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Doppleskanger
10-02-2009, 15:39
So I've started thinking about this summers various tourneys.
What I was thinking is that no one can know every rule from every codex, and whether through deliberate slyness or through genuine misunderstanding/confusion/forgetfulness, your oponent sometimes uses the wrong rules, or uses them incorrectly.

Some examples
Lictors not taking dangerous terrain tests when they arrive
Claiming Death Company don't give up KP's
Deathwing arriving on a ravenwing bikes teleporter homer after they have moved in the first turn

I think it would be very handy to compile a list of things to watch out for, without this becoming a thread on arguing specific rule queries.
Any contributions?

Enderel
10-02-2009, 15:54
This would be very useful. I'll contribute these ones -

Eldar -

Certain psychic powers must be cast at the beginning of the turn, others in the shooting phase. Make sure that things like Guide, Fortune and Doom are done at the beginning.

Chaos -

Ensure that Warptime is done at the beginning of the turn (either players)

carldooley
10-02-2009, 16:00
in one of my first games I played someone who used arco flagellants and proceeded to roll 1d6 to find out how many attacks his models got. in the end it didn't hurt me all that much, but when you are supposed to roll a d6 for EACH arcoflagellant in the squad and then remove a model for each d6 rolled at the end of combat . . . he rolled a 6 on his 1d6, if I had been more sure of myself I would have had him scrap his entire squad.

I used to use GKs without enforcing the shrouding.

Someone played me with an Archon with combat drugs and was pwning me until someone came along and informed us that the drugs only affected the archon and not the squad that he was in, not that poisoned power weapons needed all that much help.

in my most recent tourny, one of my opponents didn't know that he had to remove his marker counters after he used them - i cried foul after I realized that he was reusing the 2 marker counters to make every squad that fired on mine BS5.

I considered making a green horde list with 2 weirdboys so that I had a chance to get a free Waaagh! each turn.



as to the OP, I try to get my pawz on every codex as it comes out because I firmly believe in Know Thy Enemy. I even got the wargear book, and tried to enforce the 3+ terminator save. Considering that everyone ignored it when everyone also says that they should follow the rules in the most recent printing makes me wish that I could just sell that particular book back to them and neuralize myself.

oh yeah, which army can use the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, or did the author of the wargear book just watch Monty Python's Hunt for the Holy Grail before writing it?

Levett
10-02-2009, 16:05
Black Templars have the grenade lol.

One general thing that people like to do involves disembarking. A unit cannot move after disembarking if the vehicles moves, this INCLUDES PIVOTING. So many people think they can pivot then disembark & move... epic fail.

Another one is wrecks counting as both difficult and dangeous terrain, nearly every player i've fought hasn't noticed this. Check the rulebook.

Count de Monet
10-02-2009, 16:08
Space Marines -

Make sure you understand how ATSKNF works...and how it doesn't.

Necrons -

Make sure you understand how We'll Be Back works...and how it doesn't.

Orks -

Remember to enforce No Retreat wounds on large mobs.

General -

Remember to enforce No Retreat wounds on Fearless units.

Understand cover and how it's different for different types of units.

don_mondo
10-02-2009, 16:46
No "who's in the transport" secrecy. You gotta tell who's taking a ride.

Make sure they declare how non-deployed units are handled, regular reserve, deep strike, outflank, whatever.

Bunnahabhain
10-02-2009, 16:55
Know thy wargear.

Until GW do the sane thing, and unify Imperal wargear, make sure you and your opponent are using the correct version of Storm shields, Assualt cannons...... Easy to make mistakes both deliberate and accidental.

Marines. Special characters. Know what replaces combat tactics, and what adds to it, and who has combat tactics to replace.

Decide if buildings are buildings or ruins.

Corrode
10-02-2009, 16:59
Quick question on those actually - most of the Marine special characters say 'exchanges' Chapter Tactics for Combat Tactics, whereas Vulkan He'stan specifically says that any unit in the army 'loses' Combat Tactics. What's the difference or is this just poorly written?

starlight
10-02-2009, 17:05
Apparently it's intentional. :)

njfed
10-02-2009, 17:06
Watch how they 'roll' the dice. Have they perfected the art of getting just what they need?

