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abaddon188
06-03-2008, 20:54
stick a warp lightening cannon behind a nice juicy unit with a banner to cope with their leadership, hope your opponent falls for the trap and flee when they charge the unit, the enemy unit will be left stranded and, hopefully your unit regroups, shoot the heck out of the stranded unit, and if you want to up the anti have a unit ready to charge any survivors:evilgrin::evilgrin:

mav1971
06-03-2008, 21:38
Won't your cannon have to take a panic test for a unit fleeing through them? Kind of risky. The best your probably going to get is four kills in a unit of 20 which wouldn't be enough of a panic test.

ZeroTwentythree
06-03-2008, 21:51
Banner to cope with LD? Which banner is that?

As mav1971 mentioned, the fleeing unit would cause a panic on the LD5 WLC unless it was skavenslaves. (No banners for skavenslaves anyway.) If the WLC survives the potential panic test, they will most likely have one shot, then they will get charged and they must flee from any charge.

If you're going to bait & flee with skaven, you can not count on the fleeing unit to rally, and you should probably have something more threatening than a WLC to deal with the enemy.

mad dog
06-03-2008, 22:19
Better just to try and get the target unit into combat with a unit of slaves or clanats then target the combat with all you have and hopefully randomise a lot of hits onto his expensive knights or similar.

Running away with anything other than skaven slaves is a bad idea cos skaven dont usually stop running. Panic tests are the death of a skaven army - why force yourself to take more of them by fleeing through your own troops?

Firebreather
07-03-2008, 23:56
The most sneaky thing I do with a Warp Lightning Cannon is fire it through hills and such...which I admit isn't so sneaky considering I think it's pretty standard procedure from what I can tell.

I guess I haven't been playing Fantasy or Skaven long enough to come up with anything particularly clever thus far. I'm actually little more than a rank amateur, relying heavily on massive outnumbering and a relatively endless supply of troops to carry me through most times.

It's not sneaky, but I've found it to be so good it's almost criminal for the points cost. my favorite and most used Chieftan build!:

Chieftan-
Heavy Armour
Shield
Additional Hand Weapon
Warpstone Amulet
Bands of Power

He's proven time and again to be simply nasty....well, when it works out, and he manages to get his Bands of Power to work, and...yeah, well you get the point. Lots of attacks at a potentially very high strength, stuck in an(obviously) large unit of Clanrats, and viola. A unit with ridiculously good Ld(for a while anyway), numbers to burn, and decent killing power thanks to the Chieftan of Death. Score.

I know, it's not at all sneaky, as a matter of fact it's all pretty common knowledge and plain old common sense. But it's all I got for now. If I stumble on anything more underhanded(which could only happen accidentally at this point, by the way), I'll let you know.

Shamfrit
08-03-2008, 00:06
Do the bait, but have 2 WLC's, both far away enough on either side. Flee, and leave the unit bang...in between...both cannon's line of fire.

Cut through the unit, take casulties yes, but it will rip it apart no doubt.

Greymarch
08-03-2008, 00:31
With the whole High Elves always striking first thing, I've been thinking of fielding a Warlord or Chieftan with Warpstone Armour and an Enchanted Shield to run into those units of spearmen. A 2+ save that inflicts a STR 4 hit every time it makes it vs a sea of strength 3 attacks should cause something interesting to happen...

Johnnyfrej
09-03-2008, 07:43
The most sneaky thing I do with a Warp Lightning Cannon is fire it through hills and such...which I admit isn't so sneaky considering I think it's pretty standard procedure from what I can tell.

I hope they aren't undefended behind those hills. If not my Huntsmen will make short work of those Ldr5 Crew Slaves :p

If I were you I would use a block of slaves to cover the exposed flanks of the terrain you are firing behind.

