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Phenski
28-10-2008, 06:20
Not sure if this has been posted at all so ignore/delete/burn where necessary...

Who here has played with Assault on Black Reach using only the contents, as presented in the mini booklet, and actually had a win with the Orks???

anyone? anyone?

GW have made the best 40K money-for-models set so far, and it is a great buy for people beginning to play but im sure at least 95% of new people that have played it as their first foray into the system are now going to play Marines coz theyre so bent....

devik
28-10-2008, 06:26
As it says right in the rulebook, the points are not balanced. They acknowledge and explain this.

Ganymene
28-10-2008, 06:30
And this is supposed to surprise us how?

GW needs to push their poster boys. They need to make Marines seem like the most awesome army in the history of the universe.


Non-Marine armies only exist so Marines have somebody to completely dominate.

That's just how it is. Sorry.

Phenski
28-10-2008, 07:00
Yeah i know they love their smurfs more than anything else, but all other 40K box sets produced in the past have had alot better balance... this just seems too blatant... even for GW

cailus
28-10-2008, 07:01
As it says right in the rulebook, the points are not balanced. They acknowledge and explain this.

It's still going to be a disincentive for people getting into Orks.

Apocalypse
28-10-2008, 07:08
Hmmm... I don't know what to say. There are already SOO many orks in that box.

alex03
28-10-2008, 08:05
And this is supposed to surprise us how?

GW needs to push their poster boys. They need to make Marines seem like the most awesome army in the history of the universe.



That's just how it is. Sorry.

If only this were true. Marines are a mediocre army at best, even with the new codex. Want powergamming? Play against some Eldar or Tyranids. Geez get over the marine hate already.

Fo'Shizzle
28-10-2008, 08:08
Yeah i know they love their smurfs more than anything else, but all other 40K box sets produced in the past have had alot better balance... this just seems too blatant... even for GW

are you serious??

hahaha 20 dark eldar warriors with a max of 4 splinter cannons vs 1 marines with a missile launcher, a flamer and a land speeder?? yeah real balanced hahahahahaha

Bloodknight
28-10-2008, 09:02
Exactly. The 3rd edition box was a lot more unbalanced. I think there weren't even 4 splinter cannons in the box, only 2, but I could be wrong. It's been 10 years. However, with the DE in that box it was completely impossible to win since the landspeeder outranged the DE by 12", they could theoretically never even fire at it.

taffeh
28-10-2008, 09:36
I won with the Orks, and seen plenty more people win with them....

Ok - we were teaching the other people how to play :D

TimLeeson
28-10-2008, 09:53
What could of they added to balance things out for the Orks ? Considering its already jam-packed, and I assume they didnt add terrain because theres too much sprues already, what ork stuff could of been added ? Grots ?

Xenobane
28-10-2008, 11:41
Exactly how much is the selection of models in AoBR worth? And you're complaining the points values don't add up?

Here's an idea: why don't you put something from the Marines aside, and play like that?

Kahadras
28-10-2008, 11:53
GW needs to push their poster boys. They need to make Marines seem like the most awesome army in the history of the universe.

Oh come on. If GW hadn't pointed out that AoBR was unbalanced then I might believe this. The fact is that the starter box set is just there to provide the rules and a basic force to start building upon. If anything people should be complaining about the obvious marketing stratergy behind the unbalanced forces meaning you had to start adding to your force straight away.

Kahadras

Phenski
28-10-2008, 13:11
Maybe not added anything to the orks, but maybe replaced the marine termies with more standard marines or scouts or something....

Its possible, but tough, for the deffkoptas to wipe out the dread (and you cant leave it up to the warboss cos he gets pasted 10 times out of 9) and leaving the boyz and nobz to take out the terms, marines and captain...

oh and the dark eldar starter was super fun! only 2 splinter cannons tho...

marv335
28-10-2008, 13:13
at the store I go to Orks seem to be winning far more often.

Bookwrak
28-10-2008, 13:18
Maybe not added anything to the orks, but maybe replaced the marine termies with more standard marines or scouts or something....
Aha-ha-ha. That'd be utterly ridiculous. One of the strongest selling points of AoBR has been zing! Cheap termintors!

I fail to see what the issue is. The book comes right out and says that there are more points of marines then orks, so how hard is it to just play with less marines?

