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Deus Mechanicus
08-09-2008, 21:32
Im a primarily 40k play with little to no experience in fantasy. Been looking at it though i've never really found a theme that caught my eye untill the revelation that with the Troll King you can make an army of Chaos Trolls.

Now while a army of Trolls lead by the king and supported by a Chaos Giant or so would look extremly cool on the table is it a working "casual" army? As in would it stand any chance at winning at all?

The thing (and reason im looking at this is) that im into more small scale 1000 pts ish battles and therefor wont see many lords except in that occasionally 2000 pts battle.

So here is the funny part, without knowing the specifics about the new Warriors of Chaos and indeed without knowing the fantasy rules very well i made this preliminary list:

Throg the Troll King 175 pts
goes with
5x Chaos Trolls 225 pts

6x Chaos Trolls 270 pts

3x Chaos Trolls 135 pts

Chaos Giant 205 pts
(Don't know -any- of the rules for this one except it's current point cost but that hoofed & horned Chaos Giant model is just so cool)

1010 pts
(10 points over but nevermind the details it's just a preliminary list, don't know what options they/the giant can have.)

So my question to fantasy players is: Are "monstrous" armies workable in small scale battles (1000-1500) as well as around 2000 pts?

Normally i'd just wait for the book and get more into the 7th edition rulesystem before making the descision but with the price rise on the horizon i'd like to get a few Chaos Trolls in advance so im in a bit of a dilemma right now.

Thanks for all the help!

Rikkjourd
08-09-2008, 23:13
I wouldn't make units of 6 trolls. Either you have to put a few on the back, which means you spent points on trolls who don't anything, or you will have a frontage of doom so you can't manouver very well.

Also this army will suffer very much against any army which can have a flaming attack. Just one flaming wound against a unit and you don't have regeneration. Then the trolls basically becomes ogre kingdoms, and therefore crap. In addition, since you don't have any magic and there are spells that causes flaming... you do the math.

Furthermore, since you don't have anything ranged / flying / fast cav you can get shot to death while march blocked.

Just a few drawbacks.

Kronos
08-09-2008, 23:23
Just of curiosity, does the troll king make trolls a core choice or just allow one or two units to count as core?

If does allow for trolls to be a core i think i some chaos spawn kits, a bit of gs and a new chaos character will make my new and quick warhammer army:evilgrin:


Also can't wait to see a close up of the miniature and read his fluff.

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 01:05
He makes Trolls core AFAIK, making an all monsterous army possible.

Is the troll king a lord or a hero choice? If he is a lrod choice then he is unusable at under 2k points.

Im not sure that it will be very effective though, they just dont have the numbers. A block of well supported heavy infantry will be pretty hard for them to shift.

It is an army that I am tempted to run but it will be extremely expensive wise unless there is a plastic troll kits coming out (and even then).

Kalec
09-09-2008, 01:24
It could work, just take a couple 3 or 4 units of trolls with some marauder horseman or maybe a couple of chariots to keep the enemy busy until your trolls hit their line. You don't need a whole lot of them, since they hit hard and Throg is no slouch either. As long as you can negate ranks then infantry will fall, and troll vomit takes care of those nasty knights.

BattleofLund
09-09-2008, 01:27
I wouldn't make units of 6 trolls. Either you have to put a few on the back, which means you spent points on trolls who don't anything, or you will have a frontage of doom so you can't manouver very well.

Also this army will suffer very much against any army which can have a flaming attack. Just one flaming wound against a unit and you don't have regeneration. Then the trolls basically becomes ogre kingdoms, and therefore crap. In addition, since you don't have any magic and there are spells that causes flaming... you do the math.

1) I agree with Rikkjourd on unit size, in principle. One benefit of having a bigger unit though, is being able to hide the King (and get 'Look Out Sir!' rolls).

2) As far as I know, in 7th Ed Flaming attacks disallow Regeneration saves - but only for that particular attack. No permanent removal of Regen is caused by a flaming wound.

3) For fun's sake, I would try to squeeze in a Sorcerer. Perhaps as a pet for the King? Or that's what the King thinks, anyway... ;)

4) The rumour seems to be that the Troll King is a Hero-level character, thus eligible for games below 2,000 points.

