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Dragonknight31
05-03-2008, 21:39
The new book is out and the Undead are setting up there TACTICA on how to take over the world.

How will the forces of good stop them? I am mostly interested in Empire since that is what I play, but I am sure others will want to know.

Buckero0
05-03-2008, 21:44
The new book is out and the Undead are setting up there TACTICA on how to take over the world.

How will the forces of good stop them? I am mostly interested in Empire since that is what I play, but I am sure others will want to know.

About the same way they've been doing it for the past 14 months. Archlector on a war alter with VHS. Decent magic defense/offense. Lots of shooting and a little luck with the dice (not failing leadership tests, etc.)

fubukii
05-03-2008, 22:19
steam tanks for the win take two if you want to be that guy, ram both into the generals unit for 10 d3 str 6 impact hits after shooting them with your hand guns and cannons. game over

Spirit
05-03-2008, 23:00
I played a steam tank in 1500 points, i had no way of hurting it, so i threw zombies into it for 5 turns, stopping 2 in this way or using a frostblade to instgib it are both entirely possible with 2k points.

On the other hand, if you can stop the zombies getting you, there isn't anything short of a tooled up blood knight unit that will scrape it.

fubukii
06-03-2008, 15:21
True but since the stank moves 15 inches and zombies move 8 there shouldnt be a huge problem :)

neXus6
06-03-2008, 15:31
Except for the whole, raise unit, try to vanhels unit into combat 5 times in 1 phase thing. :p

Dragonknight31
06-03-2008, 15:44
Do VC characters have to alway except challenges like before?

I like to use Van Holstroms Spectrum on them. I switches all characteristices when in challenges.

Oberon
06-03-2008, 15:45
War altar, 2 2lvl light mages (one with rod, the other with scrolls), captasus with casket of sorcery, stanks for rare and at least one mortar+whatever you like from special&core should do fine. With those heroes you should be able to shut down his magic phase very well ( I had it done to me, it wasn't too fun :P ), and as discussed stanks are nice against VC (if you try not to let them tarpit you. No one really takes frostblade for his general...). Mortars and hellstorms are horrific when they hit those zombies/skellies..

EDIT:
@dragonknight: no they don't,and VHS does not change all characteristics, but those that matter yes :/

Emeraldw
06-03-2008, 20:19
A good magic defense and a way to shut down his heavy hitters and your on your way to a win. Combat resolution can really hurt vampire players as their basic units are not that good and they need 4 core now, I believe. Every zombie unit they summon you get 50 VP's for killing so that can add up quick.

A friend of mine said shooting wasn't the way to go and in a way I agree but having solid shooting against the Varghaulf is good, and if your have guns then you can actually potentially hurt those blood knights and black knights. Every wound you do to something expensive is more he has to use his magic to raise back.

PeG
06-03-2008, 22:16
When using a stank remember that also a unit of grave guards with great weapons WS 7 (from magi item) and ASF (from corpse cart or spell) can really do damage to the stank. Also don tuse your scrolls in turn 1 and 2 if you can avoid it. They will be a lot more useful from turn 3 when close combat has started for real and IoN and other VC spells really shine with healing, extra movement, ASF etc

Goldenwolf
07-03-2008, 00:32
Be careful with Stanks. They can be great, but as pointed out, units w/Great Weapons can hurt them, a unit of Black Knights and Blood Knights can hurt them as well.

Certain tooled up VC Characters will shred them, so combine that with a Cav unit and smashy smashy Stank is trashy.

Against VC, banners that give combat Res bonuses, and magic weapons have done me well, but again they now have a new better magic phase so be careful. The last game I played as VC, I ended the game against the Empire with 800 more points than I started with(3000 to 3800), as the War Altar had an unfortunate incidenton Turn 2

fubukii
07-03-2008, 03:06
Actually you dont have to worry about ASF units with great weapons, as the tanks impact hits strike before the unit regardless of ASF

Johnnyfrej
07-03-2008, 06:10
I say blast the the bloody Vampire during the first turn with a Great Cannon. Unless he is the one with the +4 ward save most likely he is out for the Count (lol play on words :p).

