PDA

View Full Version : What is the point of Biovores?



Ostwind Apocalypse
27-10-2008, 20:35
I have a large tyranid army at the moment (about 7500 pts) but i have never seen the point of Biovores (tyranicus Patris Boletus). The reasons why:
- They take up a heavy support choice
- They are useless in close combat
- They are easy to kill at range (only toughness 4 with 6+ save)
- Sporemines hardly ever hit anything + count as kill points
- Bioacid mines are useless, frag are alright and onlt toxin are any good. You might as well deepstrike toxic sporemines which have a greater chance of hitting :mad:
- All biovores in a brood have to choose the same kind of sporemine.


Are there any advantages atall??

Dvil
27-10-2008, 20:43
Since rending now only gives +D3 on the AP roll, I've added 3 boivores to my 2000pt all-genestealer list, to give me a modicum of anti-tank power.
However, at anything below 2000pts, I don't bother, I just take loads of stealers to keep the pts/model ratio down. I do agree with you, we have far better units in the Tyranid army.

The problem the biovore faces is that it can do 3 different jobs - poorly. And can only do one of those per game (cannot, for instance, start firing anti-infantry mines when the tanks are gone). However, we have units that can do those jobs far more efficiently. For example, what tank is going to argue with a warp blast from a 'throape? And how many guardsmen have you met who would rather face a squad of genestealers than a squad of biovores?

penguin663
27-10-2008, 20:48
I have a large tyranid army at the moment (about 7500 pts) but i have never seen the point of Biovores (tyranicus Patris Boletus). The reasons why:
- They take up a heavy support choice
- Their sporemines cost points per sporemine
- They are useless in close combat
- They are easy to kill at range (only toughness 4 with 6+ save)
- Sporemines hardly ever hit anything + count as kill points
- Bioacid mines are useless, frag are alright and onlt toxin are any good. You might as well deepstrike toxic sporemines which have a greater chance of hitting :mad:
- All biovores in a brood have to choose the same kind of sporemine.


Are there any advantages atall??

-Thay are cheap filler units
-Spore mines only count as KP if you are playing a muppit
-they shouldn't be in combat
- hide them
-You pay for the spore mine type you will use not for each type you use
-You can pick more than one type(I think)
-They will hit a lot more things now
-Bio acid are not useless if you shoot 3 biovore

Grimtuff
27-10-2008, 21:39
I am constantly left wondering how many of these "This unit is crap/uber!!" (delete as applicable) threads there would be if people actually bothered to read the rules correctly?

Biovores paying for each Spore Mine individually? I'll put that in my "facepalm" section of random gaming stories I think.....

MarkNorfolk
27-10-2008, 21:47
A biovore destroyed my Baneblade in one shot. Not bad for "crap"!

Cheers
Mark

Tymell
27-10-2008, 21:47
Well, for me personally they're useful because I like the models and concept. That's all I need to take a unit. They're also good for me because I don't like the bio-weapon bits around right now, so I take as few of those as possible. I do like the Biovores though, so they allow me a bit of ranged power.

As for tactical ability, they might not leap out at you as being as great as some other units, but how something looks on paper isn't always easy to translate directly into game effectiveness. Played right, the biovores can be an invaluable asset to a Nid force, applying pressure just where it's needed with little fear of retaliation. That can be vital to the swarm as a whole.

And I just find 'em fun to play, with the mines floating around :p

As to the specific OP criticisms:


- They take up a heavy support choice

Whether that's a negative point purely depends on your style of play.


- They are useless in close combat

So are a lot of things that aren't meant to do anything in close combat.


- They are easy to kill at range (only toughness 4 with 6+ save)

Only if you let the enemy get into such a position. They're meant to be living artillery, not battle tanks, that's a carnifex's job.


- Sporemines hardly ever hit anything + count as kill points

I've never had any particular trouble with them. As for kill points, I didn't think they did count. Even if they do, I never use the rule, and can't bring myself to sympathise with anyone who does (no offence intended).


- Bioacid mines are useless, frag are alright and onlt toxin are any good. You might as well deepstrike toxic sporemines which have a greater chance of hitting :mad:

And if you did, you'd use up a fast attack slot instead, probably getting fewer actual casualties overall. The differing mine types are all useful in the right circumstances.


- All biovores in a brood have to choose the same kind of sporemine.

According to you only one type is any good anyway :p

I don't think biovores are amazing, but I don't think they're useless either. They're the sort of unit that doesn't jump out at you as one of the best, but might win players over on factors other than tactical ability. There are certainly issues with them, but they've helped me out a fair few times.

Supremearchmarshal
27-10-2008, 22:05
Well Biovores are to only artillery in the Tyranid army so I guess that counts for something. They're fairly accurate and the Mines keep floating around even if they miss,k but the mines themselves are actually quite weak.
The 5th edition has hurt them real bad, however. Rending nerf + Kill Points means they can actually lose you the game because every time the fire they give a Kill point.

Ostwind Apocalypse
27-10-2008, 22:22
ty for commets so far im have seen some advatages so far
that are there cheap and can luch 3 spore mines a turn for the whole game
and 48" range is ok just so far no conviced there worth me investing yet ^^ look foward to see if any more advatages

max the dog
27-10-2008, 23:17
You're right, they're pretty much useless now. They weren't always so useless, they rocked in the last codex when they had better templates. Right now I only take them if I know I'm going to face a static gunline army or fight a megasized apocalypse battle. Nids excel when throwing lots of dice around and the biovore is no exception. I fought an apocalypse battle last year where my opponent allowed me to have nid warriors stand in for biovores. Freed from the 0-1 restriction I used 12 to cover the battlefield with spore mines. Even if they only caused on average 1 failed save per spore mine having that many tossed at you freaked them out.

stroller
27-10-2008, 23:56
I'm a biovore fan. Mines drifting usefully diverts my opponents. While it might be sensible to take deep breath and take the hit, I find people try to avoid them. That puts me in the driving seat.... you do have to choose your mines... but you also have flexibility in that choice. Mine sit at the back with a cheap synapse critter and pump distraction away all game...