5) Even with the rumoured 'Troll King gives his Leadership 8 to all your Trolls' rule, they will probably still be Stupid, right? Meaning that your army will be less reliable than an Orc&Goblin force, and that is saying something. Still, very characterful and that. Competitive? No.

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 01:28
If you start adding mauraders its not an all monster army is it!

BattleofLund
09-09-2008, 01:51
If you start adding mauraders its not an all monster army is it!

No, and that goes for the Sorcerer too unfortunately. :(

But on the other hand... do YOU, Ozorik, have the guts to tell the King what he can or cannot bring to the field!? :D

Ozorik
09-09-2008, 01:53
Yeah as he is a small chunk of metal that I could 'accidentally' drop. :)

Deus Mechanicus
09-09-2008, 11:01
I could definatly see a sorcerer in there, either as a pet, a "puppet master" or an advisor to the king. Could as mentioned maybe use alittle magic in the list

GodlessM
09-09-2008, 13:49
Saw some questions here. Troll King is a hero choice and makes Trolls core. Those waiting to see his model will be waiting for a very long time because last I checked they aren't making a model for him.

As far as the army goes, I think you need some Ogres.

Kronos
09-09-2008, 13:59
Saw some questions here. Troll King is a hero choice and makes Trolls core. Those waiting to see his model will be waiting for a very long time because last I checked they aren't making a model for him.

As far as the army goes, I think you need some Ogres.



i thought Wulfric the Wanderer was the troll king ?


if he isn't then thanks for the heads up, looks like some conversion work on a certain chaos lord will need to be done then (yay :))

Deus Mechanicus
19-09-2008, 02:20
Thanks for the thoughts. Guess i'll have to wait for the army book before deciding on however a Troll Army is good to go.

BTW how isn't it better having 6 trolls in one unit (or 5 and the king)? And im speaking as a non-fantasy player here but from a 40k viewpoint... more is better!

Kalec
19-09-2008, 03:10
Only the trolls in base to base contact with the enemy get to attack. You will rarely be able to fit in 6 trolls in base to base contact in combat. Therefore, the trolls not in btb are essentially wasted, and would do better as a separate unit.

Braad
19-09-2008, 07:42
My biggest question is: Do you want to play with friends, or do you wish to enter tournaments and play in stores?

If the first is true, then my answer would be: start your own army!
Some time ago I started a thread to discuss about this.
Basicly it consisted of throwing all available Troll models (common, river, stone, chaos) in one army, and adding some stuff.
Normal trolls would be core, trolls carrying ballista's or thrown weapons as special...

The more trolls, the better, is what I would say...

I also made up my own character (that was before anything was known about a troll king) and gave him the ability to generate a few dispel dice, to make up for the worst part of the lack for magic.

If you come up with something really cool and the models to go with it, you will still have to ask for permission to use it, but no truly 'friendly' player will say no to it! Of course, you have to keep it fair and at least a bit balanced or, maybe even, underpowered.

If you like, I could post my concept armylist tonight?

Remember, this game only stops where your own imagination stops!

Urgat
19-09-2008, 08:56
Well, i'll see it for myself as soon as I get the book, if it works or not.
I'll be building my army around 3 units of 4 trolls, units of ogres as special, a couple giants/shaggoths, and riderless wolves to count as chaos hounds. I'll also use my dark emissary as a sorcerer, as that mini got a certain feral quality.
New army: 1
new minis to buy: 0
isn't that wonderfull? :D

Btw, I was thinking: are chaos trolls 1+ units like the O&G ones? If so, that would be the ultimate MSU list, actually, I'd forget about 4 trolls units, and make a swarm of lone trolls!

Tokamak
19-09-2008, 09:36
An incredibly cool idea. Though don't be afraid off adding more monsters. You can also simply call the theme 'No humanoids' instead of 'all troll', which enables you to add warhounds and spawns and such.


My biggest question is: Do you want to play with friends, or do you wish to enter tournaments and play in stores?

If the first is true, then my answer would be: start your own army!

