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Mojaco
02-05-2005, 22:25
Working for GW has some good advantages :)

Alright, first off: This is not a battle-report, this is just some firsthand insights into the new army. I unfortunaly didn't have a wide selection of models, so I had way too many Warriors (14). In the old days you needed that many to ensure some to make it to the end. Well, those days are over! A mighty 10 survived the battle, which is an all time first.

I used the new Tyrant (no wings, since it's a store model and thus not converted), an old carnifex (which will dub nicely as an elite selection Carnifex in the future), 14 Warriors, 40+ hormagaunts, 12 spinegaunts and 2 zoanthropes.

The battle was against IG.

Interesting points:
- No instakill is uber. This really, really makes a lot of difference.
- 1 super-tooled Carnifex is still toast if someone wishes it dead. So all the cool toys weren't used :( On the bright side, it did draw more fire then before, because of his 5 wounds and his regeneration of one (should've been more, but alas). But anyway, always take two :)
- Hormagaunts are still nice, but I will take less in the future. They're too expensive to be shot as easily as they always are.
- Spinefists are quite potent weapons now.
- My tyrant can't hit *****.

Not too many insights, huh? Because of my huge amount of warriors I didn't have points for more flashy stuff, I didn't have trouble with things running out of synapse, and generally had a somewhat boring list. I guess I just didn't have a lot that used spectacular new rules, beside the carnifex and the uninstakillability.

Still to be tested:
- Is the broodlord as good as it looks on paper?
- Will fleet of footing, 4+ armour save genestealer make a comeback on people's army lists?
- Raveners or Warrior: take either or do they complement one another?
- Biovores: still good?
- Lictor: did it get better?
- Endless tides of gaunts: waste of points?

In the end, after reading the codex a couple of times now and having used it, it's remarkable how few has changed. Sure, a lot of small things, but in the end the most striking things are the carnifex codex entry and the no-instakill bit. But most important, I feel confident no two Tyranid army-lists will look the same over and over again after the new dex comes out. There's just so many viable options now!

Hmm... Reading through my post I notices a huge lack of story coherency... o well. I said what I wanted to say.

Any Q's, fire.

Brimstone
02-05-2005, 22:31
Well some of my experiences from playing with the new codex so far are:

- Bivores are very nasty against vehicles
- Broodlords and their retinue attract a lot of fire and die quite easily (however I need more experience in using them before I dismiss them).
- Do not let your hormagaunts get out of synapse when assaulting, with LD5 the results are not good if they lose combat.
- I will be using a lot of winged warriors to keep up with the assault broods.

Ruskins
02-05-2005, 23:09
Also Zoanthroaps pop Crusaders good.

Inquisitor Engel
03-05-2005, 00:44
- Will fleet of footing, 4+ armour save genestealer make a comeback
I think the scuttling FoF Genestealer is even worse. :( It rips the crap out of anything. First. Turn. Charge.

clarkdobbs112
03-05-2005, 01:39
first turn charge? how's that? 6'' scuttle, 6'' move, 6'' maximum fleet, 6'' charge... only works if they're within 24'' (and trust me, against bugs they're not)

Negafex
03-05-2005, 02:00
im not sure if you can still do it in the new codex but using 3rd ed. i solved the gaunt synapse problem by mutating one with hive node so if you can still do that then.........

Brimstone
03-05-2005, 05:02
No more Hive nodes in the new codex.

Darius Rhiannon
03-05-2005, 05:45
Clark, I think what Engel was referring to the fact that Genestealers can infiltrate IIRC.

This would mean 12" if they are not in LOS
18" if they are.

Since fleet of foot ignores difficult terrain, those genestealers can make it. In fac they can make it quite easily.

Brimstone
03-05-2005, 05:52
Troop choice Genestealers cannot infiltrate anymore they get fleet instead.

Only the Broodlord and his retinue can infiltrate and they lose fleet.

Negafex
03-05-2005, 20:45
if there is no more hive node then are my gaunts screwed if they get out of synapse range or did they make the instinct behavure chart more leanient? sorry for any mispeling

Brimstone
03-05-2005, 21:00
I suggest you pop into the rumour forum and read Wraith's rumour collection on Tyranids.