Other than that I'd say a Steam Tank would work, but I wouldn't rush forward with it as it can be seperated from the rest of your army. I'd roll for 4-5 steam points a turn. Use two to fire the cannon and the rest on moving forward.

Another great anti-undead unit for Empire are Flagellants. They can keep a large unit of 20+ zombies tied up indefinately.

Nobody has mentioned this but using Steam Tanks and a War Alter of Sigmar would be devestating. Not only can you heal up to 9 wounds on the Steam Tank, you can use Soulfire on the Vampire Lord. D6 Str5 wounds with no armor save will mincemeat him if he is the caster Vampire.

-Private Jon

HellRaid
07-03-2008, 14:42
I say blast the the bloody Vampire during the first turn with a Great Cannon. Unless he is the one with the +4 ward save most likely he is out for the Count (lol play on words :p).

Other than that I'd say a Steam Tank would work, but I wouldn't rush forward with it as it can be seperated from the rest of your army. I'd roll for 4-5 steam points a turn. Use two to fire the cannon and the rest on moving forward.

Another great anti-undead unit for Empire are Flagellants. They can keep a large unit of 20+ zombies tied up indefinately.

Nobody has mentioned this but using Steam Tanks and a War Alter of Sigmar would be devestating. Not only can you heal up to 9 wounds on the Steam Tank, you can use Soulfire on the Vampire Lord. D6 Str5 wounds with no armor save will mincemeat him if he is the caster Vampire.

-Private Jon

My main opponent plays with this exact same list. It's very difficult to beat, but most VC players *should* have an ace up their sleeve (personally, I use the Lore of Metal with my caster VC lord, which works wonders against this setup).

Lore of Light is a must against the VC, and you could even think about taking the Ring of Valons with the Lore of Light too (in case you roll a 6 for it's spell :P).

Incidentally though, you can't heal steam tanks. They're war machines, and the healing spells in the rulebook specifically don't allow their use on war machines. The Priest healing bound spell might work though, I'm not sure.


And lastly, keeping a unit of 20+ zombies tied up for the game with your Flagellants is one thing - but personally I'd be more happy that I managed to tie up your Flagellants with my zombies for the whole game, so that my harder units can actually fight without getting stuck :P

Emeraldw
07-03-2008, 15:18
How about a hellblaster volley gun? Thats alot of hits against units with very low T.

Anardakil
07-03-2008, 18:29
Casket of Sorcery, Lore of light, flagellants and Warrior Priests casting the unbreakable prayer. Nuff said xD

Firebreather
07-03-2008, 23:14
It could be just me, but it seems as though the Empire is as well equipped an army as any out there to meet the Vampire Counts head on. That is, with the appropriate list, of course:)

It seems to me that to effectively be able to deal with what a typical VC army, an Empire army has to take the best of the best their army list has to offer. An Arch Lector, as has been said, is almost a must-have it seems. Good enough, an Arch Lector riding out to fight against the forces of undeath just seems right anyway.

As has also been said, Steam Tanks can prove very troublesome to a VC player. Troublesome at worst, horrifying at best that is. The VC's it seems largely have a difficult time doing anything about it in a timely manner, and if left alone well....well we all know what a Steam Cannon can do if left to it's own devices without any points being taken off it asap.

Another thing I really like for most of my Empire lists, not just ones geared towards taking on the undead, is a Captain mounted on a Pegasus with Aldred's Casket of Sorcery. It can play havoc with enemy spellcasting, and is well worth the relatively small investment.

Okay, the more I go on, the more I realize I'm probably repeating a lot of the stuff other posters here have already said, so I suppose I'll stop where I'm at. If anything, think of this as simply another vote, at the very least for the 3 units/characters I've mentioned above.

