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View Full Version : What can Ogres do against Wood Elves?



Grom Wronghand
02-03-2008, 09:09
Hi people, I've got a 3000 game of my Ogres vs. my friends Wood Elves soon and I'm looking for tips on how I can beat his army. His army is very fast and combat oriented with good, but not overwhelming missile support. He relies on dryads to make a distraction along with tree singing to maneouver my units into a vulnerable position where he can get multiple flank/rear charges with his dryads and wardancers. Keep in mind he is easily one of the best players in our group and I've never beaten him in almost a year of trying, so any advice wold be greatly appreciated.

My army (roughly, I havn't finished it yet, thats what I'm here for)

Heroes/Lords

Skrag
Butcher w/ Skullmantle
Butcher
Butcher
Bruiser w/ BSB
Tyrant w/ thundermace, heavy armour

Core

3 Ironguts
3 Ironguts
3 Ironguts
3 Ironguts
8 Bulls (I often use this but don't think it''ll be too effective here)

Special

2 Leadbelchers
2 Leadbelchers
3 Yhetees
2 Gorgers

I don't know what his army is exactly, I've never played him in a game as large as this before. I can give you a very rough description however.

Lords/Heroes

A couple of Spellsingers
Waywatcher Lord w/hail of doom
Maybe a beefed up wardancer lord

Core

A whole load of drayd units, probably minimal unit size
A sizable unit of glade guard, maybe two about 12 to 16 strong perhaps
Small unit of Glade Riders, just for the annoyance factor
Eternal guard are a possbility

Special

A mega hefty wardancer unit to be the 'hammer unit' which will do the most killing

Rare

A decent sized unit of waywatchers with the general to scout and blast into my rear end.

Sorry I couldn't give you any more detail of his units. Any help would e appreciated.

ironfather512
02-03-2008, 09:23
i dont not anything about Ogres but i can help you with the WE side of it.

with any incredibly strong WE force like this the best thing to do is:

1) Advance up the board as fast as possible keeping to cover if you can,

2) Protect your flanks,

Small unit ofWild Riders, just for the annoyance factor you are completely right, these will come round you flanks and harras the hell out of you
(also are these glade or wild riders cus wild riders and special not core)

3) Try and draw the glade guard away from the rest of the army, then out of sight of the dreded wardancers Smash them to bits.

not much else i can say.
hope it helps

sam

nickjspencer
02-03-2008, 09:43
Against Wood Elves, I've foud that fielding small units of elite troops plays right into their hands, and you will be taken apart piecemeal. May I recommend if you have them, remove a butcher or 2 (as it seems your opponent's magic isn't all that powerful), or even Skrag, maybe combine soe of the Bull units to 6-man so they can absorb some casualties and still be effective, and get a load of massive (30 or more) Gnoblar units, something that is hard to move easily around, can take loads of casualties from fire-magic without affecting them, and will easily get the +5 CR for ranks, outnumberinig etc. Likewise increase the leadbelcher units, I find they only ever shoot once, so make the onoe volley really count, and remember, in combat, they are as good as bulls (without ironfists) anyway, so can be used as a main unit. Make them into a solid battle line with no gaps, and advance, ogres slowing slightly to keep pace until in charge range. They won't be able to get round you without either the Waywatchers somehow being behind you to start, or smashing into what are now some fairly tough, hard to easily shift units. Hopefully you'll hold (except maybe against Wardancers.....), and then can counter charge in your turn and finish them off. Remember, every single unit lost to WE is a massive blow, whereas a unit of Gnobs to draw them out is worth nothing to you.
Hope this can help you!

Jericho
02-03-2008, 20:53
I play Wood Elves, and although I've never played with or against them beyond 2000 points, I think there's a few basic rules to playing well against them.

Basically, any time my opponents try to get cute and play it coy, I usually massacre them. Wood Elves are the army that wins by being subtle and tricksy, stuff like Ogres and Bretonnians win by charging up the middle and beating your face in. If you don't move decisively, then you get whittled down by shooting and surrounded. If your opponent gets more than 2 rounds of short range bowfire, he's gonna do a ton of damage. Close the gap as fast as possible.

