FFG (or possibly someone else), the deal fell through so they made the announcement about closing BI and then FFG offered to buy everything so long as it included the works in progress.The whispers I've heard suggest otherwise. BI was genuinely closed, taking the staff by surprise as they had a bestselling RPG (Dark Heresy) on their hands. Not sure how FFG managed to get the licence so quickly but it was certainly open to other companies at that stage (See Chris Pramas's blog).

AGC
27-02-2008, 18:14
Having just gotton round to reading Chris Pramas's post on the Green Ronin website Green Ronin Publishing :: View topic - GR and WFRP/Dark Heresy (http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7187) I have to say I am now back to being completely baffled as to what went on within GW.

None of what we're hearing makes much sense, yet the people at Black Industries still furiously defend their superiors at Games Workshop.

It really is very strange.

t-tauri
27-02-2008, 20:04
Peculiar that they wouldn't negotiate with Green Ronin to try and get a better price, either from Ronin or FFG. It seems as if the sale to FFG was done as a rush job. Does anyone at GW have a clue what they're doing?

Gen.Steiner
27-02-2008, 20:06
Or maybe they'd already negotiated with FFG behind the scenes...?

t-tauri
27-02-2008, 20:08
If I had two groups interested I'd be negotiating with both to raise the price, not doing a deal in a mad dash.

Gen.Steiner
27-02-2008, 20:18
Well, yes, but maybe they need the money (ulp)?

AGC
27-02-2008, 20:30
But then why not sell the Black Library while they're at it?

The rights to all the BL books must be worth something to the various fantasy publishers and would relieve GW of all the associated costs.

If it's GW's policy now to only sell games that heavily use miniatures, why keep it?

Gen.Steiner
27-02-2008, 20:35
Presumably the HH series is selling by the container ship load.

AGC
27-02-2008, 20:39
Out of curiousity:angel:, when is the final book in the series slated for publication?

Bregalad
27-02-2008, 20:49
Having just gotton round to reading Chris Pramas's post on the Green Ronin website Green Ronin Publishing :: View topic - GR and WFRP/Dark Heresy (http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7187) I have to say I am now back to being completely baffled as to what went on within GW.

None of what we're hearing makes much sense, yet the people at Black Industries still furiously defend their superiors at Games Workshop.

It really is very strange.
I can only continue shaking my head at the incompetence of the higher managment. I am speechless! They treat other companies as bad and respectless and erratic as they treat their customers :mad:


Presumably the HH series is selling by the container ship load.
Actually, they have to wait, until the container ship has unloaded the Dark Heresy containers ;)

RobC
27-02-2008, 22:38
But then why not sell the Black Library while they're at it?

The rights to all the BL books must be worth something to the various fantasy publishers and would relieve GW of all the associated costs.

If it's GW's policy now to only sell games that heavily use miniatures, why keep it?Presumably because BLP is making a lot of money from producing novels. Remember that BLP has increased its profits every year since it was founded, and the success of Solaris has seen a massive hike. They'd be daft to sell it.

Then again, I'd have said the same thing about Black Industries...

Phunting
27-02-2008, 22:48
Presumably because BLP is making a lot of money from producing novels. Remember that BLP has increased its profits every year since it was founded, and the success of Solaris has seen a massive hike. They'd be daft to sell it.

Then again, I'd have said the same thing about Black Industries...Whilst I think DH did exceptionally well, they're still not on the same scale as the number of BL novels sold. Novels have a much larger fan base and exist without the inevitable drop off in sales after publication of the first few books.

AGC
28-02-2008, 08:40
Then why let Mike Mason and co. keep their jobs? All the costs of BI (such as they were) continue as all the staff have been transferred to the Black Library, even the website's still up so no savings there.

It's hard to believe that BL was in such dire need of more staff or for that matter that the handful of people that made up BI will be able to generate as much revenue flogging books to waterstones, as they could making award winning RPG's.

As I said before, it really doesn't make sense.

Archibald_TK
28-02-2008, 10:52
I can only continue shaking my head at the incompetence of the higher managment. I am speechless! They treat other companies as bad and respectless and erratic as they treat their customers

Wait a minute before bashing GW, it's not my intend to defend their dubious handling of the whole deal but we probably lack a lot of informations on the issue... The deal with FFG is huge, especially since it allowed GW to sell Sabertooth Games. Green Ronin on the other hand was only interested in the RPG (GW was probably unaware at that time that a german publisher was interested in the board games).

