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th7dude
12-09-2008, 23:07
Hi all.

I used to use AB 2 back in the day and since getting back into 40K see they have a new version out. Are there any other similar programs out there or is AB the only one worth bothering with? Thanks.

Surgency
12-09-2008, 23:36
only one worth using. Once I got used to the changes between AB 2 and AB 3, I prefer AB 3

ChrisAsmadi
12-09-2008, 23:40
AB sucks.

Use notepad, Excel or OO.o Calc.

Seriously, the licence is *********** horrible.

Lord_Squinty
12-09-2008, 23:45
How does armybuilder compare to BL Armies/Enemies of the imperium (besides lack of updates) and how quick are updates released?

Cheers

<Edit>
Added -
Found this on our very on pages - may be of some use.
http://warseer.com/reviews/army_builder_3_review

ChrisAsmadi
12-09-2008, 23:52
How does armybuilder compare to BL Armies/Enemies of the imperium (besides lack of updates) and how quick are updates released?

Cheers

<Edit>
Added -
Found this on our very on pages - may be of some use.
http://warseer.com/reviews/army_builder_3_review

Armies/Enemies of the Imperium are even worse than Army Builder (which is saying something).

Seriously, Notepad and OpenOffice.org Calc are both free and much, MUCH better than any of these programs.

Surgency
13-09-2008, 00:21
well, if someone would do the work, I'd try them. As it is, Armybuilder does 90% of the work for you. I really don't want to use notepad or openoffice to manually add everything up. Might as well use a pen and paper + calculator

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 00:46
well, if someone would do the work, I'd try them. As it is, Armybuilder does 90% of the work for you. I really don't want to use notepad or openoffice to manually add everything up. Might as well use a pen and paper + calculator

OpenOffice.org Calc can do adding up.

And seriously the only reason to use anything beyond pen and paper + calculator is because most people's handwriting sucks.

Aurellis
13-09-2008, 00:49
OpenOffice.org Calc can do adding up.

And seriously the only reason to use anything beyond pen and paper + calculator is because most people's handwriting sucks.

QFT, Open Office adds unit tallys up and presents everything in a professional and easy to read manner. Whats not to like?

Surgency
13-09-2008, 00:53
thats the problem... I still have to input all the info, put in the numbers, etc... All I have to do with AB is to ensure the numbers are right. Takes a small bit of mental math to double check that, and I'm good to go. Besides, I can print out all the statlines along with my actual army list from AB, and it's all included in the WH40k download.

Does openoffice.org do that?

Basically, with about 10-15 mins work, at most, I have a neat, organized army list that has all the info for my army on it, and all the info I'll need, as opposed to using some of these other systems, which could end up taking a lot longer, won't have the info relevent to my army in one easy to use location, and is rather sloppy to read... Just because you don't like AB doesn't mean it's a bad program. There are a few bugs, but for the most part it's clean, it works very well, and it's up to date.



QFT, Open Office adds unit tallys up and presents everything in a professional and easy to read manner. Whats not to like?

Does it have it all in an easy to download package? I looked, and couldn't seem to find anything for it. I'm not about to go spend 12 hours inputting all my equip costs, model costs, and options into a program when there's a program already out there that does it for me...

Aurellis
13-09-2008, 00:56
Does openoffice.org do that?

Problem is, Army Builder costs money and has a poor licensing system with it. Open Office is free and if you have really good spreadsheet knowledge you can setup a similar system without too many difficulties

When you download Open Office all the Office suites are installed on to your computer also

Surgency
13-09-2008, 01:01
in essence, if you don't mind paying 40$ for the program, then AB has everything done for you already.

If you don't mind putting in the work of adding all your units/options/upgrades/equip to a spreadsheet or database program, openoffice.org is free

Aurellis
13-09-2008, 01:03
in essence, if you don't mind paying 40$ for the program, then AB has everything done for you already.

If you don't mind putting in the work of adding all your units/options/upgrades/equip to a spreadsheet or database program, openoffice.org is free

Pretty much, it doesn't take too long to do either. If i wasn't a poor student I would probably have bought Army Builder but now I've got my system setup I'll probably never need/want to

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 01:17
in essence, if you don't mind paying 40$ for the program, then AB has everything done for you already.

If you don't mind putting in the work of adding all your units/options/upgrades/equip to a spreadsheet or database program, openoffice.org is free

But you're not even paying the people who do the work for you.

You're paying the people who provide the platform to do it. And then accepting their dodgy as **** licence.

((Incidentally, I personally use Notepad for most stuff, but OO.o Calc for Necromunda, because it needs tables)).

Bookwrak
13-09-2008, 01:33
And what exactly is wrong with the license?

Army Builder is, without a doubt, the cream of the crop, and if you don't want to actually pay for it, just download the demo, use it within the demo restrictions, and use the 'save as text' function to build your list three units at a time.