Gop
04-05-2005, 22:53
Nooooo, no more hive node? Oh well, just calls for different strategy, eg. keeping a synapse creature close by. Sounds like I can dust off the genestealers and zoanthropes that have been in the bottom of my cabinet. Now if only the codex would make it to Oz a bit quicker...

hood_oz
04-05-2005, 23:25
Now if only the codex would make it to Oz a bit quicker...

Buy it online from overseas.

I am always ruining my surprise by seeing the latest stuff form the WD here, and not having to wait a month to see it. Yes, we are a month behind in most instances.

Not terminators though!

But would LOVE to get my hands or is that claws? on the new shiny codex....

Aquila
05-05-2005, 03:06
From what I've heard, the Tyranids are going to be nastier than ever (if that's even possible).

What I'd like to know is if you've noticed any new weaknesses that could possibly be exploited (besides the lack of hive nodes, which should give warriors a comeback - we'll see).

Jmitchell
05-05-2005, 18:33
Synapse is the main weakness now because of no hive nodes.

So if shoo the big ones still exists, I would say that its quite a big disadvantage (this is especially good to do if they take sustained assualt, which is a bargain!)

Aquila
05-05-2005, 20:34
Unfortunetly, shoot the big ones does not exist anymore. Tyranids fall under the same targeting rules as every other army. So, you can still shoot at them, you just have to pass a leadership test. Not a huge difference really... but ya never know.

In addition to that, the Synapse power means that you can't insta-kill warriors with rocket launchers or battlecannons anymore. Which makes them even harder to kill.

And on top of THAT... the instinctive behavior chart is a little more forgiving. If you fail the test, 'lurk' just makes them move towards the closest synapse creature and puts them back in synapse range. If he's got a winged Tyrant (most Tyranid players do) the gaunts will end up running TOWARDS your lines.

With the increased survivability of Tyrants and Warriors, I think that gunning for the Synapses is going to be harder and less effective than ever.

boogle
05-05-2005, 20:53
heavy bolter heavy armies should do really well against these

Venerable Dred
05-05-2005, 20:56
Unfortunetly, shoot the big ones does not exist anymore. Tyranids fall under the same targeting rules as every other army. So, you can still shoot at them, you just have to pass a leadership test. Not a huge difference really... but ya never know.
Which is where Psychic Scream comes into play. ;)



And on top of THAT... the instinctive behavior chart is a little more forgiving. If you fail the test, 'lurk' just makes them move towards the closest synapse creature and puts them back in synapse range. If he's got a winged Tyrant (most Tyranid players do) the gaunts will end up running TOWARDS your lines.
I thought that "Lurk" was actually an option for Nids that were out of Synapse range. Basically letting them remain stationary and fire their ranged weapons, AND getting +1 to any cover save they may have.


Anyhow, I do agree that when they fail their Ld5 test, having them move towards a Synapse Creature that is closeer to the enemy will be an interesting option when it happens.

metzler
05-05-2005, 21:32
I'm really happy about the new feel of the tyranids, I always imagined a tyranid attack as warriors surrounded by gaunts with a hive Tyrant and Carifex here and there, and it looks like the codex supports that. Also Its good that genestealers have a better save, it separates them from the gaunts more.

Aquila
05-05-2005, 22:00
Sorry Venerable, you're right on the lurk. I can't remember the name of the rule.

Metzler, to be honest, I don't see how the 'feel' of the army has changed at all. It is still essentially the same list, except now everything's stronger and you can take 6 carnifexes. Carnifecii? Heh. Yeah, anyway, Tyranids were already pretty damn tough. I guess I'm just scared. I'll admit it :D

Negafex
06-05-2005, 00:24
wouldnt it be funny if the plural for carnifex was carnifiecies hehehehe poop joke

Jmitchell
06-05-2005, 09:49
Yes, yes it would. But then i've seen a model that someone named the 'carnagifex'.

Anyway... no insta kills gonna be a bitch, and i think we'll be seeing more warriors in games, and they **** me off already, especially when they can fly!

Oh well, i've got alot of heavy bolters, but still as per the previos posts, i'm just scared of em!

Azazel
06-05-2005, 12:23
Warriors becoming immune to Instant Death is just the surface of things.
Zoanthropes will no longer get killed by the odd lascannon shot since they got 2 wounds (although Id give mine Warp Blast and still keep near a Synapse creature).
And Ripper Swarms will become really annoying, use them to tie up a unit whilst the monsterous creatures move in for the kill.
Well someone might correct me but I aint got the Codex ATM, so dont take this as gospel just yet. :P

Lion El Jason
06-05-2005, 12:33
Warriors always die to heavy bolters not krak missiles so I dont think they'll have the boost.