-Private Jon

SevenSins
09-03-2008, 11:27
or if you want to go with your original plan, hode 2 wlc's behind a large block of rats(preferably slaves) and fire through them :) (will still get the ld prob though?)
In the voice of Edward the longshanks: "We'll hit theirs as well"

Ward.
09-03-2008, 11:34
The most sneaky thing I do with a Warp Lightning Cannon is fire it through hills and such.

I don't believe they can fire through a hill, forests on the other hand... "take that you dirty hippy's" :D

Firebreather
09-03-2008, 16:43
Oops, my mistake, thanks for pointing that out, Ward. I'm sure I meant to type "trees and such" instead. No, being able to shoot directly through hills and the large, solid terrain features would be a little much, I think;)

Forests and such, as I should have said in the first place, work out quite well enough as it is anyway. It makes the area of effect for the Warp Lightning Cannon that much larger, and therefore multiplies it's threat level noticably.

JohnnyFrej: From my experience, those Huntsmen of yours' would most definately do the trick, even with a unit of Slaves guarding them:) My Skaven are notorious cowards, even in a species reknowned for running away at the first sign of trouble, they stand out! Not only that, but they often find the most ignoble ways to die on me, usually in a comedic(for my opponent, anyway...) and surprising fashion.

nikkcookie
10-03-2008, 11:34
Oops, my mistake, thanks for pointing that out, Ward. I'm sure I meant to type "trees and such" instead. No, being able to shoot directly through hills and the large, solid terrain features would be a little much, I think;)

Forests and such, as I should have said in the first place, work out quite well enough as it is anyway. It makes the area of effect for the Warp Lightning Cannon that much larger, and therefore multiplies it's threat level noticably.

JohnnyFrej: From my experience, those Huntsmen of yours' would most definately do the trick, even with a unit of Slaves guarding them:) My Skaven are notorious cowards, even in a species reknowned for running away at the first sign of trouble, they stand out! Not only that, but they often find the most ignoble ways to die on me, usually in a comedic(for my opponent, anyway...) and surprising fashion.

it duisnt make the area of affect larger... it fires in a straight line kind of like a cannonball.

The Adept
10-03-2008, 12:05
I think me means that the area that the cannon can shoot as is larger, because woods don't matter. Part of the advantage of such a potentially powerful weapon is area denial - that is, setting it up so it covers an area, that way your opponent doesn't want to go there. By ignoring most terrain, the WLC can deny a larger are than most war machines.

Tiamat
10-03-2008, 12:21
Slaves, slaves, slaves. They're one of the most valuable units going in my opinion. The perfect sacrifical unit. They can be used, abused and thrown away in what ever way profits me most and when they do run, they don't cause panic to anything except other slaves!

Meat shield, decoy, bait, directing overruns and pursuits, they can do it all, and at 2 points a head, BARGAIN!

ZeroTwentythree
10-03-2008, 20:09
JohnnyFrej: From my experience, those Huntsmen of yours' would most definately do the trick

A crippled gnoblar on downers will do the trick seeing as the WLC must flee if charged. ;)

That's just one of many reasons every army should have a cheap sacrificial unit. Or two.

Mercules
10-03-2008, 20:28
I think me means that the area that the cannon can shoot as is larger, because woods don't matter. Part of the advantage of such a potentially powerful weapon is area denial - that is, setting it up so it covers an area, that way your opponent doesn't want to go there. By ignoring most terrain, the WLC can deny a larger are than most war machines.

It also covers the WLC's butt against other warmachines. Dropping a template right on it tends to kill off the crew, or shooting at them with enough missles will kill them off. It also slows down charges making many troops go around the woods to get to them or not be able to declare a charge until on the very edge of the woods. All the time it blocks LoS for your opponent, you blast away happily with the WLC.

Rigormortis042
11-03-2008, 11:22
My sneaky tactic...small units of 4 globadiers. They make the perfect baiting unit. march them right up to heavy cavalry. If he doesn't charge you just keep throwing globes if he charges, you get the counter flank charge...whats for dinner? Knight on a stick!

Needs a bit of luck thought if a globe hits himself the unit will most likely panic and run away.

