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Snowboard_Soldier
27-02-2008, 23:42
Hi guys

I'm new to Warseer but not to Warhammer. 40k has been my main game for some time and I have recently started playing WFB. I've tried several times to start a WFB army, but have never succeeded beyond a few models, but have now resolved to actually start, and have, eventually, picked Dwarfs, after having already attempted Wood Elves. I know the rules for WFB, just lack a lot of gaming experience with this particular game system.

I've read through many of the other Dwarf army list posts on this forum and have carefully reviewed the replies to them. This knowledge, coupled with what I know myself I'd like to include, has led me to formulate this, my third attempt at a Dwarf army list.

Any justified C&C welcome, but please read all my comments before replying to avoid telling me about things I've already considered, or suggesting stuff I've said I definately do or don't want to do.

Thanks in advance.


Lords
Dwarf Lord 226
- Shieldbearers
- Great Weapon
- Master Rune of Challenege
- Rune of Resistance

This guy was a must-have for me, simply because I love the idea of the shieldbearers, and the model. I do not want to remove that, but the other wargear can be altered if needs be.
The Lord will be joining the Hammerers.

Heroes
Dwarf Thane 125
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Rune of Determination
- Rune of Sanctuary

The Battle Standard Bearer I have determined is pretty much a must, especially with slow running Dwarfs, since if they run they will almost certainly get caught. The specific runes on the banner, as with the runes on anything throughout this army list I pondered over for quite some time, and I am open to suggestions in the Runes department.

Dwarf Runesmith 124
- Great Weapon
- Master Rune of Balance

I added the Runesmith mostly to bolster my anti-magic abilities. I was a little unsure about the need for a third character, so am prepared to drop him if I have to.

The Dwarf Lord will be joining the Hammerers.
Either the Thane will join the Longbeards and the Runesmith will join a unit of Warriors (for his protection as much as to bolster their abilities), or both will join the Longbeard.

Core Units
20 Dwarf Warriors 205
- Shields
- Full Command

20 Dwarf Warriors 205
- Shields
- Full Command

I was a little unsure about taking two squads of these guys. My general idea was to have them supporting the "hard" core of my army - the Hammerers and Longbeards. Either the hard, elite units would take the enemy's charge, and the Warriors would pile in for support, or vice-versa. That was the idea anyway. It also leaves the option for having effectively two fronts - with one unit of warriors and one more elite unit on each one - this would depend a lot on the terrain set-up though.

20 Longbeards 310
- Great Weapons
- Full Command
- Runic Banner with Rune of Stoicism

Together with the Hammerers, these guys form the tough core of the army. I was a little unsure about this unit though because they are so pricey at 310 points, but then the Hammerers and quivalent unit of other elite troops such as Ironbreakers would come to near enough the same, if not more.

10 Quarrellers 120
- Shields

10 Quarrellers 120
- Shields

10 Thunderers 150
- Shields

After reading other threads I concluded that more, smaller units of ranged troops worked better as it provided more flexibility. I left off the rather uneccessary command, and gave them shields for a bit of protection, and to allow them to jump into nearby assaults if desperately needed.
I added a mix of Thunderers and Quarrellers to get the benefits from both (and kinda also because I just wanted both), but with the lack of war machines the alternative is two units of Thunderers and more war machines instead. Thoughts on this much appreciated.

Special Units
20 Hammerers 295
- Full Command
- Runic Standard with Rune of Battle

Lord's bodyguard and tough core of the army. 'Nuff said.

Rare Units
Organ Gun 120

Though I lack experience playing WFB, I have used this thing before and loved it ("Bye bye Dryads. *waves*" - as was the situation). Though I was concerned about the lack of war machines, and wasn't sure if this would be a problem or not. A solution is to drop the Runesmith and/or enact my idea about the Thunderers/Quarrellers above to include either another Organ Gun or a Bolt Thrower (or two) or a Cannon. Again here thoughts are much appreciated.


There you have it. I am fully prepared and expecting to change this list about before it hits the tabletop, and I only have one unit of Warriors so far, so that is not a problem.

I would like to take some Miners, mostly for fun, but lack the points.

Any justified C&C are appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Snowboard_Soldier
27-02-2008, 23:43
P.s. Apologies for the long post and all the comments dividing up the list. Hopefully it is still easy enough to understand.

Dead Man Walking
28-02-2008, 15:01
I like your list, and while I typically wont field a dwarven lord I see that you want it. I tend to find he costs as much as a unit of dwarves and units do more than characters.

You seem to be building a balanced list, that being some shooting and some defencive units. You have a nice balance of both but I would like to see you add in some more lethality. If it doesnt come with a punch you cant afford to field it.

I think you could afford to drop a unit of quarrelers or two. I personally dont like quarrelers, I prefer riflers. The problem with them is they will not hold once they get into combat and against most armies even with 10 shots you only do 1 wound. A single bolt thrower with unit champ will cause far more wounds for far less points.

