PDA

View Full Version : C'Tan vs Chaos Gods



Silverbullet5774
11-02-2009, 04:28
So I know this might seem like a silly and pointless post, but it has been something I've been wondering. Since the C'Tan are Star Gods, and the Chaos Gods are ... Chaos Gods, which gods are more powerful. I have been assuming that the Chaos gods are more powerful since there is no "Chaos God Tzeentch" figure, but there is a "The Deceiver" figure. Any thoughts?

Reflex
11-02-2009, 04:32
doesn't even compare to how much more powerful the chaos gods are, so lets just leave it at that :)

Ivellis
11-02-2009, 04:32
Consider the tabletop version of the C'tan like avatars, they do not represent the true powers of the C'tan.

However they are still weaker than the Chaos Gods.

loveless
11-02-2009, 04:36
This is probably better suited to the background section.

Moreover, they're likely equal but different.

The Chaos Gods need the Warp to survive and seek to let it seep into reality.
The Star Vampires loathe the Warp and seek to cut it off from reality.

The Chaos Gods can do anything with the power of the Warp.
The Star Vampires can do anything without the power of the Warp.

The Chaos Gods can never truly die (as far as we know...though they can be wounded/attacked).
The Star Vampires can only be killed by another Star Vampire.

Both seek to have humanity in their thrall - the Chaos Gods because they enjoy having puppets, the Star Vampires because they need to feed off of lives and emotion.

Etc. etc. They aren't really comparable on the field of battle (against each other). The Warp is anathema to the C'Tan. The C'Tan have the knowledge to effectively seal off access to the Warp (i.e. the Pariah gene, supposedly the Cadian Gate may be of their making)

In short - they'd probably never meet.

Lord Raneus
11-02-2009, 04:45
I'm pretty sure the Chaos Gods would whomp on the C'tan if they were ever lined up across from each other and told to fight.

massey
11-02-2009, 05:02
Chaos gods are conceptual entities, and only the fact that they exist in a psycho-reactive ocean allows them to manifest. C'Tan are powerful energy beings that exist in the regular universe.

It's an odd question, like asking is a nuclear bomb more powerful than hatred.

Ultimately, if I had to choose, I'd give the nod to Chaos. While C'Tan feed on stars (slowly, over millions of years), the birth of Slaanesh produced the Eye of Terror, which is... pretty big. The Eldar gods also apparently fought against the C'Tan in a long war, but Slaanesh ate them all in a few moments.

Silverbullet5774
11-02-2009, 05:02
This is probably better suited to the background section.

Moreover, they're likely equal but different.

The Chaos Gods need the Warp to survive and seek to let it seep into reality.
The Star Vampires loathe the Warp and seek to cut it off from reality.

The Chaos Gods can do anything with the power of the Warp.
The Star Vampires can do anything without the power of the Warp.

The Chaos Gods can never truly die (as far as we know...though they can be wounded/attacked).
The Star Vampires can only be killed by another Star Vampire.

Both seek to have humanity in their thrall - the Chaos Gods because they enjoy having puppets, the Star Vampires because they need to feed off of lives and emotion.

Etc. etc. They aren't really comparable on the field of battle (against each other). The Warp is anathema to the C'Tan. The C'Tan have the knowledge to effectively seal off access to the Warp (i.e. the Pariah gene, supposedly the Cadian Gate may be of their making)

In short - they'd probably never meet.

Interesting, I didn't know all that about the C'Tan. This is of course only a hypothetical though. I realize that there probably wont be any C'Tan vs. Chaos showdowns happening any time soon. I just wanted to guage there power relative to one another, and I think you did a good job explaining it.

And if this needs to be moved to the background section thats fine, I just hang out in general most of the time and didn't even think to post this there.


It's an odd question, like asking is a nuclear bomb more powerful than hatred.

So what do you think, is a nuclear bomb more powerful than hatred??? Im gonna go with hatred> nuke.

