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RohanCaptain
06-11-2008, 14:48
Hi, after hearing some very sad news of my local shop closing, the only two shops left only support 40k, so I'm thinking about getting into 40k. LOTR being my main game is not very well supported in the US, and Fantasy is fading away around my area.

I have a few questions if you guys don't mind. Please bear in mind I dont know ANYTHING about 40k, so some of the questions might seen stupid.

does 40k have balanced armies?? or is it like Fantasy where one army is alot more powerful than the others?? (I'm not comparing the two, only using Fantasy as reference)

DO 40k armies have different styles of playing like fantasy (Ambush armies, heavy weapons(magic) armies?? or are the armies all pretty much the same, line up and shoot at each other?? (again, please bear with me, I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just don't know anything about 40k)

What would be a good solid 40k with a low number of miniatures, that are mostly elite type units??

Thank you all for your help :)

Vepr
06-11-2008, 15:12
Tyranid MC army often called Nidzilla. Might not win you many friends though but it is an effective army. Deathwing marines. You can make a fairly small mechanized Eldar army that is still good. You can also pack a lot of points and punch chaos marines. You could also make smaller expensive basic marine army thought codex somewhat punishes you now on taking minimum sized troop choices.

TwilightOdyssey
06-11-2008, 15:27
With 5th Edition rules, a very small force it not really recommended, as only Troops count as scoring units. You will want at least 2 Troops choices maxed out. Compared to Fantasy, a 40K army isn't that big.

From what I've played (Witch Hunters, Daemonhunters, Dark Angels, Eldar, Tau, Raven Guard) each army is different in terms of makeup, tactics, and play style.

Most armies of equal points will also be equally matched, but not all.

If you are looking for a lot of versatility with a high number of Elite choices, I would recommend one of the 'newer' Codex armies: Eldar, Orks, Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines.

==Me==
06-11-2008, 15:29
At this point, I'd say 40k has better balance between the armies than Fantasy. There is no uber dominant army (Daemons, VCs) or horribly gimped army (OKs, O&G), but there are varying levels of power based on what sort of list you bring. Chaos Marines, Orks, Space Marines, Eldar, and Tau are all fairly powerful and tend to place well in tournies. IG, Inquisition armies, and Necrons don't do as well but still are viable. You can pick up pretty much any army and be good, so don't worry about that.

Most armies in 40k have a distinctive niche with some variation within the army. Tau are shooty and mobile, IG are static shooty with armor, Marines and Chaos are extremely flexible and can do just about anything, Eldar are a mix of specialists and lightly armored fast units, Daemons always deep strike, Orks run in huge hordes, etc. Just knowing what army someone brings can tell you a lot about what to expect, but each list has a lot of options and viable builds so you can never really know what you'll see (I've seen shooty, elite Ork armies, horde marines, tough Eldar, combat IG, and the like).

If you want an elite army, Space Marines of any flavor fit the bill quite well. They are very flexible, able to function in any battlefield role reliably (if not exceptionally) and a wide variety of units and options to build any sort of army you want. Chaos leans more towards combat and specialists, while loyalist marines are more shooty with a lot more options. Tau and Eldar can also be elite, with a lot of specialists like battlesuits and aspect warriors respectively. Necrons also get a mention, they have a low model count but each trooper is extremely resilient and can even get back up after getting "killed". And, as mentioned before, Tyranids can field an army relying heavily on monstrous creatures, dubbed nidzilla.

RohanCaptain
06-11-2008, 16:01
Thank you very much for your insight/input. Please keep them coming :)

When I played fantasy, I played wood elves. I liked the style of playing, and also the miniatures. I like the ambush/powerful elite units type of playing.

Would Eldar be a good army?? Another reason I'm thinking of fewer miniatures is A. painting time, I have A LOT to paint already and B. Money. I've spent A LOT on LOTR and fantasy, the fantasy might have to go, but I don't wanna spend $500 on a new 40K army, sadly I dont have the money.

Also, is it possible to field an all infantry Eldar army?? no tanks/ships??

thank you

TwilightOdyssey
06-11-2008, 16:06
I play Eldar, and I only field one Falcon! I play Alaitoc, which is very sniper-intensive along with a unit of Harlequins. You can easily do this with an Eldar army.