Let's put it that way : If FFG refused to sign the deal unless the RPG licenses were included in it (and if I were the guys at FFG I would consider the inclusion of the RPG licences mandatory), then it would be a no brainer for GW right ? Green Ronin would be out of the competition since they wouldn't be able (and probably not willing) to buy STG.

They could have handled the matter differently by not letting GR in the dark until the last second, not making a ninja deal, not assuring that there was time for a proposal while in reality they were probably in a hurry (or maybe hire someone that would be decent at handling relations with their partners, like they should have done... 10 years ago), but from GW point of view I can understand that they no longer saw Green Ronin as a valid candidate and dealt exclusively with FFG.

In another news, now that I defended GW in a post, tonight flaming cows will be raining from the sky from 6pm to 8pm. Stay tuned for more breaking news.

reds8n
28-02-2008, 12:02
Then why let Mike Mason and co. keep their jobs?



I don't think GW have.
:(

AGC
28-02-2008, 21:28
Mike Mason and Dave Allen were asked several times on the BI forums and they said everybody was just being moved back to BL.

If this has changed or you know otherwise then that would be a big deal.


On the subject of Chris Pramas's statement:-

I read it again and this bit caught my eye, "He also said that things were a bit chaotic over there and that it would take them several months to sort it out"

"...chaotic..." Why? As I understood the situation, all that had happened was BI had been told not to commission any more products and to move the workforce back to BL work when the existing projects were completed. None of which would cause any real disruption let alone "several months".

Anyone have any ideas or inside knowledge about this?

superknijn
28-02-2008, 22:14
I'll just see what they do with WHRP before I make any conclusions. Not that I don't think they're capable, I'm just sceptical by nature.

reds8n
29-02-2008, 01:17
Mike Mason and Dave Allen were asked several times on the BI forums and they said everybody was just being moved back to BL.

If this has changed or you know otherwise then that would be a big deal.





I believe Dave Allen is still employed by GW, but I've heard Mike Mason is gone.

I hope not.


FFG FAQ ! (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/workshop-sabertooth-faq.html).
Sounds like good news so far.

Archibald_TK
29-02-2008, 09:57
EDIT -
The fascinating thing is that I actually managed to miss the fact that news was posted in the previous post... I'll blame my excitement for that one...

FFG has posted a FAQ regarding future publishing plans of GW products : Fantasy Flight Games (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/workshop-sabertooth-faq.html)

Things of interest :
- Warhammer and Dark Heresy RPG will stay under the current game system (don't laugh, some people were fearing that it may go D20)
- All of the BI books that were near completion for both games will be released soon, they expect many new books to follow (apparently the focus will be mainly on DH)
- DH reprints summer 2008
- In addition to old well known board games they seem to hint that they will release new games
- They will increase their staff size in order to deal with these new products without hindering their other ranges. They will try to assimilate some people from STG but things seem different regarding the BI staff. Stephen Horvath, the CEO of Sabertooth has already accepted to join them.

shady
29-02-2008, 13:53
By the rationale stated above (no minis, no external IP, no current SG) that suggests the following possibles/impossibles from GW's back catalogue:

Possible:
Battle for Armageddon (& Chaos Attack)
Horus Heresy
Doom of the Eldar
Talisman (& expansions, non WH)
Curse of the Mummy's Tomb (non WH)
Blood Royale (non WH)
Chainsaw Warrior (non WH)
Chaos Marauders
Trolls in the Pantry etc etc
WHFRP
Curse of the Mummy's Tomb (non WH)

Not possible:
Space Hulk (& expansions)
(Advanced) HeroQuest (& expansions)
(Advanced) Space Crusade (& expansions)
Rogue Trooper
Block Mania (& expansions)
Judge Dredd RPG
Dr Who
Dark Future
Stormbringer RPG


P.S. MDG says GW are re-doing Space Hulk! Pass it on!! ;)

I posted on the FFG forums about this I think. The list of boardgames in the "possibles" is somewhat longer, they have more boardgames in the cupboard than that. I think Armageddon and Horus Heresy would fall into the unlikely (40K IP) but I'd be less sure about Heroquest - Advanced Heroquest was an all-GW game, it's not WH or 40k, and given that most other FFG games involve miniatures of some kind I'd guess that it may fall into the blurry area of what they're allowed to do. Similarly Dark Future, although they've been actively publishing novels for that setting.