AmKhaibitu
13-09-2008, 01:36
Actually in terms of things the license isn't all that bad.
Wow, so you need to contact an authentication server to confirm you own it, which is a method of dealing with all the people with cracked versions of AB2.

Then of course you don't need to keep paying, you just lose access to the update system after a year, but you can still use datafiles.

If I was still playing 40k a lot I'd probably have shelled out for it myself.
But since I've not played since sometime last year, it's not a pressing purchase.

Just remember kids, when the majority of your customers are pirates, you're entitled to make things difficult in order to get your money back.

Kirasu
13-09-2008, 01:39
whats wrong with the license? Ive had AB3 since it came out .. great use of 30$.. It's 99% correct and I can make an army in 2 minutes

You can manually update everything at the 40k website.. Thats like saying use an abacus because its cheaper than a calculator

Alessander
13-09-2008, 01:53
Armybuilder is great because it's used for near every miniature game out there, from 40K to Warmachine to BFG to Warhammer Ancients.

GW's army program is a joke, as you need to buy TWO of them to be able to use all army lists, it's infrequently updated, and can only list 40K. For half that cost, Armybuilder can list every GW game (WFB included) and every non-GW game as well.

Corporal Chaos
13-09-2008, 02:00
To the OP. I feel that AB 3 is the best resource out there and I have no other programs to recomend as most have faded into obscurity. the GW programs are so out of date and have no support that I would avoid them. For the price and function AB 3 is the choice for me. And all updates and files are available for free manually after your license has expired, if you let it go. Good luck.

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 02:07
AB also has the drawback of "if GW decide to go for the datafile makers, we're ****ed" drawback.

Those things aren't 100% legit, y'know.

Kirasu
13-09-2008, 02:10
Buying stuff on ebay isnt 100% legit too if you ask 100 peopleand get 100 answers.. So what? Topic isn't if AB is legit, its if there is an alternative, which there isnt

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 02:17
Buying stuff on ebay isnt 100% legit too if you ask 100 peopleand get 100 answers.. So what? Topic isn't if AB is legit, its if there is an alternative, which there isnt

Except Armies/Enemies of the Imperium, a few other computer programs (I recall one called Forge or something), spreadsheet applications, text editors, pen and paper, a calculator.

Gangremond
13-09-2008, 03:13
AotI and EotI are dead per a redshirt from Gamesday Chicago

Unamed Consript
13-09-2008, 03:18
I am really really really good at math and can do it all in my head (a lot of it anyway) and so i find it easiest to use a piece of paper and a pen. All that other stuff is WAY too complicated to use.

Number 24
13-09-2008, 03:57
Spreadsheet is the easiest way to go right now. You can even find downloads of premade spreadsheets for army list building if you don't want to spend too much time setting it up yourself. I look at the Army Builder screen shots and it makes my eyes bleed (*****). There's nothing in there I can't do myself in any spreadsheet application with a little bit of data entry. My long-term plan (as soon as I'm not buried in work... which might be a year or two) is to write my own app for personal use (software developer in a previous career).

I'll have the point value info for units and upgrades (only for the armies I have codices for, don't have the info for the others) loaded into the database and a database of models I own with possible points value configurations. As I make army lists, the app will tell me what models to break out and what box I'm keeping them in. This is the real key feature for me--I store everything in padded boxes due to a complete lack of shelf space and no desire to dust constantly. I label the boxes as best as I can, but as the armies grow so does the confusion especially since I move things around sometimes to keep forces better organized for sudden deployment (which boxes do I grab on my way out the door). I figure I can hack up a quick barcode printing system, label the bottoms of my minis' bases and use the firewire camera on my computer to "scan" said barcodes (easy, been done many times in other apps) and have an easy to use database of all of my minis and where they're currently stored as well as what army lists they're a part of.

Now if only I could dig myself out from under the mountain of work I have, I could actually get down to writing this. There's no way it will happen this year so that's just more time for me to pipe dream about the feature set.

EmperorEternalXIX
13-09-2008, 04:07
Asmadi obviously has something against AB. Either that or he works for Open Office... hehe.

Without a doubt AB3 is the best thing going. As for the license...I have had it for 2+ years now, on one license. I have access to a second license which, as yet, I haven't had to use. If you ever need it again, you can simply input your info there and they will e-mail you the key. No BS. I don't know what this license issue is...I've had no trouble with mine at all.

And for what it's worth...having a ready-made update ready typically on the dot about a month after a codex release is pretty nice. After 2+ years of making lists, I'd say it was 30 bucks well spent.

chromedog
13-09-2008, 05:27
I use both Excel and AB3. I see nothing wrong with the licencing of AB3 (ooh, you have to have it authenticated for full use. Gee, doesn't windows do that? Office? Besides, with the licence system of AB3, you do get two licences for your money. That's two separate copies on different computers. Better than my copy of windows OR office).

