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Sons of Alaitoc v.2
16-04-2009, 13:15
What army do/did you hate to play? It doesn't have to be just 5th edition, for example you might have hated playing Eldar in, lets say...3rd edition.

GeneralDisaster
16-04-2009, 13:28
Hey Alex.

Eldar are pretty infuriating. Not because they are hard to beat, but that their fancy units take out stuff on the way out.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
16-04-2009, 13:30
Hey JAMES

I hate playing all imperial armies, as I hate humans. No really I hate Witch hunters, mainly because of the acts of faith.

Hypaspist
16-04-2009, 13:37
I don't particularly hate playing any race, although having had a text from my friend telling me he is going to load up on conscripts with Commisars and throw 50 men at me who are all stubborn and coming in at below 100 pts I get the impression that I will begin to loath playing against the praetorian guard with tibetan reserves (ie conscripts, cool army to look at though)

Generally its more the player or the army list than the army per se.
I used the Ravenwing in a 750 pt mini tourney my gaming group had in 4th edition, I didn't win, that pleasure went to the orks, but people DID tend to hate seeing the sight of Sammael and three of his Landpseeder buddies charging down the table, I actually might nominate myself come to think of it because EVERYONE hated playing against that army....
:)

Beld
16-04-2009, 13:52
Hey Alex,
I hate playing against the sisters of battle.
As for what army I hated playing WITH... hmmm dunno.

Spider-pope
16-04-2009, 14:17
Tyranids. Its not that i dont like the race, or find them especially difficult to beat, its just im sick of playing against them. Before i moved, my old club consisted of 1 Witch Hunters player (me), 1 Daemonhunters player, and 18 Tyranid players. Playing against Tyranids week after week pretty much burned me out, so i groan inwardly whenever i see them plonked down opposite me.

Snotteef
16-04-2009, 14:30
Definitely hate playing against Daemons. I don't really think they should have their own army to begin with. Combine that with it's sheer abuseability and you have a 'no fun' kind of game.

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 14:34
What army do/did you hate to play? It doesn't have to be just 5th edition, for example you might have hated playing Eldar in, lets say...3rd edition.

Eldar are the most frustrating.

Everything you can do Eldar do better, while not sucking in other departments. Master strategist army my ***

Tau have -no- answer for Eldar what so ever because Eldar are better at shooting, assault, and they are much faster. And a shooty Eldar army isn't -total pants- in assault like -any- Tau list is. We sacrifice an entire phase of the game to get mediocre shooting... what do Eldar do? Be better by default period.

galahad67
16-04-2009, 14:37
necrons

or it just might be the necron players that I find annoying...

Gaargod
16-04-2009, 14:47
Ultramarines. Not because they're good, just because they're GW's favourite army and just about every beginner starts on them. Seriously, on beginner days its usually large battle consisting of:

Good side:
10 space marine players

Evil side:
5 space marine players pretending to be evil, and a small scattering of the other armies all who have to pretend to be evil if they're not.

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 14:49
necrons

or it just might be the necron players that I find annoying...

If you played crons, you'd be annoying too. Especially when the most cool looking models in the army are the least fieldable. Flayed Ones, Pariah and C'Tan immediately spring to mind. (The C'tan is more along the lines of not being worth his points. Much like the Wraith aren't. But the C'tan is so badly over priced that unlike say wraiths he's not even situationally useful)

The only thing we have going for us is that it usually takes five turns before we are wiped off the board. Too bad it's five turns before the other side of the table has any significant casualties from Necrons. Unless of course it's assault. Then we are tabled by turn 3 usually.

Latro_
16-04-2009, 14:53
Anything mechanised, seems to be a pain in the backside army to face in 5th ed.

Lord Damocles
16-04-2009, 15:15
If you played crons, you'd be annoying too.
Or if said necron players have no idea of the rules in their own codex - which seems to be disturbingly common amoungst Necron players. I can see how they could be annoying ('I fire Flux Arc and Particle Whip LOLOLOLOLOL!')
/Rant

Anywho :angel:
To answer the actual question: anything with any sort of heavy infantry, specialised assault units, or meachanised units.
Yep you guessed it. I play Necrons.

Vaktathi
16-04-2009, 15:20
Eldar under 4th ed were simply insane, the SMF rules simply worked way too well with them. They aren't so bad anymore.

Currently, probably TMC tyranids and basic Space Marines. I usually actually do rather well against both of these armies, but playing against them feels like pulling teeth as they have a bajillion exceptions to everything and rather arbitrary bonuses.

I also find playing against other CSM armies when playing my own CSM's tends to be rather boring. Same with my IG.

Frontier
16-04-2009, 15:21
I have a rough time against Eldar, mostly because everything I hit seems to have an invul save, a power weapon, or can make me roll two dice on the damage table. Fun times, if a bit frustrating.

BigBadBull
16-04-2009, 15:24
Nids.. The numbers are just stupid. Regenerate this , strength 10 that...

Fideru
16-04-2009, 15:59
Nids. Personally, I find them difficult to beat, but, it's brutal when they outnumber SM here.

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 16:05
Or if said necron players have no idea of the rules in their own codex - which seems to be disturbingly common amoungst Necron players. I can see how they could be annoying ('I fire Flux Arc and Particle Whip LOLOLOLOLOL!')
/Rant



I think that's partly a side effect of people not wishing to show them how their army actually works because everyone's too busy claiming "necrons are cheese!"

GeneralDisaster
16-04-2009, 16:09
Necrons beardy?

Nonsense. I have yet to win a game with them in 5th ed, whereas in 4th, every game I played with them was a victory. In one week I lost four games, which is why my siggy hasn't been updated-the shame is too great to bear...

Boss Kopstud
16-04-2009, 16:14
'Nids for me too. It's an army I've never done well against for whatever reason since 3rd Edition. 2nd Ed 'Nids are another story, loved to fight them....