In fact I think you could afford to drop 1 unit of qaurrelers and add in 2 bolt throwers with unit champs and runes of penetrating. This will vastly improve your damage output. They also take up less table space so you wont have to worry about long lines of dwarves either blocking sight arcs or making it impossible to keep your dwarves tightly packed exposing weaknesses in your line.

Your characters look fine, I tend to stick with heroes as they do all the work that you need. However you will want master rune of grungi which gives a ward save to all dwarves in range of the banner. The best thing you can take is anything that keeps dwarves alive.

I also like the runes that give banners or characters magic resistance. 1 char with a rune makes the entire unit magic resistant. A few of these can replace 1 or 2 runesmiths for a cheap cheap price. You can ignore things like bound items and caskets of souls. If you put some on expensive stuff most players will prefer to hit your more expendable stuff as its easier to get thier magic off. I put 1 or 2 in hammerers units (on a char) as a single hammerer costs almost as much as 2 dwarf warriors. I'd prefer to loose other units than hammerers.

Frep
28-02-2008, 17:19
A rather fun combination is rune of stoicism and master rune of fear in a 20-strong dwarf unit. As a general rule you'll outnumber and auto-break many of the enemies standard infantry blocks

Snowboard_Soldier
28-02-2008, 17:30
@Frep - Use the rune of Stoicism and the Master Rune of - what?

Frep
28-02-2008, 19:17
Crap, I knew I forgot something RATHER important, It's the master rune of Fear.I've amended the post to read properly.

Snowboard_Soldier
28-02-2008, 19:40
You seem to be building a balanced list, that being some shooting and some defencive units. You have a nice balance of both but I would like to see you add in some more lethality. If it doesnt come with a punch you cant afford to field it.


So do you reckon then that I should maybe drop one of the units of basic warriors? Make the runesmith join the remaining one and use the spare points for more war machines, or Miners?



I think you could afford to drop a unit of quarrelers or two. I personally dont like quarrelers, I prefer riflers. The problem with them is they will not hold once they get into combat and against most armies even with 10 shots you only do 1 wound. A single bolt thrower with unit champ will cause far more wounds for far less points.

In fact I think you could afford to drop 1 unit of qaurrelers and add in 2 bolt throwers with unit champs and runes of penetrating. This will vastly improve your damage output. They also take up less table space so you wont have to worry about long lines of dwarves either blocking sight arcs or making it impossible to keep your dwarves tightly packed exposing weaknesses in your line.

Thunderers will break in combat just as easily as Quarrellers, but I see what you were saying about not hitting things. Perhaps two units of 10 or so Thunderers and some Bolt Throwers with Rune of Penetrating might be better than what I currently have?



Your characters look fine, I tend to stick with heroes as they do all the work that you need. However you will want master rune of grungi which gives a ward save to all dwarves in range of the banner. The best thing you can take is anything that keeps dwarves alive.

I also like the runes that give banners or characters magic resistance. 1 char with a rune makes the entire unit magic resistant. A few of these can replace 1 or 2 runesmiths for a cheap cheap price. You can ignore things like bound items and caskets of souls. If you put some on expensive stuff most players will prefer to hit your more expendable stuff as its easier to get thier magic off. I put 1 or 2 in hammerers units (on a char) as a single hammerer costs almost as much as 2 dwarf warriors. I'd prefer to loose other units than hammerers.

Hmm the Master Rune of Grungi I will probably try to fit on somewhere, probably on the Battle Standard.

The Rune of Sanctuary (Magical Resistance (1)) you will note I have already used. Though do you reckon it would be better to add that rune on other unit banners (well, the Hammerers one) and remove the Runesmith?

Dead Man Walking
28-02-2008, 22:59
I wound not remove a runesmith, but adding runes will be the same as adding another runesmith to your army for cheap points.

As for warriors, I like having 3 units of ranked infantry in a balanced list. ANy more is overkill.

Miners only work extremely well in an agressive marching list, otherwise they are just for messing with your opponents artillery. In your list I would go without any miners.

2 thunderers and a bolt thrower would be better than 1 thunderer and 2 crossbowmen.

:skull:

Snowboard_Soldier
28-02-2008, 23:08
2 thunderers and a bolt thrower would be better than 1 thunderer and 2 crossbowmen.

Yeah this seems to be the general concencus now. I think I will change my list about to something like this. Thanks guys.



As for warriors, I like having 3 units of ranked infantry in a balanced list. ANy more is overkill.

Do you view Hammerers and Longbeard units in this too? I presume you do, but some might consider them more elite than standard infantry. I am considering removing the second Warriors unit, but I'll have to think about what to put in instead.



Miners only work extremely well in an agressive marching list, otherwise they are just for messing with your opponents artillery.

Hmm, would that not be useful though? Annoying enemy stationary units like Glade Guard archers or artillery pieces? And the Miners could be used as a line infantry unit if their Underground Advance isn't necessary; kinda dual-role. Though this may be too expensive for what it is and not really worth it?