I prefer Excel, but then, I've written my own custom AB routines for it, with drop-downs and auto-sum and the rest of the bells and whistles. It took me a couple of weeks and was also used to get me a pass in my computer class (assignment).

I use AB because I'm the lead TO at my club, and most of our tourney players use AB to generate lists. It's handy to verify points and check for illegal entries/combos.)

AB was also considerably cheaper than Excel (even the student version of Office costs more). Yes, OpenOffice has their own calc - which is free, but some macros WILL not work on it.

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 08:17
I use both Excel and AB3. I see nothing wrong with the licencing of AB3 (ooh, you have to have it authenticated for full use. Gee, doesn't windows do that? Office? Besides, with the licence system of AB3, you do get two licences for your money. That's two separate copies on different computers. Better than my copy of windows OR office).

Because that's a horrible licence still?

Because allowing licences like that to stay in use is leading down a path to even worse DRM?

Seriously, unless they themselves are providing constant feature updates (which they are not - they do not create the datasheets), there is utterly no need for a licence that requires anything but a CD Key check.

chromedog
13-09-2008, 09:03
It boils down to: It's a niche tool, and the market has already determined that people will pay the set price. You DON'T have to buy it OR use it. Otherwise, your only other choice is to DIY (due to the rather draconian controls GW set in place, and their crappy own label product.).

Pen, paper and calculator (although, given the literacy/numeracy standards in some areas, this is perhaps asking a bit much) or DIY spreadsheet are really your only other options. If GW were serious about "their hobby", they'd support their own product, but they're only in business to sell miniatures and please their shareholders - not their customers.

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 09:18
It boils down to: It's a niche tool, and the market has already determined that people will pay the set price. You DON'T have to buy it OR use it. Otherwise, your only other choice is to DIY (due to the rather draconian controls GW set in place, and their crappy own label product.).

Pen, paper and calculator (although, given the literacy/numeracy standards in some areas, this is perhaps asking a bit much) or DIY spreadsheet are really your only other options. If GW were serious about "their hobby", they'd support their own product, but they're only in business to sell miniatures and please their shareholders - not their customers.

I refuse to use it on principle.

The only reason I prefer not to use pen and paper personally is because my handwriting is horrid.

((Incidentally, I can now do all that on my new PDA. :D))

Incidentally, if GW did come out and create their own, properly updated program, I have no doubt that they'd also shut down the Army Builder datafiles.

th7dude
13-09-2008, 10:20
I appreciate you can use word/open office/notepad etc. I was referring to dedicated programs that store codex details in advance. So AB is the only one left? I vaguely remember one called Roll Call. I assume that one has gone too?

march10k
13-09-2008, 10:37
Pssst. I have an alternative. Call me old-fashioned, but I've never used anything more than scratch paper, a pencil, and a calculator. The most high-tech I've gone is that when I'm done, I'll type it into excell for a nice, easy to read, printout for my opponent.

ChrisAsmadi
13-09-2008, 10:42
I appreciate you can use word/open office/notepad etc. I was referring to dedicated programs that store codex details in advance. So AB is the only one left? I vaguely remember one called Roll Call. I assume that one has gone too?

I appear to have one called Forge installed (Or, atleast, it's in a folder called 'Army Builders' on the Programs Menu). I can't vouch as to whether or not it's any good, mind.

Temprus
13-09-2008, 17:38
..great use of 30$..

Where can you get it for $30?

Surgency
13-09-2008, 18:00
Yes, it's the only one that currently has all the codex information out. I also vaguely recall a program called Forge, or something of that nature, but it died out a long time ago.

GildorInglorion
13-09-2008, 21:45
I've nothing against spreadsheets, I use them a lot, but I think that AB3 is great, the licensing system is nothing strange, and (most of all) the support is great. I changed my home computer one time, I have been forced to substitute the motherboard another time, and they ALWAYS migrated the license for me, for free of course. I am a very happy customer.

Just my 2 cents.

Nick

matt_17
13-09-2008, 22:51
I actually enjoy sitting down with my codex and some paper and writing the thing out (not the codex, the army list)... does that make me unusual?

Vic
13-09-2008, 23:57
Because that's a horrible licence still?

Because allowing licences like that to stay in use is leading down a path to even worse DRM?

Seriously, unless they themselves are providing constant feature updates (which they are not - they do not create the datasheets), there is utterly no need for a licence that requires anything but a CD Key check.

Oh please, that sounds like a hollow argument espoused by freetards (not calling you that however, just thats how is sounds). The one's doing the greatest lamenting are those who'd like to just have to deal with a key that can then be uploaded to warez sites and stolen (Im sorry, "lent") enmasse.

I do applaud you for standing on principle and going along with using OO, but I do wonder if AB3 were leaked free, would you change your mind?