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Luthor
08-11-2008, 01:04
With the release of the DoC second wave I was wondering what happened to the rumored VC wave 2. I searched the news and rumors thread and only found a slight mention of it but no release date. Anyone have any idea when it will be released, or what it contains?

sulla
08-11-2008, 06:40
Forgive my ignorance, but what is there to do? Black knights and a wight king. Anything else?

slayerofmen
08-11-2008, 07:06
well a new black coach would be nice
oh oh oh, maybe a new set of plastic fell bats, because the other ones are ugly as sin new bats swarms plastic too, spirit host because they are ugly and should be plastic, a vampire kit (in plastic) like every other commander is getting. god Christ a new set of wraiths in plastic, new black knights (plastic) should i really continue, yes

new zombies (plastic) new wright lord models (plastic)

what im getting at is less metal less ugly more plastic more awesome looking

Count Demandred
08-11-2008, 07:32
Some new Special Characters would be awesome!

But considering there's no chance of that, re-doing the Black Knights are a MUST.

Killgore
08-11-2008, 14:08
Black Knights would be good :)

anything else im not that fussed about

Desert Rain
08-11-2008, 14:41
New BK would be nice, plastic of course, an some new character models because the current ones are really bad. A plastic black coach woulg be nice too.

Leogun_91
08-11-2008, 16:17
well a new black coach would be nice No that absolutely doesnīt need to be updated, the model is one of my favorites. Necromancer is in dire need of update and so is black knights, wight kings should also be updated but I donīt think we will see a vampire set in plastic, maybe a new one in metal though.

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 16:30
Well the rest of us would not mind a new black coach ;).

Fell bats I doubt will ever be re-done as no army has plastic flyers, heck the only plastic wings in the hobby are dragon wings and CSM possesed (sp), Black knights as has been said, I would like new mounted vampires or more precisely an official hell steed.

EDIT: And pegasi (I should know I own some!) thanks greendracobob for the reminder.

Lord Inquisitor
08-11-2008, 16:32
New fell bats models would be nice even if they were metal. Never been happy with the fell bats and if they were to look like the dire wolves that would be cool...

Chaplain Nikolai
08-11-2008, 16:36
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Skeleton Steeds have been the same since they were first intoduced in the 80's so I think a redo of them and the Black Knights is in order.

GreenDracoBob
08-11-2008, 17:45
Fell bats I doubt will ever be re-done as no army has plastic flyers, heck the only plastic wings in the hobby are dragon wings and CSM possesed (sp)

I would like to point out the Brettonian Pegasus Knights, which are plastic and whose plastic wings are sold as individual bits on GW's website.

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 17:54
Not at a buyer friendly price though :(.

OldMaster
08-11-2008, 18:35
a vampire kit (in plastic) like every other commander......

...should be getting but doesn't get.

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 18:39
It said in WD why they are not doing that kit, something about not capturing the look of the vampires...the metal ones fail as besides the special characters there is only the woman one (I do like that one) and the winged one (unless I am forgetting another) so why there is no plastic set IMO has not been explained properly.

Duke Georgal
08-11-2008, 18:42
Heck the only plastic wings in the hobby are dragon wings and CSM possesed .

Pegasus knights have very nice plastic wings.

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 18:49
Pegasus knights have very nice plastic wings.

You should have read my edit :p.

Also an abysal terror would be a model to look forward to.

forgottenlor
08-11-2008, 19:15
Skeleton steeds look good, even if they are old. Giant bats are hideous. They could even be redone in metal, for all I'm concerned. After all according to rumours teradons will be redone in metal, so why not giant bats?

Duke Georgal
08-11-2008, 19:20
Black Knights would be good :)

anything else im not that fussed about

I too, also hated the Black Knights.

Then I realized I liked the models, I just hated the lances. I installed the lances from the new Cold One Knights, and now I LOVE them.

Still a bit pricey though. This unit cost me well over $100.00!

Leogun_91
08-11-2008, 21:52
It said in WD why they are not doing that kit, something about not capturing the look of the vampires...the metal ones fail as besides the special characters there is only the woman one (I do like that one) and the winged one (unless I am forgetting another) so why there is no plastic set IMO has not been explained properly.There is the direct only "pirate" vampire as well.

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 21:54
...which is direct only :(, a plastic set should be made and I just do not understand why not, if a plastic set cannot do them justice I doubt 3 non special characters (one is Dirct only, the other has a huge wing) is sufficient.

Black-Tooth
08-11-2008, 22:25
Zombies would get my vote for a re-do. The current ones look very dated with their gigantic hands and the Corpse Cart Zombies look much better and even fit in the the descption of Zombies having wood and metal/weapons strapped to them.

