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Shamfrit
27-02-2008, 23:54
I understand Enchanted Shield as giving your current save +2, as apposed to a save of, say, 4+ etc (which would be stackable.) However, I'm unable to glean from the rulebook a definite answer to wherever or not, due to it being a shield, it would give an additional +1 save modifier if used in close combat like any other shield (giving it an effective +3 modifier.)

I'm thinking of using it with Warpstone Armour (4+), to give him a save of 2+, and just want to know if it would be 1+ in combat like any other instance (and if not, is it really worth 15 points? But that's another topic altogether.)

Thanks in advance!

Nedar
27-02-2008, 23:59
I think you are talking about the parry bonus? Where having a hand weapon and shield gives you +1 armor save? If you are, the answer is yes. You need only to have a HW/S (Enchanted shield is a shield) to have the parry bonus.

So if you have Warpstone Armor, an Enchanted Shield and a Hand Weapon you would have a 1+ save when fighting to the front in H2H combat. 4+ armor, +2 from shield gives you a 2+, and the +1 for parry gives you a 1+ AS.

You lose parry only when you have a magical weapon (or no shield).

Tili
28-02-2008, 00:02
You lose parry only when you have a magical weapon (or no shield).

Or when you are attacked in the flank or rear.

Oenghus
28-02-2008, 00:09
The +2 bonus from having an enchanted shield includes the +1 from having a shield. So, on an otherwise bare fighter, a shield gives a save of 6+, and an enchanted one gives a 5+. That then stacks with your other armour -- but you can't have a magical shield and magical armor... unless you've got a special rule that states otherwise.

grishnakh99
28-02-2008, 00:49
They're talking about the additional parry bonus of a shield Oenghus. A shield gives a bonus of 6+. If you're infantry in Hand to Hand combat to your front you get an additional +1. So an Infantry model with only a regular shield and no other armour in combat to the front has an AS of 5+. The extra +1 bonus is called the 'parry' bonus.

Oenghus
28-02-2008, 01:04
Yeah, I know that Nedar and Tili are talking parry, but Shamfrit's original post seemed to have as much to do with enchanted vs regular shields as anything else. I should have specified that I was intentionally discounting the HW&SH (or 'parry') bonus. I failed to do so. Sorry.

Shamfrit also mentioned using an enchanted shield in conjunction with warpstone armor and (assuming that such an item might be magical -- I'm not familiar with it) I warned him against trying to mix enchanted shields and magical armor.

Hence my response.

Shamfrit
28-02-2008, 01:07
I'm still non the wiser, lol.

The item set up I'm using is Desolate Blade (Magical Weapon) Enchanted Shield and Warpstone Armour (giving him 2+ save.)

I'm not sure from the above, because it's late and I'm confused (and somewhat drunk,) but would that item set-up also give him the +1 'parry' bonus as you've kindly reminded me the term for it. I know it's only a very small difference as both results fail on anything bar a 1, but it will make a crucial difference once strength modifiers start to come into play.

theunwantedbeing
28-02-2008, 01:14
The desolate blade does not have the rule "hand weapon" so does not confer the hand weapon and sheild bonus.

Shamfrit
28-02-2008, 01:17
The desolate blade does not have the rule "hand weapon" so does not confer the hand weapon and shield bonus.

Well, I certainly didn't think of it like that. So he has a 2+ save, from shooting and combat, thanks, that's what I was looking for to avoid any rules debates in tomorrow night's game ;)

Masque
28-02-2008, 01:32
Well, I certainly didn't think of it like that. So he has a 2+ save, from shooting and combat, thanks, that's what I was looking for to avoid any rules debates in tomorrow night's game ;)

He is also illegally equipped. A character cannot take two items from the Magic Armour category.

kroq'gar
28-02-2008, 02:13
Indeed...

your better off ditching the warpstone armour and getting ward + gw, unlesss you intend to either parry bonus to 1+/2+

