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Le Shirrif
05-04-2009, 18:13
I was wondering what the more experienced players thought about equipping WoC knights.

Lances or Ensorcelled Weapons?
Is it worth getting Musician/Standard/Champion?

Also, post any good combinations for knights.
E.G Mark of Tzeentch, Blasted Standard for resistance to shooting.

bob_the_small
05-04-2009, 18:33
I prefer ensorcelled weapons, it makes them str5 always, and they can take out ethereal thingies. Yes the command can really help, especially with the champion, the MoT and Blasted Standard is good, but I find that not much gets past their armour saves anyway.

Ujio
05-04-2009, 19:04
Never, ever replace their weapons for lances. I mean come on the guys get these awesome crazy magicky weapons, dont replace them with silly lances. Fluff aside I personally prefer regular str5 magic weapons to a +2str on the charge. As for a banner i think a warbanner is nice and cheap and provides that little bit extra. I've recently dropped both the champion and musician and seen that these guys are still performing well. Not having to fight a challenge is is a bonus when u start to get sick of the novelty and the extra points can be spent elsewhere. As for marks i think nurgle is still a little help from shooting, albeit a more expensive 1.

W0lf
05-04-2009, 19:16
The biggest strength of chaos knights is that they hit pretty much as hard second round as they do first round (I5, always S5). I like ensorcelled weapons. Tbh if lances were FREE i wouldn't bother.

Monsterzonk
05-04-2009, 19:55
Actually I've tried lances on them and they worked brilliantly! To be honest, if your Knights must endure a second round of combat, something has already gone wrong. They are there to break the enemy on the turn they charge, and thus I like lances for them.
Combining the Mark of Nurgle with the Banner of Rage also has worked wonders, even though you have to be careful with frenzied Knights...

Kerill
05-04-2009, 20:42
Lances depend on a couple of things, whether you tailor your list, whether they are khornate (not banner of rage) and whether you have multiple units of knights.

If you list tailor then they are good against some opponents (WOC, dwarves, orcs and lizardmen) otherwise go for ensorcelled weapons.

Assuming you don't tailor

If the unit is not khornate, go for ensorcelled weapons.

If you have only 1 unit of knights, go for ensorcelled weapons.
If you have 2, probably go for ensorcelled weapons, but lances on one unit isn't a bad idea either.
If you have 3, give lances to one unit of Khorne knights, you have enough units to pick and choose combats and khornate knights with S5 can bounce off some units on average and will bounce off harder stuff more often if you don't have S6. The reduction to S4 second round is more than made up for by the continuing frenzy of the knights.

Just one example:
6 Khorne knights with bannercharge your typical temple guard unit. They lose by probably break, but lose frenzy even if they hold and will lose the next round by a fair margin. If they had lances they would win the combat, have killed more temple guard (7) and second round would actually win on average (3 kills, banner and US).

Then consider any monster in the game. Stegadons can take a charge from ensorcelled weaponed knights and will only take 2 wounds on average. Lances will put 3.5 wounds on the steg and can finish it next turn.

Dragons are the same, as soon as you get to T6 lances get much better.

Units with the banner of rage should always have ensorcelled weapons.

So basically ensorcelled weapons are far better but I wouldn't go as far as to say lances are always a bad idea, on one unit for flexibility is handy as well. If you have a high S hitter in your list (Ogres or dragon ogres) then take ensorcelled weapons for all your knights.

Dexter099
05-04-2009, 21:42
Ensorcelled weapons.
Mark of Tzeentch.
Full Command
7 Knights.
I have 2 units of these guys.

Rubicon
06-04-2009, 20:47
Never, EVER take a champion, unless you plan on having another character in the unit. All that will happen is that your unit will get charged by a flying beastie and the champion will get challeged out. You don't need the extra attack since your multiple attack knights will win the combat anyway. Take a standard bearer only if you are also going to take a magic banner and a musician if you have the points. You shouldn't be drawing combats and you shouldn't ever be fleeing.

My standard build is 6 knights, MoN, Banner of Rage. That way you are hitting maximum frontage against 5 wide 20mm bases to maximise attacks but not risking the challenge. 300 points too.

Cypher, the Emperor
07-04-2009, 02:37
I like the banner of the gods, but i'm in the minority here IMO. I just like having a character with BoTG in a knights unit in under 2k points, and then a giant bringing even more ASF terror to the field, its a build thats been working well for me.

Lances are just bad, maybe if they were free I'd take them against like Dwarfs where that extra str is needed, but then if they don't get an absolute sterling charge your stuck at Str4, which is much worse than str5 on the charge. IMO

Jericho
07-04-2009, 03:35
Another reason not to take champs, they do not count as rank and file for the purposes of Look Out Sir. So you need 5 + character + unit champion to be useful. IMO not worth it.

Nazgit the Exorcist
07-04-2009, 03:53
Never, EVER take a champion, unless you plan on having another character in the unit. All that will happen is that your unit will get charged by a flying beastie and the champion will get challeged out. You don't need the extra attack since your multiple attack knights will win the combat anyway. Take a standard bearer only if you are also going to take a magic banner and a musician if you have the points. You shouldn't be drawing combats and you shouldn't ever be fleeing.


Good point.

I tend to just go for full command to cover all bases regardless, eating valuable points. But this unit is supposed to be the battering ram of a chaos list so maximising that makes sense.