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Horus38
28-05-2008, 00:31
This is a "What if..." thread. I sometimes feel WHFB suffers from having too many different armies that do not receive a regular enough update. One possible solution to this is cutting down on the number of armies and I'd like to know which ones players think should get the axe: meaning they wouldn't have existed rather then 'GW should drop this army NOW'.

My revisions would be something like this:

Beasts of Chaos (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Hordes of Chaos (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Demons of Chaos (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Chaos Dwarfs (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Bretonnia
Empire
Dwarfs
Dogs of War (remove)
Lizardmen
High Elves
Dark Elves
Wood Elves
Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings (merge with Vampire Counts)
Orcs & Goblins
Skaven
Ogre Kingdoms (remove)

What do other people think about which armies could have been historically consolidated or dropped.

Scallat
28-05-2008, 00:55
My solution to the hordes, demons, beasts split in choas is to re-introduce cults to the army. People can take units from any of the 3 books as long as they're patrons of the same god. So you can have the Skulltaker leading any army of ungor marked with khorne with chosen knights of khorne aswell. But if you want to mix gods you may only have demons OR mortals OR beasts.

Bretonnian Lord
28-05-2008, 01:34
I think that consolidating all the Chaos books into one big army would be kind of neat. However, I think armies like Bretonnia/Empire and Tomb Kings/Vampire Counts are unique enough that they shouldn't be merged into generic "humans" or "undead."

Also, Dogs of War are cool, keep them!

I guess I'm not a big fan of change, I'm fine with keeping all the armies the way they are. :p

Condottiere
28-05-2008, 01:43
Maybe have a Tilea/Estalia/Araby/Dogs of War combined Book.

You could put the all the Elves in one book, but make their lists non combinable.

And a Armies of the Orient.

Horus38
28-05-2008, 02:45
I guess I'm not a big fan of change, I'm fine with keeping all the armies the way they are. :p

Lol, I've been fairly pleased with GW's latest direction and revisions to the books (HE, VC, Demons, and Dark Elves from the rumors) so I'm fine with the current setup. I just wish they'd get everyone updated faster but that's life :cool:

Ethlorien
28-05-2008, 03:46
Yeah, I have to agree with Horus38: I like the way GW are doing things right now.

Personally, I feel the more the merrier. I buy way more game books then I play, more army books then I could ever collect, etc. I would rather they keep pumping out new army books and armies. I'm waiting on Cathay, Dogs of War, Chaos Dwarfs, Nippon, Ind, hell, even Fishmen I'd eventually pick up.

TheJo0vler
28-05-2008, 03:50
My solution to the hordes, demons, beasts split in choas is to re-introduce cults to the army. People can take units from any of the 3 books as long as they're patrons of the same god. So you can have the Skulltaker leading any army of ungor marked with khorne with chosen knights of khorne aswell. But if you want to mix gods you may only have demons OR mortals OR beasts.

I love it!
This is an amazing idea

bufordbugman
28-05-2008, 05:17
Yeah, I have to agree with Horus38: I like the way GW are doing things right now.

Personally, I feel the more the merrier. I buy way more game books then I play, more army books then I could ever collect, etc. I would rather they keep pumping out new army books and armies. I'm waiting on Cathay, Dogs of War, Chaos Dwarfs, Nippon, Ind, hell, even Fishmen I'd eventually pick up.

Agreed! One of the real delights of WHF is the great variety of armies. Keep 'em coming, as long as the quality stays high (and it has been, IMO). Cathay sounds great. If the only price is a longer time between updates, that's no biggie.

SPYDER68
28-05-2008, 05:28
You mean the speed fantasy gets armybooks is slow ?

Its really amazingly fast compared to 40k lol..

they have armies that are on their first or second codex while some are on their 3rd or 5th.

skullman86
28-05-2008, 06:36
The only ones I see that are viable IMO are merging all the chaos books but we already know that isn't going to happen :rolleyes:.Tombkings and vampires being merged does make sense on some levels because they are undead but that seems to be their only similarity as they are completely different armies that don't seem to have much else in common (just based on my observations).OK are a pretty unique race and I'm sure people also like using them as DoW so I don't know if you can just get rid of them.You could take the DoW units and just spread them through the existing armies where they fit in and allow all armies to get their DoW/reinforcements from allied armies

forces of good
lizzies
empire
dwarfs
bretts
HE
WE

Forces of darkness
Chaos
vamps
DE
O&G
skaven

neutral (all armies can use)
OK
tomb kings (?)


