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SkawtheFalconer
28-02-2008, 15:31
Hi all,

I have a game coming up against the new Vampire Counts, which will be my first time against them. His army list is probably going to look like this:

Vamp Lord
3 Vamps
3 x 10 ghouls
10 wraiths with banshee
Varghulf / 25 Ghouls
(2K)

As you can see, he's a powergamer. I tend to play fairly standard Wood Elves, with 30 Archers, 2 units glade riders, 2 dryad units, wardancers, etc. I can see my lack of ranks being a big old problem here, and I'm considering drafting in eternal guard to try and make up for it, as well as a Treeman Ancient.

If anyone has any advice for me on how best to go about beating the new Vamps, I'm all ears!

Mabuhay
28-02-2008, 15:38
You could use a Highborn and then have your eternal guard as core troops aswell. Then use treeman instead of the ancient.

Red_Duke
28-02-2008, 15:42
well, wraiths wont cause you too many problems - id be surprised if hes taking a unit of 10 though - thats a crazy amount of points! and i certainly wouldnt take them vs WE... Anyway, Dryads into them, will mince em good.

Varghulf will be a big problem - fast, and will take down your archers/riders without any real problem.

If he's going magic heavy (and the list you post here suggests hes going magic heavy and looking to make big units of ghouls) you need to hit him hard and fast. Lock down his magic phase for the first turn or so, while you do your damnest to target and obliterate one unit at a time.

Vs undead you can generally do ok if you can get into a flank, although you might find the ghouls somewhat harder to deal with than say a ranked unit of skels.

Personally if he takes the above, id cream the wraiths, and then keep the hell out of his way while focussing on 1 unit at a time.

Btw, watch out for the new Vamp BSB w.18" charge! can make a real mess of things...

Treeman will always do well vs vamps, although keeping it out of the way of the banshee is a good idea now that it can hurt them.

Could be worse though, he could have taken some corpse carts and other assorted nastiness rather than the wraiths!

Malorian
28-02-2008, 16:09
Well keep your distance and work him down. This is how I play against tomb kings and it works well.

Target the Varghulf first and then just run around. Consider making your glade guard skirmishing to make them more mobile.

If a unit gets too close charge it with the treeman and smash the vampire (if he's magic heavy he probably won't have much defensive gear.

And don't forget to pray for a miscast...

Emeraldw
28-02-2008, 16:14
That is a tiny army the VC player is using. The wraiths can be murdered by drayds, each zombie unit can be massacred in combat resolution with Eternal guard in front, wardancers in the side. Same thing with tree man and maybe wild riders. Also your going to be throwing lots of arrows at him quickly. The Varg has a T of 6 right? You can bow him down or simply slowly hurt him and finish him using your tree man. Hail of Doom arrow can really really hurt. Taking a branchwraith with cluster of radiants and a Spellsinger can give you 5 dispel dice to work with. Sure you can't stop everything but stopping a few spells is better than none and I would try to abuse treesinging to stop that varg from getting to you easily.

Jack of Blades
28-02-2008, 16:15
^ The Varghulf is T5 AFAIK.

Make sure you don't get stuck in with the Varghulf. That thing is made for holding up units and ripping away at them.
You'll have to gang up on the Wraiths + Banshee. Wild Riders and Dryads should do it.
You can concentrate your shooting on one unit at a time, as this will prevent him from resurrecting the Ghouls. As for actually killing the Varghulf, I don't know.

Your Mum Rang
28-02-2008, 16:40
Bowfire en masse should do it. I'd pump a HoDA into it or the Wraiths early on.

Red_Duke
28-02-2008, 16:51
Remember that badboy regenerates too - so if you've got some fire up your sleeve it would probably help you ;)

Also, watch out for magical movement! if he invariably goes magic heavy, then at least a few vamps will probalby have the danse - not to forget the book...

Thought about treekin perhaps btw? normally i dont rate them all that, but with no heavy cav, they should do reasonably well vs things like ghouls and zombies...