But this whole toppic has gone a bit off course. I'm not too sure if the Vampires will get a second wave. Most armies seem to have their second wave (if I recall correctly) 12 months after the initial release - Chaos, Orks. With that in mind the 2nd wave would be April, but that's set for Lizardmen. Perhaps they'll stick some models in around that time, or maybe wait until a summer champaign or something. I've heard nothing about a 2nd wave for them and I've heard most of what's being released next year, though it's always subject to change, so you never know.

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 22:32
Ahh, but the second wave is a new thing for GW (more like old days to me) so 12 months is not the rule here.

Quetzl
08-11-2008, 22:33
I got a feeling that VC's will get new Black Knights whenever TK's come out. Just because of the boney horses - well of course if they make the boney horses look the same for both armies. But yeah is that logic d'ya think?

GodlessM
08-11-2008, 22:33
All pointless though since there won't be a VC second wave

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 22:41
That sir is groundless.

@Quetzl:With the horses ethereal now...they may not be boney

EvC
08-11-2008, 22:48
No, suggestions that there is a second wave are groundless. Wishful thinking is a fine thing :D

Lord Malorne
08-11-2008, 22:54
Really? the fact that other armies are having second waves can be an indicator of a VC second wave in the future along with generalised statemants of 'armies will be getting second waves' and such...so not so much groundless ;).

Luthor
09-11-2008, 00:22
Well technically, if you check the VC news and rumors thread it says there is a second wave that includes plastic black knights, and plastic zombies plus others, but I have'nt been able to find anything more about it.

EvC
09-11-2008, 01:55
Really? the fact that other armies are having second waves can be an indicator of a VC second wave in the future along with generalised statemants of 'armies will be getting second waves' and such...so not so much groundless ;).

I think the fact we have had about 20 threads asking about the "second wave" of VC models and not a single rumour suggesting that anything is in the pipeline should be enough to count as there being no ground. We have not seen a "second wave" fantasy release for 18 months now. We might get a High Elf one if we're lucky- 18 months after their initial release. This aint 40K, extra fantasy models are simply NOT a priority. We have had many posts from people like Luthor referencing something they've seen about new models, but I see no thread about Vampire Counts rumours anywhere, not least ones mentioning plastic Black Knights or Zombies.

That's not to say there won't ever be a "second wave", but there is no evidence for it. Mostly it's wishlists repeated as facts. Or, in short: it's groundless.

Lord Malorne
09-11-2008, 02:02
It is far more groundful than groundless, saying 'not going to be one' with certainty, is groundless.

There is a chance there will be, a very iffy chance but one none the less, so it is not groundless.

Luthor
09-11-2008, 02:10
If you check the Fantasy Rumor Roundup in the Vampire Counts thread one of the early posts mentions some new releases for VC including plastic Black Knights and Zombies.

In fact High Elves second wave has been confirmed by Harry, and others have confirmed a DoC and Empire 2nd Wave.

Deus Mechanicus
09-11-2008, 04:36
I heard that plastic blood knights are due for wave 2.

SolarHammer
09-11-2008, 04:47
Plastic cav for everything in the game would be a nice start.

Penitent Engine
09-11-2008, 05:17
Unless GW has suddenly had an attack of morality over the amount of money they charge (and the devil goes ice skating :rolleyes:) I seriously doubt they'll be re-doing a miniature that they only did a shortish while ago.

NEED NEW BLACK KNIGHTS!!

Daemonia
09-11-2008, 06:38
New Black Knights would be lovely...but new Zombies would be amazing after so long with using them for almost every other army as bits and pieces.

Forgotmytea
09-11-2008, 09:50
Yeah, much as I love the Black Knights, the models do look so dated now. Brilliant, but dated lol.

Oh, and I must say imo the vampires could do with a revamp. Barring the Sartosan and the female, I loathe them all :p

-Forgotmytea

Cromenon
09-11-2008, 10:34
I am quite skeptical we VC will have a 2nd wave release, though as many of you said, new zombies are necessary (but I fear that if GW ever release them they'll come in boxes of 10, like the new skellies) and Black Knights just need a redo.

EvC
09-11-2008, 15:41
It is far more groundful than groundless, saying 'not going to be one' with certainty, is groundless.

There is a chance there will be, a very iffy chance but one none the less, so it is not groundless.

I see the problem, we are using different definitions of the same terms.

For me: second wave means a set of additional releases for an army that occurs 6-12 months after an army book was first released. This is what the "second waves" of Empire, Orcs, Dwarf and other models were.

There will be NO second wave Vampire Counts release, in that definition. This is an absolute fact.

There may be additional Vampire Counts releases, at some point in the future, yes. There is currently no evidence that this will happen, mind you. Even the High Elf "second wave" that I mentioned earlier has been downgraded from a rumour to a possibility.

Lord Malorne
09-11-2008, 15:46
To you second wave has a time limit?!

Well your posts make sense to me now :D.