Shamfrit
28-02-2008, 07:54
I've always taken that rule as mundane items, as in you can't have two items on the same location, but apparently not, thanks!

xragg
28-02-2008, 14:44
Warpstone armor (4+, reflects), Desolate Blade (+2str), Warpstone Amulet (4+ ward), shield is the setup I am using on my lord. 4 str6 attacks, 3+ armor save that reflects a str4 hit for each save, and a 4+ ward for things that hit harder. Basically the armor is to protect against scrub units that try to wound my lord, while the amulet protects against the rest.

wibble
29-02-2008, 22:56
in the rulebook it doesn't actually say the enchanted shield is a shield. silly point i know, but in the entry it just says 'magic armour'. with things like great weapons etc. it states that they are such, as was mentioned above with a magic weapon not saying it's a hand weapon. surely then the enchanted shield, while called a shield, doesn't mention anything about being a shield in the rules for it. this would mean you don't get the 'parry' bonus for having HW+S (although it works better combined with a magic weapon over a normal shield)

EDIT: actually it calls it the shield in the rules but is that referring to the name or the type of item including extra rules? hmm a tricky one. i've always assumed it wouldn't give the 'parry' bonus but maybe that's just me

mattjgilbert
29-02-2008, 23:16
I think it's safe to assume a shield is a shield (or call a shield a shield) ;)

Hand-weapon + Enchanted Shield is a valid combination for granting the extra +1 save bonus.

Shamfrit
29-02-2008, 23:20
I think it's safe to assume a shield is a shield (or call a shield a shield) ;)

Hand-weapon + Enchanted Shield is a valid combination for granting the extra +1 save bonus.

Not to mention you can't take a mundane shield if you have the Enchanted Shield (although that's based on Army Builder, so it could be a horrible lie!)
which pretty much means it's a Shield for armour purposes.

I wish they'd categorise Magical Weapons more though...but that's another thread entirely.

juample
29-02-2008, 23:51
in the rulebook it doesn't actually say the enchanted shield is a shield. silly point i know, but in the entry it just says 'magic armour'. with things like great weapons etc. it states that they are such, as was mentioned above with a magic weapon not saying it's a hand weapon. surely then the enchanted shield, while called a shield, doesn't mention anything about being a shield in the rules for it. this would mean you don't get the 'parry' bonus for having HW+S (although it works better combined with a magic weapon over a normal shield)

EDIT: actually it calls it the shield in the rules but is that referring to the name or the type of item including extra rules? hmm a tricky one. i've always assumed it wouldn't give the 'parry' bonus but maybe that's just me

Well it is a pity, we will no longer get parry bonus...:(
But we will take the enchanted shield and a mundane shield (and a mundane armoir as long as enchanted say you can combine it) )...:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

It doesn't stay "shield" but it say it confers an armour save of 5+rather than a mundane shield's armour save of 6+.

It is a shield don't complicate on this

superknijn
01-03-2008, 10:26
You know, I would actually allow you to do this. As long as you'd accept that you'll not be able to attack when using this combination, as neither is a weapon.

Urgat
01-03-2008, 11:31
I think it's safe to assume a shield is a shield (or call a shield a shield) ;)

You should go and check the various LM salamander "spouting fire" threads regarding the "flaming" part of it, you'd be amazed at what is safe to be assumed (or not, to that matter).

juample
01-03-2008, 11:39
You know, I would actually allow you to do this. As long as you'd accept that you'll not be able to attack when using this combination, as neither is a weapon.

I will use magic weapon in one hand.
Mundane shield in the oother.
And i will have two armours: one heavy mundane armour and one magic armour (enchanted shield)But remember this is no way allowed as long as Enchanted shied is a shield*

*If it is not a shied i doesnt need a Hand to use it. and i can use it with great weapons.

But with magical and mundane even with 2 mundane shields you are not allowed to equip with or use at the same time them .