SkawtheFalconer
28-02-2008, 17:18
Thanks for the advice all - as for fire, I've been wracking my brains, but for some reason I can't think of anything with fire in the Wood Elf list. Mercenary wizard anyone? ;)

I would think (and I'm guessing here) that his tactics will be to charge fly all the Vampires into units at once, and if he were to do that he'd certainly make a mess out of most of my stuff. The reason I was therefore thinking the Treeman Ancient was that I'd stick the netlings (?) on him, making it 6s to hit in challenges. It would also reduce anything else that had charged him to a bystander.

I'm also going to go for points denial - classic wood elf tactical fare. Spread my stuff out (units *and* points), hide where possible, generally make it very hard for his super expensive vampires to get their points back. Nick table quarters at the end - with a crazy small army like that, I think table quarters are going to be important.

I like the advice about working on units at a time. If I can destroy a couple before he gets into me from shooting I'll be happy. I hadn't also realised how unpleasent the Varghulf is. Hopefully he'll go for 25 ghouls instead, which he appears to be favouring! I'm not overly scared of the ghouls as they don't wear armour, and dryads and or Wardancers should be able to do a number on them. The Wraiths don't worry me either, as I have enough magical attacks knocking around to see them off.

The magic phase probably will be nasty, but I suppose you have to accept that with Undead. And besides, anything he raises is going to be easier for me to kill than the Vampires, and, therefore, points in the bag!

My main problem at the moment is the unknown element, which is why I'm asking you lot for help. I need to buy the book ASAP, which will help, but this will probably be the first time anyone in my gaming group has seen the new Vamps...

Your Mum Rang
28-02-2008, 19:48
Hiding VS counts = a valid tactic!

IronBrother
28-02-2008, 20:11
rageth's wildfire blades are 10 pts, and count as two hand weapons and are flaming. not necessary against the varghulf, just shoot at the stupid thing. also consider taking some waywatchers or scouting glade guard with that banner that march blocks within 12". dryad and wardancer combinations will be enough to "end" his army.

Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
05-03-2008, 22:29
A Treeman should slaughter a Vargulf in combat, particularly if it's weakened beforehand by HoD and strangleroots etc.

Try using treesinging as much as possible to fight his hard-hitters one at a time.

zak
05-03-2008, 22:44
Get your combat units in combat asap before he raise his units and kill the Varghulf any way you can as you don't have the static CR to trouble it. Then target his Vampires. If he goes magic heavy they will unlikely be unarmoured. If you kill the general then you have the game in the bag.

Jericho
06-03-2008, 00:26
I fail to see why Treekin get such low reviews all the time. WS4 S5 T5 4+ scaly skin and a 5+ spirit ward save, what's not to like? Magical attacks too, for killing anything Ethereal.

I rate them pretty highly, they are one of the more reliable hammer type units for the Wood Elf list since they are so much stronger and tougher than Wild Riders. Obviously the speed is a huge issue, but M5 isn't the end of the world.

Either unit should be reliable for taking down Undead in combat, the Vamps obviously will be a huge problem. Netlings + killing blow (either from the Spear of Twilight or with a Wardancer) might be a good option to take. And on the bright side, all your combat units should be immune to psych which is handy against Undead :D

I think I vote for the engage quickly option here. If you can't shut down magic then you might want to engage sooner rather than later.

mad dog
06-03-2008, 22:47
Treeman will always do well vs vamps, although keeping it out of the way of the banshee is a good idea now that it can hurt them.


Treeman = forest spirit = immune to psychology = immune to banshee howl??

or have I missed something - did they make psych immune units susceptible to the banshee howl now?

The Clairvoyant
06-03-2008, 23:37
yep, anyone can be affected by the banshee scream now.

I don't know if such a thing exists, but if there's a spell that causes you to shoot your own troops, thats the kinda thing you wanna use on a banshee cos undead have terrible Ld characteristics!

And if such a spell doesn't exist, it should cos i think it sounds like a fun spell - rather like the slaanesh spell where your tooled up general ends up blatting everyone in his regiment (actually, no, i don't like that spell cos my vampires have killed more grave guard than enemies in some games :|)

Jericho
07-03-2008, 07:49
There is a Chaos spell that makes you attack the unit you're with, or shoot one if you're not in a unit... I think it's Tzeentch but it might be Slaanesh. I don't play Chaos :D