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Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 17:59
This is a 3k army list for VC's that im thinking of playing soon.I'm looking for what u guys think about it and where you think i could improve upon it.

Count Mannfred with Skull staff and Book of Arkhan riding Barded Nightmare (in Blood knights)

Vampire Lord w/ Avatar of death,Infinite Hatred, Red Fury,Cadaverous Cuirass , crown of the damned and hand of dust (In Skeletons w/out Champ)

Vampire BSB w/ Dread Knight and the drakenhoff banner (in Blood Knights)

Vampire w/ Summon ghouls , Dark acolyte , flayed hauberk and Black periapt (in ghouls)

Vampire w/ walachs bloody Hauberk,Dark acolyte,and Lord of the dead (in skellys w/ champ)

Vampire w/ Staff of damnation,talisman of Lycni,dark acolyte and summon ghouls.On foot move 9 floating behind ghouls/other stuff to get the most out of the staff.

10x Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast

10x Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast

10x Skellys w/ champ and spears.

10x Skellys w/ spears

5x Blood Knights w/ Champ and SB champ has biting blade and SB carries the flag of Blood Keep

1x Varghulf

1x Varghulf

Yep 2 Varghulfs for flanking and as i've never played w/ any varghulfs before i'm not really that sure how well they play.Any advice on them would be welcome.If you think there not really that good for my current list tell me what you think i should play instead of them. Like Maybe a few Cairn wraiths and change the Lord to a Ethereal lord or something of the like? I'm also going to be playing this 3k army against lizard men so anything you think would be good against them would be nice aswell if i need to change anything.

Malorian
06-04-2009, 18:17
Well being against liszardmen you don't need to wory about losing those units to shooting before you rasie them, but I think you are a lot of trouble.

Spear saurus tear ghouls and skeletons apart, and that's pretty much all your army. Then you have the monster blood knight unit, but lizardmen will obviously have skinks and terradons to bait them. A deathstar can't do much then it's batied into some trees or is flanked.

Something you and your opponent will need to work out is how the engine of the gods will work. The magical part won't matter since you don't have anything ethereal (unless you add them) but the flaming part will be critical to your vargs and the drak banner.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 18:26
yea we have looked over the engine of the gods it isnt magical or flaming in the rules to be a flaming attack it MUST say that it counts as a Flaming attack and it doesnt he agrees aswell.I've played alot against WoC , HE , Empire , and DE but this will be my 1st game against the new lizardman army. I was hoping that the fact that every Vamp except the 1 lord that isnt my general and the BSB can IoN my core units above there starting number would help equalize some of the disadvantages i have plus there are vamps in almost every unit.Add that Mannfred gets VDM auto and the book and should have it on atleast 1 other character alot of my units should be striking 1st (atleast the combats that matter.) Dance into the charge w/ units and dance them again for the strikes 1st is really nice. W/ the Varghulfs running around should be able to stir up some trouble for the lizzys i figured.anyway what would u suggest i change about the list then?

Malorian
06-04-2009, 18:37
If you are going to go with blood knights then you will need hounds to keep you from charging off where you don't want to be.

I'd also plan to have the Lycni vampire be a priest assassin so you can shut down an EotG.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 18:39
should i give him the flying power then if he's going EotG hunting in your opinion? or do u think he's fine as is?

Malorian
06-04-2009, 18:43
Seeing as how it will most likely be a suicide mission I would keep him as cheap as possible and move some of that gear around.

If you don't want it to be a suicide mission then you'd have to try it with an etheral flying lord...

The main thing is to get rid of the 3 PD, 2 DD, and that laser beam.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 18:54
great thanks alot for the input. I dont really see a better choice in my core units against his army since nothing but zombies , skellies , and ghouls even count towards core minimums so i dont have much flexibility there. guess i'll just hope the Varghulfs can protect the flank and allow other units to get flanks.Lizards have been an army i thought i didnt have the best chance against for awhile now.them and HE as the 2 scariest imo. But the army feels more flexible and i'll try to screen the deathstar knights as best as i can before i can get in charge range.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 19:26
Also was wondering if anyone thought of a better place for the Vamp lord besides the skelly unit.Doesnt really feel right him inside the skellies , seems subpar but not sure what unit would be optimal.

Malorian
06-04-2009, 19:39
One thing to keep in mind is that ghouls do better against saurus then skeletons do. 1 saurus attack will kill 0.37 skeletons and 0.25 ghouls, so you might want to go in that direction. Their poison attacks are also better when faced with stegadons.