You would probably want to build something around a Uthwe force: Lot of Guardians with a Seer Council & Eldrad, Wraithlord and Wraithguard if you have the money.

Firstborn
06-11-2008, 16:07
It's possible, but there is no reason why you would want to. Eldar vehicles are awe inspiring.

NearsightedFarseer
06-11-2008, 16:23
I play a biel tan eldar(aspect warrior heavy) and I do alright for my self.
I only field one wave serpent usually, oh and wraithlords are great to use.

incarna
06-11-2008, 16:31
does 40k have balanced armies?? or is it like Fantasy where one army is alot more powerful than the others?? (I'm not comparing the two, only using Fantasy as reference)
In theory 40k armies are balanced. In practice, this is not really the case. I would personally argue that the primary balancing issue is that many codex are very new and many codex are very old. For example, the new Space Marine codex is probably well balanced in comparison to the new Ork codex because both were made for 5th edition (the current edition of the main rules). However, many would argue that the Dark Eldar or Necron codex, two of the older codex, aren’t balanced well with the current set of rules and current codex.

Every codex can build an army capable of defeating any other codex or a well balanced “all comers” list. Some codex are able to be exploited into what is commonly regarded as a power list.



DO 40k armies have different styles of playing like fantasy (Ambush armies, heavy weapons(magic) armies?? or are the armies all pretty much the same, line up and shoot at each other?? (again, please bear with me, I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just don't know anything about 40k)
Oh yes. 40k armies are each unique and can be built in even more unique ways. While certain armies have certain “tradition” play styles, there is no need to adhere to these play styles when building your army. Edlar and Dark Eldar tend to be extremely maneuverable and fast armies but somewhat fragile because they have access to many very fast units but lack an extremely good toughness and armor save. There is NOTHING stopping you from building a very slow, very resilient army with these codex however and it certainly would not be expected on the tabletop.


What would be a good solid 40k with a low number of miniatures, that are mostly elite type units??

I would say Chaos Space Marines and Space Marines tend to have the smallest “model count” armies but almost any army, with the exception of perhaps Orks or Imperial Guard, can field a relatively small force and remain competitive.

Draconian77
06-11-2008, 16:34
I don't know, if you like hit and run you may want to consider the Tau.

They are allowed to move in the movement phase, shoot and then move again in the assault phase. Nothing strikes me as "hit and run" like that does.

Their Hammerhead tank is one of the best frontline tanks in the game and Crisis Suits and Stealthsuits have a staggering amount of firepower at their disposal. Their troops are cheap so you can easily collect a large force if you want or you can take less but stick them in transports to keep them safe until you need them.

TheDarkDuke
06-11-2008, 16:53
Well about 2 years ago I did the same thing. Came over from fantasy, never really dead set on 40k. Now, I tend to enjoy 40k more for two reasons. A) I find the conversions far more easy and varied based mainly on so many interchangeable parts from all armies, and well they are pretty much all within good scale size. B) The games are quicker.

Now I do love fantasy but I get into building a 40k army more because of the ability to convert to a higher level.

Started with Necrons as they were simple to get started with, but didn't let me learn a lot of the game.

Now the biggest thing I needed to adjust when I came over to 40k was, anti tank weapons. All my first lists lacked the ability to take out well really anything tank. This was do to me not being a big fan of Power Fist, Lascannons, plasma and some of the more anti tank vechicles. I was building a Black Templar army and wanted a very "fantasy" 40k army. Well when I was getting squished at first I realized something needed to change. So I incorporated some better anti tank weapons, upping my army with meltas and a vindicator.

My third army came around and was Death Guard (I was always drawn to Nurgle and well when I saw those Forge World conversions, I was finally sold) I wanted a pure infantry army, and really learned from all my tweaking of BT lists.

Well I will be starting my 4th 40k army, Orks very shortly, and again this list may be lacking a bit in the anti tank but I wanted to try something different with a more hoarde style army for a change.

Just as a footnote to the above. I started off GW with HE, and never had another army until OK love OK have over 5k points of them. Started up Skaven with a heavy Pestilence theme. Since then I have not collected any different fantasy army, but have created 3 40k armies, and a 4th is on the way.