Mercules
11-03-2008, 14:15
My sneaky tactic...small units of 4 globadiers. They make the perfect baiting unit. march them right up to heavy cavalry. If he doesn't charge you just keep throwing globes if he charges, you get the counter flank charge...whats for dinner? Knight on a stick!

Needs a bit of luck thought if a globe hits himself the unit will most likely panic and run away.

My friend uses them in units of 2. They allow him to stretch out his deployment by placing them first and then make great bait. I hate them. :)

Ward.
11-03-2008, 14:41
My friend uses them in units of 2. They allow him to stretch out his deployment by placing them first and then make great bait. I hate them. :)

Wait until he spends the extra 5 points to have table quarter holding/ contesting blocks of night runners before you spread the hate ;)

Rigormortis042
11-03-2008, 14:42
I guess this is the appropriate thread to ask this question seeing as the only tactics that skaven have are sneaky-sneaky.

Can someone please explain to me what rat ogres are good for? In all my games they get shot to bits by archers. These guys never see the end of a battle in my army. Can you guys tell me if you use them and how.

ZeroTwentythree
11-03-2008, 15:02
Can someone please explain to me what rat ogres are good for? In all my games they get shot to bits by archers. These guys never see the end of a battle in my army. Can you guys tell me if you use them and how.



They're good for leaving at home and waiting until they (hopefully) fix them in the next army book.

Harsh, but that's my opinion.

Otherwise they could possibly be used as a distraction, to suck up missile/magic fire.

If you can get them on a flank in a combat in which clanrats are also involved (or vise-versa) they might be OK until they start taking some wounds. The idea being to take away enemy rank bonus while retaining yours, as well as outnumbering them. This is standard skaven swarming, and will hopefully give you +4 to CR. The rOgres would ideally cause a few wounds to add into that. The problem is that if they don't kill their opponents first, they can take wounds pretty easy as well. That and they are expensive for a small flanker unit, IMHO.

fubukii
11-03-2008, 16:02
You can use rat ogres as a nice conversion model for dow ogres, i converted my rat ogres to wield great weapons and sometimes in friendly games ill use them as converted skaven ironguts. But as for the rat ogre profile its self zero is correct, leave em in the case.

ZeroTwentythree
11-03-2008, 16:15
Whoops, yes, I forgot the Ogre DoW option. I built a few of the new plastic rOgres with the gun arm thing and have used them as leadbelchers in a couple games.

Mercules
11-03-2008, 18:00
Wait until he spends the extra 5 points to have table quarter holding/ contesting blocks of night runners before you spread the hate ;)

Been there. There is a reason I have Maneaters with Brace of Handguns despite their expensive nature. That reason is called Skaven. Shoot weapon teams on the move. Turn and shoot Tunneling teams that are now far behind the battle. Shoot Night Runners flanking me or heading for table quarters. Then I get them in CC and 5 Str 5 attacks/model seems to chew up Skaven rather quickly and their static CR doesn't break me as easily.

Rigormortis042
12-03-2008, 06:55
I made about the same conclusion. The thing is that I have a choas player at my local club and he often uses his minotuars. It's almost the same type of unit than rat ogres expect, they have better stats a armour save and cost 1 point less per model.

I know you get the extra packmaster for each pack you buy but that doesn't help you if they just die from shooting.

ZeroTwentythree
12-03-2008, 15:45
The packmaster is a huge trade off since the rOgres go stupid if the packmasters all die. Stupid rule, IMHO. The giant rats go all vicious and move towards the enemy if the masters die, but the specially bred killing machines... well, they just wander around like idiots. :rolleyes:

Feefait
12-03-2008, 17:11
Running away with anything other than skaven slaves is a bad idea cos skaven dont usually stop running. Panic tests are the death of a skaven army - why force yourself to take more of them by fleeing through your own troops?

"Skaven don't usually stop running..." ain't it the truth man... lol. I love Skaven.