Ask them to show you how to do it too.

Levett
10-02-2009, 17:46
The best way is to hand them a proper dice. I now use & sell official casino dice, which has completely eradicated this problem. I make sure my opponents shake the dice in a semi-open hand as a minimum before rolling. Given the perfect nature of the dice, it makes them rather hard to fix.

starlight
10-02-2009, 18:05
Use a dice cup (or for Orks, a dice bucket:p) and it doesn't matter so much...in addition to keeping their grimy paws off your dice. :D

Lord Damocles
10-02-2009, 18:06
Make sure you've understood how the wound allocation rules work. Don't just read them; understand them.

Cythus
10-02-2009, 18:48
The best way is to hand them a proper dice. I now use & sell official casino dice, which has completely eradicated this problem. I make sure my opponents shake the dice in a semi-open hand as a minimum before rolling. Given the perfect nature of the dice, it makes them rather hard to fix.

i have a friend who i noticed that when he's rolling one dice, has a strange tendency to roll sixes when he needs it. I looked closer and saw that it was becuase when he 'rolls it' the dice only changes from on face to another, a quarter of a roll and so long as the six side of the dice was lined up in his hand...

should I say anything? Am I being to obssessed over winning? I know for sure that if I do, he will call me a rules noob, winging ********t etc

Doppleskanger
10-02-2009, 18:53
Don't say a word. Just kick him in the nuts:eek:

Xardian
10-02-2009, 19:31
Space Marines -

Make sure you understand how ATSKNF works...and how it doesn't.

Necrons -

Make sure you understand how We'll Be Back works...and how it doesn't.

Orks -

Remember to enforce No Retreat wounds on large mobs.

General -

Remember to enforce No Retreat wounds on Fearless units.

Understand cover and how it's different for different types of units.

Also remember that Fearless isn't the only thing that causes "No Retreat". Synapse does it, too. That's right, read the No Retreat rule carefully. Any special rule or ability that makes a unit automatically pass the morale check for losing assault also causes No Retreat.

McPherson
10-02-2009, 19:36
The best way is to hand them a proper dice. I now use & sell official casino dice, which has completely eradicated this problem. I make sure my opponents shake the dice in a semi-open hand as a minimum before rolling. Given the perfect nature of the dice, it makes them rather hard to fix.

Urgh - nothing personal but i'd hate to play against you in a tournament setting ;)

I hate rolling casino dice, they've got pointy corners, they're too big for me to roll my 40 death company attacks at once and generally I dont like touching other peoples dice.

That aside I also do believe in ensuring my opponent doesnt think i'm cheating - so if your really against me using my own dice and rolling them becuase i'm some kind of kung-fu dice master who can roll 40 attacks in some magical way to get all 6's... Well you can roll my dice :P

Oh as for tourney player checklist for rules - knowing your weapon stats and character stats. Tournaments are timed and the last thing I need is for someone to spend 10 minutes looking through their book to figure out how many shots / how many attacks / AP/Strength of every unit in their army. Especially if your playing something with a very easy to remember statline (read : Tac marine)

- McPherson

Levett
10-02-2009, 20:49
haha. I dont mind if people are rolling 40 dice or mass amounts of dice in 1 setting. It only bothers me when people break down those 40 attacks into groups of 4 and then roll them with a set style to aid the result.

McPherson
10-02-2009, 21:32
haha. I dont mind if people are rolling 40 dice or mass amounts of dice in 1 setting. It only bothers me when people break down those 40 attacks into groups of 4 and then roll them with a set style to aid the result.

God that sounds annoying.

Imagine a Ork Horde rolling each boys attacks and wounds seperately on the charge - regardless of whether or not they are cheating that would take forever - I'd call them on stalling if nothing else.

