View Full Version : Setting up a WFB tourney. Advice wanted

28-05-2008, 16:44
Hi folks

I'm secretary of a club that is arranging a WFB tournament in November.

We have enough time to get in four games if we restrict the points of some games. The proposed format is 2 games at 1500, 2 at 2000. The 2000 point list must be the 1500 point list plus extras, which restricts uber characters.

We used a similar format for a 40k tourney, and it worked well, building in a form of narrative as armies grew over the day.

Some players won't like that they can't take Karl Franz and two Steam Tanks, but anyone cheesy enough to bring all that needs ridiculing. But other characters are also blocked by this. Orion, uber Lords on Dragons and Thorek are all out of contention with this, and for some people it is these big gribblies that make WFB the game they want to play. I have some sympathy with this, but it's a restriction I can live with.

Is this going to nerf any armies?

How about special characters. I am of the opinion that these things are part of the game, but others disagree. For consistency, we don't want to get into a discussion about which should be barred and which allowed, so it's all or nothing IMO.

What do you folks think?

28-05-2008, 18:23
I say do all they games at 1500 points. Then people will only have to keep track of one list and there wont be any cheesy lords. ;)

Mad Doc Grotsnik
28-05-2008, 18:42
I had a similar though for a three round, 8 player knock out Tourny.

First game is 1,000, next 1,500, and the final 2,000.

As with yours, each upping of the points is an addition to the previous list. Thus, if you put a Magic Item on a character in 1,000, you can't take it off him and give it to your Lord in 2,000 etc...

Makes it a bit more interesting in my opinion. Of course, you could always run it as a 'Friendly' with absolutely no prizes or certificates of any description, and bill it as a way for people to meet new gamers*

*Like Tournys should be, in my opinion! :p

Andrew Luke
28-05-2008, 20:52
The only army I can see this hurting is VC, because characters are so central to their lists. It might help High Elves a bit, as they won't need to be adding any Core choices really and can just stock up on rares and specials. Over all I don't think it will be a huge skew though. What you could just do is use old school percentage restrictions, ie 25% core, not more than 50% chars. You could make it interesting and make it min 50% core for the smaller game, and then add all the rares, specials etc in the bigger game, so that the games are significantly different.

28-05-2008, 21:33
Have a quick multiplayer romp round with peaople just fielding their extra 500 points in a free for all at lunch!

28-05-2008, 21:36
i would also do all the games at 1500

29-05-2008, 04:16
I would not make any characters be forced to use the same magic items at the points lvels, or just let them give it to other players.

I use my Chaos Lord either as an exalted champion or a chaos lord. Something I will take for him at less than a thousand I certainly don't take when he can afford the more costly items and might ditch the item or let another hero use it.

I kinda like the 1000-1500-2000

You did say thoguh taht you could fit in four games, so why not 1000-1500-1850-2000?

Maybe a Swiss Style tournament?

29-05-2008, 04:42
Most people should be fine without any special characters. I would not change the points value of the games. It works fine in 40k as hero options don't vary too much in points cost like in fantasy... which would be the big edge for someone IMO. Just a couple examples for you:

Player A is playing HE, sets up with Dragon mounted heroes at 1500 points, but has less troops... result is he is probably better at 1500 then most lists, and when you move up to 2000 (as your not allowing completely different lists) simple adds in a couple of units but still has his big characters.

Player B does the same thing with VC, gets a big uber Vampire at 1500 and only gets to add more units.

Player C is playing Ogres and at 1500 points thinks that a Tyrant is a little overkill and can use the points elesewhere. When moved up to 2000 points, really wishes to upgrade that bruiser into a Tyrant but can not, and is hurting from 1500 games having to deal with bigger badder heroes, and still has to face them at 2000 plus more units.

So I think if you stuck at a points level whether its 1500, 1750 or 2000 stick with it, as you can get some "on purpose, or not on purpose" advantages for some people over others.

Personally I like the idea of a longer running tourny. EG. Weekend one starts with a 500 point tourny, points awarded for placements, next weekend its a 1000 point tourny, same army must be used... points are awarded for placements, next weekend 2000 point tourny points awarded, and then you name your champion, or have a 1 vrs 2 battle off. It creates a balance between power gaming lists, as some armies are better at 500 point games but are weaker in higher points, and vice versa. That and most people if they are building a power gaming list, are sitting at the 2000 or 3000 point level, resulting in them needing to be different to win it all.

29-05-2008, 08:56
We don't have time for checking more than two lists, so stepping the games is out. We'll be hosting 50 players, so it needs to be kept simple, just not too simple. I like pushing players out of their comfort zones just a little bit.

Our players are used to one at 1000, three at 2000, but a change is as good as a rest, so we decided to switch things around.

29-05-2008, 14:07
It shouldnt be a problem to exclude special characters. Off the top of my head I cant think of too many armies that cant run without them. A example of Orions wild hunt that totally changes the WE FoC would hurt a player that exclusively plays that, but I really dont know anyone that limits their army selection that badly.

29-05-2008, 18:47
The Orion example is exactly the problem we have.

29-05-2008, 19:06
I think you just need to make a decision and stick to it. If you want to limit big characters 1999 tournments creates a very different game will a much more unit focus to the game. However I quite like the 1500-2000 more but you could get it in 1 list to reduce the checking I.e. 1500 points list 500 point list on the bottem. Or if you want to cut time down on checking have a 10 min check period for an oppenent list before the game. Most players will pick up anything that the judges will. The only issue of this is where a player puts pressure on the oppenent not to report the error.

29-05-2008, 19:32
sIf your just looking to get more games in and save time, I say stick with 1500.

But otherwise, I say do 2k or 2250. As this seem to be the points values that the game is balanced around, and a few armies will struggle below 2k. TK, and VC specifically will have problems. Depending on the skill level of your group, your also likely to get a lot more points denial games in 1500. As a DE player one of the most effective lists I have found below 2k is a large amount of Dark Riders, just shooting, fleeing and and the like.
Many armies are forced to build some boring armies to play without the extra points, as it makes it very hard for them to deal with certain types of units.

Ban all special characters. The ruin the balance of the game, and even if you disagree with that then take in to account the massive increases in new special characters compared to old and with so few army books out it is largely unfair to the old books.