Edit: A full read of the thread reveals that anything I may have had to offer has already been said, and most likely in a better fashion. Oh well, the Empire is a great army for taking on VCs imho, so good luck and have fun!

Spirit
07-03-2008, 23:32
True but since the stank moves 15 inches and zombies move 8 there shouldnt be a huge problem :)

Yes, but i solve that problem by NOT BUYING zombies any more. S2 T2 WS1. 4 points or not id rather have skellies, the zombies are to be raised, and thrown into your steam tank, with 30 models a turn into it for good measure.

As for flagellants, blood knights, or properly tooled grave guard with a proper hitty vampire will eat them in a couple of turns no bother. And PLEASE throw them into my zombies i beg you!

Spirit
07-03-2008, 23:33
I say blast the the bloody Vampire during the first turn with a Great Cannon. Unless he is the one with the +4 ward save most likely he is out for the Count (lol play on words :p).

-Private Jon

I however put my vamp in a unit, and have award save, casty or not, so thats a 2+ lookout sir and a 4+ / 5+ ward. Good luck with that.

txamil
07-03-2008, 23:40
Gunline. I know that answer id going to **** people off, but focusing casualties in one unit/model is the key to beating VCs. Gunlines are the best way to do that.

Leogun_91
07-03-2008, 23:46
I however put my vamp in a unit, and have award save, casty or not, so thats a 2+ lookout sir and a 4+ / 5+ ward. Good luck with that.

And thatīs were the longrifles comes in handy.

Firebreather
07-03-2008, 23:46
Hey, there's a chance of it happening, Spirit, you've got to admit;) Even if it happens to be pretty miniscule. Of course, if you have luck that's similar to mine, if the cannonball hit and even if I had the look out, sir role and a nice Ward save, I might as well just remove him without touching any dice. Whenever I feel something's safe in my army, fate decides to prove me wrong and makes me fail every single important role.

Apparently, I'm not meant to have characters that survive from battle to battle. Fortunately for me, good Skaven names are oh-so easy to come up with, and sound cool no matter how simple they are. And there's always more where they came from...

Oh yeah, and my point. Some of us out there can't depend on Ward saves to save our lives, or rather our characters lives, especially when it matters most. Lady Luck is a...very not nice woman sometimes. No matter the Ward save or whatever type of protection you've got going on, I've learned that absolutely nothing's a safe bet in this game. Which is, of course, a huge part of the fun, really. The Vamp Lord, though well protected, isn't invulnerable by any means. Just go read Varath-Lord Imapler's thread in the fantasy general discussion thread. He managed to splat a Vamp Lord general first turn with a lucky(or skilled, I dunno) shot from a Grudge Thrower on Turn 1. Ouch.

Akuma
07-03-2008, 23:47
In short ...

War altar - i would equip with vhs + sword of fate rather then mace of hellstrum but that is just my taste ( usualy enemy has one character able to deal with altar and with sword of fate he will keep him far away :D )

Cannons - for black coach , warghulf , blood knights ....

Flagants - for all core and special infantry he can throw at you ...

Steam Tank - All core infantry will get owned by this toy + it is another cannon...

and then it comes the not so obvious ...

Basic infantry - swordsman ... will own with unbrakable cast on them - ...

Pegasi Capitan with Full plate and Ench Shild and casket can give any vampire a run for the hills

I played new VC several times and each game was easy ( 2 diffrent players ) now VC players seam to concentrate on shiny expensive units rather then going meat horde aproch ...

Firebreather
07-03-2008, 23:58
They're concentrating on those for now, Akuma...but I have a feeling once the novelty of pretty new models wears off, you'll be seeing some altogether more nasty VC armies. Well, I'd think anyway. Congrats on sending them packing none the less!

Conotor
08-03-2008, 02:47
Take 3 great cannons and wait for his general to fail a look out sir tests.

Goldenwolf
08-03-2008, 04:12
Fubikil,

When defending EVERY opponent auto hits as the Stank has no defense. So when you attack you go first, when they attack they go first. It's something that has led me to sacrifice several Zombie/Skellie units so I can get the follow up charge.

