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Max_Killfactor
14-04-2009, 18:28
Just curious what the general consensus is about the Dark Eldar release date.

I've heard rumors from as early as fall 2009 to mid 2010.

If the show "Who Wants to be A Millionaire" taught me anything, it's that for some reason, if you poll the audience, they are almost always right.
So... BLAM. Let's do this.

SPYDER68
14-04-2009, 18:29
GW put them in the closet beside squats to try to forget about them while they release imperial armies.

Ubermensch Commander
14-04-2009, 18:34
Some time before/during/just after Ragnarok!
Honestly? 2010-2011. Probably 2011. I HOPE they come out sooner, but we have been told "soon" for so long, I do not expect much.
Besides...its still fun to kill Chaos Marines or Guard by 4th turn with my Dark Eldar.
Mind you...I have been on the receiving end of that as well!
heh new Orks are...interesting to fight against. 1 horrible loss, 1 amazing victory is my tally so far.
anyway got any new solid info on the codex or its contents?
Some new pics would be amazing. *mutters under breath* cmon new talos and Raider models!*.............because the pics of it in the 5th edition book is awesome.

Raibaru
14-04-2009, 18:39
I'm waiting (not so) patiently for the rerelease of Dark Eldar. Not so much for the rules, but more for updated fluff. They really didn't do a good job identifying the Dark Eldar and I want to see what direction they take them.

Vaktathi
14-04-2009, 18:40
If I had to hazard a guess, 1st half of 2010.

We've seen some CAD work of new weapons sculpts and the newer art in the 5E rulebook has them look a little different than their 3E artwork.

I'd say they are in the works for sure, but it may be a while before they are released, but not never either.

Max_Killfactor
14-04-2009, 18:41
I'm waiting (not so) patiently for the rerelease of Dark Eldar. Not so much for the rules, but more for updated fluff. They really didn't do a good job identifying the Dark Eldar and I want to see what direction they take them.

Yeah I agree. I want new models and background far more than I want new rules. The revised codex has held up pretty well considering it's age.

The Anarchist
14-04-2009, 18:50
GW put them in the closet beside squats to try to forget about them while they release imperial armies.

thankfully i don't think this will be the case. squats jsut instantly got vapourised and never mentioned since. DE still in the rule book, and the new art work gives me some small measure of hope :D even if its not in the near furture

Tarquinn
14-04-2009, 18:55
January 2011.

Cane
14-04-2009, 18:56
With Dark Eldar getting seemingly less attention than the Sisters of Battle, I wouldn't be too surprised to see DE go the way of the Squats. I voted Never.

Templar Ben
14-04-2009, 20:03
I voted just before never. I don't think DE will be dropped even though that would be the smart move.

GW should redo the Dark Eldar just after the other armies which will see a greater return on the investment. Dark Eldar at this point would almost be a new race. They need to have their rules brought in line with 5th edition and they need to have almost the entire line redesigned.

IM(never)HO, they should do a DE reboot and combine them with Corsair Eldar. I would call the book Eldar Raiders and have them focus on raids and drop the Hellraiser references. That would keep them from being Emo or a farce. They are just pirates that happen to use the captured as slaves and sacrifices instead of ransoming them back. From an in game perspective there is no difference.

Speaking of raiders/pirates: A big harry frog HooYah! ;)

I wouldn't mind if the book covered all types of raiders, Xeno, Chaos, Human, but that is too many sprues. Keep it as Eldar raiders and use the Craftworld as a base so fewer sprues are needed to add new heads, arms, and weapons.

IrishDelinquent
14-04-2009, 20:24
They won't be out for a while. GW is focussed on BoC, TK, Planetstrike, and then hopefully DE. I'll be fine just as long as DE come out before those damn Space Wolves.

holmcross
14-04-2009, 20:28
Whenever GW wants to make money hand over fist.

The_Outsider
14-04-2009, 21:27
As a DE player, the sadist in me says early 1010, however the reasonable part of me says never.

RampagingRavener
14-04-2009, 21:41
Early 1010, I reckon. I'm pretty sure that GW won't drop the Dark Eldar; if they were planning on doing so, I get the feeling that they simply wouldn't have mentioned them in the 5th edition rulebook and quietly phased them out from there.

The new codex can't come soon enough, though.

Hlokk
14-04-2009, 21:47
Im going to say never.

DE were, to my mind, a blatant rush job to soften the transition from 2nd to 3rd edition by saying "look, shiney new stuff".

If GW had wanted to release the Dark Eldar again, they would have done so already, they've had God knows how long to do it.

The_Outsider
14-04-2009, 22:00
If GW had wanted to release the Dark Eldar again, they would have done so already, they've had God knows how long to do it.

That logic easily applies to both orks and eldar, they both took nearly a decade to update.

laudarkul
14-04-2009, 22:08
First quarter of 2010...This year seems full but it's about time for a new DE ...So 2010 for me means DE and DH/WH.

starlight
14-04-2009, 22:10
15th November 2010

The_Outsider
14-04-2009, 22:19
15th November 2010

I'd laugh if this proves to be true, then i'd realise my wallet would suddenly be empty.

starlight
14-04-2009, 23:00
Lots of time to save up. :p

Warforger
14-04-2009, 23:16
thankfully i don't think this will be the case. squats jsut instantly got vapourised and never mentioned since. DE still in the rule book, and the new art work gives me some small measure of hope :D even if its not in the near furture

No no, GW released a letter explaining the real reason Squats were dropped, it was because they made them look like a joke, for reference, see Squat bikers :evilgrin:

DE are not a joke, unless you think that those hair does make the designers ashamed :rolleyes:

We haven't had any updates for about years now, only update being that there being pushed back. I'd say mid-late 2010.

Max_Killfactor
14-04-2009, 23:21
Darn, I wish the OP had made an option for "Later than 2nd Quarter of 2010"

I feel like a decent amount of the "Never" votes were just for people that didn't think they would be out within a year.

Oh well.

I'm pretty optimistic. I think they will be out either late this year or early next year.

jsullivanlaw
14-04-2009, 23:26
They will be released after a space marine codex comes out for every chapter ever mentioned in the fluff.

weirdo2590
14-04-2009, 23:29
I thought general consesus with deldar sources was that they're the next 40k release after space wolves? Who in turn were after guard?

I mean reliable gw staffies have said to me that the models are all done they're just waiting for an appropriate release date.

Denise
14-04-2009, 23:49
It just seems "appropriate" at this point for them to be completely canceled.

weirdo2590
14-04-2009, 23:56
It just seems "appropriate" at this point for them to be completely canceled.

Any reason for that? They're still a much loved army by a small but very loyal fan base. Not to mention any race that gets a redo is instant money for them, especialy one with a radicaly different play style to other races, this tends to attract the touranment gamers who want an army people don't know how to counter. On top of this, a wide spec of new models required means huge purchases from existing player base as well as new potential customers. And from a fluff point of view they've gotten more attention now, in a book no less (screw that they wre beaten by marines, i ignore that) and with beautiful artwork and concept designs in the 5th ed rulebook, than they've had since their release.

Mind elaborationg on how it would be "apropirate"?

druchii lord narakh
15-04-2009, 00:03
gw needs to screw all armies except spacewolves and dark eldar. This includes coming out with expantions like planet strike. The dark eldar and space wolves need new armies first. Guard were fine and necrons are still amazing so stow all the wining about necs being weak there frigin awsome. Dark eldar, dark eldar, dark eldar, dark eldar, dark eldar!!!!!!!!

weirdo2590
15-04-2009, 00:05
Mind sizing that down before a Mod takes offence? This purely for your own sake here.

Col. Tartleton
15-04-2009, 00:06
Way I see it, its gonna be about a year from now. SW and Necrons will come first.

But when they come they will be totally different to the point they'll effectively be a new race. If they aren't I'm going to bash them for not only being really really broken, I'm going to say they have **** for fluff.

The Dark Eldar as is are stupid. I hate the flamboyant and spiky Eldar that are the Dark Eldar. I can't understand why their technology is so much worse and why they are so blatantly and hollowly evil.

