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View Full Version : Thoughts on the new VC Zombie dragon?



Moose_MCA
04-03-2008, 01:43
With the drop in Toughness will this guy be any good? I know... I know there is a boost to WS and A but will that be enough?

What roles are you planning to put it in? And what about the Winged Nightmare instead?


I'm really struggling with this one... Thanks!

Admiral Samuel Eden
04-03-2008, 07:27
I don't think zombie dragons are worth it, Vampires are good enough without the damn thing and it model is hideous.

Jack of Blades
04-03-2008, 08:54
Honestly... you're getting a big monster mount to negate ranks. Anything above negating ranks is to me, just an expensive bonus. I prefer the Abyssal Terror, but as I'm not hell-bent in spending my points in the most efficient way, I'll still go with the ZD.

Red_Duke
04-03-2008, 09:03
Hmm, well i think it all depends on whats shooting it as to how bad the drop in toughness is - for a warmachine it wont make too much of a difference, but it does make it quite vulnerable to things like crossbows, and WE bows, which isnt so great really... Also, in combat it almost makes it a no brainer to attack the mount rather than the vamp, as the vamp is likely to have armour too.

Personally i prefer my characters in units over riding solo on big mounts - while the flanking opportunities are substantial, i think its often outweighed by the benefit a vampire adds to a unit.

kroq'gar
04-03-2008, 09:06
isnt it still -1 to hit though?

UltimateNagash
04-03-2008, 18:30
When in CC...

praesto
05-03-2008, 00:06
Well, if you are going to mount him on a zombie dragon, give him the walking death bloodline for +1 CR. Now if you can get that BSB vampire on hellsteed/flying with warbanner to charge along with your vampire lord on the zombie dragon....+3 static CR plus whatever your BSB vampire, vampire lord and zombie dragon manage to do of damage output. Nastii!

Spirit
05-03-2008, 00:35
Ouch, i hadn't noticed it was T5..

For me thats gonna hurt bad, shootings going to kill it for sure now, ok ws6 makes it good, 3s then 2s to kill in combat, but you can only give it one wound back with each IoN, so i htink they will be too easy to kill now.

dzungia
05-03-2008, 09:15
If I go to battle with a zombie dragon, it is for sure that the other heroes will be either scouting, flying or using talisman of lychni. So that, there should not be heavy shooting from the enemy... Zombie dragon is more than a unit, it determines also the structure of the rest of the army as well. The unlife of our lord depends on the survival of that creature :)

Jack of Blades
05-03-2008, 11:02
Well, if you are going to mount him on a zombie dragon, give him the walking death bloodline for +1 CR. Now if you can get that BSB vampire on hellsteed/flying with warbanner to charge along with your vampire lord on the zombie dragon....+3 static CR plus whatever your BSB vampire, vampire lord and zombie dragon manage to do of damage output. Nastii!

For the ~1000 points required to do that, I think your opponent can come up with equally nasty ways of taking care of that :P

Shooting isn't going to be that bad imo. Accompany your Dragonlord with some Fell Bats (by that, I mean charge the same unit) and have 1-2 other Fell Bat units to take care of cannons and such.

praesto
05-03-2008, 23:34
For the ~1000 points required to do that, I think your opponent can come up with equally nasty ways of taking care of that :P

Shooting isn't going to be that bad imo. Accompany your Dragonlord with some Fell Bats (by that, I mean charge the same unit) and have 1-2 other Fell Bat units to take care of cannons and such.

Well, I can't include that many fell bat units. I need at least two slots for grave guards and black knights, maybe a third for a second black knight unit.

Darkangeldentist
05-03-2008, 23:59
I'd really like to try the new zombie dragon. The change in WS and A makes all the difference. Combined with the power of a vampire lord gives you a unit that will quite reliably beat fullly ranked up regiments. Before you'd be relying on the vampire alone but now the dragon will quite consistantly add 2-3 or more kills each round even against tough units like saurus.

Against shooting I don't see the drop in T being as bad as all that since the most important thing is the number of wounds. He still has more than enough to weather it for a couple of turns. Add in the fact you can heal these wounds and I think anyone would have admit that he's a really tough unit to kill with shooting. In combat you need to hit him 5's for all but the most skilled combat units.

One more reason I think the drop in toughness is ok comes from the fact it's one of the cheapest dragons available to any army. (Okay so the Vampire will cost an arm and a leg leaving you with a very expensive lord but the actual dragon is pretty cheap.)

Spirit
06-03-2008, 00:41
And the 250 point dragon takes up a hero choice, that you would spend 200 of on a tooled vamp anyway, so your only losing 50 points and a magic level, not too bad really, if you have the vampire AND the dragon causing terror, is it 2 checks?

Moose_MCA
06-03-2008, 01:30
This is really helpful everyone... Thanks!