- McPherson

Grand Master Raziel
10-02-2009, 22:32
It's not really a tournament thing per se, but one of my regular opponents misinterprets how Dawn of War deployment works. He thinks it means that all units in Reserve come in on the first turn - so, he gets both his drop pod-deployed units first turn. I haven't had a chance to correct him on that one yet.

carldooley
10-02-2009, 22:35
It's not really a tournament thing per se, but one of my regular opponents misinterprets how Dawn of War deployment works. He thinks it means that all units in Reserve come in on the first turn - so, he gets both his drop pod-deployed units first turn. I haven't had a chance to correct him on that one yet.

ummm, I was under the impression that you could legally do this - if you have 2 drop pods, 1 drops with drop pod assault, then you could select the other if it contained a troops choice or your HQ.

Thoth62
10-02-2009, 23:51
Doesn't work like that.

You have to declare what units are starting the game in reserve (drop pods) and all others use their movement to come on via your table edge. The units in reserve come down as normal.

If you read the rules, it's laid out pretty clearly.

Splata
11-02-2009, 02:36
Quick question on those actually - most of the Marine special characters say 'exchanges' Chapter Tactics for Combat Tactics, whereas Vulkan He'stan specifically says that any unit in the army 'loses' Combat Tactics. What's the difference or is this just poorly written?

This is because it effects some units that don't have combat tactics (dreadnaughts) but does not effect others that do(scouts? not sure). Hence you have the variation in wording.

Corrode
11-02-2009, 02:38
Thanks, I knew I was missing something obvious.

Enderel
11-02-2009, 08:34
On the subject of dice rolling I tend to put the dice out into sub piles for each model in a unit, so my opponent can see I'm rolling the correct amount, then I pick up all the ones for a set initiative / weapon type and roll them. For special weapons (ranged and power) I tend to roll them individually so my opponent can see them.

When picking up dice I always pick up failures, the number of times I've had to call people on picking up hits that aren't isn't funny. Picking up failures avoids this as you and your opponent can see what's left on the table.

Try and figure out a method before hand regards cocked re rolls. Ensure there is consistency on what is re rolled.

Born Again
11-02-2009, 09:57
I considered making a green horde list with 2 weirdboys so that I had a chance to get a free Waaagh! each turn.


Unless I've had a major misreading myself, I believe this is entirely legal, though I wouldn't really recommend it, 2 Weirdboyz isn't the best choice you could make. Sure to be fun and entertaining, though.


i have a friend who i noticed that when he's rolling one dice, has a strange tendency to roll sixes when he needs it. I looked closer and saw that it was becuase when he 'rolls it' the dice only changes from on face to another, a quarter of a roll and so long as the six side of the dice was lined up in his hand...

should I say anything? Am I being to obssessed over winning? I know for sure that if I do, he will call me a rules noob, winging ********t etc

And how does catching one out at cheating make you a rules noob? Call they guy on it, it's bad enough to cheat by altering or intentionally abusing a rule, it's even worse to have to resort to fixing the random element of the game.

Sholto
11-02-2009, 10:31
Sort out your terrain, and agree what each piece is and is not.

Sholto

Corrode
11-02-2009, 12:06
And how does catching one out at cheating make you a rules noob? Call they guy on it, it's bad enough to cheat by altering or intentionally abusing a rule, it's even worse to have to resort to fixing the random element of the game.

Agreed, if your friend is prepared to get abusive over the fact that you've caught him cheating at Toy Soldiers 40k you probably don't want to be playing him anyway.

The_Outsider
11-02-2009, 13:37
not that poisoned power weapons needed all that much help.



Fun Fact: the agoniser isn't poisoned.

Nor are poisoned blades either.

Levett
11-02-2009, 15:08
Nurgle Daemon Weapon owns now due to the poison rules. Re-rolling to wound vs equal or lesser toughness enemies is a gem.

slingersam
11-02-2009, 17:54
1.Ork warpheads don't have LD 30 just thought you guys should
know
2.Doubles are bad and 11 are ok for a SAGMeq, except for 12 WHICH IS WOOT!
3.Mega Armor nobs counts as if moving through terrain
4. If a unit is shooting within 2" of cover, you get a cover save (a stupid Tau player wouldnt let me have it even when I showed it to him and he read it)

Last but not least know most of the rules and dont be afraid to ask a
judge on something iffy.