They should be totally inhuman (mentally as opposed to the inhuman physically nids) They should have shuriken weapons and similar art styles to the craftworlds. They be mostly bikers or raider troops. They should have nothing to do with chaos. They should be a society entirely dedicated to the darker paths of khaine. They should have aspect troop equivalents that walk a path closer to evil. A scourges, incubi, witches, what have you. They wouldn't be as good as craftworld aspects because they aren't as focused, but they'd be super elite troops. Get rid of all the weird torture for souls stuff.

Their main goal should be to have fun. When your a race of brutal super stylized soldiers, fun is metaphorically "raping" entire planets. Cut out the BDSM too. No more kinky kinky. Lets insert Killy Killy go home and get drunk off good wine and then get back to killy killy. Perhaps a bit more sanity. I have no problem with them wearing human skin on their helmets and all that, they should be barbaric, but it was after the person died, torture is not the angle they should have leave that for noise marines and mad doks.

weirdo2590
15-04-2009, 00:15
So want the to be khornate slanneshi craftworld eldar?

Sure why not, while we're at it lets totaly change the point of every other army, clearly necrons are inteded to be a super duper sized horde of souless robots with weak but masses guns backed up by uber doom lord of ultimate killy death in a retinue of similar models. Or chaos? Yeah they're out for whats good for mankind as the emperor clearly is decieving them so they're trying to bring em back to the light.
[/rant]

When games workshop (or anyone for that matter) design a race they pick a path and stick to it. Torture, slave raiding and soul eating are what characterise the army (look at dawn of war or the few and far between examples of cannon fiction for them). Games workshop have never shifted the focus of an entire army before, models and units come and go but the overall themes remain constant.

Also why shouldnt they take the angle of torture? Neither of the two examples you listed explicity use it, its mostly unique to the Deldar

Also (#2) sorry for sounding like a Jerk at the top of my post.

Denise
15-04-2009, 00:23
Any reason for that? They're still a much loved army by a small but very loyal fan base. Not to mention any race that gets a redo is instant money for them, especialy one with a radicaly different play style to other races, this tends to attract the touranment gamers who want an army people don't know how to counter. On top of this, a wide spec of new models required means huge purchases from existing player base as well as new potential customers. And from a fluff point of view they've gotten more attention now, in a book no less (screw that they wre beaten by marines, i ignore that) and with beautiful artwork and concept designs in the 5th ed rulebook, than they've had since their release.

Mind elaborationg on how it would be "apropirate"?



By appropriate I meant that they have postponed the freaking book so many times that by now it just seems like they are bound to either release a terrible book or just not release it at all.

I anticipate using the current book for a good while more...

In other words, I was being pessimistic.

RampagingRavener
15-04-2009, 01:22
Cut out the BDSM too. No more kinky kinky.

Go read through the Dark Eldar codex. Tell me if you can find one overt reference to the Dark Eldar being somehow obsessed with sex, sado-masochistic or not.

No, really, go on. I'll wait. Because guess what? There isn't one. It states that they're obsessed with torture, with the infliction of pain, but no sexual element is implied as a whole for the race. The only Dark Eldar who get something out of being hurt themselves are the Grotesques, a relatively minor group who can't be seen as representing their entire culture, and perhaps the Haemonculi. Words like "depraved" or "hedonistic" which have been used to describe the Dark Eldar, yes, do imply a sexual element...along with the myriad other elements of depravity and hedonism. I fail to see why the sexual element of that is what people obsess over. There is very little to imply the Dark Eldar are an entire race of kinky sex-perverts; at least to the extent where it dominates their culture as some people seem to think. And really, their outfits and equipment are no more 'bondage' than the super-tight bodygloves Death Cult Assassins wear, or the dominatrix-esque corset and high heels of the Sisters of Battle. I will grant, however, that the LOLSPIKES look is terribly outdated.

What you describe in the last paragraph pretty much is exactly what Dark Eldar are; obsessed with killing and maiming other races, then heading back to Commoragh to indulge in the spoils they've looted, before heading back out on another raid. The only thing is, they have to do so in order to secure fresh supplies of Souls to replenish their own as Slaanesh leeches away at them, as opposed to simply doing it for fun. If they're going to be compared to the practices of a Chaos god (and I should see fit to remind everyone, once again, that Dark Eldar as a whole do not worship Chaos) then I feel they're actually more in line with Khorne than Slaanesh.

starlight
15-04-2009, 01:39
I fail to see why the sexual element of that is what people obsess over.

Because most people in Western Society publicly vilify and revile (or ridicule and/or titter over if they're younger) the sexual aspects of life (moreso the fringe aspects), thus their pseudo-S&M imagery means (in the minds of the immature) the *bad* Dark Eldar must have a sexual component and it attracts attention... :p

druchii lord narakh
15-04-2009, 03:45
since were along the lines of it i would like to point out DARK ELDAR DO NOT WORSHIP SLANEESH! in the book all it states is that the dark eldar fear only one thing and thats she who thirsts.

read and look around for the facks that dark eldar are a race built on power. you only ever are anywhere and are anyone if you have power. nothing else matters. in the dark eldar city of cammorragh its all a bunch of clans, kabals, cults, and mobs fighting each other for power gain.

the dark eldar see themselves as the unrivaled rulers of the universe and see all else as underlings and playthings for them. the revel in that of causing pain and tourture. they devour the souls of others to fill a whole within there own soul that can never be trully filled. slaneesh does not seak out dark eldar much beacuse of this. dark eldar are also the masters and for most part cntrolers of the webway seeing as they live in it. they go on slave raides for a few things 1 is for the pure unhindered fun of slaughter, 2 is to capture slaves, 3 is probly them hopping that the raide will bring them closere to possesing more power in society, 4 is just to cause terror and discord omung the other races cause they can and will.:evilgrin:

imweasel
15-04-2009, 03:56
DE will be delayed for years. With all the delays on the second release, IG, yada, yada I will be suprised if it's only delayed for years.

starlight
15-04-2009, 03:56
Dark Eldar are the *I can do whatever I want and the only way you can stop me is to kill me.* poster-children of the 40K universe. :)


They are also (in their minds) the true inheritors of the Eldar way/mindset of old.

Templar Ben
15-04-2009, 04:04
No no, GW released a letter explaining the real reason Squats were dropped, it was because they made them look like a joke, for reference, see Squat bikers :evilgrin:

DE are not a joke, unless you think that those hair does make the designers ashamed :rolleyes:

We haven't had any updates for about years now, only update being that there being pushed back. I'd say mid-late 2010.

DE are not a joke so much as they are a blatant knock off of a bad 80's horror film.


Any reason for that? They're still a much loved army by a small but very loyal fan base. Not to mention any race that gets a redo is instant money for them, especialy one with a radicaly different play style to other races, this tends to attract the touranment gamers who want an army people don't know how to counter. On top of this, a wide spec of new models required means huge purchases from existing player base as well as new potential customers. And from a fluff point of view they've gotten more attention now, in a book no less (screw that they wre beaten by marines, i ignore that) and with beautiful artwork and concept designs in the 5th ed rulebook, than they've had since their release.

Mind elaborationg on how it would be "apropirate"?

That is silly. You have to look at which army will give the largest return for the investment. Not all armies are equal in potential revenue.


gw needs to screw all armies except spacewolves and dark eldar. This includes coming out with expantions like planet strike. The dark eldar and space wolves need new armies first. Guard were fine and necrons are still amazing so stow all the wining about necs being weak there frigin awsome. Dark eldar, dark eldar, dark eldar, dark eldar, dark eldar!!!!!!!!

At least you don't pretend that there is a good reason. That is nice.


Way I see it, its gonna be about a year from now. SW and Necrons will come first.

But when they come they will be totally different to the point they'll effectively be a new race. If they aren't I'm going to bash them for not only being really really broken, I'm going to say they have **** for fluff.

The Dark Eldar as is are stupid. I hate the flamboyant and spiky Eldar that are the Dark Eldar. I can't understand why their technology is so much worse and why they are so blatantly and hollowly evil.

