View Full Version : Rule Proposal, All Generic Ward Saves Negated by Magic

18-02-2009, 09:03
Thinking this might make warhammer more interesting. All other forms of saves have a way to get through them so why not make ward saves the same way? Basically what would you think if all generic univeral ward saves were negated by magic? You could still keep conditional ward saves against whatever they are designed to protect against, but a universal ward save would be negated by magic. This would make demons more managable and make Pheonix Guard less annoying. Any comments or ideas how this could mess up the game? Or thoughts on how this would effect the game?

18-02-2009, 09:06
It would also make a lot of items overpriced and squew the costing of the Treespirit Wardsave. It is good as is, the bad thing was to make Daemons of Chaos get a generic wardsave instead of a Daemonic one which they used to have.

Lord Malorne
18-02-2009, 09:06
I play wood elves and having a magic useless ward save sucks.

Neknoh:The DoC had a real ward save in the storm of chaos book as Daemonic leagions or whatever, I agree that they should sufer the wrath of magic without a save though...damn magical beings.

18-02-2009, 09:10
I know fully well that they had it, I played them allong with Archaon's Horde. The problem was that allready there, we saw tendencies for silly things... and GW seem to have ignored said tendencies or simply didn't remember them

18-02-2009, 09:10
That would make taking a ward save on a character really useless - especially a character like a Thane with 4+ ward save, designed for just soaking up wounds from enemy characters.

18-02-2009, 09:26
Simply No.

I am quite happy with the current rules for generic ward saves, and I like my Bretonnian ward saves to much.

'nuff said.

18-02-2009, 09:35
It would be like "fixing" high elves by giving all of them ASF, or something. "Fixing" something that isn't quite balanced, by changing the whole rule, that affects other armies too, that are not broken.


18-02-2009, 11:55
more magic missiles? no thanks.

18-02-2009, 12:02
I say we remove magical items.
And magic.
And any army that isnt empire or bretonnians.

There we go, warhammer is saved :D

Seriously though....

Ward saves arent overpowered.
Sure the DE one you have trouble with, but then again thats you own silly fault for hitting him with st5+ things, or for that matter actually hitting him in the first place. The rest of the army is t3 with a 2+ save at best (more likely 5+/4+) hit them instead!
Also with daemons, yes its annoying.....would be nice to see normal daemons only get a true ward save by being joined by a herald of their god, or by being within 6"(or maybe 12") of a greater daemon of the same god though.
Maybe next time eh?

I bet those are the 2 real reasons you want ward saves all nerfed to hell.
Maybe the bretonnian ward save too...that 6+ ward has saved far too many knights from an arrowey doom...

It would weaken the ward save far too much though, magic missles are very common and plenty can kill the enemy character if they arent getting their ward save. Seems too good to be true really.
As a dark elf player it's more for my opponents sake....dark elves can do a seriously large amount of magical damage, far too good if the enemy never got their ward saves. I personally never use the pendant, I dont need a ward save when the other guy never gets to hit my character's :P

Desert Rain
18-02-2009, 12:05
Simply no. It would nerf every ward save giving item in the game. 'Nuff said.

Leth Shyish'phak
18-02-2009, 12:13
What about giving magical attacks the chance to modify ward saves in the same way as they would to armour saves?

The SkaerKrow
18-02-2009, 12:26
Magic is already powerful enough, it doesn't need to be made moreso by giving it some strange ability to pierce Ward saves.

18-02-2009, 12:47
No, ward saves need to be left alone. I don't even have a problem with teh Daemon ward save, the units just need to be costed appropriately. Ward saves are not a problem, it is the cost of those ward saves that need to be examined. You also shouldn't have them modified by magic because most ward saves are already pretty low, 5+ or 6+.

18-02-2009, 12:56
No just because they had no idea what they were doing when they wrote Demons and High Elves doesn't mean that everyone else should suffer. Often times the ward is the only thing keeping you alive from magic attacks.

Of course the proliferation of these silly 2+/3+/ 4+ ward saves needs to stop. It's getting ridiculous.

18-02-2009, 14:07
Gods no.

Ward saves on characters are there to stop enemy characters from killing your character. If magic weapons ignore the saves, than characters will have almost no defense most of the time. And that's no fun. The best character duels last multiple turns, not ending on the first round before on side even attacks.

The Red Scourge
18-02-2009, 15:33
Nothing wrong with ward saves. The DE 2+ save is might a bit too much, but it is only one man.

Dumping the daemonic rule for daemons ward saves was a bit silly (they could just have had their characters buy proper ward saves), but the whole thing screwed up the balance between ethereals, forest spirits and daemons, and even worse it caused the magical attack ability to become obsolete (even nerfing daemons).

But you need the ability to protect your general from harm, otherwise we'll just end up with a sad lot of wizards to lead the armies instead of brave and heroic fighters :)

18-02-2009, 17:00
A thousand times no. As many have already stated, there is no need for magic to become any more potent, and Ward Saves in general are not a problem. Not even Daemons, because with a 'negated by magic' save, their infantry becomes fragile and overpriced, just like it was back in the old HoC book. And we all know how many players seriously took Daemonic infantry back then...


18-02-2009, 17:51
I agree with everyone else that ward saves are fine the way they are. By allowing magical attacks to negate ward saves, you screw over certain armies and units (wardancers, Savage Orcs, Daemons), and army lists would rely on cramming as many casters in as possible (and Thorek Ironbrow would become even more hated).

18-02-2009, 17:52
Magic is already powerful enough, it doesn't need to be made moreso by giving it some strange ability to pierce Ward saves.


Magic that isn't attacks is already powerful enough. Vaul's Unmaking, Danse, Raise, etc etc...

Certain casters and one or two lists, are already powerful enough. Demonic Lore of Tzeentch, the ability to have like 6-7 casters in an army, etc...

Magic as a whole, is gimped because of the millions of cheaper ways to stop it - unless you're facing VC or a ridic demon list.

Dooks Dizzo
18-02-2009, 18:45
Generic as in Daemon? Yes.

Generic as in magic item? Hell no.