ZOMGBBQ
11-02-2009, 05:16
C'Tan, Masters of Physical laws, able to bend time, space and matter to their will.

However, it still follows laws.

Chaos gods don't deal insomuch with laws as "Vague Guidelines" (Seemingly the Chaos Gods wrote the 5th ed Warhammer 40k Rules then)

Being able to turn air into solid gold doesn't help when the sky is made from Thursday purple flapjaw space. I need Scissors! 61!

Silverbullet5774
11-02-2009, 05:27
C'Tan, Masters of Physical laws, able to bend time, space and matter to their will.

However, it still follows laws.

Chaos gods don't deal insomuch with laws as "Vague Guidelines" (Seemingly the Chaos Gods wrote the 5th ed Warhammer 40k Rules then)

Being able to turn air into solid gold doesn't help when the sky is made from Thursday purple flapjaw space. I need Scissors! 61!

Haha, well I can't disagree with that point, because much like chaos in general... I have no clue :wtf: it means.

But yeah, it does seem that if Chaos doesn't have to follow the same set of rules that the C'Tan have to follow, then they are at a significant advantage.

Its kind of like The Matrix. The C'Tan are Neo before he figures out how to escape the confines of his mind, and Chaos Gods are Neo at the end of the movie, when he can jump into an agent and make them explode.

spriten
11-02-2009, 09:14
Chaos is kind of like an elemental power, vastly powerful and indestructable. They are gods, the C'Tan are powerful entities in their own right, but still, they are not omnipresent. And the C'tan are really just mighty parasites:P

So the gods are extremely stronger than the C'tan methinks

Askari
11-02-2009, 10:46
Both seek to have humanity in their thrall - the Chaos Gods because they enjoy having puppets, the Star Vampires because they need to feed off of lives and emotion.


It's the Chaos Gods which need the emotion, the C'Tan just their souls :confused:

Otherwise nice post.

The C'Tan aren't really gods however, sure they can "eat stars" and "move faster than light" but like already said, as they can't change the basic rules of the universe, and the Chaos Gods can in the Warp. Chaos Gods get my vote.

As far as I've read either, the C'Tan can't rip bits out of themselves to make miniature versions of themselves, [which the Chaos Gods, and one particular Eldar God, can do].

CthulhuDalek
11-02-2009, 10:51
Also, C'tan don't really ever have any mention of eating souls. Rather they feed of "life-force" which seems to be an entirely different area of energy.

It almost is like "a c'tan will absorb your nerve impulses."

Maybe someone who has more c'tan knowledge can further this? If C'tan ate souls they'd be chaos gods, since souls are warp energy.

Justicar Myo
11-02-2009, 12:17
This is probably better suited to the background section.The Star Vampires loathe the Warp and seek to cut it off from reality.


So your are saying that if the good forces of the Emperor were to team up with the C'tan Gods(not worship team up) then wouldnt they might be able to close the Eye of Terror sealing of the CSM

Justicar Myo
11-02-2009, 12:25
Also, C'tan don't really ever have any mention of eating souls. Rather they feed of "life-force" which seems to be an entirely different area of energy.

The Necrons are what you want to look at. Their race was on the verge of dying when the C'tan came they said "if you worship us we will save you" (not like that but that was a summary of it) so when they did the C'tan gods saved them and then that race became the Necrons. So I think what happen was the C'tan took away there emotions and most of there self thought and most of there organic parts so I think that is what the C'tan take.

Justicar Myo
11-02-2009, 12:30
I realize that there probably wont be any C'Tan vs. Chaos showdowns happening any time soon.

Any time Necrons and CSM fight its a fight between gods becasue its siad that when the forces of Chaos go to battle(unless the pick to worship one god)the gods watch them. So I think that the Necrons would have the same thing going on.

captainramoz
11-02-2009, 12:32
I think the C'Tan are very powerful cause they nearly destroy the old ones something chaos couldn't do. I think the chaos gods now that fighting against the C'Tan could well mean their destruction because the C'Tan necrons are numberless while chaos is not besides chaos gods depend from humans to exist C'Tan are independant and are planing tocut the warp from reality(make your own thoughts about that).