...Then again that over-complicates everything and I'm sure GW would probably be using something similar if it was any good

Edit: maybe merge bretts and empire.I don't know their backrounds so I'm not sure if that would work

Leogun_91
28-05-2008, 08:55
I would not want any of it but if I must chose I would merge Chaos togheter and remove nothing but chaos dwarfs.

If more must be removed DoW, Empire and Brettonian would become Warhammer Armies: Human armies, and DE, HE and WE would become Warhammer Armies: Elves but to go as far as to really remove fully playable models and armies from game would be so mean and disencouraging for players that I wouldn“t consider it.

vesp
28-05-2008, 10:32
Get rid of the dwarfs, I mean really, who plays them? One of the most stale and over-used concepts in fantasy...

(Good job on creating another thread for Leogun's personal hate-crusade against Chaos Dwarfs btw)

Seriously though, I like the current setup and wouldn't remove any armies for any reason at all. I'm also slightly confused as to what you would term 'updates' - rules/models/fluff... what? Ideally, an army would be completed in a solid enough way that wouldn't require any updates for years - who really wants to replace every single model in their army when a new batch of miniatures gets released every few years? (commiserations to you if that sounds like your idea of a good time, and you don't have anything else to spend your disposable income on). The odd rule change update is acceptable, but this already happens.

Weldo Rubin
28-05-2008, 11:15
Beasts of Chaos (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Hordes of Chaos (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Demons of Chaos (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Chaos Dwarfs (merge into 1 or 2 giant chaos books)
Bretonnia
Empire
Dwarfs
Dogs of War (remove)
Lizardmen
High Elves
Dark Elves
Wood Elves
Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings (merge with Vampire Counts)
Orcs & Goblins
Skaven
Ogre Kingdoms (remove)


I agree with you on this list, if the following changes are made:

*The Chaos Dwarfs should have their own Army (or Skaven could just as well be part of the giant Chaos Book...).
*The Vampire Counts - Tomb Kings Army should be called The Undead, and the Combined Chaos Army Chaos.

I completely agree with the 'unexistance' of Dogs of War and Ogre Kingdoms. I don't like Skaven either, but everyone needs an Army to hate, and they fit much better in the Background than the Ogre Kingdoms, in my opinion:).

Bombot
28-05-2008, 11:34
they have armies that are on their first or second codex while some are on their 3rd or 5th.

That'll be because there aren't any Space Marines in WHFB ;)

Braad
28-05-2008, 12:44
I just read something not long ago (here on warseer) that someone send a letter to a guy in Nottingham, asking about the plans for chaos dwarfs.
In the answering letter they said that probably it won't be soon or something, because (and here comes the relation to this topic) they don't want to have armies that cannot be given regular attention because they want to change the way they do things to giving all the current armies their regular updates.

I think we are fine with the armies we currently have. I don't think they should add more, nor remove any. If they just continue with updating everything we have now like they are currently doing, it should be fine.

Only point I have, is that they should be focussing more on certain models that haven't seen an update in a looong time. For example, plastic black orcs are cool, but the boar boyz were much more in need of new models.

SPYDER68
28-05-2008, 14:35
That'll be because there aren't any Space Marines in WHFB ;)

Very true :)

The SkaerKrow
28-05-2008, 14:41
They're moving in the right direction as it is. Four army books per year, refrain from revamping the entire miniatures line with each release so that said pace can be maintained. Honestly, Fantasy is in a lot better shape than 40K is in this regard. At the current pace the entire line should receive an update once every four years, which is plenty.

Atropos
28-05-2008, 15:59
VC and TK together? Never, dude! They're so different...

blueon462
28-05-2008, 16:18
I think GW is doing fine as is. I have but one complaint and that is that FAQ's and rules errata are somewhat sporadic and wanting for a company that hosts tournaments using its own gaming system.