Bregalad
28-10-2008, 00:23
1.) The current models look nice and add flavour to the army (wandering spore mines!).
2.) Biovores may change the way, your opponent places his army, mostly: wider apart to counter the template weapon. Hiding closely packed behind cover is now more dangerous.

Other than that, there are more competitive choices.

Supremearchmarshal
28-10-2008, 01:15
1.) The current models look nice

This is the first time I've heard that. Honest.

HsojVvad
28-10-2008, 01:24
Witch models? The new one or the old one?

Supremearchmarshal
28-10-2008, 01:48
From when are the "new" models? I admit that I don't know much about the models simply since it's been ages since I've seen one on the battlefield...
But the Tyranid players I know usually describe it as "goofy".

dblaz3r
28-10-2008, 02:07
Compared to the old model I much prefer the newer one. Even if it's sitting at the back of my cupboard with all my other nid stuff :o

onnotangu
28-10-2008, 02:09
they are easier to hide that a carnifex. they are infatry which means they can contest objectives. they can run. the spore mines can contest objectives. frag mine against eldar and ig and orks seem to work quite well. Apoc boards hate spore mines esp when you can bring a literal rain of spores. ( I used a shower of 30 spores to cover the table) once they are on the board: "Oh look floating +4 coversaves!"

ehlijen
28-10-2008, 02:22
Remember that barrage weapons may ignore some cover saves. That means Meqs might get NO save from the ap3 one.

The AT one could be nice now that everyone complains that nids have no tanks busters anymore...(not true, but meh)

Frags? erm...they're cheap?

Unfortunately the whole what can/can't spore mines do list of questions that RAW can only answer counterintiutively means that spore mines have basically been changed into a 'opponents permission only' unit, as without prior discussion about how spore mines work in 5th, fights will ensue during a game when a spore min runs/contests/gives up a kp/etc

Bregalad
28-10-2008, 03:27
From when are the "new" models? I admit that I don't know much about the models simply since it's been ages since I've seen one on the battlefield...
But the Tyranid players I know usually describe it as "goofy".
The new models introduced for the Medusa campaign are the first Biovores I like, from design and size.

catbarf
28-10-2008, 03:32
A carnifex is just an amazing unit and Zoanthropes offer ranged AT ability that the rest of the army sorely lacks. Whether they're good or not, there are better alternatives.

Tsear
28-10-2008, 04:07
Yeah, biovores were already terrible and got worse in 5th.

cailus
28-10-2008, 04:18
I think thy're funny cause they have huge nutsacks!

devik
28-10-2008, 06:27
I think thy're funny cause they have huge nutsacks!

That was an important comment, and it needed to be said, cailus. :p

Brother Caine
28-10-2008, 06:50
My brother plays 'Nids and is a biovore maniac! If he is playing a low points game he takes 3 of them and just fills the neutral zone between us with spores. At first it seems like a mistake, But let me tell you it can prove to be a serious obstacle for troops trying to get to an objective or into a decent firing position. They also lend a little indirect anti-tank firepower to the army.

Jellicoe
28-10-2008, 09:19
In the previous Tyranid codex I never left home without at least a pair, with the larger templates they did serious damage. Only used them a couple of times outside apocalypse since then. They were distinctly underwhelming and did very little. I would take a Zoanthrope with synapse and warp blast over a biovore any day

alphastealer
28-10-2008, 09:40
I actually like biovores but would prefer them to have retained their bigger template from the previous edition.

That being said I don't think they are worse now. They no longer need synapse hanging around, the template rule change means they hit roughly the same number of models as the old rules.

They are also the only nid artilary that can fire at 48.

Frag mines = good vs GEQ
Toxin mines = good vs high toughness and open topped vehicles
Bio acid mines = good vs light vehicles and MEQ

I have had mixed success with a maxed out mine army:
3x biovores with bio acid mines (the best) 3 mines per turn
3x fast attack slots of mines (3x frag/slot) so 9 mines
3x double scything carnifexes with spore cysts (3 more toxin mines per turn)

In a 6 turn game that is a potential of (3x6)+(3x3)+(3x6) = 45 mines!
Add some deathspitter warriors and a double devourer tyrant and a few broods of cheap gaunts and you are in business. Maybe even a lictor to re-roll the reserve mines.

I was proud of being able to outgun Tau in the previous nid codex, I am convinced it is still possivle in the newer one.

ehlijen
28-10-2008, 10:02
Biovores are barrage. That means the can ignore some cover and cause pinning. No other HS option for nids does both at that range. Whether that's worth it I don't know, but it is something that's not found in other units.

Lord Damocles
28-10-2008, 10:17
I can't say much about using them, but I can say that the one time I've ever faced biovores with my Necrons, a unit of 3 was a nightmare!

Sitting at the back of cover there was nothing much I could do to get rid of them, and they were forcing me to take pining tests left right and centre.

Shangrila
28-10-2008, 10:36
They may be useless but i hate them so i go out of my way to make sure they die quickly...even at the cost of objectives.

Supremearchmarshal
28-10-2008, 12:12
The new models introduced for the Medusa campaign are the first Biovores I like, from design and size.

Thanks. Well IMO they're not exactly great, but certainly better than any of the older models.