One sneaky trick you might want to try is the congo line. If your troops are in a long line then those killy units of saurus can be easily tarpitted. It may not be seen as fair play, but I don't see how watching your troops be slaughtered is fair either.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 19:41
so make them 5 wide and allow them to get ranks still? or are you saying make them like 1 wide or 2 wide no ranks but only get like 1 or 2 saurus' in combat per round.and wow that does seem cheap but as i've never heard of it or seen it i'm very curious.

Malorian
06-04-2009, 19:46
Only 1 wide. Since your base is smaller than his only 2 of his models will get to attack (4 if spears). Sure you'll lose ranks but it's better to lose models from crumbling than from kills and crumbling.

This is also a nasty tactic for unbreakable units that are used as tarpits.

Actually you could just do this with zombies. Raise them, put them in a line, and off you go.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 20:24
ok with the thoughts you've given me i decided to make a few changes to the list any thoughts on the revised list are appreciated.

Count Mannfred with Skull staff and Book of Arkhan riding Barded Nightmare (in Blood knights)

Vampire Lord lvl 3 magic upgrade w/Balefire lance and Infinite hatred,along w/ Cadaverous cuirass ,Dread knight, Red Fury, (In Blood Knights )

Vampire BSB w/ Dread Knight, summon ghouls and the drakenhoff banner (in Blood Knights)

Vampire w/ Summon ghouls , Dark acolyte , flayed hauberk and Black periapt (in ghouls)

Vampire w/ walachs bloody Hauberk,Dark acolyte,and Lord of the dead (in skellys)

Vampire w/ Staff of damnation,talisman of Lycni,dark acolyte and summon ghouls.On foot move 9 floating behind ghouls/other stuff to get the most out of the staff.

10x Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast

10x Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast

10x Skellys w/ spears.

10x Skellys w/ spears

3x Fell bats (added these to make the most of Mannfred as he can raise past start)

5x Blood Knights w/ Champ and SB champ has biting blade and SB carries the flag of Blood Keep

1x Varghulf

1x Varghulf

Total=2997

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 20:59
Only 1 wide. Since your base is smaller than his only 2 of his models will get to attack (4 if spears). Sure you'll lose ranks but it's better to lose models from crumbling than from kills and crumbling.

This is also a nasty tactic for unbreakable units that are used as tarpits.

Actually you could just do this with zombies. Raise them, put them in a line, and off you go.


That seems like the cheesiest thing ever but imma consider it lol

Classical Mushroom
06-04-2009, 21:54
ok with the thoughts you've given me i decided to make a few changes to the list any thoughts on the revised list are appreciated.

Count Mannfred with Skull staff and Book of Arkhan riding Barded Nightmare (in Blood knights)

Vampire Lord lvl 3 magic upgrade w/ dreadlance,Dread knight, Red Fury, (In Blood Knights )

Vampire BSB w/ Dread Knight, summon ghouls and the drakenhoff banner (in Blood Knights)

Vampire w/ Summon ghouls , Dark acolyte , flayed hauberk and Black periapt (in ghouls)

Vampire w/ walachs bloody Hauberk,Dark acolyte,and Lord of the dead (in skellys)

Vampire w/ Staff of damnation,talisman of Lycni,dark acolyte and summon ghouls.On foot move 9 floating behind ghouls/other stuff to get the most out of the staff.

10x Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast

10x Crypt Ghouls w/ Ghast

10x Skellys w/ spears.

10x Skellys w/ spears

3x Fell bats (added these to make the most of Mannfred as he can raise past start)

5x Blood Knights w/ Champ and SB champ has biting blade and SB carries the flag of Blood Keep

1x Varghulf

1x Varghulf

Total=2998


I've always found The Balefire Spike and Infinite Hatred works just as well if not better than Dreadlance, and Flaming will help with all the Regen units that pop up. Also it saves you 25pts for some protection i might recommend The Cadaverous Cuirass and make him the army general as Mannfred lacks armor and isn't immune to KB and poison.

Ravenousone2
06-04-2009, 22:13
made the changes Balefire and Infinite hatred,along w/ Cadaverous cuirass now on the Lord. although i kept the General Mannfred since he has 5 wounds and that unit should always be striking 1st.I know its actually better to have the lord as my general now...just mannfred's model is sooo bad@$$.

Ravenousone2
07-04-2009, 00:59
Just a bump to see if anyone else has any advice for something i may have overlooked

Ravenousone2
10-04-2009, 00:39
bump for same reason as stated above