Templar Ben
28-10-2008, 13:35
Exactly how much is the selection of models in AoBR worth? And you're complaining the points values don't add up?

Here's an idea: why don't you put something from the Marines aside, and play like that?

If you pull out the Dreadnought the points are much closer.

Phenski
28-10-2008, 13:39
Re; Bookwrak. It aint a bitching session, every member on this website knows gw 's propensity for marine love, and the box is awesome value.... im just a balance kinda guy!
I havnt seen the orks win a game yet, all our group have played, swapped and replayed but no greenskin love with the contents of this box.
Which is quite funny cos in the standard game, orks kick ceramite butt all over the flocked ground!!!

And if we do have a bitch-out, why do they keep putting those stupid plastic red chopsticks in there?? they always get horribly broken after a drinking session.... ::grin::

Eryx_UK
28-10-2008, 13:50
I have seen a fair few games played with the AoBR set and in over half of them, the Orks won. It all depends on how the two armies are played I guess.

burning crome
28-10-2008, 14:18
It seems that you’ve missed the point of why the box contains what it dose, witch is to teach people how to play 40k. The reason for the terminators is that they represent a type of unit which you (as a 40ker) will face on a regular basis. Think about it:-

Ork boy= horde troops
Ork nobs= combat elites choice
Ork death cop= fast vehicles and squadrons rules
SM tactical squad= an elite versatile troop choice
SM terminators= elite shooting/ combat squad + DS rules + good armour save and invulnerable save rules
SM dread= walker type vehicle + a sort of half way house to learn about HS choices.

The only three a can think of as missing are physic’s, transport, and artillery. I think if they add a trukk it would tilt the balance the other way, leaving the other two which they did include since their all ready tons in the box.

Leunam
28-10-2008, 14:47
And this is supposed to surprise us how?

GW needs to push their poster boys. They need to make Marines seem like the most awesome army in the history of the universe.

That's just how it is. Sorry.

This is all this sub-forum has become, complaints against Marines. How sad.

Did no one on here play Battle for Macragge? I played with a friend when I was getting into it and the missions weren't easy to beat as Marines.

Griefbringer
28-10-2008, 14:49
And if we do have a bitch-out, why do they keep putting those stupid plastic red chopsticks in there?? they always get horribly broken after a drinking session.... ::grin::

To give people something that can be used for building terrain, eg. a ruined brick building?

freddythebig
28-10-2008, 14:52
I actually bought the AoBR box to add to my existing Marines and intended to sell or swap the Orks. This hasn't happened according to plan though, as I have now been encouraged to start am Ork army, something that I previously wasn't particularly interested in.
It seems that I am not the only one either as there seems to be a number of new Ork players since AoBR came out.

Vaktathi
28-10-2008, 15:08
If only this were true. Marines are a mediocre army at best, even with the new codex. Want powergamming? Play against some Eldar or Tyranids. Geez get over the marine hate already.

For DA/BA you may be right, but certainly not for CSM's and SM's, both are more than capable of powergaming equally as well as Eldar or Nids (now that Skimmerspam isn't auto-win anymore)

As bad as the CSM codex was fluff and option wise, its not exactly lacking in power builds, and certainly the new SM codex isn't.

Fist of Crimson
28-10-2008, 15:47
It's simple really.

Nobble the dreadnaught with the deffkopters early and orks should win.

Let the dreadnaught get into combat and the orks should lose.

Alternatively, don't use the dreadnaught ;)

Bunnahabhain
28-10-2008, 16:30
Alternatively, to save on paint costs, and to follow the received wisdom of the recent 40k general section, all you have to do to absolutely guarantee the Orks win is paint the marines green.

By using the DA codex for your marines, they are "massifly nErfed, and cant winn ever" (to paraphrase every DA thread for the last few months), and so the Orks win.

Kellindel
28-10-2008, 16:48
are you serious??

hahaha 20 dark eldar warriors with a max of 4 splinter cannons vs 1 marines with a missile launcher, a flamer and a land speeder?? yeah real balanced hahahahahaha

Darnnit, you beat me to it....

Yeah 3rd Edition was really bad for the Dark Eldar. Granted it was a Boon for me cause no one wanted their dark eldar.

So look who collected all the free stuff. Then they started to think that just because I had more of them I would not be winning.