I can imagine that even while playing against friends, people would like to keep their armies 'official'. Half the fun in a themed army is doing something interesting within the limitations that have been given to you.


Thanks for the thoughts. Guess i'll have to wait for the army book before deciding on however a Troll Army is good to go.

BTW how isn't it better having 6 trolls in one unit (or 5 and the king)? And im speaking as a non-fantasy player here but from a 40k viewpoint... more is better!

In fantasy rank bonuses can be pretty important. Now you'll only get those trough having ranks of five. Which gives your trolls a very broad unit.

That said, It wouldn't actually be such a bad idea to have one big unit of several ranks of five trolls in your army for some staying power. I've seen enough ogre players do that.

Did you also look at the options for getting cheap trolls somewhere? Perhaps the BFSP plastic troll?Trolls aren't actually cheap point/costs wise. There might be a chance the beastmen update will include plastic trolls (just my own logic, no real rumour).


Btw, I was thinking: are chaos trolls 1+ units like the O&G ones? If so, that would be the ultimate MSU list, actually, I'd forget about 4 trolls units, and make a swarm of lone trolls!

We don't know that yet, the beastmen trolls were 3+, and the O&G trolls only became 1+ is their last update, so we'll have to wait for more information on the new book.

GodlessM
19-09-2008, 12:52
i thought Wulfric the Wanderer was the troll king ?


if he isn't then thanks for the heads up, looks like some conversion work on a certain chaos lord will need to be done then (yay :))


Are you serious? Ok that made my day thank you. The Troll King is a troll. His name is Throg.

Valaraukar
19-09-2008, 13:56
Hmm I'm trying to work out how to make the vast number of things with no models, what do people think about Throg? I thought I'd use a LOTR troll, add a normal troll head or sculpt one from scratch dependign on how it sizes up and sculpt the correct number of fingers and toes. Size wise the LOTR ones are a good deal bigger than the normal ones so should look suitably imposing.

GodlessM
19-09-2008, 13:58
Bardhur of whatever his name is from LOTR would be perfect in my opinion. Just adorn him a little bit with the odd Chaos symbol.

Valaraukar
19-09-2008, 14:02
I wasn't sure what sort of equipment he's meant to have is he armoured at all etc? Bardhur is nice and dishevelled if that's the right look otherwise if he's armoured I'd use the isengard/mordor troll chieftain as one I've already got him and two he's suitably beastly and wearing some heavy looking plate.

Braad
19-09-2008, 18:00
I can imagine that even while playing against friends, people would like to keep their armies 'official'. Half the fun in a themed army is doing something interesting within the limitations that have been given to you.

Some people do, some people don't. I am just offering the option.

Tokamak
19-09-2008, 18:13
Good, if it wasn't an option it would be against the law in most countries.

Braad
19-09-2008, 21:56
I make my own law... The law of the strongest.

By the way, as a suggestion for others, I was thinking of converting this beasty to a troll lord/king/whatever:
http://www.tellurian.de/blog/media/mauler.jpg
Its the Dire Troll Mauler from the Hordes range.

GodlessM
19-09-2008, 22:06
Sorry but that looks retarded

Urgat
19-09-2008, 23:09
Question of taste, you know?

GodlessM
20-09-2008, 00:33
Yup you are right, and he tastes damn rotten to me :D

Braad
20-09-2008, 20:11
What? That troll? What's wrong with it?

A bit on the 'why' is always appreciated when someone gives a radical opinion.

Valaraukar
20-09-2008, 22:28
Well for starters if you're using him alongside GW trolls he will look completely out of place without A LOT of conversion which sort of negates the point in using it as a base as even if he is the Troll king he should look similar but maybe bigger and more badass, IMO ofc.

LionoftheBegs
20-09-2008, 22:34
Yup you are right, and he tastes damn rotten to me :D

Less rotten than the aweful GW models that come out. The Trolls are the worst models l've ever seen.

In anycase, how many models would you say this army would come to? Less than OK or more?

Urgat
20-09-2008, 23:50
Depends if you count gnobblars or not :p

GodlessM
21-09-2008, 00:53
I agree that GW Trolls are God awful too. In fact the LOTR Trolls and the River Trolls are the only Troll model period that I like.