They should be totally inhuman (mentally as opposed to the inhuman physically nids) They should have shuriken weapons and similar art styles to the craftworlds. They be mostly bikers or raider troops. They should have nothing to do with chaos. They should be a society entirely dedicated to the darker paths of khaine. They should have aspect troop equivalents that walk a path closer to evil. A scourges, incubi, witches, what have you. They wouldn't be as good as craftworld aspects because they aren't as focused, but they'd be super elite troops. Get rid of all the weird torture for souls stuff.

Their main goal should be to have fun. When your a race of brutal super stylized soldiers, fun is metaphorically "raping" entire planets. Cut out the BDSM too. No more kinky kinky. Lets insert Killy Killy go home and get drunk off good wine and then get back to killy killy. Perhaps a bit more sanity. I have no problem with them wearing human skin on their helmets and all that, they should be barbaric, but it was after the person died, torture is not the angle they should have leave that for noise marines and mad doks.

Rebooting the race would not be hard given how little is written now.


Because most people in Western Society publicly vilify and revile (or ridicule and/or titter over if they're younger) the sexual aspects of life (moreso the fringe aspects), thus their pseudo-S&M imagery means (in the minds of the immature) the *bad* Dark Eldar must have a sexual component and it attracts attention... :p

Well that and Hellraiser made such a strong connection.

StarshipBOb
15-04-2009, 04:42
As much of a fan I am of the Dark Eldar, and army diversification in general, I don't really see them coming out this year, or the next year.

The only ballot I could vote for was never.

Marshal Augustine
15-04-2009, 05:01
I think that they will be here later than when GW says that they will have them ready for. As simple as that.

Santiaghoul
15-04-2009, 05:28
There was a pod cast on the GW website with Jes Goodwin. He specifically said that he was working on the Dark Eldar miniatures. This was in late 2008 and he said that the army would take a year at the minimum. Assuming that the project does not get pushed back, I would think it would be late 2009 to mid 2010.

WorLord
15-04-2009, 06:09
I'd say Q4 2010. They might be ready sooner, but GW will still have to find space in the schedule around their next couple of fantasy armies, more stuff for LOTR, and a couple more SM books before they can release a non-imperial race.

Dranthar
15-04-2009, 06:26
The poll options are too optimistic so I went with the closest - 'Never'. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I'm going to guess mid-2011, since hell is due to freeze over some time next year.

dblaz3r
15-04-2009, 07:12
I'm thinking late next year, I'm a bit more optimistic than others :)

Lordsaradain
15-04-2009, 07:29
My guess is about the same time that chaos dwarves are re-released for fantasy. Prehaps abit earlier. :)

Brucopeloso
15-04-2009, 08:05
They will be released after a space marine codex comes out for every chapter ever mentioned in the fluff.

They will be released straight after codex: Ultramarines (6th ed) ;)

Just kidding, hope to see them released soon as rules are ok but background and models need to be canned and redone from scratch.

John117
15-04-2009, 11:08
Just curious what the general consensus is about the Dark Eldar release date.

I've heard rumors from as early as fall 2009 to mid 2010.

If the show "Who Wants to be A Millionaire" taught me anything, it's that for some reason, if you poll the audience, they are almost always right.
So... BLAM. Let's do this.

I don't realy mind when cos I don't care much for them. However, I'll be very annoyed if GW start shoving SM and other more popular armies into 6th edition before everything is in 5th. Infact, why not just call it a day at 5th. There's nothing wrong with 5th. I mean release new codex's if you HAVE to but leave the mini's alone.

ehlijen
15-04-2009, 11:35
I don't think they've forgotten the DE. It's just that every time they consider renewing them they have a look at the model range as to what needs fixing...and decide that to do the army justice they'd have to completely start from scratch (or close to it). Few of their models can stand next to their current releases and not look pretty poor in comparison.

So the cost of starting a completely new plastic range vs how many players they're likely to get. And that's not as many as you'd think and then that expectation is further dragged down by their current poor sales.

And once they recover from that depression, they decide to renew something less difficult (finance wise) first. Every single time. And they'll keep doing so :(

That's just my theory.

Templar Ben
15-04-2009, 11:38
I don't think they've forgotten the DE. It's just that every time they consider renewing them they have a look at the model range as to what needs fixing...and decide that to do the army justice they'd have to completely start from scratch (or close to it). Few of their models can stand next to their current releases and not look pretty poor in comparison.

So the cost of starting a completely new plastic range vs how many players they're likely to get. And that's not as many as you'd think and then that expectation is further dragged down by their current poor sales.

And once they recover from that depression, they decide to renew something less difficult (finance wise) first. Every single time. And they'll keep doing so :(

That's just my theory.

That would be the fiscally responsible choice so it makes sense.

Captain Micha
15-04-2009, 12:02
I'm going to say never, as it seems they are always being pushed away "till we can do them right".

They aren't an army anymore, but Gw doesn't want to tell you that yet.

sabreu
15-04-2009, 13:02
I voted never - I really want to see an Codex: Eldar Raiders where the dark Eldar become stylised as a single unit, ala Harlequins. I think that would work alot better and would have a stronger, more flexible theme!

Tymell
15-04-2009, 13:21
In all honesty, I expect sometime next year.

Yes, it keeps getting put back, and you could take the pessimistic line of never. But there -are- signs of them, and we have had little cryptic hints from some good sources on here. It's been very slow progress, but it does honestly feel like it's going somewhere now, slowly but surely.

Looking at the current general rumours, we've got Planetstrike for the 3rd quarter of 2009, and I would guess either Space Wolves or Tyranids in the 4th, then the other at the start of next year. Since the Necron rumours seem to have been put down for now, I'd guess we'd be seeing Dark Eldar sometime next year.

If you want something that is being left indefinitely, see Chaos Dwarves for Fantasy. That is something that's not likely to see the light of day in the foreseeable future. Dark Eldar we at least have some indications of.

Captain Micha
15-04-2009, 13:22
We crons are never getting an update.

Gw likes raping us non boxed set metal mini guys too much.

SylverClaw
15-04-2009, 13:27
And once they recover from that depression, they decide to renew something less difficult (finance wise) first. Every single time. And they'll keep doing so :(.

Words out of my mouth.

I voted never; for that reason. Personally I think they've been squatted for the long haul.

And... consider this; Demons are the new Dark Eldar? They are a pretty raidy style army, plus from a business point of view they neatly support the CSM line and can be used in both 40k and fantasy.

I think the Tau will be squatted too, along with Inquisition, but that's just wild speculation and a completely different topic.

sabreu
15-04-2009, 14:47
We crons are never getting an update.

Gw likes raping us non boxed set metal mini guys too much.

Sad thing really. Necrons have a wider berth for expansion, fluffwise and rules wise, unlike the Dark Eldar. (Seriously, how do you take the power of a single city-state seriously amongst a galaxy at war?)

edward3h
15-04-2009, 15:11
I answered 'Never' because I'm hopeful. I think Dark Eldar were a worse mistake than Squats.

cool0001
15-04-2009, 15:19
Would GW give up on them and give them to forgeworld for an Imperial Armour book??

evilsponge
15-04-2009, 16:44
Dark Eldar have become the Duke Nukem Forever of 40k. Every year we here from GW that "they're coming" and every year we're disappointed. I for one will believe it when I see them on store shelves before I believe another "they're coming" speech from Jervis.

Tymell
15-04-2009, 18:42
Sad thing really. Necrons have a wider berth for expansion, fluffwise and rules wise, unlike the Dark Eldar. (Seriously, how do you take the power of a single city-state seriously amongst a galaxy at war?)

This has been explained at least once (and probably numerous other times) before. There are threads devoted to the great potential of the Dark Eldar race, I suggest doing a quick search for them.