Dangersaurus
16-04-2009, 16:23
Hi Alex.

I don't dislike any of the current edition armies, but I do hate 2nd edition Necrons. They were entirely a nuisance army ("My cool power is that you can't hit and your vehicles don't work! FUN!")

Marshal Sinclair
16-04-2009, 16:25
Alex,

Marines. Boring, and I find most Marine players like to tailor their lists. I know I shouldn't lump them all in the same category, but I am damn it! I played a game not long ago with my Tallarn Guard (all infantry, no heavy weapons in squads) and he asked what I had, asked to see my models, then wrote his list. You guessed it, with as much anti infantry stuff as possible and zero anti tank. Very annoying. Still killed his force commander in combat with my Herioc Senior Officer though. :D

Vepr
16-04-2009, 16:29
I don't dislike playing any army other than the one I am currently playing. Nid on nid or marine or marine. It just never feels right to me. As long as it is a different army than the one I am running I am happy.

From Shadows
16-04-2009, 16:38
Well i have to go with Dark Eldar ( wyche heavy ), my buddy is have skilled at using them and has been using them since 3rd edition. I do have to say they make for great games, so i do enjoy playing them but i guess i fear them a little. ;)

Ubermensch Commander
16-04-2009, 17:11
Necrons. Annoying as hell, boring as hell. Not to mention the blantant and constant "mistinterpertation of rules" which = finding easter eggs or just flat out lying. How far does that Res Orb go again? Oh, Ok wow no wonder its mandatory. *after battle* Wait just one damn minute! "oh oops! I was wrong!"

Also, Sisters of Battle. I have played them so rarely I pretty much have to take the opponents faith rolls on, ironically enough, blind faith. That power you have to roll OVER the number of ladies, and then that one you roll UNDER? And you have HOW many faithpoints? Ok...ummm...sure. It makes them a brutal army to fight against, which could be fun, but I will admit some small amount of jaw dropping when a single Exorcist blasts a Hive Tryant in one round of shooting. One. Oi. 2+ save Flyrant is toast! haha.

Those are the only two armies that stand out as "uggh" to fight against, with all others being dependent on the player(s) involved, the scenario, and the lists.

I love playing my friends White Scars army though. Dark Eldar vs White Scars is fun! Though he laughed long and hard at the face I made when he told me his multimelta was in range.

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 17:13
I'm sorry that's partly your own fault. If this happened once, you should look through your opponents codex before your next game against him or her.

Our Space Marine guys do it all the time. (getting rules wrong to Easter Egg). The Necron Codex is incredibly clear written.

MadJackMcJack
16-04-2009, 17:17
Any fully mechanised skimmer army. Get close, and they run away faster then you can catch up. Dark Eldar aren't so bad because their vehicles are fragile, but Tau and Eldar are pains in the butt.

Of course, nothing was as bad as Craftworld Eldar. I had the misfortune to play an Alatioc list maxed out of Pathfinders. Oh yes, that was fun :rolleyes:

Ubermensch Commander
16-04-2009, 17:20
@Capt Micha
The large FAQ of the Necron codex for 4th edition would like to disagree with you there. The only one larger was, I believe, the Chaos 3.5 codex.
While some of their rules were clear, there were exceptions even with things like living metal on the monolith and the Vindicare bullet or the old Stikkbomb from the previous Ork codex. Then there was the We Will Back and Sweeping Advances and similar situations. Some inventive Necron players believed that they dragged the bodies with them.

And are Necron players exempt from the rule "Don't be a cheating cheatery cheat?"
I fail to see how expecting a player to not cheat (IE lying about rules/stats in their codex) is an unreasonable assumption.
I did not want to call him on basic rules in the codex, as that would have slowed the game down. But i checked after the game and realized he was cheating and had blantantly lied to my face.

x-esiv-4c
16-04-2009, 17:21
Marines, any kind of marines really. Not that they are hard to beat, it's just that it seems to be all that people are playing around here.

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 17:25
@Capt Micha
The large FAQ of the Necron codex for 4th edition would like to disagree with you there. The only one larger was, I believe, the Chaos 3.5 codex.
While some of their rules were clear, there were exceptions even with things like living metal on the monolith and the Vindicare bullet or the old Stikkbomb from the previous Ork codex. Then there was the We Will Back and Sweeping Advances and similar situations. Some inventive Necron players believed that they dragged the bodies with them.

And are Necron players exempt from the rule "Don't be a cheating cheatery cheat?"
I fail to see how expecting a player to not cheat (IE lying about rules/stats in their codex) is an unreasonable assumption.
I did not want to call him on basic rules in the codex, as that would have slowed the game down. But i checked after the game and realized he was cheating and had blantantly lied to my face.

Most of that faq was pretty much copy and paste jobs straight from the codex.

I don't see how they thought that considering the rules out right say no WBB from sweeping advance. and if a unit's not in wbb range of the corpses they are done. There's no rule conflict there at all. Nor do I see how that a rule can be Easter egged that a unit "drags the body along" when during the "knock a model over" stage they out right say it's just there on the table so you know how many models are going to have to possibly roll for WBB. They don't exist at all for all other tense and purposes. They say that -in the book-.

No player is exempt from the Don't Be A ********* rule. Frankly I've read just about every codex that my opponents field just for rules clarification purposes if nothing else. And it's extra insurance against Cheating. Which is a very common thing I've found that goes on when your opponent knows you are ignorant of rules. It's not just a Necron thing, it's alot of players that do this. Furthermore if I feel someone's gotten a rule wrong or -I'm- foggy on how they are using a rule, I'll actually look up said rule to see who's right on the matter. Especially when it's going to impact the game in a major way.

