View Full Version : Apoc Ruleslawyeritis. How would you deal?

15-02-2009, 07:11
I played in my local GW's mega-battle/apoc game today. There were two players on one side(They had 4 scratch built warhounds, 2 scratch built warlords, and 15K of Blood angels) and ten of us arrayed on the other side to gather as many points as possible to oppose this.

I 'volunteered' to be the team captain for the horde of players. As we would do shooting from one edge of the field to the other, when ever we got to this one player would constantly stop everything and rules nitpick everything, while some of his issues were valid the constant rules badgering kept dragging the turns out so some people would not have time to fire or deal with their CC. I pulled him aside and asked him to tone it down because he was buzzkilling the game. His response was, "I have to be a rules lawyer because our opponent would cheat and pull stuff out of his *** if given a chance."

I was floored, our opponent was a long time vet, and he's a nasty RaW based player and fond of showing how absurd some of those RaW issues can be, but applying it to both sides. But he always played fairly and would let things be fudged both ways( Let a cocked die stand everyonce in a while in favor or not, let an opponent hit that assault thats a mm off the base, etc) So again I asked him to tone it down and he just eyerolled and kept to digging in constantly, even arguing when our opponent was doing things in this guys favor(Dante's mask needing an LD check to work according to the opponent and this guy saying it worked automatically, I will admit I don't know the BA gear well, but the guy was giving him a way to avoid a negative effect, trying to be casual for apoc).

Yeah I know this is a problem for any pick up multi game, but he was being a buzzkill to bothsides. yeah can't launch him from the game cause its a store event, any ideas how to limit these types of problem while still playing and trying to have everyone enjoying themselves?

15-02-2009, 07:29
If he keeps pulling crap like this call him on it in public. See if you can get other players to voice their consent and embarrass him into submission.

You gave him the chance to change his behaviour quietly and without event when you talked to him privately, so, honestly I don't think that would be too cruel.

15-02-2009, 08:12
Make sure he's always the last guy who gets to do anything in the turn but make hiim watch everyone else do stuff before him. Don't let him add his 2 cent to the strategy discussions if he's not prepared to hurry through the dice rolling.

Basically, make him see how standing there looking at someone else do something but not being allowed to push the game forward yourself can be.

If that doesn't help, just jump ship. Randomly organised team battles rarely work out to everyone's satisfaction anyway.

15-02-2009, 09:22
Definitely NOT the kind of player to play Apoc, which has so many gaping rules holes that it truly should only be played casually - The Most Important Rule is even doubly important in Apoc (don't get me wrong, I love Apocalypse!)

That said, when we play Apoc games, we dont wait each person through, we get as many people engaged at once as possible. If you're on one end shooting at one player's units, then another player on your team can be busy shooting another player's units elsewhere on the table. Same for movement - we all jump in moving, and same for assault. Don't wait each players turn out, get everyone engaged and moving - a lot more happens, and the game is that much more fun.

Lord Damocles
15-02-2009, 11:10
some of his issues were valid

Dante's mask needing an LD check to work according to the opponent and this guy saying it worked automatically

pull stuff out of his *** if given a chance."

Just to play Devil's advocate, from these examples, it would seem that he had a point...

15-02-2009, 11:16
if he's so hell bent on questioning every rule and ruining the game for the whole then he should leave the game for the good of the other gamers. mind you if he was doing it in my local gw or games club he'd not have much of an army left after the first few times of stalling the game. game stalling and questioning isn't tolerated when done in his fashion the apoc barrage template comes out and the more the questioning goes on the longer it stay's out.

15-02-2009, 12:39
Just to play Devil's advocate, from these examples, it would seem that he had a point...

It sounds like the Dante belonged to the opponent and he was offering to make it take a Ld check, but rules lawyer said no, it works automatically.

pull stuff out of his *** if given a chance."

Part of a quote by rules lawyer, not objective fact.

15-02-2009, 12:50
whats RaW please?

15-02-2009, 13:11
Rule As Written but can also be used Rule As Wanter (but here it's the first one)


15-02-2009, 13:41
Thats why when you play apoc you play it with mates, and chat before hand, competative apoc really is a joke!