However it comes down to what you like the most, for me its the building of my models, not the painting but the converting and building of even the most basic troop. Which as I mentioned earlier, coupled with quicker games... 40k has over taken fantasy for me.

incarna
06-11-2008, 17:02
Thank you very much for your insight/input. Please keep them coming :)

When I played fantasy, I played wood elves. I liked the style of playing, and also the miniatures. I like the ambush/powerful elite units type of playing.

Would Eldar be a good army?? Another reason I'm thinking of fewer miniatures is A. painting time, I have A LOT to paint already and B. Money. I've spent A LOT on LOTR and fantasy, the fantasy might have to go, but I don't wanna spend $500 on a new 40K army, sadly I dont have the money.

Also, is it possible to field an all infantry Eldar army?? no tanks/ships??

thank you

I’ve been playing Eldar for the past 10 years. If you like the ambush/powerful unit play style I think Eldar or Dark Eldar is the way to go for you.

The Eldar codex isn’t new but it is FAR younger than it’s Dark Eldar counterpart so I would advise against Dark Eldar for the moment – aside from my PERSONAL opinion that Dark Eldar models look like junk.

It is possible to field an all-infantry Eldar army but you tend to loose a lot of mobility which would correlate, in my opinion, to a loss of ambush capability.

Firstborn
06-11-2008, 17:22
The Eldar codex isn’t new but it is FAR younger than it’s Dark Eldar counterpart so I would advise against Dark Eldar for the moment – aside from my PERSONAL opinion that Dark Eldar models look like junk.

Except the Dark Eldar book is far more powerful than the Eldar one.

HsojVvad
06-11-2008, 23:23
Well obviously start with the Blackreach box set. You will get marines. put them together but don't paint them yet. Paint your Orks.

The reason I say don't paint them yet is once you play a few games and get a feel for it, by playing and after you read about fluff on the GW site and other forums, you can use your marines for SM, Ultramarines (smurfs as some call them) DA (Dark Angels) BA (Blood Angels) BT (Black Templar) or make your own SM (Space Marine) or you can use them for GK (Grey Knights) or Chaos if you would like.

So many options for your SM models. I like Tyranids since there is lots of customability for them, Orks for the fun wacky factor.

Read up on the GW website, it gives a brief discription of all armies. Bolterandchainsword.com I believe it is, is a great forum for anything Space Marines.

Good luck.

Lungboy
06-11-2008, 23:33
I like the ambush/powerful elite units type of playing.


A Genestealer heavy army might fit you then. They are troops, but have a fairly elite statline and role. They can infiltrate close to the enemy lines, or you can outflank them meaning they come one from one of the board edges in a later turn. When used correctly, with the right upgrades, this can be devastating. Also, they are cheap as hell to get off ebay, are not cheap pointswise so you dont need many to start, and are a doddle to paint so you can burn through them cheaply. They get a fantastic HQ in the shape of the Broodlord, who has his flaws, but is an absolute close combat monster. You can then back them up with fire support from a Carnifex, Warriors and a Hive Tyrant. You have no need to worry about synapse, a low model count, and a fragile but devastating cc army.

Rutteger1
07-11-2008, 01:36
40k is reaally balanced, but you need certain tactics VS. certain enemies. Also, I find the universe really immersive. Im a huuuge LOTR movie and book fan, and i play 40k, but am thinking of lotr on the side maybe... they are all great mah friend.

RohanCaptain
07-11-2008, 03:29
Thank you very much for the insight. I really appreciate it.

I'm leaning towards space marines, or Eldar. If I chose one of the two, what's a good starter set to buy?? around how many points would that be??

I know for fantasy, you start with 500pts, then 1,000pts to kinda get the hang of the game, and this is easily achieved with a batallion box, and a couple of heroes.

thanks :)

someone2040
07-11-2008, 05:01
For Space Marines you'll easily want to go with Black Reach as your first thing. You just get so much in there (Except a valid force, you need 1 more unit of Tacticals or Scouts to get your 2 troops). Given that you said money is an issue, Black Reac is easily the best bang for buck item out by GW.

Sell off the Orks to fund future Space Marine purchases - works out perfectly.