Ubermensch Commander
16-04-2009, 17:36
@Capt Micha
And yet, with Sweeping Advance and in similar situations in close combat, I have had Necron players try to argue exactly that. And despite it being "copy and paste" from the codex, it remains that players had the questions and it needed to be published.

I reaffirm; I freaking despise Necrons in their current incarnation, and have never enjoyed playing them. An army whose gimmick is "Ignore other armys special rules and just keep getting back up" has always made the game more like test in patience akin to a root canal than an actually fast paced game. One of the reasons I enjoy DE vs WS is the dynamic movement.


What I take umbrage too, is your insinuation that someone else CHEATING is my fault? No, that is on their head, not mine.

As for the rules being clear, well, have to agree to disagree, though I feel the FAQ(reinforced by my own experience). So yeah...in the end...**** NECRONS. So please dont try and argue me out of what I do not like playing. Thank you.

the_picto
16-04-2009, 17:36
I'm going to go with tau. Purely because all the people I see playing Tau just have a line of firewarriors, a hammerhead and a handfull of suits. Gun lines are not fun!

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 17:39
Ubermensh: they aren't the army. They are just ****** that obviously have zero reading comprehension skills. If those players were playing Smurfs do you honestly think they would be any different? Answer in short hell no. Or worse yet Eldar? Could you imagine what these numbskulls would try to pull with Farseer psychic powers?

As for armies that ignore special rules go, Eldar are far more notorious for that sort of thing than -any- other army. Save for maybe Nids. (who ignore any thing involving LD)

Shangrila
16-04-2009, 17:41
I hate playing space marines, with and against. Since so many people have them its like a guarantee, then i get accused of tailoring lists since all my line squads have a plasmagun and all vets have triple meltas.

I do Enjoy playing with/against a fluffy army though.(unless its Ultramarines from the books...)

madden
16-04-2009, 18:02
my worst hate is against witch hunters and there faith points and other ott weapons, then it's eldar as there super psyks and inv saves all over the place especilly harliquins HOW MANY RENDING ATTACKS, my worst to play as is crons as they are boring the new rules just mean less tank killing(i use lots of warriors and no mono but still win 9/10).

Captain Micha
16-04-2009, 18:05
The army I hate playing the most is probably my Tau. Pretty much all of their punch is outclassed by every other army. With the exception of my Broadsides. Vehicle based Tau is so full of Lose right now.

Ubermensch Commander
16-04-2009, 18:08
@Micha
Yes it is partly the players, but i have found that army draws those players.

As for Eldar doing that, I have never had that experience. And we have had a few different Eldar players at my store (they tend to come and go, high cycle rate of armies as folks buy, then sell the armies...usually buying them back out of nostalgia. "Man, I miss my Dark Angels!" and such) For whatever reason, the Eldar rules make more sense to us around where I play. It has usually been clear cut, except for getting editions mixed up concerning Psychic powers from inside a vehicle.

Eldar special rules ignoring other special rules? The only one i can think off is the Wave Serpents field, but that is only front front and I think maybe sides. That means it becomes an interesting challenge to hit the thing where its shields arent. You can actually force the player to turn it sideways, and then get with a shot from a well position...lets say Rhino mount squad. This means its a matter of move/counter move which adds to the dynamics of the game. Even with the much maligned Holofield at least I CAN blow off weapons. Not so the Monolith. -1 to an autofiring weapon? Bah. So now I feel I have wasted my shots. Frustration, and sucking fun out of game rather quickly.



Anyway, even following the rules without abusal it is not fun for me to play an army that is themed around getting back up(Wow great tactic, sit there and take it), has itmes that negate the negatives of their army (No transport handled by teleporting, res orb negating ways to get around WBB) or the positives of other armies (High armor no matter with Gauss, Monolith ignoring D Lance or Melta, which means my Salamanders and Dark Eldar's main guns are now worthless) and minial to no variety in the unit selection. Oh look. A necron warrior squad. Any difference in layout? Nope. No special weapons (thanks to blanket "gauss" rule), no seargent options, no nothing!
This makes for an incredibly boring game for me. With either Marines or Eldar, I have to avoid/compensate for the various squads and squad layouts they bring to the table. The variety makes for exciting and dynamic games. With Crons....its just this blankt "blah" effect. Very much a sense of "same ol, same ol".

Thus, I hate playing Necrons. Players being frakheads aside, the army is not appealing and not fun to play against, making for dull, non dynamic games that tend to linger as the guys you keep blowing up, just get back up. No vehicles to maneuver, no different loadouts on squads to have units act in concert since its all Gauss, etc, just makes Necrons an army I do not enjoy playing against.

Seargent K
16-04-2009, 18:25
I would say Orks.They are cheap T4 creatures with furious charge and Mob rule.You will need a bucket of armor saves to roll(in both shooting and CC).

Radium
16-04-2009, 18:36
I don't dislike playing any army other than the one I am currently playing.

This.

And any army that completely forgets is has a movement phase (Tau crisis suits don't count as moving).

Eldarion
16-04-2009, 18:39
Hi Alex

Once upon a time i did hate space marines. I thought they looked terribly unrealistic, hated the bulky armour, bolters looked stupid. Now I play them......Blood angels rock!

Putty
16-04-2009, 18:47
What army do/did you hate to play? It doesn't have to be just 5th edition, for example you might have hated playing Eldar in, lets say...3rd edition.

Eldar.

The units are so specialised in their specialisation that they will just kill your butt if you enter their kill zone by mistake.

and i really hate the bloody farseer.


Necrons beardy?

Nonsense. I have yet to win a game with them in 5th ed, whereas in 4th, every game I played with them was a victory. In one week I lost four games, which is why my siggy hasn't been updated-the shame is too great to bear...

ditto

i got so annoyed with mechanised lists with my necron army that i am forced to buy heavy destroyers to stand a chance.

currently, i'm

vs nids: 1 win, 1 draw
vs sm: 1 loss, 1 draw

GeneralDisaster
16-04-2009, 18:58
I've just given up playing with the 'crons until I get my new crondex. Roll on eternity...