Mortars and Volley Guns are very depressing as the VC player, but again you need to have magic defense, as even 6 zombies can ******* with Empire crews, Dwarves not so much.

A Gunline will hurt, but if you don't have the magic defense, he just raises that many, or raises zombies in front of your units.

WillFightForFood
08-03-2008, 16:34
Seal of destruction, Casket of Sorcery, Scroll caddies.

One thing I haven't noticed in here is people advocating the use of pistoliers or outriders. The biggest advantage of playing against a VC player is a freedom from missile fire, so all your lightly armored units can only be hurt in combat. I would think that the mobility advantage of pistoliers would make them worth something there.

stashman
08-03-2008, 16:41
What happens if a Steamtank is in close combat with Ethereal units?

And this TEARS A STANK APART:

A Vampire Lord with Forbidden Lore (35), Red Fury (50) with Bears Anger has 7 S7 attacks with opportunity for 7 more! Thats insane!

Von Wibble
08-03-2008, 19:33
Icon of Magnus hasn't been mentioned. Greatswords with this won't budge. Give to an elector with armour of meteoric iron, vhs and sword of might (magic needed v ethereals) and you have a lord choice that makes a nice change from the arch lector ;)

Shut down their magic - not too difficult with warrior priests, rod of power, aldred's casket - all things I use against any other opponent. Except Dwarfs.

I have always found in the past the key to beating undead is to kill all support units - Dire wolves, wraiths, hosts, swarms, fell bats. Without these units an undead army is slow (march blocking of course!) and easily outflanked. Vampire characters aren't as hard as they were in previous edition so their units must do more also.

Monsterzonk
08-03-2008, 20:02
- Yeah, Icon of Magnus is really cool, as it makes you immune to Fear.

- Warrior Priests are cool to because they can make units Unbreakable and add another dispel dice to the pool, which is always handy.

- Griffon Banner. Undead hate being beaten in combat, and a healthy +6 on your CR will really help...

- Knights Grand Master with Laurels of Victory (again CR) commanding a unit of Inner Circle Knights, making them Immune to Psychology.

- Handgunners with Hochland Longrifle to take out characters. Vampires come without armour, unless they invest in magic armour.

- Mortars. Pie plates kill hordes.

- Flagellants.

Von Wibble
08-03-2008, 21:09
Warrior priests making units unbreakable isn't so powerful - since most players will let the spell through then dispel it in their turn when delivering the killer charge. But thats 1 less power dice to worry about (2 if he makes sure) I suppose. Just don't rely on it.

Spirit
09-03-2008, 16:27
And considering vamps can quite easily have +2 to dispell in a 2k army, i don't see them as a threat either.

Monsterzonk
09-03-2008, 16:49
True. The real benefit of Warrior Priests is their dispel dice and making the unit they join Hate the enemy. Their prayers are a bonus.

crouchingotter
09-03-2008, 19:06
I know that the author of this thread mentioned that he was mainly interested in how Empire can beat Vampire Counts, but (unless it's too off topic) does anyone have any suggestions from an Orcs & Goblins perspective?

Monsterzonk
09-03-2008, 19:17
I think this thread is presumed to be more general. So I don't own the O&G Armies Book, but there are a few things that generally perform well against the Unquiet Dead.

Their main strengths lie in causing Fear, being Immune to Psychology, and never run away. However, they do have their weaknesses. They rely heavily on magic to summon and heal themselves.

So all units that negate or weaken those strengths are good. These include Stubborn, Unbreakable, and Frenzied units, though Frenzy is a two-edged blade...
In order not to auto-break from being beaten in combat by a Fear causing enemy that outnumbers you, big units should also be considered.
Anything that improves your combat resolution score, or decreases theirs is also a good choice (Warbanner and such).

SilverWarlock
10-03-2008, 01:49
also remember that they can never flee a charge, which is less relevant to empire, but extremely relevant to chaos, orcs or ogres.