Violadudester
29-02-2008, 00:45
Great List. Some nitpicky things though:


Heroes
Dwarf Thane 125
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Rune of Determination
- Rune of Sanctuary

If you want to protect your BSB, I'd go with MR of Grungni and a Rune of Preservation; the Rune of Sanctuary is just kind of a waste unless you'll be taking really heavy runes like MR of Vayla or something. Any cheap Banner runes you'll be paying for on your BSB Thane will be better spent on your elite unit's standards. Look at it this way: two wounds and he is dead, you lose his standard. When those runes are placed on your unit of hammerers, it will take 20 wounds to lose the standard. See what I mean?

I agree with what others have said about adding bolt throwers. They are just too good to pass up, especially with a +1 Str. Rune, making them S7 auto-killing chariot hunters.

If you're making ranks with the warriors, I would add another 5 to each unit, as it has been my experience that they will take random fire from 'whatever' and lose their full CR potential. This will be necessary to back up your elite units, ala Longbeards and Hammerers.

What will your formation sizes be on the Hammerers/Longbeards? If its 5x4 I strongly advise against it, as one kill will make them lose their rank. I highly suggest you deploy them in a 6x3, thus it'll only take two kills to lose their rank bonus, and you will get another possible wound out of your expanded frontage.

And again like others have suggested, MR rune of Grungni REALLY helps.

AFoolProofPlan
29-02-2008, 06:13
What will your formation sizes be on the Hammerers/Longbeards? If its 5x4 I strongly advise against it, as one kill will make them lose their rank. I highly suggest you deploy them in a 6x3, thus it'll only take two kills to lose their rank bonus, and you will get another possible wound out of your expanded frontage.

That doesn't make much sense man. 5x4 starts with 3 rank bonus, where 6x3 starts with 2. So even if you lose 1, you still have 2 rank bonus from 5x4. And once you lose 2, 6X3 will be down to 1 rank bonus, as oppose to 2 rank bonus 5x4 will get.

Dead Man Walking
29-02-2008, 12:00
I dont remember a time when I only lost 1 dwarf to shooting. You cant go around dreading the loss of 1 guy and a rank, you just have to grin and bear it.

Snowboard_Soldier
29-02-2008, 23:15
@Violadudester:

Yeah the specific runes, as I said for all runic things in my list, are up for debate. I've been advised from talking to other people about the Master Rune of Grungi, and I'm gonna shift some points about and see what I can come up with to fit it in, as well as other suggestions.

As far as the 5 extra guys in the warriors units, well I'm not sure where I'll get the points from exactly.

Yeah it was gonna be 5x4. As for unit rank sizes, that's something I am going to decide myself as I play. That's not necessarily a Dwarf-specific thing, or a major problem with my army list. Input on this topic is appreciated, and will be considered, but is not really relevant at this moment. Thanks anyway.

@ all:

Thanks for your help guys, keep it coming if you have anything enlightening to say, and thanks for what you've contributed so far. I've been chatting to my manager too and got some suggestions off him too that I am going to consider too.

Dead Man Walking
29-02-2008, 23:33
Yes I count the elite infantry into that count of 3. You could also purchase a small unit of 10 warriors with no upgrades to serve as a counter charge unit. (to strip ranks from the flank.). If you huddle in a corner with everything you will only have room for 3 infantry and your missile weapons anyways. Ideally you get a hill in the corner with infantry on the ground and thunderers above them on hill, artillery between infantry units. Thunderers should get priority over artillery on a hill, so they can shoot in 2 ranks and get rank + defending hill combat resolution bonus.

As for the miners you can field them that way if you want but I tend to find they dont make a massive difference in a balanced or shooty list. In a marching list a unit of 20 coming up behind your enemy is the hammer on the anvil. However they should be fielded smaller in any other list. They tend to show up and your opponent blasts them with thier artillery into oblivion. Archers turn and fire causing a panic test. The worst thing I ever had happen was coming up behind a saurus slaan unit, it turned to face and I charged. He had a stikes first saurus veteran and made my dwarfs run off the table. I tend to avoid miners unless they are in marchy lists and then I cant live without them.

For strategy they work well (table quarters) but for combat they don't. You dont want to place them on your end of the table as they should be charging and never charged. The reason is they dont carry shields so the armor isnt great and they have great weapons and if you dont live to swing you loose. Mid-range threats could still wipe through them as dwarves win in combat resolution.

But some enemies move to fast to come up behind them in the 2nd turn, like brittonians, ogres and lizardmen. In this case you would want to huddle your forces in one corner and use that table side to come onto the table behind thier forces.

Also a good tactic is to have a bolt thrower which has the rune of immolation on it. You huddle in one corner with everything and you place the bolt thrower on the other far end of the table in terrain. This forces your opponent to either ignore it and take the risk that they will get shot down thier flanks and take more rounds of shooting from it or they will have to send something after it which means they cant concentrate on your huddle. Once they charge it and you loose all your dwarves you can blow up the bolt thrower and do lots of magical damage. It usually kills off small scale attackers and seriously injures larger threats. The only defence I have used against this is to make sure the bolt thrower can only shoot at skirmish units. the skirmish unit shields the flank.