"...and official sources have stated that the Necron codex will come just after the Dark Eldar one..."

Crap.

Ubermensch Commander
16-04-2009, 19:05
Soooo...Both DE and Necrons are going to come within the loose timeframe of Eternity and Never-not-Ever-hahahah-just fooling?
Ah well, I will hold onto hope anyway.

Robineng
16-04-2009, 19:07
My least favorite army when it comes to playing also happen to be my main army, Chaos Space Marines in 5th edition. The reason I've started 2 other armies, Eldar for something more specialised and Imperial Guard for something loyal to the Emperor and for fielding more units then everyone else. Hopefully playing these two aswell and having 3 to pick from will bring back my will to play Chaos sometimes aswell.

Marshal Sinclair
16-04-2009, 20:18
Soooo...Both DE and Necrons are going to come within the loose timeframe of Eternity and Never-not-Ever-hahahah-just fooling?
Ah well, I will hold onto hope anyway.

I heard the lead designer from Duke Nukem was helping write the DE and Necron books. Should be here any time now.

Buddha777
16-04-2009, 20:27
I heard the lead designer from Duke Nukem was helping write the DE and Necron books. Should be here any time now.

That is not cool. Watin since the early 90's for my Duke Nukem game. God help me if I had to wait that long for my new cron' dex.

As for armies I hate to play, any army that has the huge nob biker mob. Don't mind Nob bikers in smaller numbers, but general's who horde up on them with all bells and whistles just suck. Its not that they can't be dealt with its just it makes for boring game. Either I kill them before they reach me or I lose. Lame.

Coasty
16-04-2009, 20:35
I don't hate any entire factions, but I don't really enjoy it when the other guy brings the entire inventory of Honest Bob's Used Landraider and Terminator Armour Emporium.

Hicks
16-04-2009, 20:41
I would have to say DE, but that is because I usually face them with either my Nidzilla army, or my Grey Knight army. Unfortunatly, I'm also working on a White Scar army, a Death Guard army and then a Space Marine army.

Between being out classed in the speed department and using a few very expensive units, all of those armies are particularly not found of Darklances, Desintegrators and Agonizers.

Luckily, I have my IG too. Sometimes it pays to be a cheapo weakling with too many guns. :D

Emeraldw
16-04-2009, 20:49
I hate playing Imperial Guard. Their a good army with lots of firepower and plenty of guys. Sometimes I just find it tough to play against and it isn't always fun as they are the gunline army.

Grand Master Raziel
16-04-2009, 20:58
Hello Sons of Alaitoc V.2! To answer your question, there are two armies that I don't like playing against: Daemons and Dark Eldar. As far as Daemons go, I think there are major balance issues with allowing such an assault-heavy army to come into play entirely by Deep Strike. I also have issues with certain units in the army, but there's no need to get into that here.

As far as DE go, I don't like playing against them because hardly anyone plays them for fun in casual gaming. The only time I ever seem to see them get trotted out is when some cheesy git takes them to a tournament in order to sweep all before him. Codex: Dark Eldar badly needs an update, but that's at least as much because of the builds that are wildly overpowered as it is because there are units that have stank since 3rd ed.

Used to hate playing gunline SM armies, too. Thank goodness that's over and done with!

dal9ll
16-04-2009, 21:54
Eldar are the most frustrating.

Everything you can do Eldar do better, while not sucking in other departments. Master strategist army my ***

Yes I freaking hate Eldar too for the same reasons you listed, Micha. Eldar really have no weaknesses. Only strengths. Everywhere.

This thread really should be poll to better represent the census on this matter.

Giganthrax
16-04-2009, 22:09
Necrons, by far.

My beloved bolters and flamers aren't overly effective against their T4, 3+ save and WBB, and the goddamn warscythes actually ignore my invulnerable saves. Being a th/ss termie fan, it feels really depressing to see my wubbly termies die en-masse. :(

Threeshades
16-04-2009, 22:25
Yes I freaking hate Eldar too for the same reasons you listed, Micha. Eldar really have no weaknesses. Only strengths. Everywhere.

This thread really should be poll to better represent the census on this matter.

Try the follwing: Shoot the Banshees and assault the Reapers.

but well its true, Eldar are kinda hard to take since they can always run somewhere else to prevent you from doing what i just proposed.

dal9ll
16-04-2009, 22:53
Try the follwing: Shoot the Banshees and assault the Reapers.

They can just put them in a Wave Serpent that disallows S9 and S10 hits (making them S8), and doesnt allow melta armour penetration bonuses and gives the unit ultimate mobility and even immunity to Immobilizations. Like I said, Eldar have an answer to everything.

Threeshades
16-04-2009, 22:55
They can just put them in a Wave Serpent that disallows S9 and S10 hits (making them S8), and doesnt allow melta armour penetration bonuses and gives the unit ultimate mobility and even immunity to Immobilizations. Like I said, Eldar have an answer to everything.

immunity to immobilization? where's that from?

dal9ll
16-04-2009, 23:47
Sorry I meant immunity to getting destroyed from getting immobilized. Vectored Engines is what I was referring to.

AlmightyNocturnus
16-04-2009, 23:53
This army can jump over terrain, fire devasting weaponry, then jump back behind cover in the same turn, making for lame, frustrating battles.

To answer your questions Alex, What is the Tau?

I hate playing Tau and their JSJ bull$hit. Games against the Tau are completely one-sided and not fun. Either their superior shooting wipes the board by turn three, or I get some units into their lines and the Tau get swept turn by turn.

Marine vs. Marine battles can also be boring sometimes.

