View Full Version : Why would you run from a flag?

09-02-2009, 06:21
I don't understand why a standard bearer adds to combat resolution.

If both units cause the same amount of combat resolution, but then one side has a standard bearer giving them one more C.R. why would it cause the enemy to retreat? The only reason I can imagine would be "OH MY GOODNESS! THAT FLAG IS WOVEN SO BEAUTIFULLY! WE MUST TELL EVERY ONE!"

Being out numbered by an enemy would be nerve wracking, as well as seeing them organized with ranks. And I guess with them being more organized with a musician (I don't get this one as much either.). But just having a flag wouldn't do much to make me want to retreat.

Has any one else wondered this as well?

09-02-2009, 06:36
Think of the flag, as making your side LESS likely to retreat. Your own troops see your flag, and they start thinking...hey, my flag looks good, thats where all my friends are, if I run away, then my friends and I won't have our flag the enemy will, and that just sucks.

While if one side has a flag, and the other doesn't. The side that has the flag is more likely to rally around it and the side that doesn't have the flag has no where to rally around and so any attempt they might make to regain their collective fighting ability would be stunted, without a position to rally towards.

09-02-2009, 06:36
So you accept that 21 goblins have +1CR over 10 chaos knights but you have a problem with +1CR for a flag?:rolleyes:

You accept that 5 dogs biting your unit's butts generate +2CR but 20 assassins don't?:eek:

It's a rule in warhammer. Don't look too deeply at it. It vaguely simulates that you fight harder when your regimental standard is in the fight. No one wants to be the guy who let the 100year old standard be captured.

Master Stark
09-02-2009, 06:43
The presence of the regimental standard encourages people to fight harder. This is represented by +1 cr.

Taking that into consideration though, some armies shouldn't get a bonus from banners. Notably undead.

09-02-2009, 06:58
Well lets say you are High Elf or Empire or Dwarf, its a rallying point, and shows pride in your races etc. Giving you +1 to CR to represent this. Now lets say Chaos, Dark Elves and Skaven have banners of your fallen rotting or skeletal remains, causing fear or uneasiness in the enemies ranks, or as above for his own troops etc. Giving you +1 to CR.

Next question I see coming is why does a musician count as a tie break. Same as above, look to LoTR movies to see what the horns do to the moral of the troops, and the signal of victory, or charge etc.

09-02-2009, 07:23
The standard represents the honour of the regiment, so long as it stands, the regiment rallies around it. :)

09-02-2009, 07:27
Its too remind you of what you are fighting for, if you flee from battle then the innocents you are fighting (your friends, family) for may be in danger. You see your homeland's colors and you fight harder for it.

Good enough for you?

Oh and by the way, I had a good laugh at your comment about telling others how nicely the enemies' flags are woven. Hilarious!

09-02-2009, 07:34
Its too remind you of what you are fighting for, if you flee from battle then the innocents you are fighting (your friends, family) for may be in danger. You see your homeland's colors and you fight harder for it.

Or if you're an orc you see a giant stained crap rag on a pole and want to kill you enemies off quickly so you can take another dump on it.

Ah the honour of battle...

The Red Scourge
09-02-2009, 08:42
Ah the glory of warseer. It doesn't take long for a discussion to be all about filth and feces ;)

09-02-2009, 09:04
I could imagine the back of an orc/goblin banner to have a picture showing the after-battle-BBQ, to push the boyz behind it a bit more into action.

09-02-2009, 17:13
the standard could also be good for finding out where your unit is, being that its waving in the air, it gives you a place to rally in the swirling melee of combat that warhammer is supposed to represent. Anything that makes your troops less confused about where they are supposed to be might help their morale in the long run.

09-02-2009, 18:52
Not only the pride thing. Flags and musicians played important roles as communication devices, the banner showing the soldiers were to go, and the instrument for relying orders. Not having a banner or musician would be much like sending troops out in the field without radio nowadays.

09-02-2009, 19:40
It depends on the troops involved, but in the Warhammer mechanics, it represents the rallying point for the unit, the psychological feeling it generates ensure additional unit coherency; the musician's instrument gives that additional edge when combat hangs by a thread, when he blows the horn.

09-02-2009, 20:03
Its a rule. It gives the game more depth. Thats the end of it.

09-02-2009, 20:51
You can think of the standard as additional training and Úsprit de corps. It tells us that the unit keeps tight formation, and so on.

Don't think of the standard bonus coming as a result of a single guy waving a flag, just like you don't think of that 20-odd plastic model unit as consisting of literally 20 members in the game (you don't....right?)

09-02-2009, 20:55
I subscribe to the 'rally around the homstead flag' idea.

Gotta admint i find the idea kinda inspiring, fancy a game now :P

R Man
09-02-2009, 21:30
If you read anything about ancient armies and even up to Napoleonic times then you'l know how much these armies and soldiers prized their flags and standards. Losing them was a terrible dishonour and carried with it great penalties and great shame. Even in the modern age flags can have a huge effect (Iwo Jima and the Fall of Berlin)

Flags are also important for identifying where units are and make important places for soldiers to rally around.

09-02-2009, 21:39
Taking that into consideration though, some armies shouldn't get a bonus from banners. Notably undead.

No-one else has answered this so I figured I had an excuse to stop lurking. It's sort of feasible (about as feasible as dead people fighting a war, anyway) that there is a chunk of warpstone or something at the top of the pole, to act as a focal point for the magic, to allow the vampire's magic to go further and invigorate the undead just a little bit more to make them a bit more scary.
I imagine it would work like a Tyranid Synapse creature. The Hive Mind can't control all the organisms at once, but it can control the synapse creatures, who pass his psychic imperatives onto the others.
Just a theory, mind.

09-02-2009, 22:08
As to the Thread's Title Question: Unless it's magical or the standard of a feared unit, you don't run from a flag, and the mechanic doesn't penalize you for your opponent having said flag, your unit gets the bonus for bringing it along.

09-02-2009, 22:23
You don't run from the flag, you run from the hundred frothing maniacs underneath it. :p

09-02-2009, 22:36
It comes from a time when your country meant everything toothe men fighting for it, and their regimental flag was a reminder of what they were fighting for. The reason it gives a combat bonus isn't fear for the enemies, its that your own troops are slightly more determined and steadfast because of it

09-02-2009, 23:25
Some units credited them with slightly supernatural powers or representative of powers that are protective, like the Roman Legion Eagle.