Killed them all!!!! MOOHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Lisiecki
28-10-2008, 17:22
Not sure if this has been posted at all so ignore/delete/burn where necessary...
Who here has played with Assault on Black Reach using only the content, as presented in the mini booklet, and actually had a win with the Orks???
anyone? anyone?
GW have made the best 40K money-for-models set so far, and it is a great buy for people beginning to play but im sure at least 95% of new people that have played it as their first foray into the system are now going to play Marines coz theyre so bent....


i could never beat all the geanstealers, even WITH the terminators

Supremearchmarshal
28-10-2008, 18:30
I believe the SM will win more often simply because they're more forgiving of tactical errors. Since Assault on Black Reach is meant for newbies that's hardly surprising.

Awesome Mike
28-10-2008, 20:10
One thing nobody said was that the Orks may be less points but you save more money on Orks than Marines. Compared to the boxes of guys Orks are $245 and Marines are $195. I guess GW figured that's enough incentive to want the Orks and trade the Marines away.

Kahadras
28-10-2008, 21:12
I believe the SM will win more often simply because they're more forgiving of tactical errors.

That's a myth IMHO. Mistakes will bite you in the ass just as fast as they will for any other army and the fact that each Marine squad costs quite a lot can actualy hurt a Marine player more than it could for other armies.

Kahadras

EVIL INC
28-10-2008, 21:40
To the original post,
I have YET to actually see ANYONE buy the box to play the scenarios. Each and every single person I have seen buy the box has bought it for the rulebook, models and templates. So far the only scenario books I have seen are the ones in the trash can.
Then again, ork players are a different breed of player. Just as it takes a certain mindset to play gaurd, so too with orks. So far, I have yet to see an ork players who is all about balence and fairness. All the ones I have seen are about coolness value, modeling and fun. They usually just dont care if thier army id not the super-uber-army-o-doom. Course, I am sure there are some, just that in my experience they are the far minority in that I have yet to see any in 20+ years of playing.

ColdWind
28-10-2008, 22:50
All this could have been resolved by the simple addition of a cardboard Ork Dreadnought, A la 2nd edition.

Templar Ben
28-10-2008, 22:52
To be fair though the scenario book for AoBR is crap compared to BfM. BfM missions built upon each other and then there was the 6 additional ones available as well.

There are no scenarios in the AoBR book at all. There are some pages on fluff and a little bit about the order of play but they don't have scenarios like in the old book. This is not much of a starter set really (more like a way for existing people to play) since the last box slowly introduced movement, shooting, assault and blast markers and templates so that by the time you finished you knew how everything worked. The new one just expects you to read the entire rulebook (or more likely to already know how to play).

Lord Raneus
29-10-2008, 00:53
Yeah i know they love their smurfs more than anything else, but all other 40K box sets produced in the past have had alot better balance... this just seems too blatant... even for GW

This is how I see it.

Sprue space is limited, and while a Space Marine takes up the same sprue size as an Ork he costs nearly three times as much. Also, both these armies need to be legal, which is something we most certainly did not see in BfM. So we're looking at an Ork Warboss and Space Marine Captain (Warboss is bigger than Captain, takes more space.) Followed by a minimum of ten Tactical Marines and at least twenty Ork Boyz. However, 10 Tactical Marines =/= 20 Ork Boyz in terms of points. The Captain is also more expensive. Here's where we start to see imbalances.

Then, there's only sprue space for 1 squad of elites. Space Marine Terminators and Ork Nobz are iconics of that race (and also rock hard troops) so they go in. However, there's equal numbers of each even though terminators are far more expensive, again due to space.

And then the Deffkoptas which again took far more sprue space than the Dreadnought IIRC. So while you get less points, you got more actual space dedicated to the Orks I believe if I recollect the sprues correctly. GW did the best they could with the available space they had.

Let's not complain about an amazing-value box set.

Zherghegg
29-10-2008, 03:12
It's simple really.

Nobble the dreadnaught with the deffkopters early and orks should win.

Let the dreadnaught get into combat and the orks should lose.

Alternatively, don't use the dreadnaught ;)


This is true. As an Ork player, i get slaughtered whenever the dreadnought comes into play. Try and knock it out immediately, multi melta's kill warbosses dead!
Must more fun to play without dread or deffkoptas.