Almighty Nocturnus

Fafner_Ni
17-04-2009, 00:04
Hi Alex, i hate playing against Blood Ravens they hide in METAL BOXES! THE COWARDS THE FOOLS!(Yeah it's old but it makes me laugh)

Okay, seriously i don't really hate any army. I do hate facing certain lists namely nob bikers, but even then it's only because my list will have major problems fighting them.

Capt_Jman
17-04-2009, 00:04
Ya Smurfs are annoying, if only in the fact that games workshop is almost FORCEING you to play them. They seem like the best army so almost everyone starts them. Thats why I play Horde orks :evilgrin:.

But to play agianst I would say Any army with overyly cheesy parts. Like a list with 2 squads of nob bikers. (max 5 in one army) Or nids with more then 3 carnifex(ies, es, i, s), or mariens with more then 2 landraiders. But other then that its more about the people I play, and not the armys that beat me.

stonetroll
17-04-2009, 00:11
By far the worst thing I face with any regularity must be the DE with:

8 Raiders
15+ Dark Lances
6+ Disintegrators
Lord with 2+ inv and 6+ Incubi

Their codex is so old that what once was reasonable is now so over the top that it's hard to do anything about. (The fact that I play Nids might have something to do with my opinion though... facing so many skimmers with my gribblies is almost impossible).

Demon Druss
17-04-2009, 00:11
I can't stand Nidzilla backed up by hordes of utterly annoying spine(less)gaunts simply put it annoys me.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 00:17
I can't stand Nidzilla backed up by hordes of utterly annoying spine(less)gaunts simply put it annoys me.

Problem is, nids can either go by that or lose. Because besides fexes and tyrants there is hardly anything in the list that is resilient enough to make their point costs worthwhile. Warriors, Raveners, Lictors all are horribly overpriced for being so horribly frail.

JustTony
17-04-2009, 00:36
Orks. Only 6 flipping pionts for a Boy with T4, Furious Charge, huge unit size means no LD tests until you kill half of them, some shooting and fleet on the turn you Waagh. A Hormagaunt costs 10 points base and really needs the S4 and WS5 upgrades to handle Marines and such, winds up having a hard time against Orks. Of course when 32 gaunts hits a Ork Mob the Mob usually goes away, as long as the Nids did the charging. Devourer armed gaunts in big squads do well against Orks, and big Warrior squads with Stranglers and Deathspitters tend to clean them up as well. But the green funk is still a nightmare to play against and I don't even bother getting my Deamonhunters out against orks.

arachnid
17-04-2009, 01:44
I concur with the above.

you get a t4, mob ruled, furious charge model with weapons that turn terminatorarmor into a flakjacket...

For How few points???




On the other hand, every time a bud of mine breaks his orks out, i go:
"oh, cool, i'll just go get my defiler and vindicators..
where did i put my lash princes?""

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 01:51
I concur with the above.

you get a t4, mob ruled, furious charge model with weapons that turn terminatorarmor into a flakjacket...

For How few points???




On the other hand, every time a bud of mine breaks his orks out, i go:
"oh, cool, i'll just go get my defiler and vindicators..
where did i put my lash princes?""

those weapons you are talking about dont exist anymore. choppas count as regular CCWs now.

And FYI: you get a T4 mob ruled furious charge model with close to no range combat capabilities that has to cross an entire table before it even gets to do any damage for 6 points.

Wolfblade670
17-04-2009, 02:44
Eldar. I hate Eldar. And Orks. Phrases like "Eldrad at 750" and "Kult of Speed" make me cringe.

A1TEC
17-04-2009, 02:50
Necrons and IG

totgeboren
17-04-2009, 08:12
Hi Alex, i hate playing against Blood Ravens they hide in METAL BOXES! THE COWARDS THE FOOLS!

But on the other hand its really fun to TAKE AWAY THEIR METAL BOXES! :mad:

None of my friends like to face my DE. I tend to use about 30 models in a 1500 pts game, and just destroy one unit at a time whilse using my speed to avoid his heavy guns. Very very shooty army, and very boring to face.
I never use them anymore.

I mean, 40k is all about heroic actions on the battlefield. All the "cowardly" armies can be very frustrating to face. By "cowardly", i am refering to those that rely on speed and taget denial.

Its just a game, but many people are looking for something else than chasing battlesuits and such all game long.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 10:06
But on the other hand its really fun to TAKE AWAY THEIR METAL BOXES! :mad:

None of my friends like to face my DE. I tend to use about 30 models in a 1500 pts game, and just destroy one unit at a time whilse using my speed to avoid his heavy guns. Very very shooty army, and very boring to face.
I never use them anymore.

I mean, 40k is all about heroic actions on the battlefield. All the "cowardly" armies can be very frustrating to face. By "cowardly", i am refering to those that rely on speed and taget denial.

Its just a game, but many people are looking for something else than chasing battlesuits and such all game long.

so its more fun if you just put up a gun-line and shoot at everything that hops across the targeter?

I don't know, I hate just standing around basically not having a movement phase. That's incredibly boring to play.

Fixer
17-04-2009, 10:34
Eldar...

Not just the wargear combination oversights that make some units tougher than hell superb generalists and the game's best specialists. It's the damned mindset of so many of the players that their army can never be overpowered and that because their miniatures are sculpted like elves that they are better players.

Back in 3rd edition it took forcing the local Ulthwe seer council player to play against his own list with our armies (and losing every single time) before he could admit that they were overpowered and easy to play. He stopped playing Eldar after that. I think we broke him.

Hicks
17-04-2009, 12:10
I don't know, I hate just standing around basically not having a movement phase. That's incredibly boring to play.

Well what I think totgeboren means is that the game is even more boring if the only phase in wich you get to do something IS the movement phase.

GeneralDisaster
17-04-2009, 12:20
Well, there seems to be a consensus, ALEX, that everyone seems to hate ELDAR, ALEX!

Shove that up your Alaitoc and smoke it, you pointy eared prune!