I also agree with the MSU technique working poorly against Wood Elves. Armies with poor Leadership have to be careful about this technique because you can panic pretty easily when a unit gets wiped out within 6" of friendly models. Leadbelchers are also a bit iffy against Wood Elves because so many units are skirmishers, have ward saves, lurk in forests, or some combination of the above. You'll have a really hard time hitting, and most units worth shooting at will always get a chance to save. Try blasting fast cav if you get the chance, they will go down MUCH faster than Dryads or the likes.

Aside from all that, try to limit the possible Scout locations as much as you can. If you give him a place to hide, he'll slow you down and cause you problems. If you have to place a unit of Bulls or something in a forest, then do it. It's better to have one unit moving slowly than having ALL your units moving slowly due to marchblockers. Yhetees might be best suited for this role because they can move through terrain better than most units.

Anyway I'm surprised to see your opponent not using Treekin or Wild Riders. I think they are fantastic. Treekin would eat your Ogres alive because they have higher WS, S, T, Ld, armor and a ward save to boot. Mmm... Treekin... I love 'em :D

TheMav80
02-03-2008, 20:56
I think I might drop the leadbelchers and replace them with another unit of yhetees. My Leadbelchers never seem to do much to my friends WE. They can protect your flank from Fast Cavalry reasonably well, but against all those other skirmishing units they won't do much. Another unit of yhetees should be able to protect against that fast cav and do a pretty good job against anything else. Strength 5, ignore terrain, and they count as having magic weapons so they won't get their ward.

I do think it might work better if you split your Bulls up. You will probably need them to screen your more expensive and killy Iron Guts.

Skrag. I love Skrag. It doesn't look like he will have much in his army that can deal with him. One thing, make sure to get him into combat and killing stuff as fast as possible. Don't get him stuck against something like treekin or a treeman. Single wound models so he can pump himself and his gorgers up. I will put Toothcracker on him as soon as possible. Not much can hurt toughness 7. Plus he will be stubborn Ld 9, so you can send him into combat on his own and not have to worry about him fleeing.

Now if you are going to take Skrag, I think you should take more gorgers. You don't seem to be using your Rare slots at all anyway. So you could just take a regular slaughtermaster and put your two gorgers in your rare slots.

Some Trappers might be a good idea if you have any. I have not tried them out yet, but they seem like they could help out against WE. You could be able to take away good scouting spots from their Waywatchers at least.

Strategy wise:
Your friends army is pretty similar to the one I play against. Though yours seems to have more magic and no Treeman. We've only played to 2000 with these armies so my experience could vary.

Dryads:
One good thing about fighting these with Ogres...they don't get a rank bonus either! So it will be all about who kills the most. The bad thing is (this is what my friend does) he can just sit there in a forest and dare you to charge him. It will probably take a buffed up unit of Ironguts to do it. Or, alternativley, some yhetees. Or both.

Glade Guard:
I try to rush forwards as fast as I can to get in his face. The threat of Gorgers coming in right behind him is always nice. I've found that if I hang back too much I just get shot to pieces. Braingobbler, Bonecruncher, and the Bangstick.

Glade Riders:
Using your list you can guard against them with your Leadbelchers. Like i said before, i'm not a big fan of them. especially against all those skirmishers. So I would use Yhetees to try and keep them away. Again, Braingobbler, Bonecruncher, and Bangstick.

Wardancers:
Ahhg! The bane of my existence! Whatever you do, don't let them get the charge on you. If you can charge them, you stand a pretty good chance. They can't flee from you so that is good. And they will only be strength 3.

Waywatchers:
These guys aren't all the special against ogres, imo. Their Lethal Shot doesn't do anything for them. They will need at least 5s to wound and they don't normally come in very large unit sizes. Target these guys with your Braingoblers, Bonecrunchers, and bangstick first. Use your Butcher with the Skullmantle to hit them first for the -1 leadership. Don't try to charge them with anything but yhetees. You'll just get stuck in some woods forever.