Justicar Myo
11-02-2009, 12:33
I'm pretty sure the Chaos Gods would whomp on the C'tan if they were ever lined up across from each other and told to fight.

Yea I mean what if the C'tan gods foght with the Chaos gods I mean the Chaos Gods could call ALL of their Deamons back to them(since they are all parts of there certian god)it would make them super powerful.


Then the God Emperor would come and kick both sides %$#

Hokiecow
11-02-2009, 12:48
the birth of Slaanesh produced the Eye of Terror, which is... pretty big. The Eldar gods also apparently fought against the C'Tan in a long war, but Slaanesh ate them all in a few moments.

Only because they have a connect to the warp. Slaanesh could never do that to a race that did not have a connect to the warp, like the Tau.

vahouth
11-02-2009, 13:44
The C'Tan cannot bend the rules of the Material Universe which is Order,
and the Chaos Gods cannot change the rules of their universe which is disorder.
The way i see it, each deity is strongest in their field -either universe- but the Chaos gods seem more energetic since only they have interests in the opposite plane.
If the C'tan would launch a campaign to the Warp they would probably mess things up pretty bad.;)
Just my two cents...

Mannimarco
11-02-2009, 13:59
arnt the c'tan afraid of the enslavers? thats why the necrons are trying to close the eye, its nothing to do with chaos in general?

remember that the c'tan arnt true gods, theyre mega powerful psyker type creatures with insane levels of power in the material universe, chaos gods on the other hand are just great big self sustaining emotional and psychic vortexs with insane levels of power in the warp but to do anything in the material world they need to send their daemons to do their bidding

loveless
11-02-2009, 14:39
Oh lord... too many things for me to use Multiquote on...

1) C'tan don't need emotion, Chaos does - yes and no. Chaos is empowered by emotion. The C'tan find emotion to be a "spice" for the life essence of their prey. This is why they sow fear and terror (the Nightbringer), deception (the Deceiver), madness (the Outsider), and so on. Also, they know enough to focus on individuals/races with extremely high levels of emotion - they'll have a greater influx into the Warp, making them a better target for the Harvest.

2) The C'tan can't break the laws of the universe. - ...what? This is potentially the worst offender in this thread :p Yes they can. They can walk on air, change the composition of a substance with a thought, etc. etc. The only thing they can't change to their whims is the Warp - which is undoubtedly part of the reason they loathe it so.

3) If the Imperium joined up with the C'tan, they could seal off the Eye of the Terror - Probably, but that would just give the C'tan one less thing to worry about. In effect, it would just step up their harvesting of humanity.

4) The C'tan are afraid of the Enslavers - it's not fear, so much - one of the C'tan is fear itself (Nightbringer - whose influence touched everyone but the (Kr)Orks and instilled fear in the universe). Rather, the Enslavers were bleeding the already diminishing food supply of the C'tan dry. Rather than try and deal with combating the Enslavers and trusting themselves not to gorge themselves anymore, the C'tan went into stasis, leaving their "herds" to fend for themselves until they had replenished. Think of stasis as a really long "brainstorming session". How do we (the C'tan) not screw this up again and starve to death after the Enslavers are gone? Overeating was akin to "global climate change" and the Enslavers were akin to "Al Gore" who brought the problem to the forefront.

5)The C'tan are psyker-type creatures - nope. Psykers imply dealing with the Warp. The C'tan loathe the Warp. They can't even enter it. Recall how the Nightbringer's "ultimate weapon" was hurled into the Warp just to keep it out of his hands.

Some other things I remembered/thought of:

- It's potentially inaccurate to say that a C'tan can only die by the hands of another C'tan. I seem to recall that the Talismans of Vaul are extremely potent against the C'tan. This is moot, of course, since they're all either destroyed or out of reach of the Farseers, meaning that any that remain are of no concern to the C'tan, since those in possession of them will never understand their true use.

