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LastManOnEarth
18-04-2009, 11:44
I'm curious if there is any prevailing etiquette for choosing/writing a roster in a friendly pick up game?

I've started playing again recently and have been trying out various local gaming groups at stores. After asking for or being asked for a game and agreeing on a points value, one of two things tend to happen. In some cases, the other player has a roster more or less ready, which they might tweak up or down in points to match.

Other times, though, it seems that the other player sits down and hand-crafts a list designed to hose my army. In an extreme case a guy stopped and asked me how many of such-and-such I had, while writing out his roster.

Personally, I prefer to write my rosters in advance, which means they are not optimized against a particular opponent army, and feel that an opponent writing a custom anti-roster is taking advantage of me and, frankly, being kind of a weenie.

So...how common is it for players to write their rosters once they know their opponent's army and point value? Should I just follow suit? Is it unreasonable to ask upfront for an "all-comers" roster?

LMoE

Spacker
18-04-2009, 11:48
I've never played a game in which I've known the enemy roster beforehand, or the enemy has known mine. We either just agree to play and give no indication at all of which race we'll be using, just a points cost, or we might let each other know which race we're bringing. In vary rare cases we might even agree on a particular unit to be used in each army (such as when I was asked to bring a Warhound as the guys at club had never played against one), but that's as far as it tends to go. This way we never end up playing games where one side is specifically geared up to their enemy, and the armies tend to be quite well rounded.

Dezmord
18-04-2009, 11:50
I usually have my roster, which is an all-comers, ready, but have no problem if my opponent tweaks his army to match my own army. What I don't tolerate is questioning what I'm going to field - I won't tell my opponent what my army consists while he is writing his roster.

weirdo2590
18-04-2009, 11:56
The trick to beating those people who tailor to your army is to use an unexpected build. I play shooty blood angels myself ^^

Personaly I have a pre-written list and most people do the same, though most people in my store ask if you're using tanks or not and if not they swap their anti tank out of their list. Seems fair as both players do it.

EVIL INC
18-04-2009, 12:04
I like to have a set of lists at a variety of points values. Some of them all rounders while others dedicated towards certain army "types".
For the most part, I just use an all rounder but if I know my opponant is one of those tailoring types, I will pull out a tailored one of my own to match. If they go to the point of asking me how many of what models I have, I will either A. not play them or B. lie to them (and take one of my tailored lists) and when they complain that I dont have what I told them I had, explain to them how thier spy was caught and tortured to tell me what he had instead.
But always try to have a list ready, it wastes everyone's time when you have to sit and wait for someone to make up a list.

edward3h
18-04-2009, 12:15
I tend to arrange my games beforehand, at least to the level of how many points, and which army. I have been tweaking my (Sisters) list by including either more flamers or more meltas, but it seems like the more meltas variant is generally useful so I will probably be sticking with that in future.

On the occasions where I've had a pickup game at the club I tend to just look through my old army list printouts until I find one of the right points value.

I did play a tailored list a few weeks ago but the circumstances were it was against a guy who gave me a pasting in a previous game, and I told him beforehand I would be tailoring my list, and I didn't ask what was in his army - just made some guesses based on what he'd mentioned on the club forum.

If someone asks what's in my army while writing up their list, I'm not going to tell them - that's going too far.

lonepilgrim
18-04-2009, 12:28
The norm where I play is that people bring lists prepared in advance and make no changes no matter who they're playing. Sometimes we arrange a game in advance and then the list can be built specifically for an opponent.

As long as everyone knows what the arrangement is, it doesn't matter.

Marshal Augustine
18-04-2009, 12:33
I have always taken one list. I switch units here and there only to spice things up, AKA when I haven't used said unit in my collection for a while for example. I know some people who have various "lists" that they will pull when they play different people I don't think that should be the way that it should be done.
"what I am taking" I have never run into someone that would stoop so low... I like the spy thing :D

Kaihlik
18-04-2009, 12:52
Asking what your opponent has is in his list is just stupid. You are under no obligation to let him know anything like that. If someone asks you about that just tell him he will find out when the game starts.

I personally have a few lists that I use repeatedly so if my opponents wanted to they could gear their list to fight me but luckily the peoply I generally play against do the same thing as me.

the1stpip
18-04-2009, 14:06
I have never considered tailoring my army list, and I don't think any of my opponents have either.

blackroyal
18-04-2009, 15:14
...when they complain that I dont have what I told them I had, explain to them how thier spy was caught and tortured to tell me what he had instead.
This I like.