-----------

That is all I can think of for now. I've only played, maybe 10 games with my OK so far. Won for the first time against those pesky WE Friday night running a Skrag list. 1 out of 4 so far. It does make it a little easier when he has trouble stopping most of my magic. That Treeman is still rough to deal with though.

GodHead
03-03-2008, 00:44
A unit to watch out for is Treekin. They are better than any Ogre in every way that it is possible to be better. Even if you get an impact hit charge with an equal number of Ironguts, expect to lose the combat. The ward save and S5/T5 really mashes up Ogres like nothing. Go in with a character or good Gut Magic (regen if possible), or don't go at all.

Mercules
03-03-2008, 14:05
I am not to sure about Skrag. I am fairly certain he will get baited into a charge into woods and just end up stuck because of his huge base. There is almost a sixth of your points. Gorgers are great for coming in behind lines, but they are also best at war machine hunting or distractions. They will cause a distraction, but won't have any Warmachine crews to eat.

Thundermace is an interesting choice. What is the thought with that? Str 4 hits that will ignore the ward saves? Against a lot of small based 2+ wound or 2+ AS models it might be stronger. You might be better off with one of the other weapons and taking your 5 attacks. Siegebreaker doesn't look too great against any elves so.... *sigh* Tenderizer? The best armor a WE list has is 3+ Tenderizer gives you Str 7 which eliminates the armor save and is magical so no ward save. Str 7 is going to wound even the Treeman Ancient on a 3+ and you can use all 5 attacks instead of needing to roll a 6 on one attack should he go with the Annoyance of Treeman.

I would be tempted to drop Skrag for a normal Slaughtermaster. You can then give him a magical weapon for the point savings. Skrag's issue is going to be that his weapons are not magical and will offer Ward saves and he IS going to end up in CC.

I would also be tempted to loose the Leadbelchers for another unit of Yhetees. Then if you have any choice in terrain on the board I'd try to get Impassible or Very Difficult Terrain done on the board that will block LoS and give your Yhetee something to go through that isn't woods.

Scraplauncher might actually be useful although it is going to allow Ward Saves. Str 3 big template could smash a lot of Elves in one shot if you can get it to land correctly. If anyone decides to come deal with it they get the business end of a Rhinox. Then again it counts as a chariot and I am unsure on the rules for treesinging a woods up into a chariot and then moving the chariot.

Is your BSB carrying a magical standard? If not I'd consider giving him a cheap magical weapon just to have one more thing that cuts through ward saves. Then with your Bonecrunchers you might be able to chew up the Dryads you are expecting.

Something tells me it is going to be a tough fight. Good luck. :)

Krootman
03-03-2008, 14:10
led belchers will really put a kink in his plans take units of 3 and hang back behind your line of bulls and ironguts and dare him to play ring around the orger and watch what happens.

When you set up put ur gobos in your first wave and just move them foward and see what happenes, then your bulls and iron guts in your 2nd wave followed by your led belchers. If he takes a treeman take a hunter or tyrant and you shouldn't have a problem killing it.

CarlostheCraven
04-03-2008, 04:37
Hi

Skrag is simply not needed in this list. Downgrade him to a slaughtermaster at the very least.

The answer to the wood elves if you are playing ogres is to drag net their entire army with units of bulls and iron guts. Everything else is not strictly necessary. This will prevent them from flanking you easily.

Buy cheap magic weapons for your characters to deal with the dryads.

The tenderizer on a tyrant will give you the edge against treemen/kin. If you can get of +1 strength on the tyrant, str 8 will allow you to wound on 2+ VS treemen.

As for special and rare choices, yhetees are the most useful thing available, although they should be target #1 for a compitent wood elf player. The rare slots... are not that useful, although three lone maneaters protecting your backfield with cathayan longswords and heavy armour would help counter any elves from slipping around to your rear, and give you something to deal with the waywatchers.

Cheers,
Carlos the Craven