John117
15-04-2009, 20:36
RIGHT Can I please just get this off my chest. Allot of people are saying that it's financialy bad and that they'll make less monet etc. And I agree. However. When you are making **** loads of profit of everything you sell, I think you can bloody well pull your finger out and spend some of that money making your products better. I'm sick of paying out the nose as it is. At least spend some of the moeny on something will make your customers happy. Honestly. Why don't you actualy take a small step towards giving yourself a better reputation/relationship with your existing customers instead of screwing them over every 2 seconds. And also, if you are like me a customer. Stop suporting them. You can buy warhammer 40k and whammer fantasy and warhammer lots and paints etc with a 25% discount of "gifts for geeks.com" and theres other websites to get it from too. So save yourself some cash, like I do, and stop supporting a company that frankly don't seem to care.

Logarithm Udgaur
15-04-2009, 20:40
DE are not a joke, unless you think that those hair does make the designers ashamed.

Have you seen the plastic Demonettes?

John117
15-04-2009, 20:41
Sorry but I had to say that, It's been bugging me for ages.

SPYDER68
15-04-2009, 21:01
RIGHT Can I please just get this off my chest. Allot of people are saying that it's financialy bad and that they'll make less monet etc. And I agree. However. When you are making **** loads of profit of everything you sell, I think you can bloody well pull your finger out and spend some of that money making your products better. I'm sick of paying out the nose as it is. At least spend some of the moeny on something will make your customers happy. Honestly. Why don't you actualy take a small step towards giving yourself a better reputation/relationship with your existing customers instead of screwing them over every 2 seconds. And also, if you are like me a customer. Stop suporting them. You can buy warhammer 40k and whammer fantasy and warhammer lots and paints etc with a 25% discount of "gifts for geeks.com" and theres other websites to get it from too. So save yourself some cash, like I do, and stop supporting a company that frankly don't seem to care.

All the stores that sell warhammer and warhammer 40k are getting it from GW in which return you are also...

On top of that, the price local shops pay is around 51% of what retail is..

So local shops.. online stores for discounts etc.. have a 49% markdown themselves on buying it, then mark it up to suggested retail.. then try to make you feel better bye saying 10-30% off...

Only way GW wont make money is if everyone quits playing there games.. which isnt going to happen.

starlight
15-04-2009, 21:06
The Trade discount (what FLGS pay) is 40% off retail. Out of that 40% (or less if they discount) they have to pay all their expenses (rent, wages, etc...).


Currently GW is having difficulty selling enough to cover their costs as shown in their annual reports...

Templar Ben
15-04-2009, 21:39
Not sure why you had a triple post.


RIGHT Can I please just get this off my chest.

It is a forum.


Allot of people are saying that it's financialy bad and that they'll make less monet etc. And I agree.

Good. Glad you see that.


However. When you are making **** loads of profit of everything you sell, I think you can bloody well pull your finger out and spend some of that money making your products better.

Well profit is not the same across everything. Think of it this way. Each sprue has to cover the few cents for plastic and the 50 K from the mold itself. That means if they sell 1000 sprues they are 50 each and if they sell 50K they are 1 each. See how important volume is? That is a big reason that other lines are more fiscally responsible to update first.


I'm sick of paying out the nose as it is. At least spend some of the moeny on something will make your customers happy. Honestly.

You really think that having DE would make a sizable portion of the customers happy? Have you any idea what percentage of the 40K community plays SM, CSM, and IG? I am not saying DE players don't matter but they are such a small niche they have less effect on sales then weather.


Why don't you actualy take a small step towards giving yourself a better reputation/relationship with your existing customers instead of screwing them over every 2 seconds.

So every 2 seconds they screw over DE players? Perhaps you can give examples. Most people play SM. The second largest army is CSM. That is where the audience is.

It is like people that complain that Hollywood puts out action movies with lots of explosions. That is what people pay for so that is what they get. It is not that GW is trying to make you cry. There is just not really a market there to invest in. That is more the case in these financial times.


And also, if you are like me a customer. Stop suporting them. You can buy warhammer 40k and whammer fantasy and warhammer lots and paints etc with a 25% discount of "gifts for geeks.com" and theres other websites to get it from too. So save yourself some cash, like I do, and stop supporting a company that frankly don't seem to care.

Perhaps you can explain how buying the product from a different source is not supporting them.

sabreu
15-04-2009, 21:57
This has been explained at least once (and probably numerous other times) before. There are threads devoted to the great potential of the Dark Eldar race, I suggest doing a quick search for them.


Please, don't get me wrong. I love Eldar almost as much as I love Orks. Currently though, there just isn't alot of official background for the Dark Eldar! I mean, as an amateur rule writer and general monger of fun, I wholly support the expansions of both armies. I was just merely pointing out, that currently, as-is, Necrons have a greater berth.

Necrons: All over, galaxy wide menace waking up. Simply saying hey, these are some of their minions that appear to be awakening and we just never documented them before is a valid excuse!

Dark Eldar (from commorragh, as is): We are raiding for slaves! And um, the usual stuff...



Most people play SM. The second largest army is CSM. That is where the audience is.

As a delegate of the Xeno punching bag association, I dare tell you sir without us all those SM and CSM would quickly tire of the yawnfest that would ensue!

John117
15-04-2009, 22:01
O.k. let me rephrase, I was a little caught up in the moment so to speak. Here's my point.

-Games Workshop make Massive profit. That is undeniable.
-I think it would be nice if they spent that on making there products better (i.e. re-releasing DE)
-However they seem to like to re-release SM and stuff like becasue obviously they make more money from it.
-Seems kinda greedy, they are obviously thinking about maximising their already huge profits instead of doing something for their customers.
-I encorage you to look at similar products like Airfix/Academy/Revel etc. They are allot cheaper (if a little less detailed).

John117
15-04-2009, 22:04
Are there people who seriously don't think Games Workshop is making massive profit. Honestly, not just justifying there spending, they honestly think that?

Tymell
15-04-2009, 22:04
Please, don't get me wrong. I love Eldar almost as much as I love Orks. Currently though, there just isn't alot of official background for the Dark Eldar! I mean, as an amateur rule writer and general monger of fun, I wholly support the expansions of both armies. I was just merely pointing out, that currently, as-is, Necrons have a greater berth.

Necrons: All over, galaxy wide menace waking up. Simply saying hey, these are some of their minions that appear to be awakening and we just never documented them before is a valid excuse!

Dark Eldar (from commorragh, as is): We are raiding for slaves! And um, the usual stuff...

Oh I quite agree as things stand the background isn't too great. But it's got major potential. That's what I think it's worth looking up in other threads (and that wasn't meant as a sarcastic comment or anything either, I really think there's some interesting stuff worth seeking out in those threads :))


O.k. let me rephrase, I was a little caught up in the moment so to speak. Here's my point.

-Games Workshop make Massive profit. That is undeniable.
-I think it would be nice if they spent that on making there products better (i.e. re-releasing DE)
-However they seem to like to re-release SM and stuff like becasue obviously they make more money from it.
-Seems kinda greedy, they are obviously thinking about maximising their already huge profits instead of doing something for their customers.
-I encorage you to look at similar products like Airfix/Academy/Revel etc. They are allot cheaper (if a little less detailed).

As much as I might like to get involved myself, can I respectfully suggest all folks involved (i.e. not just the user I'm quoting) keep discussion of GW's profits and so on elsewhere, since as it is this isn't really related directly to this thread?

John117
15-04-2009, 22:07
You do know they legaly have to publish their financial statements on the internet?

Templar Ben
15-04-2009, 22:08
As a delegate of the Xeno punching bag association, I dare tell you sir without us all those SM and CSM would quickly tire of the yawnfest that would ensue!

I am not saying that they should drop all Xeno. I am just saying that there are business realities to be considered. At this point adding a new race could be better than a reboot of DE given the baggage there.


O.k. let me rephrase, I was a little caught up in the moment so to speak. Here's my point.

-Games Workshop make Massive profit. That is undeniable.
-I think it would be nice if they spent that on making there products better (i.e. re-releasing DE)
-However they seem to like to re-release SM and stuff like becasue obviously they make more money from it.
-Seems kinda greedy, they are obviously thinking about maximising their already huge profits instead of doing something for their customers.
-I encorage you to look at similar products like Airfix/Academy/Revel etc. They are allot cheaper (if a little less detailed).