Savage orc big 'un boar boyz can walk right up and make a killing against the infantry.

Here too, the key is getting rid of the support troops which can be done by magic or with wolf riders (in range of general so they can charge) who will kill the undead support troops on the charge.

Keep a few bolt throwers around and maybe a catapult for those vampire bat things and potential coaches. Worst case scenario a catapult will have fun in the grave guard.

Monsterzonk
10-03-2008, 09:16
While we're on the Chaos topic... most Chaos Marks are really good against the Undead.

Undivided - re-roll failed psychology tests
Khorne - Frenzy (as I said: be careful)
Nurgle - Fear
Slaanesh - Immune to Psychology
Tzeentch - well... you're getting a rock hard fighty wizard (sounds much like Vampires themselves, eh?) Being strong in the magic department always helps agains VC...

Jagosaja
10-03-2008, 10:33
I play Vampire Counts and I have a pretty good idea how to beat them. Just try to take out their faster units, of which there will certainly not be many. In this edition Vampire Counts suffer of small number of units due to high costs of characters. Just focus on fast units and wipe them out. Vampire Lore is not aggressive and most vampire players will try to maximize Invocation and Vanhel's output, so don't fear they will take you down from distance. After that just gangbang his blocks with strong multiple charges, never EVER single ones, no matter how strong you think your unit is.

Why? Because my unit of 14 skellies saw charges coming both from maxed out HE Prince on Star Dragon, and in a different battle 9 Dragon Princes (with banner for immunity to psychology or something) joined by BSB with Battle Banner, and he rolled 6 on that banner. In one turn, with 13 dice, I have increased the size of skellies from 14 to around 35, in both battles. 13 Invocations on 3+ cannot be stopped, no matter how tough you think your magic defense is. That combined with Helm of commandment on a Lord, and you are doomed. They both just got stuck in the combat, got flanked eventually and fled.

So, kill fast and flexible troops such as Wolves, Varghulfs and Fell Bats, and strike hard. Vampires will see Steam Tanks or cannons and will know to stay back, so this will not work.

Monsterzonk
10-03-2008, 10:55
The thing is that nowadays the Undead can be quite fast. There are so many units with the "Vampire" rule out there that usually the entire army can march. Ghoulkin allows them to march even before the first turn. Black Knights have Ethereal movement and can ignore any terrain. Vampires can be kitted out to Scout, fly or move 9" (18" when marching/charging). Vanhel's Danse Macabre allows them to move in the magic phase...

I think it is a good tactic to hold back and shoot because VC don't have any ranged unit (apart from 8" range Banshees), but don't count too much on reducing their numbers. They can summon their casualties back easily. They can also summon Zombies to block your lines of sight.

aenarion67
10-03-2008, 11:39
ok a few ideas for any HE player strugelling to take these anerexic moonstosities out.
1. drain magic, try to cast multiple times (abosolutely destroys them)
2. killing blow their characters.
3. my personal favourite caradryan (assaination D6 wounds on there general XD)
4. basic spears can easily win combats agasint zombies and skeletons.
5. in shooting choose targets they cant create new units, so if u choose a grave guard unit shoot it till i dies, same with skelltons and ghouls.
6. blood knights. i absolutely hate these. mainly cause there so overated. they die just as easily as khorne knights. treat them the same. bait them and dual charge lion chariots in flank. one of the spells in lore of heavens. D6 str 4 no armoul and fury of the forge. fury of the foge cooks te rotten corpses so quicly the'll be dead before the oppenet even gets to cry.

Your Mum Rang
10-03-2008, 12:22
Stong magic defense. Best way to take the bite out of a VC army.

Get it? Get it?!?!?

Yade
10-03-2008, 20:24
The steam tank can do a max of 5 d3 hits, there's no way to get 10 in a turn.

Your Mum Rang
10-03-2008, 21:12
5d3 = min 5, max 25.

praesto
10-03-2008, 21:18
with 5d3 you can roll a maximum of 15.