- Killing a Chaos God. Not really possible in the general sense. It is possible, however, to hold back the Warp (another example is the constructions that the Necrons tried to surround Medusa V with). Now, while sealing off the Warp wouldn't kill a Chaos God, it would certainly make them a moot point in the galaxy. The C'tan need "only" seal off the Warp and use humanity like cattle to get their way. Effectively, that's the end-game of 40K where the C'tan win - losing the Warp is rather crippling to a number of races, after all.

Lord Damocles
11-02-2009, 15:48
- It's potentially inaccurate to say that a C'tan can only die by the hands of another C'tan.
There's not actually anything which says that C'tan can 'die' at all as far as I'm aware. Even when they're eaten by other C'tan (mainly the Nightbringer and Outsider), they don't seem to be completely destroyed - the Outsider was driven insane by fragments of it's victims bound within it's own necrodermis.

The other more impressive methods of 'killing' C'tan (the Talismans of Vaul and Asurman's rearrangement of stars) obviously didn't have the desired effect as the Void Dragon and Nightbringer respectively are still about.

-------------
Note, that I'm not saying that they deffinately can't be killed, but that there is no record of a confirmed kill.

Sir_Turalyon
11-02-2009, 15:49
This is potentially the worst offender in this thread Yes they can. They can walk on air, change the composition of a substance with a thought, etc. etc

C'tan are star-inhabiting xenos, so laws of physics don't have to affect them as they do to planet-inhabiting life forms. They surely can't be corporeal beings asw we are, given their natural enviroment they are perhaps creatures of plasma or pure energy or some other technobable. Whatever the case, while laws of physics apply to them, they bind them differently then planet-evolved creatures. They may also work around some physical bounds and get simingly impossible effects simply by understanding how physical world works (airplanes fly without breaking laws of gravity). It still does not make them gods, just sufficiently advenced and exotic xenos, who are tittled "Star Gods" due to courtuesy.

As to original question, answer depends whenever you ask Ordo Xenos or Ordo malleus inquisitor. Ask Ordo Hereticus and you'll hear imperial renegades are even more dangerous ;) .

Thanatos_elNyx
11-02-2009, 17:00
In short - they'd probably never meet.

end of thread.

CthulhuDalek
11-02-2009, 23:22
If C'tan actually "ate" emotion they'd be eating warp energy. Warp Energy is anathema to them. The Necrons codex implies that there is a difference between life-force and warp energy. That a human's life force will taste differently if it experiences emotions(remember, C'tan ate stars, which means that whatever sort of energy they absorb from humans is most likely a similar type of energy-- or at least energy that exists in the physical universe and not WARP energy.)

The Necrons had their "essence" not their souls put into their shells. There is no major distinction between life essence and warp essence, other than that they cannot be the same thing, otherwise they'd be able to deal with the warp.

EDIT.

Also, if a C'tan entered the warp (assuming it wasn't covered in a gellar field) it would be automatically destroyed since matter cannot exist in the warp. This would surely be the demise of a C'tan.

tacoo
12-02-2009, 01:01
too many variables to say who would win in a fight. neather is invincible in a sense. ctan cant soo much be killed (execpt in a few rare instintances like the vaul things). there necrodermis can only be destroyed, in which case they just go into a new one. chaos gods cant directly be destroyed in combat. the way to kill a chaos god is to kill as much stuff in the universe as you can or seal of the warp from realspace and vice-versa. you stop the flow of emotions to the warp, what makes a chaos god what it is is not there any more so the whole warp sorta just goes dorminate with nothing to make it up and all things in it will essentially also "starve" to death with out any emotions to make them powerful. if the two factions met in combat, eather the chaos gods would win if its in the warp or the c'tan would win if its in "real" space since if the chaos gods are in that deminsion, they must have been forced out and probably cut off if they met the c'tan