(Harlequins-the deadliest interpretive dancers in existence.)

Darkstar2586
17-04-2009, 12:51
I admit as an eldar player that we are tough to kill, but only certain builds.

Take for example my friends foot themed army, i wasted it from a distance using my toughness (marines) and armour in cover to take the heat, Eldar if you know how to face them are really brittle and far from broken!

Now as for Orks.....i must agree, i hate them with a passion now, especially those lead by gazkull! in 3 turns with him its probable to move 39" move/run(3)/move/fleet(6)/move fleet(6) assault.

When you have a horde runnning at you that fast! eep! And battle baggons...their death roller and grot riggers! infuriating!

Captain Micha
17-04-2009, 12:57
Well what I think totgeboren means is that the game is even more boring if the only phase in wich you get to do something IS the movement phase.

Well if they had actually made Tau shooting worth losing -the most important phase of the game for- maybe we'd actually do something other than move around?

Even with our Pathfinders, our shooting is still sub par to say Eldar. (Who get to be better at assault mind you)

Now explain to me why would we want to stand there patiently and get our faces raped off in CC?

Logarithm Udgaur
17-04-2009, 13:02
Marines are the army I hate. Every tourney I have been to I somehow end up facing Marines in two out of three battles, no matter what other armies are around.

Thud
17-04-2009, 13:25
I'd say Necrons, but I haven't played against them for more than two years, so it's not really fair for them to get that. The reason is that every Necron army I've ever played has been more or less identical, but with two years past it would probably just be refreshing to face one again.

Hicks
17-04-2009, 15:13
Well if they had actually made Tau shooting worth losing -the most important phase of the game for- maybe we'd actually do something other than move around?

Even with our Pathfinders, our shooting is still sub par to say Eldar. (Who get to be better at assault mind you)

Now explain to me why would we want to stand there patiently and get our faces raped off in CC?

I didn't say Tau and DE players should stay immobile and lose, I just said that I understand how it can be boring for their opponents if they have to spend the whole game chasing mobile units without ever being able to shoot (except random pot shots trough cover) or assault them. It's as boring to them as it is for you when your Tau are getting assaulted en masse. It's the feeling of not being able to do anything and just being a punching bag for the other player's enjoyment.

Droofus
17-04-2009, 15:37
Eldar and Chaos...

Why? Super psychic powers (thinking particularly of doom, mindwar and lash of submission).

It's probably my own issue, but I really get POed that I can't stop psychic powers from effecting my army. Coming from fantasy, where any army can take magical defense, I'd really like a dispel scroll or something similar it just strikes me as wrong that some armies can't do ANYTHING to stop these powers from raping their army.

Yes, I know that psychic hoods are available to inquisition armies and space marines, and the Eldar and Tyranids have wargear. But for Chaos (yes, they live and die by this sword) Necrons, Orks, Tau, Dark Eldar and IG armies without allies, there is no way of blocking these game-changing powers.

I was tempted to put codex marines in the same place, but their psychic powers are kinda weak and specialized.

Joewrightgm
17-04-2009, 15:51
I don't really enjoy playing Dark Eldar; odd as it sounds, I can't seem to get a handle around how to beat them because I don't face them very often, and their players have been playing them for 4+ years!

Honestly no fault of the army that their players truly are masters of the battle field. Fielding T 3 Sv 5+ models that rely on being better generals than they other guy will do that though.

I honestly find certain players more annoying that other. That is the only thing that makes an army 'hard' to play against or one that you dislike to play.

Grand Master Raziel
17-04-2009, 16:10
Well if they had actually made Tau shooting worth losing -the most important phase of the game for- maybe we'd actually do something other than move around?

I'd argue that the movement phase is actually the most important phase of the game, because it's in the movement phase that one sets up withering rounds of shooting or devastating assaults. Players who use the movement phase well are more likely to win than players who don't use the movement phase well. Any player who uses a mechanized list either learns this in a hurry, or gets frustrated and switches over to a gunline army.

elf_hater_7
17-04-2009, 16:17
im surprised that more people havnt come out with nidzilla lists as being the army they hate the most. seriously, who thought of allowing people to take 3 carnifexes, all with toughness bonuses that ignore all S3 or lower hits (thats most of what guard can do out the window), and still have genestealers outflanking and crashing through your men?

Captain Micha
17-04-2009, 16:23
Nidzilla isn't on my love list. But I don't hate it. They still aren't nearly as annoying as Eldar. Nidzilla at least sacrifices something to be as good as it is. Unlike the army that I picked on.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 16:43
im surprised that more people havnt come out with nidzilla lists as being the army they hate the most. seriously, who thought of allowing people to take 3 carnifexes, all with toughness bonuses that ignore all S3 or lower hits (thats most of what guard can do out the window), and still have genestealers outflanking and crashing through your men?

i can only repeat, MCs, beside spine gaunts and maybe stealers are the only thing in the nid Codex that can take enough punishment to actually be worth the points you pay for them. Pretty much everything else, especially the warrior sized department is extremely expensive while barely able to sustain more damage than two ork boyz.

I hope for the next codex they take the elite carnifex out of the list and make warriors, raveners and such more resilient or a considerable bit cheaper.

Grand Master Raziel
17-04-2009, 16:55
For Warrior-size creatures, I'd back T5 with a base 4+ save. In return, however, Nids' armywide immunity to Instant Death has to go. Nids got that rule in the first place so Warriors wouldn't be insta-popped by krak missiles and lascannons, but if they were T5, that wouldn't be an issue and the ID-immunity could be dropped.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 17:01
For Warrior-size creatures, I'd back T5 with a base 4+ save. In return, however, Nids' armywide immunity to Instant Death has to go. Nids got that rule in the first place so Warriors wouldn't be insta-popped by krak missiles and lascannons, but if they were T5, that wouldn't be an issue and the ID-immunity could be dropped.

agreed. That would make them worth their points. (except maybe for lictors who are just.... woah)
with a bunch of warriors able to take a shot or two for a change fexes wouldnt be so horribly necessary anymore.