But always try to have a list ready, it wastes everyone's time when you have to sit and wait for someone to make up a list.
Indeed, it is best to have a pre-made all comers list. You can even make 2-3 to cover the most common points levels.

Aegius
18-04-2009, 15:14
I used to tailor my list to my opponent, but we were finding out that it was more a game of paper, scissors stone than 40k. Now I field pretty much the same list every game, just slightly tailoring it based on game performance. This tailoring is on my behalf and doesn't take into account what I'm facing, more of a how my new unit performed in comparison to the rest of my units.

Sarigar
18-04-2009, 15:18
I've had this happen to me once while I was visiting a GW store. I have to say it wasn't a lot of fun with my all comers list vs. a tailored list.

In general, I bring premade lists for various point values simply to speed up the game. I've seen some folks spend nearly 30 minutes writing a list before even starting a game.

Reaver83
18-04-2009, 15:22
I have a 1.5, 1.75 and 2K all comers list in my case every time i go to the store.

Hicks
18-04-2009, 15:33
We usually agree on what codex we'll be using, but that's about it. If I know I'm playing against someone who WILL heavily tailor his list, I just don't tell him what army I'll be bringing.

Grand Master Raziel
18-04-2009, 16:03
I think list-tailoring is a little fishy. If you absolutely have to do it, carry a bunch of lists prepped in advance in a little 3-ring binder. At least it won't be quite so obvious that way, and you can get right to game. If I ever had an opponent sit down to write his list to play against me, then start asking me for specific information about my list, I'd just go looking for someone else to play.

Now, if one is an Eldar player, you can have a lot of fun with list-tailors. When one of these guys hears "Eldar", he's going to figure on stocking up on heavy bolters and the like. You could then plonk down a list full of Striking Scorpions, Guardian Jetbikes, Wraithguard, Warp Spiders, and Dark Reapers - all with 3+ saves. Oops.

boogle
18-04-2009, 16:11
I have specific list for specific points costs, usually 1000, 1500, 1750 and 2000 points, i keep the core stuff from the 1000 point list in each list, and add stuff i like to each individual list, i never tailor my lists

Corn Berserker
18-04-2009, 16:11
If they ask you questions either don't tell them or lie. If they are making last mi ute changes based on what you are taking they deserve to have a surprise when you place your army on the table.

I use a pretty all round list most of the time with my CSMs. My opponents know I'll have 3x 8 man sections with a heavy bolter, plasma weapon and champion with CCW, 3 oblits and a mean close combat element with a tooled up lord and I'll take a different special unit depending on my mood, not the enemy I'm playing.

Ddraiglais
18-04-2009, 17:36
I'll change my list and/or army depending on how I feel. As far as customizing my list for a specific army goes, I might drop a unit in favor of another. To me that makes sense. If a commander knows he's fighting Orks, he'll bring X. Writing a new list is time consuming and stupid, but dropping some possessed for the same amount of termies isn't a bad thing IMO.

Now asking what specific units are in someone's army is just absurd. You should take other peoples' advice and lie.

505
18-04-2009, 17:56
personally I hate waiting for someone to sit down and right a list to go against my army it takes 20-25 min to an hour of good gameing time while I sit and wait for him

me I carry 3 lists all the time and roll a dice and that's the list I go with I carry a notebook with 3 500, 1000, 1500 ,2000 lists just for that case.

but I always come ready. of course I only get 1 or 2 games every 2-3 months so I want to squeeze every last bit of gaming in as I can

Latro_
18-04-2009, 18:08
I have a few list variations for my death guard now, but it does not really swing the army in any direction to take on a specific enemy, just moreso to break the bordom of using the same army game in game out.

I think gearing your army before a game to take on someone elses is dodgy as hell. If they do it and you have lots of armies (who doesent eh? hehe) take one which is the polar oposite to each other.

like if my local gaming store had a dude doing this week in week out i'd take my death guard and orks and say 'hey its a friendly game i'v got two armies with me, i'll roll a d6 before we deploy to see which one i use ok?'

Whats he gonna say 'er no cus i um bearded up my army to kill um orks err'

:)

Marshal Sinclair
18-04-2009, 18:09
I write very expanded rosters normally, including points, equipment, slot (troops, elites, core, special etc), special rules (explaining them too so I can reference in a game, as can my opponent), and stats. Means I can quickly flick through my roster and see exactly what something is. Of course, it can take an hour or two to hand write one, if you don't know exactly what you want in your army!

BuFFo
18-04-2009, 18:10
Sup Skrag,

I make my list beforehand at home.

If a stranger ask me what army I am fielding before a game, I just say, "It could be Marines, Dark Eldar, IG or Tau. You'll see during deployment". Of course, you need to keep your army hidden in a carrying case for this to work.