Rommel
06-03-2008, 02:01
And the 250 point dragon takes up a hero choice, that you would spend 200 of on a tooled vamp anyway, so your only losing 50 points and a magic level, not too bad really, if you have the vampire AND the dragon causing terror, is it 2 checks?

Any unit of troops only ever takes one terror test in a battle.

I would prefer Zombie dragon if i had to mount my general on something. HE has many wounds, which you can heal and this means less chances to let your lord with autohit lance unmounted during combat and -1 to hit it really useful against
other powerful CC characters. The only problem for me is that it is Large target and you are going to have a very difficult time when facing shooting armies.

praesto
06-03-2008, 18:29
I thought the zombie dragon had lost 1 toughness and 1 wound also?

madbomber23
06-03-2008, 20:45
Ha, fools. It's not as good as the High Elf dragon! The Star Dragon is killamazin!

adsVampire
06-03-2008, 21:32
Here's my ZD and rider:

Vampire Lord - lvl 3, Red Fury, Eternal Hatred, Walking Death, Crown of the Damned, Flayed Hauberk, Hellfire Spike ... riding a Zombie Dragon.

The Lord has Hatred thanks to Eternal Hatred (and thus give it to the dragon as well!), gets an extra attack per unsaved wound inflicted (potential 8 wounds ... 16+ against flamable targets), and provides +1 CR. He has a 2+ armor save, 4+ ward save and magical flaming attacks.

I've tried this combo in a few games and it is brutal. It just runs over almost everything in its path (kills a treeman on average in a single round). Just don't go against HEs with dragon armor or anything that is immune to flaming attacks. Its the only dragon rider I know that can charge ranked infantry to the front and probably break in the first round (unless they have a unit champ).

praesto
06-03-2008, 21:46
Hmm, are you sure about the ternal hatred working on the dragon? That's damn nasty, but I kinda doubt it is so.

Edit: I just looked up the character rules in my rulebook, and you are right, hatred does transfer to the characters mount. DAMN!..Evil!

Spirit
06-03-2008, 22:18
No i dont think that would work, hatred is for the vampire, not his mount.

The rule states "The VAMPIRE hates..."

And praesto, it seems you are right, it had 6 wounds, WS 3 4A and T6, not it has 5 wounds, WS 6, 5A and T5...

I dont like it, even if it is only 250 points.

praesto
06-03-2008, 22:34
I doubt any item states that: ''The bearer and his mount hates..'', so I think it basically makes him subject to the hatred rule. Even though the items which grant your character such rules do not mention mounts, I think it still applies to both the character and his/her mount.

If the character is subject to the hatred rule, then so is his mount. That's what I can gather from the rulebook.

Malorian
06-03-2008, 22:39
It doesn't say that anywhere in the rule book so you don't do it.

It states that frenzy effects both, but it doesn't say it for this.

You don't assume things, you can only do what is says you CAN do.

praesto
06-03-2008, 23:09
Are you saying that the item specifically has to say: The character is subject to xxxxx before this rule:

''Immunity to psychology, panic, hatred, frenzy, stubborn, unbreakable. If either the rider or the steed is subject to any of these rules, the whole combined model is. This means that all the part of the model (a monstrous mount, or the crew and steeds pulling a chariot) are affected by this rule'' - applies?

If that is not what you're trying to say, then please clarify. I am not certain on this matter.

''It doesn't say that anywhere in the rule book so you don't do it'' simply doesn't make much sense:S

Spirit
07-03-2008, 21:34
Which page are you looking at?

Latro
07-03-2008, 21:48
Which page are you looking at?

79 ... is the new number of the beast


:cool:

Dark_Mage99
07-03-2008, 21:50
That is awesome!

Cragspyder
07-03-2008, 22:01
If you caught my whining in the General forum earlier this week, I have a player at my local store that is now running Dreadlance, the 3+ ward vs. shooting item and Red Fury (and I think a casting power bloodline, who knows why) on a Zombie Dragon.

So that is about 11-12 nearly guarenteed kills on the first round, something like 7-8 if there somehow is a second round.

Spirit
08-03-2008, 00:05
Wanna know something funny?..

Blood knights, frenzy, 3 attacks each, hatred.

With their FRENZIED HATING horses with 2s4 attacks each.

Thats a laugh.

Moose_MCA
09-03-2008, 17:49
wait... so the wristbands of black gold work on the zombie dragon too?


Vampire Lord
-on Zombie Dragon
-w/ red fury
-avatar of death
-dreadlance
-wristbands of black gold


....oh yummy!

Oberon
09-03-2008, 18:00
No, they work for "the wearer". It is still nice way to feel safe(/-ER) against cannons and all, but the mount is not.
Still a nice hitty lord :)

Jack of Blades
09-03-2008, 18:12
There's only one thing I just don't understand about that Lord. Why not save in on some points and remove Avatar of Death? it's not really going to do much for you, to have a 4+ save. Or, give him Walking Death?