15-02-2009, 14:12
There area few ways todeal with this...
1. Finish the unhappy game and then blackball him from ever playing another or getting the others present to refuse to play in one he is a part of if you cant blackball him as that would be essentially the same thing.
2. Do as others have alreadysuggested.
3. Speak with your other teammates and your opponants. Add in a new rule and have it votedon by the majority of players present. The new rule couldbe to add in a few extra turns of "open game" where everyone canshoot at any other player's models and have every player just "happen" to blow the annoying player's models off the field. If he doesnt have any models involved in the game, he wont be a part of it to slow you down.

15-02-2009, 14:45
There was this one bloke we were playing apocalypse with who kept challenging all sorts of rules. It got very tiresome, particularly in such a large game.

There would be many pointless, almost philosophical rules debates that, when observing from a distance, had so little point.

15-02-2009, 15:03
As a student in a medical terminology class, I believe it is my responsibility to tell you that "Ruleslawyeritis" means "inflammation of the rules lawyer."

15-02-2009, 15:53
Well that is quite apt then!

15-02-2009, 16:02
Sucks for me and anyone else who was raised to be a 'nice guy'. Nice guys want to keep their players in a good mood and more often than not refrain from any kind of confrontation (including talking to the player in private like the OP wrote) even if seemingly all hell is breaking loose. And then you have to deal with the akwardness that is seeing Mr. Negative Energy at your LGS and its especially hard if you're a new player at a LGS and don't want to risk hurting your reputation early.

Nice guys finish last in a lot of realms of life so if you see something that bothers you and its justified and you present it in a manner that is appropriate then let the dice gods be with ya!

15-02-2009, 17:29
Sounds pretty lame. I would try and remind him your playing an apoc game, and that it's supposed to be for fun. That it isn't balanced so there is really no need to nit pick everything. It's more about letting people have fun and trying to get the game done in an appropriate amount of time.

I would say, you have someone officiate the game. If someone is being a pain, let them deal with it. Make sure its someone who is nice, and fair and doesn't mind being the bad guy, as someone has to. Apoc can be so large, and so out of control, neves can be frayed. In the end its supposed to be fun though, make sure your opponent realizes that.

15-02-2009, 19:02
As has been said, someone like this shouldn't be playing Apocalypse. If he is a 'veteran', then he should know the nature of this kind of game. It sounds to me like hes just a bit of an attention grabber, and really there is very little you can do about it.

I only play games with multiple players on each side if I know them well enough to know that one of them isnt going to ******* up the game for everyone else, otherwise the kind of situation you have described is going to happen.

15-02-2009, 21:34
Just don't play him. problem solved

16-02-2009, 13:14
We have more an issue with some guys always complaining about how powerful apoc-datasheets of their opponent are and their own crap while they roll over enemy units with their apoc-units like nothing. Rules-lawyering is rather a minor problem in apoc.

In your case I would support the position of not playing him or confronting him in front of the whole gaming group after an eye-to-eye-talk didn't work out.

16-02-2009, 14:31
I know people just love to bash "rules lawyers," but if you would stop and think for a moment you would understand that a certain degree of rules lawyering is in fact good and necessary for the game to function for all parties.

A player comes to a game with certain expectations; they form strategies based on rules interactions, etc. If these rules are willy nilly ignored because "it will enhance the fun of the game" it might do some for the players who will benefit from this rules change, but it certainly will not enhance the fun of the player(s) not benefiting from the change.

In short, it is inappropriate to make up rules as you go during a game. Changes to the core ruleset are fine and good if agreed to prior to the start of the match but during the course of the game strict adherence to the rules as agreed is the only fair way to ensure every player has an equal chance at an enjoyable game. If no rules changes were agreed to prior to the start of the match, then implicitly you have agreed to play the rules as written.

16-02-2009, 17:26
I would call him out in public as mentioned above. It might make for an uncomfortable moment, but it usually works in solving the problem of someone being a horse's ****.

If he continues doing it, I just would not play him anymore.

Or you could just sockjack him and continue on with having fun. :angel:


The Orange
16-02-2009, 19:48
Maybe you should all agree to someone being the final mediator for the game (probably best if its someone not playing, make them like the dungeon master or whatever), make it known they have the power to declare however they see fit (for or against rules calls, etc.) in the ultimate interest of keeping the game going. It's Apocalypse, and especially in a scenario like that (in a store with a bunch of strangers) you need an ultimate authority figure if you want to get past those kinds of snags quickly. Otherwise the game gets bogged down in disagreements just like in the legislature :rolleyes:.