Actually it is deniable. They have a massive gross margin. That is line 3 or so. Drop down to line 50 (okay I am making these numbers up and I don't feel like pulling up their financials) and you will see the actual profit is not high. In fact they didn't turn a profit at all for quite some time.

I never said GW was not over priced or that GW can't do things better. I am just explaining that GW has to consider what will give the biggest return for their investment. They are a public company so they have a duty to do what is best for the company.

monopeludo
15-04-2009, 22:14
DE can will sell great if they are properly redone and GW gives them some marketing love.
I don't play DE but if GW decides to drop them I'd be very sad. The more xeno races the better.

John117
15-04-2009, 22:15
O.k. I'm done after this one!

Continuing operations
Six months to
30 November
2008 Restated
Six months to
2 December
2007
A thick, black line.
Revenue £61.2m £53.9m
Operating profit - pre-exceptional and pre-royalties receivable £3.3m £0.5m
Royalties receivable £0.5m £0.7m
Operating profit - pre-exceptional £3.8m £1.2m
Exceptional items - cost reduction programme £nil £(0.6)m
Operating profit £3.8m £0.6m
Profit/(loss) before tax £3.1m £(0.1)m
Basic earnings/(loss) per share 4.9p (0.4)p

Thats the half year reprt Profit has gone from -0.1 to 3.1 seems like a big increase to me! Anyway enough this, it doesn't belong in this thread. Bottome line is the stuff we buy IS too expensive.

sabreu
15-04-2009, 22:23
Oh I quite agree as things stand the background isn't too great. But it's got major potential. That's what I think it's worth looking up in other threads (and that wasn't meant as a sarcastic comment or anything either, I really think there's some interesting stuff worth seeking out in those threads :))

Agreed! I think I misunderstood you a bit though via net speak. :D If I can find some of those threads I'll definitely check them out. Got nothing better to do at work as is... :angel:



I am not saying that they should drop all Xeno. I am just saying that there are business realities to be considered. At this point adding a new race could be better than a reboot of DE given the baggage there.

Ah, I was just trying to get a little chuckle was all! :p You actually make good points and all.

the1stpip
15-04-2009, 22:25
Lets be honest, Dark Eldar are never going to be as popular as Space marines (without a new PR agent).

But there are many people out there who would love a new Dark Eldar army (I'm sure Templar Ben has a serious issue with them, as this is not his first post spouting 'drop them').

And, if the xenos are not supported, you may as well fight Chaos Marines vs Marines and forget about the other races.

And no, it would not be better to redo a new race, it would tak even more work, and would be no guarantee of success. Not too mention the amount of people who are going to be ticked off by their favourite race being dropped.

They ARE being re-done (how many times do we have to state this). Get over your hatred of them, and deal with it.

Cheeko
15-04-2009, 22:26
just to put my 2 cents across the point about profit i think that when the delder do finally do come out they will be a massive!!!! they will certainly make a good bit of money out of me but goin to the original question one of my local gw staff said early 2010!! :(

The_Outsider
15-04-2009, 22:47
And, if the xenos are not supported, you may as well fight Chaos Marines vs Marines and forget about the other races.



If it wasn't for Jes and more recently Phil the game literally would be fluff marines versus crap xenos.

Col. Tartleton
15-04-2009, 23:06
Go read through the Dark Eldar codex. Tell me if you can find one overt reference to the Dark Eldar being somehow obsessed with sex, sado-masochistic or not.

No, really, go on. I'll wait. Because guess what? There isn't one. It states that they're obsessed with torture, with the infliction of pain, but no sexual element is implied as a whole for the race. The only Dark Eldar who get something out of being hurt themselves are the Grotesques, a relatively minor group who can't be seen as representing their entire culture, and perhaps the Haemonculi. Words like "depraved" or "hedonistic" which have been used to describe the Dark Eldar, yes, do imply a sexual element...along with the myriad other elements of depravity and hedonism. I fail to see why the sexual element of that is what people obsess over. There is very little to imply the Dark Eldar are an entire race of kinky sex-perverts; at least to the extent where it dominates their culture as some people seem to think. And really, their outfits and equipment are no more 'bondage' than the super-tight bodygloves Death Cult Assassins wear, or the dominatrix-esque corset and high heels of the Sisters of Battle. I will grant, however, that the LOLSPIKES look is terribly outdated.

What you describe in the last paragraph pretty much is exactly what Dark Eldar are; obsessed with killing and maiming other races, then heading back to Commoragh to indulge in the spoils they've looted, before heading back out on another raid. The only thing is, they have to do so in order to secure fresh supplies of Souls to replenish their own as Slaanesh leeches away at them, as opposed to simply doing it for fun. If they're going to be compared to the practices of a Chaos god (and I should see fit to remind everyone, once again, that Dark Eldar as a whole do not worship Chaos) then I feel they're actually more in line with Khorne than Slaanesh.

I'm not saying they are necessarily described that way in the codex, but its implied and touched on in other areas. I want them to be a bit more Eldarish though, Eldar as they should be. Garish outfits? Sure. But keep the aesthetics more in line with those of the Eldar as a race. I don't like this:

"We pillage and loot in order to steal souls to power our stuff and to appease the dark god who haunts us and stuff but we can't manufacture the soul stones that would protect us from them cause our way takes less effort. Oh, and we're spiky and nekked."

What the hell is a soul? Theoretical life energy? You torture people to enhance their soul energy, collect it, and use it to satiate your life force? Wouldn't it be easier to make soul hard drives like your kin? Why not use wraith bone? Is there a legitimate reason why they can't use wraith bone as well as the good guys? I don't buy "They're too distracted raping and murdering to learn the arts."

The Dark eldar should be redefined as a motley crue :) of pirates. I want them to be led by a Lord Corsair and made up of various renegades. C:CSM style... Well at the very least allow for a lot of variance. They should have eldar rangers, access to harlequins, some variant of the wraith troops, an aspect equivalent or two for elite slots, things that make them a bit more like CSM to space marines. Very similar but totally different. As is they're as different from eldar then ig are.

I'm not saying to change them per se. I'm just hoping to god they don't become Chaos Eldar. As such they should be a bit more Eldar and a little less chaotic. Change the focus from aspects to guardian equivalents, but make things a bit less... nothing? They should be killer rock stars in space. Eldar Noisemarines? No. Eldar Eldar? Hell yeah.

Ravenheart
15-04-2009, 23:09
When they are ready and fleshed out in every aspect; to be an integral part of the 40k universe.

TrojanWolf
16-04-2009, 02:03
There's an optimistic little voice in my head that says they'll be released near the end of this year. The voice made me vote 4th quarter '09. :D

The other voice tells me that I'll be waiting much longer than that. :cries:

The third voice says that regardless of when it happens, I'll be sitting at the painting table saying "I played Dark Eldar before they were cool."

starlight
16-04-2009, 02:09
No.
Define *much*.
Yes.
:)

TrojanWolf
16-04-2009, 02:18
Define *much*.

An extra year on top of my optimism, possibly more.

LastManOnEarth
16-04-2009, 03:44
I want them to be a bit more Eldarish though, Eldar as they should be. Garish outfits? Sure. But keep the aesthetics more in line with those of the Eldar as a race. I don't like this:

"We pillage and loot in order to steal souls to power our stuff and to appease the dark god who haunts us and stuff but we can't manufacture the soul stones that would protect us from them cause our way takes less effort. Oh, and we're spiky and nekked."

What the hell is a soul? Theoretical life energy? You torture people to enhance their soul energy, collect it, and use it to satiate your life force? Wouldn't it be easier to make soul hard drives like your kin? Why not use wraith bone? Is there a legitimate reason why they can't use wraith bone as well as the good guys? I don't buy "They're too distracted raping and murdering to learn the arts."

The Dark eldar should be redefined as a motley crue :) of pirates. I want them to be led by a Lord Corsair and made up of various renegades. C:CSM style... Well at the very least allow for a lot of variance. They should have eldar rangers, access to harlequins, some variant of the wraith troops, an aspect equivalent or two for elite slots, things that make them a bit more like CSM to space marines. Very similar but totally different. As is they're as different from eldar then ig are.