If its a friend of mine, I let him or her adjust their list against my army as much as they want. I trust them and we have fun regardless.

Grindgodgrind
18-04-2009, 18:18
I've never tailored an army list before. I try and tailor my tactics, not my army composition...

Charistoph
18-04-2009, 18:57
I just started building a 40K army, and it's Tau.

Not much quick tailoring I can do there with the exception of my Crisis Suits, but there can be some nasty tailoring there... ;)

marv335
18-04-2009, 19:01
I have a folder of army lists in my army case.
I'll use whichever one appeals to me at that particular moment.
one army may be Nob heavy, one is full of stormboys, another is a deathskull lootin' krew full of burnas, lootas and looted wagons.
What I take depends entirely on the mood I'm in, not who or what I'm facing.

isaac
18-04-2009, 19:04
I only tailor if I know the opponent and his army well and vice versa. If I plan to bring something new to the table, I tell him and vice versa. But to tailor without giving your opponent the chance to? Not that nice. Especially if you ask what they are fielding, I can understand army tailoring to a bit (prepare your force to respond well to what they are going to face), but give your opponent the chance too.

Calibrate
18-04-2009, 19:19
I have general purpose 1200 pt and 1500 pt lists, and I try to analyze each units performance after each game to make adjustments to their upgrades.

I'm basically trying to run the same list, with minor adjustments each game, to find that winning combination that can take on every army.

505
18-04-2009, 22:41
I played a known taylorer once and so while he was making his list I was preping my army placed 3 Leman russes and a few hellhounds on the ready table. when it was time to play I played my all infantry list. :D he was pissed all his lascanons for t3 guard

if there is a before arranged game were list tayloring is oked then I say fine but other then that its ussually frowned upon

gojira316
18-04-2009, 22:50
If your opponent in a pick up game is building a list to counter yours just lie. Sure they'll be upset but more importantly they'll feel stupid. And that's the sweetest victory of all.

starlight
18-04-2009, 23:00
Pickup games - I pull out one of my pre-made, all comers lists.


Heck, pretty much anything aside from scripted/narrative scenarios that require specific lists are played with my pre-made, all comers lists. :)

Thud
18-04-2009, 23:08
I always use all-comers lists. I don't care much for tailoring against specific opponents, I'd rather use every game to get a better hang of my standard list. :)

The_Outsider
18-04-2009, 23:26
List tailoring (or at least, when only one player does it) angers me to the very core of my being - it is such a cheap way of giving yourself an advantage with no associated disadvantage, therefore it is morel ikely to not lead to an even game.

I have an all comer's list as I am a firm believer that skill and expereicne trump counter lists - good players don't need to tailor so the only ones who do tailor are people out to have as much advantage over their opponent as possible.

Ironically i've yet to turn down a game agaisnt people hwo have tailored against me - because I have (so far) beaten them all it merely proves my belief - if you are good you wouldn't need to tailor and they (my opponent) were not good enough so tailoring didn't save them.

megatrons2nd
19-04-2009, 01:07
My list's(1500, 1750 and 2000) have only been changed three times. The first time was when the army fared very poorly. The second time was the codex(Tau) change, which really only adjusted a couple units and added the Vespid. The third change was after 5th edition came out. The paper trail on the list changes are extensive due to different combination's that I thought about using but chose not to.

Gensuke626
19-04-2009, 01:17
Asking what your opponent has is in his list is just stupid. You are under no obligation to let him know anything like that. If someone asks you about that just tell him he will find out when the game starts.

I personally have a few lists that I use repeatedly so if my opponents wanted to they could gear their list to fight me but luckily the peoply I generally play against do the same thing as me.

Page 92 of the Core Rules Partially Disagrees with you. You are under no obligation to disclose your list to the enemy, but it it highly recommended by the people who wrote the game that you allow your opponent to look at your army list and inform him who is in what transport.

Imperius
19-04-2009, 01:56
Sadly I very rarely actually go to a GW and play. My local club is ridden with 'snotlings' and they are either told by the staff what to do, or have UBAR SPAM like Nob Bikers.

QWhen I do, I always have a printed roster for 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, no tailoring.

Metaphorazine
19-04-2009, 08:01
Page 92 of the Core Rules Partially Disagrees with you. You are under no obligation to disclose your list to the enemy, but it it highly recommended by the people who wrote the game that you allow your opponent to look at your army list and inform him who is in what transport.

Yeah, that's just before you begin playing. Not so they can write a list thoroughly designed to thrash your list.