LordofWar1986
07-11-2008, 05:24
I have to agree with someone2040 about the Black Reach set, very good buy for space marines to start off. Let a buddy of yours (who is also new to 40k) use the orks and you both can learn to play at the same time. :)

someone2040
07-11-2008, 05:59
And also at the same time, you get the rules and templates. Being a new player to the game means you'll need the rules at some point or another as well - so makes it an even more impressive starting point.

Lungboy
07-11-2008, 10:30
Swap the Orks with someone else buying the set for their Marines, and you end up with a very decent starter army. 2 HQs, 10 Terms, 2 Dreads and 2 full Tac Squads. I still say you'll like Genestealers though if you like ambushing armies :)

RohanCaptain
07-11-2008, 12:19
thank you guys, I'm gonna start looking into it. I had heard the starter set box was a really good deal for what you get at $60.

Lungboy, when you say genestealers, whats that?? Which army??

Grimmeth
07-11-2008, 12:28
It's Tyranids. However, they have a genestealer HQ choice (the Broodlord) which you need at least one of and Genestealers themselves are troop choices - they're all rather fast and can have options to infiltrate, scout etc. So can really harass the enemies army from several different angles at once.

They're practically only close combat though, I personally wouldn't recommend them for a new player.

Lungboy
07-11-2008, 13:04
It's Tyranids. However, they have a genestealer HQ choice (the Broodlord) which you need at least one of and Genestealers themselves are troop choices - they're all rather fast and can have options to infiltrate, scout etc. So can really harass the enemies army from several different angles at once.

They're practically only close combat though, I personally wouldn't recommend them for a new player.

This is true, although as i said on the last page, you can give them decent fire support with a Carnifex, Hive Tyrant and Warriors. They have no synapse worries which makes them a doddle for a new player to pick up. They have a low model count which is what the OP wanted, and the models themselves are about as cheap as you'll find for any army on ebay.

RohanCaptain
09-11-2008, 16:08
If I wanted to play eldars and I got the big army box, how many points are in that box?? If I did tyranids with the genestealers, is there a big army box I can get?? Or do I have to get them individually??

So far, I think these are the two armies that I'm leading towards. I trully enjoy painting the models, and eldar seem to require that additional level of painting. And I also love the ranger models :)

Tyranids seem to have more of my playing style, it seems.

MrBigMr
09-11-2008, 17:11
does 40k have balanced armies?? or is it like Fantasy where one army is alot more powerful than the others?? (I'm not comparing the two, only using Fantasy as reference)
It depends. Each army has their good lists and bad lists, but I have to say I haven't come across an army that has been utterly dominating. So I would say yes, it's balanced. Up to a point.


DO 40k armies have different styles of playing like fantasy (Ambush armies, heavy weapons(magic) armies?? or are the armies all pretty much the same, line up and shoot at each other?? (again, please bear with me, I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just don't know anything about 40k)
Well, every army has shooting, but that just means that you can't sit back and blast the enemy, unless you're really invested into it, and not all armies have the capability for it. You have different styles of weapons, each good for one role or another. Rapid fire weapons, which are quite common as basic guns, are better at short ranges, but can't move and fire to full range. Assault weapons are your average "move and shoot" guns, which also give you the ability to assault afterwards. Heavy weapons are move or shoot guns.

Usually you rarely have a unit that is good both at firing and close combat. And even if they are, they're usually expensive and small in number, which makes them weak(er) against large numbers. So Tau have long range guns and good, S5 basic infantry weapons, but lack in CC abilities. Tyranids have guns, but they're usually bound to the abilities of the creature itself and far from their CC abilities.


If I wanted to play eldars and I got the big army box, how many points are in that box??
I know a guy who started with the battleforce and a box of Dire Avengers and it got him off to a good start. The real problem are high price on anything special, like Aspect Warriors and such. You can always covert, if you're good at it and want to save money.


If I did tyranids with the genestealers, is there a big army box I can get?? Or do I have to get them individually??
There is a Tyranid Battleforce. It comes with 3 Warriors, 8 Genestealers, 8 Hormogaunts, 8 Gaunts and a Carnifex. Depending on what you want, it seems a good deal.

Lungboy
09-11-2008, 17:49
If you're going 'Stealer heavy then you're far better off buying them on ebay. The old Space Hulk models often go for less than 50p a model. They dont come with any biomorphs on the models, but to begin with, as you're learning which morphs you want, this is a good thing.