Von Bismarck
10-03-2008, 22:57
so the way for empire to beat the new VC (who arnt that strong, try making a list) is.............wait for it........................GET A WALTAR AND 2 STANKS!!!!! ITS REVOLUT........oh wait.............****

crimslain
14-03-2008, 20:40
I know a much easier way, costs only 200 points, I dont know if you can have multiple of these scrolls but buy 2-4 destroy spell scrolls, get a little lucky, use them on his main characters, they will lose all ability to summon undead, make their units larger, or even "heal" their units. All for less than 200 points....

Jack of Blades
14-03-2008, 20:46
You can't have multiples of them though :P
It's a way to have a 50/50 chance of ruining Bear's Anger/Flaming Sword of Rhuin combos though.

Machiavelli
14-03-2008, 21:32
Yesterday I played against the new VC army, lead by a pro player.
This was my 2nd battle as a WHFB player, but I nearly managed to mad eit to a draw.
(the noble went home, he was to tired of killing those skeletons)

He used 3 corpse carts, I killed 2 of them, 1 with the bolt thrower (s6 D3 wound,1 shot 1 kill) other one in CC.
Even with that much corps carts, he didn't hurt my magic so much (cast on +3, whatever). I whiped out his ghoul team with 1 shot of a missle (light magic 1st) than, charged them with shadow warriors.

So after all, I would advise you to bring PG (or other fearless, heavy infantry).
If U are playing HE, don't worrie to much about the magic blocking stuffs.
If U play something else than godd luck!:D

txamil
15-03-2008, 01:22
Stong magic defense. Best way to take the bite out of a VC army.

Get it? Get it?!?!?

I keep hearing this, but I just don't see people out magicing VC and still having an army on the table that can win a combat.

You're not going to do magic defence cheaper then the VCs do magic offense. You're dreaming.

Drogmir
15-03-2008, 01:39
Go heavy on Priests of Sigmar.

They combine both to countering the Vampire's magic and help boost your Units.

Very Useful stuff.

WillFightForFood
15-03-2008, 01:48
I was considering this. You could out magic defense them and have a better army but you really only have one army to choose from. A runelord, on an anvil, and three rune priests, with as many spelleater runes as possible (I think you can get six if you use the right Talisman combinations). Pretty much just dispel everything in round one with the runes. If you get average rolls he will lose three of his spells which will shut down his phase for the game. Use the anvil to hit the Blood Knights and keep them moving at half speed (3.5" - they will take several turns to get nearly in range). Blast his units one at a time with handgunners, and runed bolt throwers (Fire to get rid of regeneration and +1 str) until they are completely destroyed. Eventually he will get to you. Just use regular warriors. There's very little in the army that will be able to kill them by the time he gets to you.

Yeah, you can shut them down completely, but it'll be ugly and they probably won't play you again.


Edit: I realize this was about Empire. I was making a point. Empire can't out magic defense them and it is a waste of points to try.

Oberon
15-03-2008, 08:00
Umm, yes they can? Against more balanced, not over the top 20 power dice full magic, empire can defend nicely. Against my 9+1pd, his 9 DD (walter, 3 mages, one with rod of power, the last 2 DD he gets on 2+=always), it is not nice. +they can make things happen in their own magic phases too, 6 levels of light magic+1 level 5 bound spell/turn->ouch. Oh, and walter is their most reliable general against fear (ok maybe Karl is nice to have too). :P

BenK
15-03-2008, 08:15
This is quite a depressing thread from a Naive Empire player's point of view. Turns out the effective armies with the empire list are cheese to the all get out. Walter and two stanks. Yerrk.

What about a battalion-type list led by a General of the Empire, with a BSB, warrior priest, wizard; several swordsmen blocks with handgunner and halberdier detatchments, a couple of units of vanilla kniggets and a couple of cannon - assuming a similarly 'balanced' (rather than min/maxed) Vampire list, is the Empire going to be competitive? Or do you just get magically nuked with dozens of zombies turning up everywhere every turn, before being ripped to shreds by marauding vampires?

