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sprugly
09-11-2008, 19:40
hey all

Just been thumbing through my mini rulebook and came across something, in the back of the book there are the little summaries of all the races stats and weapons and lo and behold in the ork section is a note stating that zzzap guns do not need to roll to hit!

Now before anyone jumps up and down i know that this changes nothing, summaries are always wrong and codex trumps all. But it just made me wonder if they really meant to remove this rule from the ork codex or was it simply an oversight? I think without this ability zzzap guns are pretty much useless so was it an error on their part, or just a mistake to put it in the summary?

sprugly

Alessander
09-11-2008, 19:49
oversight, codex always trumps rulebook.

Hicks
09-11-2008, 20:32
I wouldn't say it's useless at all, it's still very usefull to soften MCs from afar and it can take down big vehicles, especially if you buy ammo runts. I think they were too strong before, auto hit and 4d6 for pen meant lotsa dead tanks for me :(.

Gensuke626
09-11-2008, 22:26
It's most likely an error made by whoever wrote the summary. It's also possible that the Ork Summary was written off of an earlier draft of the Ork Codex, and the Zzap guns were changed between when the Summary was written and the final draft of the Codex.

Adyger
09-11-2008, 23:44
So wait, there was a time (in an earlier edition) that they DID hit automatically? That's pretty interesting. Apart from falmers I didn't know of any weapons with an automatic hit characteristic. (Although I did used to think that a "shooty" psychic attack DID hit automatically if you passed your Ld test, boy did that make my Zoanthropes better!)

Gensuke626
10-11-2008, 00:13
3rd ed codex Orks...Back when G next to the range of a weapon meant that you needed to guess how many inches away the target is..

cailus
10-11-2008, 00:53
Zzaps are truly useless without auto-hit because they have a randomly determined strength. So you not only have to roll to hit but roll to see what your strength is as well. A little bit too unreliable really even by Orky standards. You're better off on loading up with buggies with TL rokkits for the cost.

Gensuke626
10-11-2008, 00:56
Zzaps are truly useless without auto-hit because they have a randomly determined strength. So you not only have to roll to hit but roll to see what your strength is as well. A little bit too unreliable really even by Orky standards. You're better off on loading up with buggies with TL rokkits for the cost.

Well...That's if you're using them for anti-Tank duty. I know, I know...that's what they're supposed to be there for. Zzap guns are the ork's Lascannon, but for 15 points you can strap one to a battle wagon and hope to wound or maybe even kill something with a 2+sv. Or try to chew through something with FNP.

They're not truly useless...Just mostly useless.

But yeah...zzap guns in a battery are pretty bad. Kannons will do one much better.

Now if zzap guns had the same rules but their strength was D6+6...

cailus
10-11-2008, 01:01
Even on a battlewagon they're even worse at BS2. So you hit on a 5+ and then you have to roll for strength. 15 points is an extra loota, 2 boyz, or nearly half way to another trukk.

I actually use kannons a lot and find them to be much more useful though the crap new Scatter rules and reduced S4 make their blast weapon capability a bit more less worthwhile.

lordhumongous
10-11-2008, 01:33
Zzaps are truly useless without auto-hit because they have a randomly determined strength. So you not only have to roll to hit but roll to see what your strength is as well. A little bit too unreliable really even by Orky standards. You're better off on loading up with buggies with TL rokkits for the cost.

Yep. Well said.

szlachcic
10-11-2008, 04:23
Even on a battlewagon they're even worse at BS2. So you hit on a 5+ and then you have to roll for strength. 15 points is an extra loota, 2 boyz, or nearly half way to another trukk.

I actually use kannons a lot and find them to be much more useful though the crap new Scatter rules and reduced S4 make their blast weapon capability a bit more less worthwhile.

How does the new Scatter rules make them worse. If anything it is much easier to hit stuff with blast weapons in the new rules IMO. Sure, if you get a large scatter your low BS isn't going to help, but you could still hit something. That is a lot better than having to roll a 5+ to hit in the first place. Plus it is just plain fun IMO.

devik
10-11-2008, 04:45
I believe the fluff behind the zzzap gun was that it threw out this massive electrical cone that made it next to impossible for even an *ork* to miss a shot with it.

Of course, that doesn't explain why if you pointed it at a whole squad, why it didn't use the template rules.

cailus
10-11-2008, 05:00
How does the new Scatter rules make them worse. If anything it is much easier to hit stuff with blast weapons in the new rules IMO. Sure, if you get a large scatter your low BS isn't going to help, but you could still hit something. That is a lot better than having to roll a 5+ to hit in the first place. Plus it is just plain fun IMO.

Grots are BS3, so before 5th edition they were hitting on a 4+. Much better than scattering up to 9 inches and an average of about 4-5 inches as it stands currently!

I've found small template weapons a lot more inaccurate under the new rules. Look at a Space Marine plasmacannon - it went from hitting 66% of the time to a mere 33%. The average scatter is now 3-4 inches for Marines, or 4-5 inches for Grots, Eldar and Guard. It's even worse for BS2 Orks - average scatters are 5-6 inches so they'll mostly miss with small blast markers.