Dark Eldar ATM are not simply a flavor of (Craftworld) Eldar. They don't have wraithbone or soul gems because...they don't. They don't have Psychers. So while Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar are both descendant from the ur-Eldar, they diverged culturally, technologically and possibly genetically [again, the potential for psychers is either absent or actively selected against in a culture that lives in the webway] since the Fall. Note that the Harlequins and Exodites have also diverged and found their own solutions to the Slaneesh/soul problem, although not as drastically as the Dark Eldar have.

I don't have a problem if you'd like GW to recast the DE as a variation on the CW Eldar, just as I don't have a problem with those who want them to recast DE as Chaos-Eldar. I hope they do neither of these, and think that either would be a major deviation from the current essence of Dark Eldar.

If recent trends are any indication, GW is moving away from the proliferation of "alternate flavor" lists, such as the various non-vanilla SM chapters or Harlequins. I think they got bitten by too many side-lists to support, and you might argue that basic armies such as DE and Necrons have been the primary victims of all the sub-army codices of previous years. Instead, the trend seems to be toward more flexible basic codices which allow approximations of erstwhile splinter lists.

If this trend holds true, Dark Eldar would either be folded into Codex:Eldar, effectively eliminating them as a true army [and making C:E even more option-heavy (e.g. Harlequins)] OR, more likely, maintaining them as a separate entity from Eldar aside from the common origin from the pre-Fall Eldar. In this case they need a clearly distinct feel to the army and play-style and NOT simply a rehash of the Eldar list.

Personally, I think GW made a mistake in the Eldar fluff by keeping up the "Eldar Corsair/Pirate" idea, since this cuts into the Dark Eldar "niche" and adds unnecessary confusion between the two. The basic Craftworld fluff is rich enough already that phasing out the "pirate" aspect would be a small loss; the "piratical raider" element is much more fundamental to the Dark Eldar fluff [realistically, what else do they have beyond that and the torture/slavery element?]. As it is it makes it harder to revamp and clearly (re)define Dark Eldar, since that angle has been leaked over to the CW Eldar.

LMoE

Templar Ben
16-04-2009, 05:47
Lets be honest, Dark Eldar are never going to be as popular as Space marines (without a new PR agent).

I hope no one suggests that they would be.


But there are many people out there who would love a new Dark Eldar army (I'm sure Templar Ben has a serious issue with them, as this is not his first post spouting 'drop them').

I have issues with companies keeping failed lines for legacy reasons. It is not unique to GW but just because you had a product doesn't mean you must support that product forever.


And, if the xenos are not supported, you may as well fight Chaos Marines vs Marines and forget about the other races.

So it is a slippery slope? First they came for the squats and I said nothing?


And no, it would not be better to redo a new race, it would tak even more work, and would be no guarantee of success. Not too mention the amount of people who are going to be ticked off by their favourite race being dropped.

Better depends on your definition. It would stand a far greater chance of financial success. Would a DE release be as successful as Tau? Doubtful as Tau brought in so many new players that wanted an army not covered in skulls. I am sure some people were ticked off when New Coke was dropped but not that many.


They ARE being re-done (how many times do we have to state this). Get over your hatred of them, and deal with it.

I don't hate DE. It is a made up army represented by old models. What is there to hate? I do hate to see companies make bad decisions and that is opposition.


Personally, I think GW made a mistake in the Eldar fluff by keeping up the "Eldar Corsair/Pirate" idea, since this cuts into the Dark Eldar "niche" and adds unnecessary confusion between the two. The basic Craftworld fluff is rich enough already that phasing out the "pirate" aspect would be a small loss; the "piratical raider" element is much more fundamental to the Dark Eldar fluff [realistically, what else do they have beyond that and the torture/slavery element?]. As it is it makes it harder to revamp and clearly (re)define Dark Eldar, since that angle has been leaked over to the CW Eldar.

LMoE

Why is it phasing out the Pirates would be fine but phasing out DE would not. As I said an Eldar raider book that could be used for both would have wide versatility and allow for multiple builds which is where the money is.

Tymell
16-04-2009, 08:48
No.
Define *much*.
Yes.
:)

It's exactly this sort of comment that keeps my optimism going ;)


I don't hate DE. It is a made up army represented by old models. What is there to hate? I do hate to see companies make bad decisions and that is opposition.

To be fair though, define "made up army"? Until recently Orks were an army with models mostly as old as the DE.

I can understand Ben's point about the financial explanations, and I don't think it's fair to simply say he hates them. However, I do still disagree with it: I think with sufficient work there's no reason DE need be a loss.

hush88
16-04-2009, 09:12
I only play marines but DE is something that i really want to get my hands on, but seeing how GW is working on it, i will probably stay faithful to the Emperor forever.

LastManOnEarth
16-04-2009, 09:54
Why is it phasing out the Pirates would be fine but phasing out DE would not. As I said an Eldar raider book that could be used for both would have wide versatility and allow for multiple builds which is where the money is.

They should have done one or the other. If they wanted to pull the plug on DE, they should have just done so; it's not like they'd lose current sales over it. Since they haven't, and have kept DE as a distinct army in 5th edition rulebook, it seems the plan is to keep them.

Thus the mistake was perpetuating the Eldar corsair/pirate thing while, nominally, keeping Dark Eldar as a distinct army. The corsairs are a secondary element of the Eldar fluff, but it blurs the lines between the two armies/cultures/races, and thus made it harder to adequately differentiate the two (fluffwise).

Publishing a cross-army sub-list doesn't clarify anything; as it stands in the current fluff, Eldar corsairs/pirates from craftworlds are an entirely different phenomenon than Dark Eldar pirates (which is basically a redundant phrase). Eldar pirates are just CW Eldar playing at pirates; they still have soul gems, wraithbone, aspect discipline, etc. Dark Eldar piracy is their only means of life and survival; the basic DE warrior is a pirate.

It seems the only way to share a common sub-list without diluting the distinct identity of the Dark Eldar would be to develop the pirate sub-list to be as distinct from either Eldar or Dark Eldar as the Harlequins, which I think could be sharable between the two. But given that Harlequins were reduced from a separate codex to a single unit within Codex:Eldar, I think its safe to say that there's not going to be a cross-army subcodex for raiders.

If the pirate raider element is a sharable side order for DE, the basic DE concept (the non-pirate part) would require drastic reconceptualization. It seems to me GW has enough 'catch-up' work to do just to get the current conceptualization fleshed out and current. I doubt they'd want to double that.

Maybe GW has a radical redesign of the nature of Dark Eldar such that they are no longer piratical raiders, but I severely doubt it.

LMoE

Poseidal
16-04-2009, 09:57
Personally, I think GW made a mistake in the Eldar fluff by keeping up the "Eldar Corsair/Pirate" idea, since this cuts into the Dark Eldar "niche" and adds unnecessary confusion between the two. The basic Craftworld fluff is rich enough already that phasing out the "pirate" aspect would be a small loss; the "piratical raider" element is much more fundamental to the Dark Eldar fluff [realistically, what else do they have beyond that and the torture/slavery element?]. As it is it makes it harder to revamp and clearly (re)define Dark Eldar, since that angle has been leaked over to the CW Eldar.

LMoE
Some people still very much like the Corsair concepts though, and it's the main Eldar BFG presence.

It is more of a spaceborne power compared with the Dark Eldar though.

I think DE would be better going in a different direction to Pirates; more like 'pleasure fleets' where the Dark Eldar are pillaging as part of a package holiday. They raid your settlements because you bring light to their life; as Hellebore said in a different thread:

Slashyslashydeathdeath is a bit boring. The Dark eldar should be completely reasonable in a very twisted way. You cannot understand how much they love having you there to play with. You bring light into their life. Your existence is a beautiful moment to cherish as they slowly and lovingly tease your soul from its mortal bonds.

The dark eldar do it because they love you.