In my opinion there is an affordable and realistic way to fix this and that would be to simply use the tools you have at hand. For example, add a tournament and Gaming Club section to WD where they include tournament rulings (if not official FAQs) at regular intervals/as needed (sort of like your run of the mill mmo). In my opinion this would solve some of the disparity at tournaments and help some of the weaker armies, until their new books come out at least, not to mention sell a few more copies of WhiteDwarf.

SuperArchMegalon
28-05-2008, 16:39
"Lol, I don't like this army, let's just remove them - it's inconvenient."

Really, removing the Ogre Kingdoms? After 1 army book? That would make people so angry, it's like taking out Chaos Dwarfs but with only book of history, like a cruel "Just kidding!" joke. Sorry, but I don't see any reason to reduce diversity at the cost of peoples' money and time, for the sake of releasing another beloved Empire book faster.

Lordsaradain
28-05-2008, 18:26
Noooooo! The more books the better. More books equal more versitality, more armies to collect, more money for GW etc. Win-win, see?

Sleazy
29-05-2008, 18:59
i agree. dont get rid of any, ok maybe the less popular armies dont get new books so often (once every 2 editions is fine as long as they are compatible like now).

I might not want to collect every army but I damn sure want to play against as many as possible!

I'm currently collecting and painting a chaos dwarf army, whilst I admit that part of the attraction is the rarity of them and the "hunt" for minis.. I would prefer if GW just kept the minis available as mail order only, gave CD a WD list each edition and maybe released the odd figure, (we've had the hell cannon, how about this edition a new direct only lammasu for example).

Mawchild
29-05-2008, 19:29
I think it makes more sense to do it the way it is now. Though if a couple of big books came out that were compendiums of a couple of related races that would be cool, though only elves, dwarfs and chaos (mortals) would really work; as an aside this should really be done for SM in 40K one big bumper book for all the chapters albeit at one big bumper book price. The only problem with the above set up is that instead of having to revise one army book you'd need to effectively revise two or three at a time. I'd rather they went back to using white dwarf as a medium to pass on temporary lists between updates (preferably coinciding with the odd new mini/box set release) and kept it the way it is.

Leave the Ogre Kingdoms alone, they are a great starter army (simple rules, easy to paint, easy to convert, good value box set, fun to play) and provide the only viable link fluffwise between the old world and Cathay.

gortexgunnerson
29-05-2008, 19:33
Get rid of the dwarfs, I mean really, who plays them? One of the most stale and over-used concepts in fantasy....

Dwarfs rock! And dwarf players are one of the most loyal player types going. Thats just wrong to suggest getting rid of them. They are one of the core armies!

I would have to say that dwarfs are on of the most popular armies!

On the orignial thread, I say more armies the better more varity makes it ore interesting.

And GW are never going to put armies in a single book that can't combine eg Elves as why would they want to sell one book when they can sell 3. And who would pay £30 for a book when they only wanted the rules for one army

Swoop
30-05-2008, 01:27
As a former Squat player I would violently oppose any effort to cut out an existing army. Of course then we could ask every Red Shirt we meet "When are the squats and Bretonians coming out?"

Swoop!

Rioghan Murchadha
30-05-2008, 03:18
VC and TK together? Never, dude! They're so different...

My brain hurts when I read things like this. You do realize that a couple editions ago (tomb kings as a seperate army is only 6th edition), the book was called "Undead" and contained all the bony goodness now split into 2 army books.

Chaos Mortal
30-05-2008, 10:02
to be honest i think the variety is what attracts alot of players to the game... its great being able to play with your friends and not have to play against the "humans" three tims the an "undead" then another "human" army, it also makes tournaments much more interesting and i think that updates that come any faster would be terrible as there would be nopoint in buying an army as they would quiet quickly have alot of obsolete units.

Thanks, Chaos Mortal

Rubicon
30-05-2008, 10:26
You mean the speed fantasy gets armybooks is slow ?

Its really amazingly fast compared to 40k lol..

they have armies that are on their first or second codex while some are on their 3rd or 5th.


That'll be because there aren't any Space Marines in WHFB ;)

Amen to that, and thank goodness too, another reason that Fantasy wins out over 40k for me.

Mawchild
02-06-2008, 13:20
Anyway the more diverse armies the better as it means power builds are not so effective. More balanced forces are required to deal with a wider and more varied set of foes and scenarios.