Other games not mentioned:

Warrior Knights is already published by FFG, with an expansion (Blood Royale is a kind of sister game to this by the same designer, Derek Carver. Both in their original editions were notorious for being very long games. FFG has substantially redesigned WK in its current edition.).
Fury of Dracula already published by FFG
Apocalypse (excellent game, long out of print. Similar to Nuclear War)
Battlecars
Calamity (designed by Andrew Lloyd Webber)
Dungeonquest (licensed game, similar to Heroquest)
Super Power (similar to Cold War - I have this game and it's not very good, frankly)
Warlock of Firetop Mountain (based on the Fighting Fantasy Gamebook license - another FFG - not sure on what status this would have)

They also published some licensed games (I got the impression Dungeonquest was acquired rather than licensed) including Kings & Things, Quirks, Cosmic Encounter and Railway Rivals. Some of these have been subsequently published by others and I doubt whether they could be sublicensed.

FFG is publishing a new version of Cosmic Encounter (generally regarded as one of the main influences on Magic the Gathering) in Summer 08. Quirks was a co-publication with Eon (who wrote CE) so GW may retain some rights.

Given a choice of what seems likely I'd take Blood Royale, Apocalypse and Quirks.

By the way, both the new editions of Warrior Knights and Fury of Dracula use miniatures, which is why I'd expect some flexibility.

RobC
29-02-2008, 14:04
Remember that Dark Future was originally planned as an RPG. It's possible FFG could resurrect that particular project.

Ghal Maraz
01-03-2008, 11:11
I don't see Battle for Armageddon, Horus Heresy or Doom of the Eldar as unlikely. Actually, I think they are quite plausible.
The licence give FFG the right to publish games within the GW intellectual property, as long as they are not heavily miniature-based.

VetSgtNamaan
01-03-2008, 17:10
I would almost think that GW should contract them to write the codicies for them as well so GW can be strictly focused on doing the minis ;)

Art Is Resistance
01-03-2008, 17:42
I would kill for a Dark Future RPG - the setting was more fun than Cyberpunk!

I still play the game now and again - great fun.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
01-03-2008, 17:47
Sadly, Dark Future is one of the few games I never did get round to playing. I think it disappeared just as I was fully immersing in the hobby.

If I can get my hands on a copy of the rules, can anyone reccomend suitable weapons to bung on to Matchbox Cars? If I can find suitable alternatives, then I really do only need the rules.

reds8n
01-03-2008, 19:05
http://www.specialist-games.com/veriants.asp

You can download them for free here !

AGC
01-03-2008, 19:31
I was about to give you a "thanks" reds8n when I noticed the thanks option isn't there any more.

But thank you anyway, I didn't notice they had put all those games up as well.

reds8n
01-03-2008, 19:52
Funny how you miss things eh !

You're welcome.

Yarick Zan
01-03-2008, 20:22
I happen to live about 10 minutes away from the Fantasy Flight Games headquarters. If you all want I could pop in some time and see what is what. This is very exciting to me because I just got the Dark Heresy book and was kind of disappointed when I heard that Black Industries was shutting down.

I tell you reading this article lifted my spirits:
http://blackindustries.com/?template=BI&content=newslist&newsitem=359


Actually their location is about 5 minutes away from my gaming store that I go to play on Mondays. I think I might actually pop in and find out what is what. I sent them an email asking if they were willing to chat.

AGC
01-03-2008, 20:32
Well that might answer *half* of our questions. The FAQ on the FFG website answered pretty much everything they could. It's really only GW that can answer the controversial questions. Like, "Why was there no open bidding process?"

I suppose you could ask them, "How come you managed to get the rights to publish the most eagerly awaited RPG for a decade?"

I'd say it in those terms too as I suspect if you asked, "GW told everyone else that it would be several months before they looked at any bids for the BI product line, so how come they made the deal with you in a few weeks?" they might not be quite so forthcoming.

Templar Ben
02-03-2008, 14:16
Sadly, Dark Future is one of the few games I never did get round to playing. I think it disappeared just as I was fully immersing in the hobby.

If I can get my hands on a copy of the rules, can anyone recommend suitable weapons to bung on to Matchbox Cars? If I can find suitable alternatives, then I really do only need the rules.

You should also consider Car Wars. It was the original game that GW used to make Battlecars which became Dark Future. Car Wars 5.0 was updated in 2002.

reds8n
03-03-2008, 12:01
Sorry about the thread hijack.

Found this (http://www.fluency.paintedtarget.org/df/) site seems to have record sheets etc and a few bits and bobs of use to anyone who wants to play DF.

AGC
07-03-2008, 20:31
I see that BI has closed all the forums now that FFG has opened it's own.

I suppose that now the deed is done the only thing left to be said is, "I hope they make as good a job of it as Black Industries did."

lorelorn
08-03-2008, 02:07
FFG are looking for staff to take forward the Warhammer and Warhammer 40k roleplaying lines: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/jobs.html