EvC
09-11-2008, 16:08
Of course there's a time limit, otherwise in 2011 when the 8th edition Vampire Counts book is released, you'll be saying "See, there's your damn second wave!" ;)

malisteen
10-11-2008, 10:01
It's a shame we're probably not going to see one, as there are several units dying for new models, including:

Wight Lord (this would be ideal for a plastic foot/cavalry kit with battle standard)

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon or Abyssal Terror (both of these models are a bit old. And terrible.)

Generic Vampire lord on nightmare.

Zombies: An old kit that just isn't up to current standards.

Black Knight: As zombies. Ideal for new plastic kit. Preferably with barding (although that means they wouldn't be able to share steeds with tomb kings....)

Bat Swarms: Lousy models. Also old.

Fell Bats: see bat swarms.

Wraiths: Very old, and rather plain. Due for an update.

Black Coach: Not a bad model, but still pretty old, and nothing like as awsome as what they could do with it these days.


It'd be nice to see Blood Knights that didn't cost us$20 a model, too. Not that the models are old or bad, but I just can't imagine GW is selling any of the current ones at all. Anecdotally, my local store couldn't sell any before the price went from 'way to high' to 'laughing stock', and even the nearest GW store hasn't sold any since the price hike, despite VC being a relatively popular army.


So anyway, yeah, there's plenty that could be redone. About half the list, really. I guess they'll have plenty to do for the next time vampire counts are released. I wonder when that happens if blood knights will still be a unit, or if they'll be scrapped for lack of sales, and their champion and standard repackaged as 'mounted vampire hero' and 'mounted vampire battle standard bearer'.

the_picto
10-11-2008, 10:40
Generic Vampire lord on nightmare.


There already is a pretty cool looking generic vampire on a horse. One of the better vampire models I think.



Black Knight: As zombies. Ideal for new plastic kit. Preferably with barding (although that means they wouldn't be able to share steeds with tomb kings....)


I'd rather not see them as zombies. Empire style Knights, but either with skeletal bits or modeled as empty suits of armour would get my vote.



It'd be nice to see Blood Knights that didn't cost us$20 a model, too. Not that the models are old or bad, but I just can't imagine GW is selling any of the current ones at all. Anecdotally, my local store couldn't sell any before the price went from 'way to high' to 'laughing stock', and even the nearest GW store hasn't sold any since the price hike, despite VC being a relatively popular army.


I think blood knights came out at an unfortunate time. Given the recent plastic cold one knights and chaos knights, it seems that blood knights could and really should have been plastic. Presumably they were done just before GW decided to do all the new cavalry in plastic.

Luthor
10-11-2008, 10:55
It would be really neat if the Black Knights looked like Bretonnian knights, but without the animals on their helmets. That would be cool if they also came with skeleton heads so that you could build them as ghost type knights or skeleton knights.

Ixquic
10-11-2008, 12:33
It would be really neat if the Black Knights looked like Bretonnian knights, but without the animals on their helmets. That would be cool if they also came with skeleton heads so that you could build them as ghost type knights or skeleton knights.

You USED to be able to do that. Cut out the faces of the Bretonnian knights and glue in a skeleton face then replace the horse's head with the head from the Necrarch Vampire horse. Now that they stupidly stopped bitz services you can't get the horse heads individually anymore but you can still change the knights' heads at least without spending a fortune.

Also I didn't realize that Blood Knights were $90 now which is laughable. I know only two people that have units of them and one won them in a contest. Sometimes I think GW lives in a literal fantasy world where people are willing to spend a hundred bucks on 5 models or 300 on a mediocre gaming board.

EvC
10-11-2008, 13:24
With the release of the Chaos Knights boxed set, I think the Blood Knights will sell even fewer models...

malisteen
10-11-2008, 19:54
There already is a pretty cool looking generic vampire on a horse. One of the better vampire models I think.

There are several generic vampire on horse models. My favorite is the bald one with the big scimitar on the barded skeletal steed - I used the horse for my black knight champ, and the vamp for my lord on abyssal terror conversion. Other then that, there are several from the bloodline era, none of which are very good imo. All of these models, even the one I like, are pretty old, and none of them are in line with the scale or visual style of the current generation of vampire models - and, my opinion of the individual models aside, a coherent visual style for warhammer vampire models is important.


I'd rather not see them [black knights] as zombies.

I didn't mean they should do mounted wights as fleshy undead, I meant that the current black knight models are, like the zombie models, quite old, and not at all up to current GW standards. Basically that they both could really use new model sets.


I think blood knights came out at an unfortunate time. Given the recent plastic cold one knights and chaos knights, it seems that blood knights could and really should have been plastic. Presumably they were done just before GW decided to do all the new cavalry in plastic.

I don't mind the blood knights in metal so much, but $20 per model is just absurd. I'd rather see black knights in plastic then blood knights, if it were one or the other. Still, Like I said, I wouldn't be at all shocked if we didn't see blood knights as a unit at all in the future - similar to wraiths, which have jumped back and forth between unit and character.