That is what I'd like to see Dark Eldar like.

the1stpip
16-04-2009, 09:57
So just from this one thread, we can see that Dark Eldar are a very anticipated release.

We don't want Chaos Eldar, and we don't want Craftword Eldar. I don't mind them being furthered as Pirate Eldar, but keep them distinct.

I think that constantly blowing your trumpet about how it is financially unrealistic to keep an army that no one wants though in stupid. The only thing holding them back are their models. When we see Jes' new sculpts, we will all want the army (just like Tau, Eldar and Orks).

Tymell
16-04-2009, 11:12
One comparison you could make in defence of their financial viability is Tau. It seems the argument against DE is "no one plays them, they don't get much in the way of sales".

Well, Tau didn't get anything in the way of sales before they were released. But they did alright.

They were a totally new race, but considering that Dark Eldar have had essentially no support since their initial release (save the odd bit here and there for the codex) and nothing in the way of models, and will need massive fleshing out, they may as well be.

The point is that just because something doesn't already have big sales doesn't mean it will inherently flop. It doesn't have low sales because it's inherently bad, it has poor sales because GW don't support it.

Grindgodgrind
16-04-2009, 11:34
The DE models are done, apparently. That's straight from Jes Goodwin himself, from the design studio open day a month or two back.

druchii lord narakh
16-04-2009, 13:00
big thing im hearing here is taht DE have no back ground. well....IT'S BEACUSE LAST TIME THEY WERE RUSHED. hell GW didn't give them a hoot cause back then everyone wanted to work on space marines. how things are now its almost a blank page GW can make look and fight awsomely. the DE are not some loser at the back end of the armie list, there pretty high up there. o to a adeptacon or gamesday and ask around you will get at least 25-35 people at least who play DE or havent started but want to play them. most DE players are waiting for new modles and a new book. if GW makes those things and starts to sell them GW will make a big profit.

corsair/ pirate eldar should be cut together with DE.

someone asked on how a single city can effect the 40k universe. CAMMORRAGH IS THE SIZE OF IT'S INHABATINTS POPULATIONS. it grows and shrinks and we can tell you now its pretty big. unlike eldar DE dont seem to be dieing seeing as the DE live where no one can chase them without being lost forever and arnt staing to some strick devout line of selfrestriction. i bet Cammorragh is the size of a few planets. (concidering that its in the webway and can alter size to acomadate)

Templar Ben
16-04-2009, 13:04
To be fair though, define "made up army"? Until recently Orks were an army with models mostly as old as the DE.

I can understand Ben's point about the financial explanations, and I don't think it's fair to simply say he hates them. However, I do still disagree with it: I think with sufficient work there's no reason DE need be a loss.

When I said "made up" I just meant that I couldn't hate DE anymore than I could hate gnomes in D&D 2nd edition or House Steiner in Battletech. There is nothing to "hate", as it were.



One comparison you could make in defence of their financial viability is Tau. It seems the argument against DE is "no one plays them, they don't get much in the way of sales".

Well, Tau didn't get anything in the way of sales before they were released. But they did alright.

They were a totally new race, but considering that Dark Eldar have had essentially no support since their initial release (save the odd bit here and there for the codex) and nothing in the way of models, and will need massive fleshing out, they may as well be.

The point is that just because something doesn't already have big sales doesn't mean it will inherently flop. It doesn't have low sales because it's inherently bad, it has poor sales because GW don't support it.

I don't know if that is the case as there is baggage there. It is often better for a new one instead bringing back a failed line as people will try to bring up stuff that was retconned and talk down the army because of how it was. That is why Squats won't come back but Hrud could.

Tymell
16-04-2009, 13:35
The DE models are done, apparently. That's straight from Jes Goodwin himself, from the design studio open day a month or two back.

Hmm, what precisely did he say? This sounds a bit chinese-whisper-y? Given the hints we've been getting I could well believe they've done some model work (e.g. basic test sculpts and greens), but I think we'd be hearing more if they'd actually finished the models.


When I said "made up" I just meant that I couldn't hate DE anymore than I could hate gnomes in D&D 2nd edition or House Steiner in Battletech. There is nothing to "hate", as it were.

Ahh, I getcha. Sorry, my misinterpretation, I thought you meant in the sense that they were added in after the beginnings of the game and so were somehow worth less.


I don't know if that is the case as there is baggage there. It is often better for a new one instead bringing back a failed line as people will try to bring up stuff that was retconned and talk down the army because of how it was. That is why Squats won't come back but Hrud could.

True, although I think Squats are a bit different: they really just couldn't fit into this. I think Dark Eldar can fit just fine, they just need some work. It has got some baggage, but that would mostly be with players who already play them, and so already have an interest.

Beld
16-04-2009, 13:54
I'd really love for the DE to come out. I really want to start them NOW.
When they where released I didn't like them, cuz I'm a 2nd edition eldar player, and I found them bad BG whise (they also removed the eldar pirates from my army list!)

But now I'm starting to like the fluff and the way the play.

Ravening Wh0re
16-04-2009, 16:38
I don't know if that is the case as there is baggage there. It is often better for a new one instead bringing back a failed line as people will try to bring up stuff that was retconned and talk down the army because of how it was. That is why Squats won't come back but Hrud could.

Oh Ben, I see the DE situation a lot like how the Necrons were once perceived. They had a small range (with army list) but no support or background. Once the codex was released they became extremely popular expanding on what little they had.

Imagine if people had dismissed the Necrons as you do DE.

The Sisters had a wonderful codex back in 2nd, but were not supported at all after that. With a new codex their popularity had a surge (even using basically the same models)

the1stpip
16-04-2009, 16:43
Its not chinese whispers.

When I spoke to the design team at GD UK, thy said Jes was currently designing them and Phil Kelly was doing the codex.

Then a while back, there was a podcast about how Jes was half way through, and Phil had not been given a dadline so that he could make sure they were perfect.

The fact that this latst news is they have been sculpted (still a long way to go, I know) fills me with even more joy.

Max_Killfactor
16-04-2009, 17:01
Oh Ben, I see the DE situation a lot like how the Necrons were once perceived. They had a small range (with army list) but no support or background. Once the codex was released they became extremely popular expanding on what little they had.

Imagine if people had dismissed the Necrons as you do DE.


I agree, it is very similar to the Necron situation. All the DE need is decent background and some updated models (like the Necrons got) and I think they will be a popular army.

It would be foolish for GW to give up on an army that already has a devoted following... especially after letting Jes work on them for about 2 years or so.

Tymell
16-04-2009, 18:05
Its not chinese whispers.

When I spoke to the design team at GD UK, thy said Jes was currently designing them and Phil Kelly was doing the codex.

Then a while back, there was a podcast about how Jes was half way through, and Phil had not been given a dadline so that he could make sure they were perfect.

The fact that this latst news is they have been sculpted (still a long way to go, I know) fills me with even more joy.

I meant in the sense of how far into the model process they are. The impression I got from that post was that they're done and dusted with the models, and I wondered if this had been a misinterpretation of a comment about having some basic model work done.

druchii lord narakh
16-04-2009, 22:09
i personally spoke with phil kelly at adeptacon last year and his words were that dark eldar should be released near 3rd to 4th quarter this year. seeing as he does awsome books and he is supposed to be doing the dark eldars its a big hope of mine that his words were true.

Static Entropy
16-04-2009, 23:29
i personally spoke with phil kelly at adeptacon last year and his words were that dark eldar should be released near 3rd to 4th quarter this year. seeing as he does awsome books and he is supposed to be doing the dark eldars its a big hope of mine that his words were true.

I hope so too, I'd like to start them as my second army since they'd be different enough from my CSM to allow a completely different playing style. And I'd get to paint blades instead of spikes.

lotrchampion
16-04-2009, 23:45
Q3/Q4 2010 would be my estimation.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 00:21
Yay I'm the hundredth user to vote "Never" what did I win?

The poor dark eldar had to suffer from NNCS (No New Codex Syndrome) for so long I'm starting to doubt they're ever going to recover. I even start deeming it more likely for them to be one or two new units in Codex Eldar. I do hope they don't go the path of the Squat, because Dark Eldar are a really stylish bunch fluff- and design-wise.

