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View Full Version : Should Warriors of Chaos Have Harpies/Furies?



TroyJPerez
15-02-2009, 11:23
In the Warmaster game we have Harpies, and we used to have Furies. I think out of the entire book they are the one thing that is really missing. An effective fast moving unit that could hunt down gunlines and warmachines would be really useful. With Dark Elves and Demons being considered in the top teir of power level for armies and both of them getting flying core choice units. Would it unbalance warriors of chaos too much to give the slowest less manauverable army in the game a flying unit?

zak
15-02-2009, 11:26
I don't think it would have unbalanced them. I would have been happy for them to be in the rare section if it meant I could take them.

Urgat
15-02-2009, 11:30
Yes, I think they should, and they also should have made forsakens skirmishers, but then again, many armies should have things that they don't have (someday, maybe, my greenskins will have a skirmish unit... no, squigs don't count).

W0lf
15-02-2009, 11:33
Furies yes.

They should have been reserved for warriors and left out of Daemons. As the only undivided unit they stick out in DoC imo.

TroyJPerez
15-02-2009, 11:34
Savage orks used to be skirmishers if I remember right. BTW as a chaos player I'd kill for a 3d6 skirmish unit. The 2D6 chaos spawn just doesn't move fast enough, lol.

You know all of us who play warriors of chaos should write games workshop and demand they give us Furies or harpies! I'd settle for either one. Although I do perfer Furies. Maybe we can get them to add it into an errata for the book or something, lol.

zak
15-02-2009, 11:49
The Orcs have plenty of units that more than make up for the lack of skirmishers. They also have plenty of shooting to take out flyers, which helps and fast moving cavalry to take on flanking units.

Urgat
15-02-2009, 12:46
Nope, afaik savage orcs have never been skirmishers. As for fast cavalry, chaos warriors have it too. They only lack shooting, really. The question isn't really about what they ned I think, but what could be an interesting additional option. Flyers would be cool for chaos, as much as skirmishers would be usefull for greenskins, I believe. ANyway, I went OT with the greenskins, sorry. I think they should have furies, harpies fit more with DE, imho

Storak
15-02-2009, 13:07
In the Warmaster game we have Harpies, and we used to have Furies. I think out of the entire book they are the one thing that is really missing. An effective fast moving unit that could hunt down gunlines and warmachines would be really useful. With Dark Elves and Demons being considered in the top teir of power level for armies and both of them getting flying core choice units. Would it unbalance warriors of chaos too much to give the slowest less manauverable army in the game a flying unit?

furies are simply insane. 12 points with 5+ ward makes them about the price of an empire bowman..
small units can act as a screen against shooting for the first turn, then take out war machines. most armies simply can t do anything to prevent this.

cheaper than wolfriders, but flying skirmishers? insane.

if you want them added to WoC, they definetly need to be a rare choice, with serious number restrictions.


Nope, afaik savage orcs have never been skirmishers.

savage orcs were skirmishers when i started the game. (slightly underpriced: costing just as much as a normal orc, but with the ward and frenzy that still doubled attacks..)

orcs suffer badly from their loss of the savage orc skirmishers..


The Orcs have plenty of units that more than make up for the lack of skirmishers. They also have plenty of shooting to take out flyers, which helps and fast moving cavalry to take on flanking units.

i hope this was meant to be a joke. the best defense that O&G have against flyers is their cheap artillery.

educate me: with what "O&G shooting unit" would you should at flying skirmishers?

Prokrustes
15-02-2009, 13:12
Furies yes, Harpies no.
Harpies would be for the BoC.

Lordsaradain
15-02-2009, 13:16
Furies yes, Harpies no.
Harpies would be for the BoC.

Yeah, I agree.

Havock
15-02-2009, 16:33
Forsaken with 1 base attack, two for additional hand weapon, no frenzy, skirmish.
A bit cheaper -I'd do it for 14-15 pts- and perhaps Mv 5 instead of six.

as special and/or rares they have to contend with other harder stuff. Wouldn't remove our biggest weakness entirely, but it would at the very least give you a chance to stop high mobility armies from running circles around you. Without resorting to massive magic phases ;)

zak
15-02-2009, 17:58
Off topic - I have often used units of 10 S/orc bows at the back as cover. These can countercharge most things and win and can shoot....badly, but nonetheless they still can. A unit of wolf boys at the back can also dissuade flyers with there 18" charge.

theunwantedbeing
15-02-2009, 18:04
I dont see why the need them.

You have Warhounds and Marauder Horsemen to act as missle deterrants.
Why do you need Harpies/Furies?

They don't have a proper place in the WoC list so they aren't included.
Bit like how orcs dont get barded steeds and full plate armour and lances...or how elves dont get blackpowder weapons.

Neckutter
15-02-2009, 18:09
if WoC have dragon ogres/ogres/giants/spawns i dont see why they wouldnt have winged flying beast units as well. maybe the same mountains that are home to dragon ogres are home to harpies or something.

they need them to take out cannon crews or other skirmishers. the tactical flexability of the unit is huge. arguing that they dont need them, is arguing that ALL ARMIES doesnt need them.

and DE appearantly have blackpowder weapons in their repeater xbows since they get affected by rainlord much in the same way.

TroyJPerez
15-02-2009, 19:09
I think its funny that furies are ok for an army that has 4+ invulerable saves for one core unit, regeneration for another and fast moving infantry with 5+ ward saves. But the slow warriors of chaos shouldn't have them cause armies with warmachines wouldn't have anyway to deal with them? What about warriors of chaos that don't have many option to deal with a gunline? Sure we have dogs, but they can be marchblocked, easlily killed off by anything charging them, and they can't hit warmachines round 2 or fly over other units to charge a warmachine sitting on a hill.