'Tropes and Rippers will be the big beneficiaries of the no instakill. Unless they did something else with warriors I think they'll still be just as useless...

Sgt John Keel
06-05-2005, 16:54
heavy bolter heavy armies should do really well against these

My thoughts exacly. Now I'll just get someone to play them, I'm tired of mowing down Orks.

Anyway, is Carnifices really that dangerous? I fail to see how they could be in close combat for more than two rounds in a game, and I doubt their usefulness as heavy weapon platforms. Can't you just ignore them?

/Adrian

Atrix
06-05-2005, 16:59
Yeah, I am way more excited about giving 'thropes synapse and negating insta-death there. Warriors get no insta-death is just fixing an error on the designers part in 3rd ed. It doesn't really stop the fact that warriors are expensive and fragile, kind of like a crisis suit. Still useful mind you, but very fragile.

Scythe
06-05-2005, 17:14
My thoughts exacly. Now I'll just get someone to play them, I'm tired of mowing down Orks.

Anyway, is Carnifices really that dangerous? I fail to see how they could be in close combat for more than two rounds in a game, and I doubt their usefulness as heavy weapon platforms. Can't you just ignore them?

/Adrian

Well, ignoring them might be a little more compilcated when you're stuck in a unit of 20 gaunts... And then there can be up to 6 of them (tough that wouldn't be so effective I think).


Yeah, I am way more excited about giving 'thropes synapse and negating insta-death there. Warriors get no insta-death is just fixing an error on the designers part in 3rd ed. It doesn't really stop the fact that warriors are expensive and fragile, kind of like a crisis suit. Still useful mind you, but very fragile.

Maybe so, but remember gaunts etc are now a lot more dependant on synapse to remain on the table. That and they give creatures like raveners, lictors and non-synapse thropes near also immuune to instant kill, and that's quite nice especially for the latter two choices. Also I seen to remember they gone down a bit (tough not a lot) in pts cost. And then there's the now usefull shooting options; 24" deathspitter and an 18" reroll to wound devourer.
I agree with you, warriors are still a bit fragile when facing heavy bolters, but I think we're going to see some more of them in nid armies, as it should be. And they survive battle cannon shells quite nicely now ;)

Jmitchell
06-05-2005, 21:24
The ripper swarms are'nt synapse creatures, so it does'nt apply, they're just fearless. But they can't be insta killed anyway (swarm base), but they can still take two wounds to blast weapons. I think.

I'd be more worried about the throapes...

Nurgling Chieftain
06-05-2005, 21:53
The ripper swarms are'nt synapse creatures, so it does'nt apply, they're just fearless. But they can't be insta killed anyway (swarm base), but they can still take two wounds to blast weapons. I think.
I wish! My nurglings would be so unstoppable. Anyway, swarms, strangely enough, are not immune to insta-kill from high-strength weapons. Watch out for all those multi-shot str-6 guns floating around...

Lion El Jason
06-05-2005, 23:35
they arent synapse creatures but you can put them in synapse range.

Last time I played 'nids I wiped out whole units of rippers with assault cannon ("Oh three '6's thats three bases dead and another 4 dead on 2+...") That will not be happening to my rippers if I put them in synapse range:)

Jmitchell
07-05-2005, 09:33
I thought that the actual model had to be a synapse creature? Not just under synapse control.

Oh well, i'll check up the rules soon... exists to go buy the new codex

Jmitchell
07-05-2005, 09:47
Oops, just remembered. New codex is'nt out in the UK till the 4th of June "sigh". Oh well, i can wait, i can wait...

Scythe
07-05-2005, 10:06
Nope, any creature within synapse becomes immuune to instant kill. Check the rumours section for more details. ;)

Lardidar
07-05-2005, 23:01
Sorry to say that rippers are not affected by synapse so can still be insta killed.

However it will work on zoanthrope

Azazel
08-05-2005, 02:16
So reguarding the Termaguants 'Wthout Number' rule, soes that make them count as a troop or heavy choice? Do they come on from your table edge or Deep Strike?