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El Haroldo
03-11-2008, 00:58
Yesterday I played a game, 1k vs 1k against an old opponent, with my witch hunters, against his new army, the devious eldar.

It was over in 4 turns. The action was all on his side of the board, and he kept his squads inside/behind buildings and forests despite knowing my sisters were thrashing their rhinos to get there, loaded up with hot flamey goodness.

My opponent has more 40k experience than me, although he usually plays Tau and DE. We've played many times, always with my sisters. He knows what to expect.

I won by kill pionts, 4-0, but I felt like i hadn't had much of a game. I wanted to give him a bit of advice because he was playing in this totally defensive, turtled up style with an army totally unsuited for it. I didn't want to come off as patronising though.

Anyone else experience frustration at someone who basically makes it easy for you to win? how do you deal with it?

Victomorga
03-11-2008, 01:14
I don't know what "naff" means, but i don't think you would have been out of line making a tactical recommendation, as long as you weren't condescending about it. be sure to make it sound like an alternative idea or a recommendation, as opposed to a correction or as if you were pointing out something obvious.

if you have the time, you might want to try offering to switch forces with him, and show him how he could make better use of his army. once again, you need to make sure you don't come off as a jerk who just wants to beat a guy and then do it all over again with his own force.

Theadium
03-11-2008, 01:16
I have the same problem with my friend now actually. The kid is picking races that aren't easy to use and because of it is becoming less interested in the game. Hes big into Flames of War and tries to use the same tactics in 40k, which in my opinion doesn't work. This game requires a massive arsenal of tactics to play competitively I think. I will be very interested in seeing where this topic goes!

Occulto
03-11-2008, 01:42
against his new army, the devious eldar.

I don't really see what the problem is. He's obviously learning how to use a new army.

Chances are, if he's got enough experience, he'll know he should've played more aggressively.

kaimarion
03-11-2008, 01:54
I know what your talking about saddly :( ,some of the players at my local club are quite easy to beat and it makes for a poor game.Every week I go there I always use a fully khornate army list so they know what to expect but I'am still thrashing them.
The worst one I've had so far is when I bet one of my younger opponents by 1000+pts in a 1500pts game. The main problem at my club is that most of the experianced players play Fantasy instead of 40k and I don't really have much of a Fantasy army.

Chem-Dog
03-11-2008, 02:45
Anyone else experience frustration at someone who basically makes it easy for you to win? how do you deal with it?

I discuss my tactics with them as I go "This squad's moving here so I can charge them next turn if I get a decent roll when they run" and then do the same with their turn "You know I'll charge you if you go there...." , I never tell somebody what to do though, lay out the options and give them the choice, some of the best learning you can do is by getting it wrong.

I'm also totally up front about my army composition, what's where and what units can do.
I don't mind doing an action or two out of sequence if they forget to move something or shoot with something either.
In short play the game with the frame of mind that you want the other person to enjoy it as much as you.

TheDarkDuke
03-11-2008, 02:53
I have always felt the best way to bring up such a topic is not to recommend right away but to start off my inquiring as to what plan were you using. This starts off a suggestion in the positive. Perhaps he was trying to bait you into a bad position to strike with some nasty Eldar combat units, but failed to make a critical move, or he misjudged the distance and had to wing it on the fly.

Then you can suggest something as you get a feel for perhaps what he/she was attempting to do/thinking at the time.

Sekhmet
03-11-2008, 04:27
I know what your talking about saddly :( ,some of the players at my local club are quite easy to beat and it makes for a poor game.Every week I go there I always use a fully khornate army list so they know what to expect but I'am still thrashing them.
The worst one I've had so far is when I bet one of my younger opponents by 1000+pts in a 1500pts game. The main problem at my club is that most of the experianced players play Fantasy instead of 40k and I don't really have much of a Fantasy army.

I'd recommend to you: Taking 1200 pts vs their 1500 pts, but DO NOT TELL THEM. Ever. If you lose, say good game and that's that. If you win, same thing. Don't tell them you were under points if you lost as the reason you lost, nor rub it in their face that you had a huge pt disadvantage when you won.

Or play a 1500 pt list against a 1750 pt list - I do this a lot. Putting yourself at a disadvantage lets you play your absolute best and still get a close game if you find your opponents aren't quite up to speed with fine tuning their list and/or tactics.

Lord Cook
03-11-2008, 04:58
Most people are fine with constructive criticism, so long as it's presented well. Certainly worth a go.

harrytheschmuck
03-11-2008, 10:23
ive found this to, what makes it worce is when they also know there going to loose by turn 3 and they just turn off, not watching the game, talking to there mates, taking long toilet breaks etc when u just want to be done with the game.

but whats even worce than that is when they get mad with you, the dice or themselfs for the bad luck in game, they dont aim any anger towards you but they get so carried away you can see them starting to loose their head

TheLionReturns
03-11-2008, 10:59
I fall into the camp of finding being given tactical advice condescending no matter how well intentioned. I think it is poor form to point out tactical errors or better options in game, but I think post game, when you are having a chat, it is perfectly reasonable. Actually I really enjoy discussing with my opponent where I went wrong or where they went wrong after the game. I'm not sure how common this attitude is in wargaming and in my case it may just be influenced by similar attitudes in the sports I play.

As for weaker opponents, have you considered fielding a weaker list against them, or even taking a smaller army (ie fewer points). Obviously this has to be done in a sensitive way, you don't want this to be taken as an insult.

vyper
03-11-2008, 10:59
@ Sekhmet:

I don't think this is such a good idea, a few hundred points can be really quite noticable.

If they do ask to look at your army list, or just add it up in their heads (especially if you are a regular opponent, they will know what to expect) and they find out you've been playing underpointed, it would be completely crushing, especially if they've still been losing.

Playing even battles and giving constructive criticism is the way forwards, not much point in teaching someone to beat an army thats already at a disadvantage.

Splata
03-11-2008, 11:01
I'd recommend to you: Taking 1200 pts vs their 1500 pts, but DO NOT TELL THEM. Ever. If you lose, say good game and that's that. If you win, same thing. Don't tell them you were under points if you lost as the reason you lost, nor rub it in their face that you had a huge pt disadvantage when you won.

Or play a 1500 pt list against a 1750 pt list - I do this a lot. Putting yourself at a disadvantage lets you play your absolute best and still get a close game if you find your opponents aren't quite up to speed with fine tuning their list and/or tactics.

That really isn't a bad idea in general. I've done it by accident a few times and it does work itself into a good game on most occasions. It stops you from turning off half way through or feeling guilty if you are thrashing someone and therefore not going for the killing blow when you have the chance.