Sideros Peltarion
15-02-2009, 19:34
They should be available because it is a Chaos army and they are Chaos creatures. It is like saying Space Marines can't use Terminators.
Simple as.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
15-02-2009, 19:40
SNIP
Would it unbalance warriors of chaos too much to give the slowest less manauverable army in the game a flying unit?

"Warriors of Chaos the slowest, least [I assume] maneuverable army"- I take it you have never played Dwarfs.

As for the question at hand, I do not think a core unit would be too bad. A bigger issue with WoC though is their LD.

isidril93
15-02-2009, 19:45
They should be available because it is a Chaos army and they are Chaos creatures. It is like saying Space Marines can't use Terminators.
Simple as.

its not as simple as that. space marines with no termies are like woc without chaos knights. thats more like space marines with no sternguard.

Sideros Peltarion
15-02-2009, 20:11
its not as simple as that. space marines with no termies are like woc without chaos knights. thats more like space marines with no sternguard.

Sorry I wasn't talking from a gaming perspective but from fluff. Harpies and furies are part of the hordes of Chaos that come down consisting of mortals, beasts and Daemons. They should all be together again.

isidril93
15-02-2009, 20:14
oh...well in that case i guess so
one or the other but not both (what would be the point)

Urgat
15-02-2009, 22:01
Bit like how orcs dont get barded steeds and full plate armour and lances...or how elves dont get blackpowder weapons.

Actually, I wouldn't mind black orcs mounted on barded boars as a rare choice, you know, with everybody getting super heavy cavfalry these days and all :p

As for skirmishing savage orcs, that must be ancient then, they were already RnF in the 4th/5th edition armybook.


Sorry I wasn't talking from a gaming perspective but from fluff. Harpies and furies are part of the hordes of Chaos that come down consisting of mortals, beasts and Daemons. They should all be together again.

Well, furies are demons, so that amounts to saying bloodletters or whatever sgould be in the book, and I think that topic has been discussed to death already.

sulla
15-02-2009, 22:04
I voted no. At least not unless they nerf marauder horse and increase the cost of dogs to about 10pts each to reduce their ease of use as redirecters.

Every army doesn't need to compete in every tactical area.

O&G'sRule
15-02-2009, 22:07
I don't think you can say chaos warriors compete in every tactical area as (apart from the hellcannon) they cant shoot. However I don't think harpies should be in the army as you either have a separate daemon army or you don't

kaulem
15-02-2009, 22:33
Nope, afaik savage orcs have never been skirmishers. As for fast cavalry, chaos warriors have it too. They only lack shooting, really. The question isn't really about what they ned I think, but what could be an interesting additional option. Flyers would be cool for chaos, as much as skirmishers would be usefull for greenskins, I believe. ANyway, I went OT with the greenskins, sorry. I think they should have furies, harpies fit more with DE, imho

They definitly were skermishers in 5th ed. The only O&G unit that could get grappling hooks for sieges!

Darkmaw
15-02-2009, 22:47
I voted no because of the warhounds and core fast calvary which they already have.

Esp the slannesh marked horsemen, they will reach their target unless they get blown away; which is pretty similar to what other flying warmachine hunters have to offer.

On the other hand, i think WOC can do with some skirmisher units.

sulla
16-02-2009, 04:26
On the other hand, i think WOC can do with some skirmisher units.

...Which forsaken probably should have been, I reckon.

Faust
16-02-2009, 04:55
I agree with theunwantedbeing they are simply not needed. You have the tools given to you in the WoC book. Warhounds, MHorsemen, and god forbid a Demon Prince. Just have to shift around a bit how you used to play.

KillbotFactory
16-02-2009, 05:38
I am sorry but hounds/marauder horse are not the same as furies. As a unit to redirect/bait they do a fine job but when it comes to hunting down war machines and shooters the only thing that can do it right now for chaos are the characters.

Chaos isn't the least maneuverable army out there but they are definitely the most prone to being march blocked and avoided. Chaos is not overly weak but I don't see a good reason why they should be the only army without access to skirmishers(being it flying or regular).

Ward.
16-02-2009, 07:48
A bigger issue with WoC though is their LD.
Because everything needs to be LD 10.


maybe the same mountains that are home to dragon ogres are home to harpies or something.
So long as it's not harpies, as in warhammer they're known for living in purely naggoroth.



if you want them added to WoC, they definitely need to be a rare choice, with serious number restrictions.

This would work pretty well.


I am sorry but hounds/marauder horse are not the same as furies. As a unit to redirect/bait they do a fine job but when it comes to hunting down war machines and shooters the only thing that can do it right now for chaos are the characters.


Not being able to hit them on turn 2 doesn't make them bad at hunting warmachine, as of now dogs/horsemen that can re-roll panic and troops that can withstand an extra turn of ranged punishment are at a great balance.

Make them a rare choice and give forsaken skirmishing and I doubt anyone would have any reason to complain about the book anymore.

Putty
16-02-2009, 08:10
i used to think the loss of furies in WoC would be devastating.

i was wrong. the army functions well without it.

i am very pleased that marauders can take marks now, that is the single most significant improvement.

i ignore EotG (gimmick) and focus the army list around bread and butter issues like combat res, hammer & anvil unit, screens and magic.