Doppleskanger
11-02-2009, 20:26
Ooh I got another one
Watched a game the other night where this was done wrong and checked when I got home.
Feel no pain doesn't work agaisnt double toughness, close combat weapons which allow no armour save, dradnaught weapons, rending hits AND AP 1 and AP 2 hits, which apparently a lot of people are forgeting.

Spyral
20-03-2009, 17:24
however necron WBB works against ap2 and possibly ap1 ...

Also in terms of dice rolling... use coloured dice where possible. Offer you own dice. I feel happier rolling 8 rapid firing marines (16 white dice) 1 rapid firing plasma gun (2 red dice) and a multimelta (black dice - for a total of 19 dice) than all marines, plasma gun and then meltagun seperatly. Also people can and do atempt to eliminate the 1/6 or 2/5 side of the dice to give about a 75% of hitting rather than a 66% chance.. .total cheeseballery.

Also there's a blog 'how to win at 40k' which encourages this type of BS. It brings the game into bad repute.

HOWEVER. I have found when someone isn't mathematically minded, or is new, or is young or whatever it soemtimes helpsto do things seperatly rather than en mass.

sliganian
20-03-2009, 17:39
On the subject of dice rolling I tend to put the dice out into sub piles for each model in a unit, so my opponent can see I'm rolling the correct amount, then I pick up all the ones for a set initiative / weapon type and roll them. For special weapons (ranged and power) I tend to roll them individually so my opponent can see them.

When picking up dice I always pick up failures, the number of times I've had to call people on picking up hits that aren't isn't funny. Picking up failures avoids this as you and your opponent can see what's left on the table.

Try and figure out a method before hand regards cocked re rolls. Ensure there is consistency on what is re rolled.

Given the variability of force of throw, angle of the toss, terrain hit, surface of the table (bounce), I am continually amazed at how people get OCD over 'the dice balance' and think it actually matters.

Pwnigiri
20-03-2009, 18:08
I love this thread! Although I am quite disheartend at how many rules I appear to have been playing incorrectly...>_<



Another one is wrecks counting as both difficult and dangeous terrain, nearly every player i've fought hasn't noticed this. Check the rulebook.

Does this mean that you are able to climb onto a vehicle when it becomes a wreck? Providing you take a difficult and dangerous terrain test, that is? I had always assumed they were impassible.

CraftworldsRus
20-03-2009, 19:17
When picking up dice I always pick up failures, the number of times I've had to call people on picking up hits that aren't isn't funny. Picking up failures avoids this as you and your opponent can see what's left on the table.


Here is the worst bit, in the main rule books, I am 90% sure it tells you the best way to play is to pick up hits and re-roll them. I have had people refer to that when I asked them to change from picking ups hits to misses.

sukigod
20-03-2009, 20:31
I almost always forget the Don't Press Dat! rule for ork looted wagons. It's not intentional, I just plain forget until about turn 3. (sometimes I remember on turn 2 :) )

Enderel
21-03-2009, 12:08
Here is the worst bit, in the main rule books, I am 90% sure it tells you the best way to play is to pick up hits and re-roll them. I have had people refer to that when I asked them to change from picking ups hits to misses.

Just say your making it easier on them by removing the failures first so they can easily pick up all the hits and re roll them ;)

P19 (grey box) says about Speed Rolling, but you have to take into consideration the grey box on Page 2 in that case as well! Which in competitive environments is not always adherred to. :)

The one FNP rule most people seem to miss is the fact you can't take the "save" for failed dangerous terrain tests

Awilla the Hun
21-03-2009, 16:01
Broodlord has Power Weapons, not Power Fists.

Thud
21-03-2009, 16:13
Wraithlords tend to get stupid when too far away from psykers. Make sure your opponent rolls for wraithsight, I always forget to do it for my Wraithlords. :)

shin'keiro
21-03-2009, 16:21
Chaos - Lash of submission DOES give a cover save