ICEMANQ
15-03-2008, 09:16
What I'm scared of (And Empire should be really scared of) is ethereal marching autobreaking Black Knights. 25 point banner doubles your unit strength, chuck a Wight BSB in there, watch the empire blocks fly.

Spirit
15-03-2008, 16:57
Lol, im doing that without the bsb, but i have a hellsteed vamp with lvl2 (to raise zombies behind the stuff the knights are in combat with) and the helm of command.

WS6 black knights, with US 28, nasty nasty stuff. Then all you need is vanhells to complete the set!

WillFightForFood
15-03-2008, 18:42
Umm, yes they can? Against more balanced, not over the top 20 power dice full magic, empire can defend nicely. Against my 9+1pd, his 9 DD (walter, 3 mages, one with rod of power, the last 2 DD he gets on 2+=always), it is not nice. +they can make things happen in their own magic phases too, 6 levels of light magic+1 level 5 bound spell/turn->ouch. Oh, and walter is their most reliable general against fear (ok maybe Karl is nice to have too). :P


If your opponent has a necromancer, a level 3 lord, and a couple level 2s, they will have 11 magic dice, not counting anything else. That's not even over the top, that's pretty standard. He also will have in that scenario some 7 dispel dice, not counting any other items.

Looking at your lineup, you will have 8 dice plus a few bound spells. Supposing you get some decent spells on your rolls, you might be able to do some damage. Here's the kicker. Just based on an average army, your opponent will get at least some raise dead spells through. Negating your damage. Let's not forget that item you're using to get extra dispel dice means giving up magic dice. Moreover, if you duff that 2+ roll you will be in some deep doo doo.

In any case, let's assume for a second you do manage to stymie his magic offense. Congratulations. Now deal with his beat stick characters. You've spent 555 points on characters (including the Lector and Rod, not counting any other items you might want), so you'll be short on offense. I suppose you can bring the two steam tanks. Let's hope your opponent doesn't have the "All hits wound automatically lance" and Red fury, because your steam tank will be taking 8 armor saves at a 5+ - not counting whatever mount or unit he's with.

The point is this, Gav sent us all the following message:

Save your life for now and go back to Reikland, there will soon be a Vampire on your throne.

Oberon
15-03-2008, 18:51
I'm VC player, and have been in the receiving end of that. I know I can get some neheks through (level 3 lord, necro, and level 1 vamp actually), but 8DD+2 scrolls really does hamper the magic phase I was looking for. If they take lore of light, that's 2 automatic s6 magic missiles if he wants to use them+the altar (soulfire, cleansing fire, magic missile, all need to be dispelled) and other bound spells. Compact and effective magic phase, I'd say.

I would not say my characters are such "beatsticks" if I had them level 2 and 3... The level 1 vamp is nice if he gets the charge, yes, but...

Of course, the said setup would not last too long against 3x2lvl and 1x 4lvl vamps, but that is overly expensive...

theunwantedbeing
15-03-2008, 18:55
Empire....take a lot of minimal size shooting units and give all the champions hochland long rifles.
Vampires dont get a lot of armour....usually none, very few can actually get a better than 4+ save...which is a 6+ save vs hochland hits.

Sniper team :P

Jack of Blades
15-03-2008, 19:06
Speaking of Hochlands, without totally min-maxing on them, how many can you fit in a 2250 points list?

TheMav80
15-03-2008, 21:34
With my Lizardmen i would probably just go with my regular magic-centric list.

2nd Slaan in a unit of Temple Guard. 5 spells, +1 magic die, diadem, totem of prophecy. Roll several times on Lore of Light, Lore of Fire, then Lore of Metal.

Then two lvl Skink priests as scroll caddies and for LoS for the frog. One will carry the cube of darkness and one will carry two dispel scrolls.

It always did well against the old VC, which my friend played. I have not tried it against the new list yet.