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WightKing
10-04-2009, 15:45
as we know BSB must be in combat line in order to give a +1 toCR.
What about any effects due to magic banner?
are they applied only if he is in combat or not?

danny-d-b
10-04-2009, 16:23
as we know BSB must be in combat line in order to give a +1 toCR.
What about any effects due to magic banner?
are they applied only if he is in combat or not?

deapend on the banner

which banner are you on about?

Neferazo
10-04-2009, 17:34
I think that the banner has to be placed in the front row to have any effect on the combat. Weither or not it has to in the actual combat, I do not know.

stripsteak
10-04-2009, 18:10
as we know BSB must be in combat line in order to give a +1 toCR.
What about any effects due to magic banner?
are they applied only if he is in combat or not?

the rules for the BSB for CR on pg 82. he can be in either the front rank or fighting in the combat. he doesn't have to be in combat

the rules for magic items and when they apply are on pg 120

Nurgling Chieftain
10-04-2009, 18:18
It would be pretty sad if a magic banner which fires magic missiles could only be used in close combat. :p

Braad
10-04-2009, 19:42
AFAIK a battle standard banner, both +1CR, re-rolls and magic features can only be used if:
1- the character is in the front row
2- the character is in a fighting rank

The latter, because if a unit is flanked, and the character is not in a figting position, you are allowed to move him in your next movement phase to get him in a fighting spot.

knightime98
11-04-2009, 08:31
Braad is spot on. There is one exception to the rules as far as BSB's are concerned and that is with Skaven. Skaven CAN be in the rear and refuse challenges and STILL get ALL the benefits the BSB provides.
The magic banner a BSB has is effective so long as 1 and/or 2 above posted by Braad is true. Just note that if the BSB is in the front rank and NOT fighting he still gives the benefits. This can happen by caddy corner to caddy corner charges and the like.

Necromancy Black
11-04-2009, 08:37
Braad is spot on. There is one exception to the rules as far as BSB's are concerned and that is with Skaven. Skaven CAN be in the rear and refuse challenges and STILL get ALL the benefits the BSB provides.


And Slann can be in the second rank and still get all the BSB benefits.

Dvnjhn
11-04-2009, 09:01
Okay - I fight elves alot with my woc.

There BSB refuses challenges quite alot. Does this mean they lose the bonus that goes with the BSB?.

Necromancy Black
11-04-2009, 09:09
You mean they refuse a challenge and you choose the BSB to move out of the fighting front rank, correct?

Either way, it clearly states that yes, they would lose the BSB bonus and possibly any additional bonus from having a magic banner.

knightime98
12-04-2009, 09:12
Retort to Slann: Only if the Slann is in a unit of Temple Guard ONLY.. If in saurus warriors unit he is in the front now. Which is why they give him the discipline immune to mundane weapons and/or higher ward save.. Something like that as an option.

Retort to Refusing challenge: Absolutely, if the BSB refuses.. He is then cowering in the back. If this happens then;
1) BSB Does not give +1 to combat res.. (for being the bsb)
2) All benefits of magic banner he is carrying are lost
3) No re-rolls for break test are allowed for ANY ONE on that player's side.

Necromancy Black
12-04-2009, 09:52
Counter-retort: That's not what is says. Being with Temple Guard sends him to the secodn rank, rule does say he must be in both a TG unit and the second rank for taht part of the rule to kick in.

But don't continue it here, there's already a topic for this.

However, does it actually say that magic banners don't work from the back? I only find reference to the character not doing anything and the BSB not giving combat bonus'

WightKing
13-04-2009, 10:27
AFAIK a battle standard banner, both +1CR, re-rolls and magic features can only be used if:
1- the character is in the front row
2- the character is in a fighting rank

The latter, because if a unit is flanked, and the character is not in a figting position, you are allowed to move him in your next movement phase to get him in a fighting spot.


AFAIK a battle standard banner, both +1CR, re-rolls and magic features can only be used if:
1- the character is in the front row
2- the character is in a fighting rank

The latter, because if a unit is flanked, and the character is not in a figting position, you are allowed to move him in your next movement phase to get him in a fighting spot.

or is it :1-the ch/ter is in the front rank (because rows are vertical and he is sure in one of them-and possibly not in combat)
:2-the ch/ter is in a fighting row(that covers flank charges that may find the bsb out of the fighting row(flank) for the moment-requiring you to move him in your next move phase to the fighting row(flank) as you say.

it is really bizzare because if it is as you say then if a unit is flanked then ALL
ranks are "fighting ranks" but only 1 row is "fighting row"

the way i see it is that the bsb must be actually in the current fighting line of models ,weather he is in base to base contact himself or not .
thats why they mention that he must be in combat.

as for any banner effects i think that they always take effect appart from refusing a chalenge as some give buffs(rege-rank bonuses -ward saves etc)
just immaging a unit with a griifon st/rd regaining it's rank bonus after flanked by an enemy that suffered casualties and in u.s 4.The bsb out of combat line for the whole combat but in the front rank.it is very punnishing not to allow the unit to receive the effects of the banner as long they get the rank bonus back .


thanks for your time.

stripsteak
13-04-2009, 15:58
pg 73
characters magic items only work when they are in the front rank, or fighting in combat.

pg 82
the BSB grants +1 CR when in the front rank, or engaged in combat that round.

WightKing
14-04-2009, 08:58
pg 73
characters magic items only work when they are in the front rank, or fighting in combat.

Pg 82
the bsb grants +1 cr when in the front rank, or engaged in combat that round.


many many thanks

popisdead
05-05-2009, 19:44
I think that the banner has to be placed in the front row to have any effect on the combat. Weither or not it has to in the actual combat, I do not know.


Yes nearly always must be in the front row to work.

nosferatu1001
05-05-2009, 22:03
Popisdead - pretty much threadomancy in order to add nothing to a thread that had already been resolved? ;)