The immunity to instant death by hive mind control was an incredibly implausibly fluffed rule anyway.

darker4308
17-04-2009, 17:02
Necrons ... dull

Tau ... dull

Chaos powergaming douchbag ... worst

Fixer
17-04-2009, 17:06
For Warrior-size creatures, I'd back T5 with a base 4+ save. In return, however, Nids' armywide immunity to Instant Death has to go. Nids got that rule in the first place so Warriors wouldn't be insta-popped by krak missiles and lascannons, but if they were T5, that wouldn't be an issue and the ID-immunity could be dropped.

Works for me :)

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
17-04-2009, 17:14
If you are all going to call me Alex, please call General Disaster James, and just for the heck of it Freighty Maximus should be called Dan.

I hate playing against Space Marines, just for the fact that out of everyone i know that collects W40k 5/7 of them collect them, and to be exact that would mean 5 collect them and 2 don't. To common

MadJackMcJack
17-04-2009, 17:24
For Warrior-size creatures, I'd back T5 with a base 4+ save. In return, however, Nids' armywide immunity to Instant Death has to go. Nids got that rule in the first place so Warriors wouldn't be insta-popped by krak missiles and lascannons, but if they were T5, that wouldn't be an issue and the ID-immunity could be dropped.


Oh hell yes. It'd stop all the arguing about the wording of the rule, even more so since there are now a fair few attacks that cause Instant Death without actually having a Strength value.

Oguleth
17-04-2009, 17:34
Craftworld Eldar. Most of those lists had some incredibly annoying aspects on an already somewhat annoying basic codex; thankfully it's just a bad memory now.

Squallish
17-04-2009, 17:41
I dislike playing against Orks and (soon to be) Imperial Guard. The number of bodies and hard-to-fully-kill targets.. added to the amount of TIME it takes to actually move/shoot 100+ men gets annoying very fast.

I have actually lost tourney matches due to delay tactics because god forbid I do ONE action (Tank Shock an Objective) on one turn to make it a draw!

Perhaps I haven't adapted, but with specialist Eldar, it's difficult to make a list that can tackle 180+ Boyz in one match and the 6 LR Chaos lists the next.

unclejimbo827
17-04-2009, 18:21
I don't enjoy playing necrons as much as other armies. You beat every necron army the same way - shoot the warriors until phaseout.
Eldar are the most frustrating.

Everything you can do Eldar do better, while not sucking in other departments. Master strategist army my ***

Tau have -no- answer for Eldar what so ever because Eldar are better at shooting, assault, and they are much faster. And a shooty Eldar army isn't -total pants- in assault like -any- Tau list is. We sacrifice an entire phase of the game to get mediocre shooting... what do Eldar do? Be better by default period.

bawwwww

petpetpetpet
17-04-2009, 18:27
ELDAR ELDAR ELDAR ELDAR

They're supposed to be a fragile race that takes skill and you can win with enough skill, they are anything but. Possibly have the toughest units in the game and they're so damn effective.

I hate Eldar so much.


For Warrior-size creatures, I'd back T5 with a base 4+ save. In return, however, Nids' armywide immunity to Instant Death has to go. Nids got that rule in the first place so Warriors wouldn't be insta-popped by krak missiles and lascannons, but if they were T5, that wouldn't be an issue and the ID-immunity could be dropped.
Works for me

As a Nids player for years I think making them toughness 5 would make them too good. The problem is Synapse makes everything within 12" immune to instant death, imo that's where the probelm lies.

Pet

mr_purple_9
17-04-2009, 20:52
With me it's Tau.

During 3rd ed I designed a DA army with heavy firepower and tanks that could take on all comers.
But when the Tau were introduced my friend with less skill than I have either beat me or we drew every game.

Since then I' have been trying to get the combination right between heave firepower with enough assault and have so far failed. Tau are therefore annoying for that reason plus I'm always worried that my not so great assault units will have get shredded before they can engage them.

But I suppose it is one of the reasons why I play the game and I WILL get it right :)

dal9ll
17-04-2009, 21:27
Hmmm it seems like Eldar is on the majority of peoples' shhit list at the moment. Doesnt surprise me at all considering their Codex.

SirSnipes
17-04-2009, 21:43
marines

im sick of em

The_Outsider
17-04-2009, 22:03
Tau.

Why? No way should an army even exist that basically ignores an entire phase of the game - not to mention I am entirely fed up with tau player's listening to the frankly terrible advice given out on the internet.

Kroot are the second most important unit in the tau list right now (and have been for a while, but 5th really upped their value).

LonelyPath
17-04-2009, 22:13
Nid swarm armies, they're everywhere, I swear there are even rippers lurking in my ammo packs! Hundreds of blighters coming from all directions. Nidzilla I'm not to fussed with, it;s those darned swarm armies.

Ultra Smurfs, nothing against vanilla SM armies, but the Smurfs are everywhere, I went to a club night where 5 people had smurf armies. I'd like to see more variation out there, or at least people willing to paint a SM something other than blue, lol.

CSM, or at least plaguemarines, I've always hated that FNP rule.

Static armies in general, where they deploy and not move a millimetre all battle. I don't mind this with some armies like IG where alot of forces are revolved around this notion, but some armies like SW really should be moving about, not standing there waiting for me to come to them...

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 22:30
Tau.

Why? No way should an army even exist that basically ignores an entire phase of the game - not to mention I am entirely fed up with tau player's listening to the frankly terrible advice given out on the internet.

Kroot are the second most important unit in the tau list right now (and have been for a while, but 5th really upped their value).

What about guard? They have even less moving units.