Hashshashin
17-04-2009, 01:28
Yeah, Never, get over it...J/K

The thing I find most funny is when they finally do update the Codex everyone who has been waiting will be upset about this that or the other...So it's really a lose, lose I feel. Last time I played a Dark Eldar army it was pretty solid and I got owned, granted that was like 4 years ago but, hey.

druchii lord narakh
17-04-2009, 01:45
i plan to start saving money for dark eldar now and when they come out buy like one of each of the new boxes and maybe five to six of the battle forces. on that is anyone else out there saving cause if you are then good. we could make GW regret waiting all those years when as soon as they release dark eldar they have more pre orders than with the guard and marines combined.(big dream i wish to come true.

starlight
17-04-2009, 01:47
As long as I can run my DEWC, I'll be happy. :)


Of course sales might suck if prices go through two more annual increases. :(

Joezombie
17-04-2009, 01:57
Wait...? druchii lord narakh, leme get it straight, your plan to punish GW for not releasing any Dark Eldar in a timely fashion... is to throw lots of monies at them when they finally do? and that's suppose to show 'um? Although I bet that's what most of us are gana do (me included) I doubt it will make GW regret much of anything.. Flaming Toilet paper on the other hand... But anyways I'm hoping DE keep their spot after the Space Pups. It would rock so hard if they made it in before tho....

druchii lord narakh
17-04-2009, 05:44
i geuse your right.(not thinking to much then) but at my GW i plan to preorder at least all the battle forces they can get. it make me happy. then maybe the store my get a DE army in there show case. id love that

Creeping Dementia
17-04-2009, 06:55
If the show "Who Wants to be A Millionaire" taught me anything, it's that for some reason, if you poll the audience, they are almost always right.
So... BLAM. Let's do this.

Hmm, not looking good for the Dark Eldar then.:eek:

Tymell
17-04-2009, 08:28
Although in this case the results are probably a little skewed: looking at the posts, a number of people are voting "Never" because they don't want them to be released, rather than based on when they believe they will.

Hypaspist
17-04-2009, 11:06
on that is anyone else out there saving cause if you are then good.

oh I am saving.... but not to punish GW, to reward them into realising that Dark Eldar love = £££££

I have a nest egg of £300 and growing by the month for my frail soul drinking beauties when they finally arrive!

Max_Killfactor
17-04-2009, 13:17
Hmm, not looking good for the Dark Eldar then.:eek:

Yeah... I probably should have made a choice between "2nd quarter 2010" and "Never"... something like "Later than 2nd quarter 2010"

However, if you add together the two 2010 categories... more people think they are coming out in the first half of 2010 than never. :wtf:

the1stpip
17-04-2009, 13:48
Well, seeing as I already have 1750 of Dark Eldar, ther won't be a lot of money spent from me.

However, a good codex and some nice models could easily change that, and with Phil and Jes at the helm, that is very likely.

freddieyu
17-04-2009, 15:02
I believe it shall be released....it is a matter of "when" not "if"....and the new look is already hinted in the rulebook....

The models are really looking their age, but the list itself is still competitive especially with the 5th ed rules...besides eldar jetbikes and eldar troops in skimmers (and now IG troops in valkryies), they are the other army that can have troops that can move 24" in the last turn in quantity (meaning if you configure it all 6 troop slots can do this)....so they can do very well in objective based games.....wyches armed with special weapons and led by succubi with agonisers can hth anything in 40K (that 4+ WS in assault is an excellent rule update!) and the DE are cheap enough so that you can get a lot of infantry which benefit from 4+ cover saves in 5th ed, making them more sturdy, and they can carry 4(!!) weapons per troop squad....disintegrators are EXCELLENT and flexible weapons..etc etc.....

TrojanWolf
20-04-2009, 01:53
I'd say that I'll definitely be saving from this point, considering that I feel pretty much content with my WoC and my Easterlings, and I have more Orks than I can paint (damn you Nobz, Stompa and looted Doomhammer!).

Marshal Augustine
20-04-2009, 02:04
I think that placing DE in planetstrike means that we are not (with their own strategems) means that GW is not planning to just cut them out any time in the near future.
So the fact will not be "if DE comes out" more like "when".

solkan
20-04-2009, 02:07
I voted "Never" out of pure cynicism.

On the one hand, if a slightly tweaked "Third printing" version came out which kept the armory, there would be complaints about "What took you so long?" On the other hand, if the Dark Eldar were subject to the new armory-less regime, how brutal would that be to the army?

To be honest, Dark Eldar are in better shape as a playable codex than Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters because atleast it doesn't reference non-existent units. And, honestly, I think it's a bad sign when their codices are used to cherry pick allies than to field full armies.

starlight
20-04-2009, 02:22
Given how little of the existing Armoury actually gets used...not very. :p

TrojanWolf
20-04-2009, 02:35
On the one hand, if a slightly tweaked "Third printing" version came out which kept the armory, there would be complaints about "What took you so long?" On the other hand, if the Dark Eldar were subject to the new armory-less regime, how brutal would that be to the army?

If they did that, it wouldn't make a lot of happy DE players. It'd feel like a rip off.

Nachturne
20-04-2009, 09:28
RIGHT Can I please just get this off my chest. Allot of people are saying that it's financialy bad and that they'll make less monet etc. And I agree. However. When you are making **** loads of profit of everything you sell, I think you can bloody well pull your finger out and spend some of that money making your products better. I'm sick of paying out the nose as it is. At least spend some of the moeny on something will make your customers happy. Honestly. Why don't you actualy take a small step towards giving yourself a better reputation/relationship with your existing customers instead of screwing them over every 2 seconds. And also, if you are like me a customer. Stop suporting them. You can buy warhammer 40k and whammer fantasy and warhammer lots and paints etc with a 25% discount of "gifts for geeks.com" and theres other websites to get it from too. So save yourself some cash, like I do, and stop supporting a company that frankly don't seem to care.

I agree 100% with this.

DE might never have been popular, DE even have the stigma of being a horrible army to play in many circles, but the fact remains that many people have a DE army and that how much trouble would it be to put together a codex and few resculptes to show that you are not negating the wishes of your fans. Maybe it might even ignite a new interest in them.

Tymell
20-04-2009, 09:53
Something from the 40K rumours forum that folks here who haven't already seen it may find interesting:


- Speaking of Dark Eldar (nice transition is it not?), I quizzed the man [Phil Kelly] about everyone's favourite pirates. Apparently Phil himself is writing the book. They're redesigning the whole thing from the bottom up : minis, background (he specifically mentioned fleshing it out, which is pretty nice). He would not give me a date (said things get shifted around as development progesses) but we might hope to see it in 2010 (don't quote me on this, it's just personal opinion and in no way endorsed by Phill Kelly)

So, again: we don't have a date, but they are still being worked on, GW is not dropping them. Also included in this thread were the race-specific stratagems, among them Dark Eldar, so again not a suggestion of a race about to be dropped.

TimLeeson
20-04-2009, 10:02
I sincerely hope the DE players get their update at least late this year, or more realistically 2010. I think the army has ALOT of potential, the backround has so much to be explored - id certainly buy the codex at the least, I want to read about the Commoragh and the hinted at "other cities", as well as more of their culture and such. I love playing against DE too, they are always fun and challenging to fight against. They seem to however be one of the four "under-appreciated/under-represented" armies along with necrons and the inquisition forces. I hope DE and the other three get support. 40k is lacking in diversity as it is, so bringing those races up to date will restore a little balance at the least IMO.

GeneralDisaster
20-04-2009, 10:12
Early 1010, I reckon.
The new codex can't come soon enough, though.

Bloody hell, I knew the current Dark Eldar codex was old, but I didn't know we had it prior to the the norman invasion...so you expect it a thousand years ago? Wishful thinking...

TrojanWolf
27-04-2009, 00:37
Bloody hell, I knew the current Dark Eldar codex was old, but I didn't know we had it prior to the the norman invasion...

Sigged, for certain!