The_Outsider
17-04-2009, 22:34
What about guard? They have even less moving units.

Guard are one of the top 3 armies where movement is absolutely crucial for success.

Besides, I was referring to the assault phase more than the movement phase.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 22:43
Guard are one of the top 3 armies where movement is absolutely crucial for success.

Besides, I was referring to the assault phase more than the movement phase.

I've never seen them moving. not even mechanized infantry platoons.

The_Outsider
17-04-2009, 22:52
I've never seen them moving. not even mechanized infantry platoons.

Then your opponents are doing it wrong - even in the old guard list getting movement out of platoons with covering fire is crucial to actually winning games.

Gunlines haven't worked since 3rd ed.

FunkyRatDemon
17-04-2009, 23:02
3rd
I hated playing against Blood Angels

4th
Eldar were overpowered
CSM Codex 3.5...

5th
Orks can field so many models and with cover just don't seem to die enough...

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 23:03
Then your opponents are doing it wrong - even in the old guard list getting movement out of platoons with covering fire is crucial to actually winning games.

Gunlines haven't worked since 3rd ed.

Well I have to say i slaughtered most of them mercilessly, but then again the players ive been up against back then probably wouldnt even have stood a chance with the proper strategy. As for the mechanized gunline: They took me out. The only thing left standing were a few wounds full of monstrous creatures in the end.

What does a Guard Army need to move for, that a tau army doesn't?

The_Outsider
17-04-2009, 23:12
What does a Guard Army need to move for, that a tau army doesn't?

I don't know why you are focusing so much on the mvoement phase when I A) didn't mention movement and B ) even said in a subsequent post I meant assault.

However, to answer your question: Tau special weapons are mounted on crisis suits almost exclusively - given that crisis suits are a stable firing platform they can fully utilise the medium range most special weapons have while remaining fairly protected via a good armour save and JSJ.

Guard have neither luxuries, therefore they have to mobilise their special weapons and use careful movement to block off LOS to both maximise potential from their own weapons as well as cutting down return fire (as obviously a guardsmen is more likely to die to more weaposn than a crisis suit).

Additionally, guard can get more special weapons over more squads, so they can spread their fire if needed or help support each other (which movement is the critical factor of) without being a huge and obvious target. Kill a crisis team and tau have lost a good chunk of their special weapons kil la guard squad an another in a chimera can zoom up and take its place.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 23:26
I don't know why you are focusing so much on the mvoement phase when I A) didn't mention movement and B ) even said in a subsequent post I meant assault.
That's easy: Neglective reading. I sometimes just stop reading posts too early.


However, to answer your question: Tau special weapons are mounted on crisis suits almost exclusively - given that crisis suits are a stable firing platform they can fully utilise the medium range most special weapons have while remaining fairly protected via a good armour save and JSJ.

Guard have neither luxuries, therefore they have to mobilise their special weapons and use careful movement to block off LOS to both maximise potential from their own weapons as well as cutting down return fire (as obviously a guardsmen is more likely to die to more weaposn than a crisis suit).

Additionally, guard can get more special weapons over more squads, so they can spread their fire if needed or help support each other (which movement is the critical factor of) without being a huge and obvious target. Kill a crisis team and tau have lost a good chunk of their special weapons kil la guard squad an another in a chimera can zoom up and take its place.

That makes sense. Well when hiding in a armor 12 wall of chimeras they get the vehicle weapons additionally, plasma guns have fairly good range when stationary. Guess that's why the mechanized guard player didn't bother to move a thread.


As for the assault phase... no it doesn't make too much sense either compared to guard. Neither of them really tries to go to HtH. Except for guard fighting tau. 10 guardsmen charging 10 tau will have a good time beating someone up who even has a higher point value than they do.

The_Outsider
17-04-2009, 23:44
As for the assault phase... no it doesn't make too much sense either compared to guard. Neither of them really tries to go to HtH. Except for guard fighting tau. 10 guardsmen charging 10 tau will have a good time beating someone up who even has a higher point value than they do.

I'm a firm believer that ogryns and rough riders are very important for a well rounded guard force - it is such a shame in the current codex they have a rather hefty cost given their role.

Tau have kroot who are - at best - a medicore defense unit as far a CC goes, yet they still play a crucial role within the tau list, they just cannot realistically be used offensively the same way guard CC units can.

In the new guard codex a lot of the CC units have amazing synergy when used in conjunction with your basic guardsmen - they may not beat terminators but ogryns, rough riders and even a little help from straken will hold back any non dedicated CC unit that isn't a marine - even then a tactical squad would have to think twice.

Threeshades
17-04-2009, 23:55
I'm a firm believer that ogryns and rough riders are very important for a well rounded guard force - it is such a shame in the current codex they have a rather hefty cost given their role.

Tau have kroot who are - at best - a medicore defense unit as far a CC goes, yet they still play a crucial role within the tau list, they just cannot realistically be used offensively the same way guard CC units can.

In the new guard codex a lot of the CC units have amazing synergy when used in conjunction with your basic guardsmen - they may not beat terminators but ogryns, rough riders and even a little help from straken will hold back any non dedicated CC unit that isn't a marine - even then a tactical squad would have to think twice.

Okay, I'll give you that. I don't see those very often either though. Ogryns at least are often left out for the sake of the "historical army" flair.

holmcross
18-04-2009, 00:02
Nids.. The numbers are just stupid. Regenerate this , strength 10 that...

ha ha... someone took regeneration.

Tyranids seem like the army that everyone has difficulty beating in casual play, but we routinely get whupped in tournaments by the top tier armies.

Now ask the question, is the the Nid codex that's problematic, or .... something else?

I think it's time to change your tactics/build if 'nids are giving you grief.

Hicks
18-04-2009, 00:04
ha ha... someone took regeneration.

You laugh, but once it wins you a game you just can't take it off your list after that. :p