View Full Version : [WotR] 2k points Mordor (Minas Morgul)

18-04-2009, 16:47
Leader: Winged Nazgul (Witch King)
Ringwraith (Dark Martial)
Ringwraith (Khamul)
Ringwraith (Betrayer)

6 companies of Orcs, great weapons, cap & stb, w/ Khamul
4 companies of Morannon Orcs, shields, cap & stb
4 companies of Morannon Orcs, shields, cap & stb
2 companies of Orcs, bows
4 companies of Warg Riders, shields, stb, w/ Gothmog

1 company of Morgul Stalkers
1 Troll
1 Siege Bow

4 companies of Morgul Knights, cap & stb, w/ Betrayer
2 companies of Black Numenorians, cap & stb, w/ Dark Martial

Fates: haunted landscape & Evil Reputation (witch king)

Tactics should be pretty straight forward. Use the Witch King to drive the army forward on the first turn. Use the dark martial's command to keep the morannons in line. Smash face with orcs & flank charge with troll and cavalry. Witch king joins the flanking force or hunts enemy war machines, cavalry, or heroes as necessary. The ranged elements and Morgul Stalkers are there to annoy & distract. Use the magic of the Nazgul to best advantage possible.

Fluff-wise, I'd like some spirit units in there, but I'm not sure what to replace with them. I could trade a troll for a shade, but my fight isn't that bad, so I worry I'd only be getting in my own way.

Any general advice on how to improve the list, whether in gameplay or fluff?

Nu Fenix
18-04-2009, 18:43
Well, as you are playing a 2000 point list, you can only have one Fate. With a 2001-3000 point list then you can take a second Fate in your army, so one of them will have to go.

Paying 325 points for the Witch King on a Fellbeast is alot of points to move your army faster and slow theirs down. Whilst his combat stats are better then a normal Ringwraith, I feel he is too expensive for what you get, when the abilities of other Ringwraiths may be more beneficial for you.

Be careful of The Betrayer, or indeed any other Epic Hero joining the Morgul Knights, as only 5 of them have to die to kill The Betrayer, as he won't be in the Command Company, and so will be slightly easier to wipe out. Gothmog will have the same issue with Wargs, where he must go in another Company, and so risks being killed more quickly then he should. Gothmog [and The Betrayer] might be more useful with one of the Morannon Orc units, where they can live longer, and share their abilities more greatly. Due to Gothmog acting as an Army Banner, you may not need a Captain in the Wargs, due to their fragile nature, though that is down to personal opinion.

Whilst I can imagine that with Ambush and Enchanted Cloaks the Morgul Stalkers would be annoiing, since only four of them need to die and they have a Defence of 4, it may not be difficult for them to be wiped out.

I'm of mixed opinion on the Siege Bow, only because I think just one isn't going to be useful or get the job done. A second, or even a third, increases your chances of getting the hits and wiping out whatever Formation they were targetting.

I would go with your feeling against taking a Shade, as between the boosted Fight from your Epic Heroes, as well as the decent Fight on your allied units, it may not hinder your opponent much, and end up being less useful then the Troll.

19-04-2009, 16:22
Whoops! Thanks for calling out the Fate's limit. With only one, I'll probably take either Silent Watcher or Haunted Landscape (to represent specters) for fluff reasons, although evil reputation, cursed armor, and tormented steeds are all still tempting.

As for the Witch King - I'm not dropping him. I'm fielding the Witch King. It's a Minas Morgul army, I'd feel pretty bad if I didn't. I'm open to suggestions on other ways he could be set up - I've been considering dropping the winged nazgul and all three of the ringwraiths in order to field the 9 in legendary formation form. I'd have to move Gothmog back, probably into the big orc block, but you were recommending taking him out of the warg riders, anyway. I'd be left with 200 points to work with. It's tempting, though the winged nazgul is a very nice model.

gtg, will consider the rest later.

Avatar of the Eldar
19-04-2009, 17:03
As for the Witch King - I'm not dropping him. I'm fielding the Witch King. It's a Minas Morgul army, I'd feel pretty bad if I didn't. I'm open to suggestions on other ways he could be set up - I've been considering dropping the winged nazgul and all three of the ringwraiths in order to field the 9 in legendary formation form. .

Well, don't drop him - certainly not for pure game mechanics consideration. If it were me, I'd go the other way - drop 2 of the other Nazgul (5 major hitters feels like too may) and add more troops/legendary formations. I like to see Mordor lists swarmy, not elite. For that reason I'm not an advocate of "Nine Abroad" except for specifically designed scenarios. I personally wouldn't want to see it in a pick up game, unless I had a White Council list handy.

20-04-2009, 01:58
woah, its only until you see an orc list written down, that you realise just how many models you can fit in a 2000 point game.

good job. having fun painting though?

20-04-2009, 14:00
So far, yeah. It is a lot of guys though, and I will eventually get tired of it, which is why, no matter what set up I go with, it's probably going to be heavy on epics, legendaries, elites, and monsters. I could see expanding the unit of 48 orcs up to 72, but I don't see myself adding an entire new formation of them.

Anyway, the rest of Fenix's comments:

The idea behind the stalkers was primarily to annoy by taking up occupied terrain, but with the fragility of a single company formation, you're right that they might not even constitute an annoyance. Would two companies be better enough to be useful? I'd like to field them (fluff again), but I'm not sure what the right use for them is, or even if there is one. If not, well I'm not as attached to them as I am to the Witch King.

More or none with the seige bow? I could see that. And no shade... sigh. What do you think of castellans? Or a formation of Barrow Wights? I'd like to try and squeeze something ethereal in here, I'm just not sure what.

Avatar: I always pictured Minas Morgul as being somewhat more elite then other mordor armies, and there are only so many orcs I can paint. I could see filling out the orcs to 9 companies strong, and maybe adding a company to the orc archers, but not much more then that in the orc department.

Also, do you think Mordor is mechanically better as a horde list, or is that just your preferred aesthetic for them? I care about fluff and theme, but I also like to win (occasionally), and my most regular opponent is a min-maxer by nature. The nine abroad does let me get all of the ringwraiths into my army, which is good for fluff, as they all lived in Minas Morgul. Are you advising against it because you think it's a poor tactical move, or too cheesy, or because you just don't like them? I haven't seen them in action - if they're that broken I'll probably avoid them.

Thanks everyone for the advice so far! I work out a couple variant lists based on your suggestions!

Nu Fenix
20-04-2009, 18:46
I think for the Morgul Stalkers, it depends how much they will be supporting others, as I can see them being quite lethal if they can get into a flank whilst one of your main units goes into the front.
As such, a second company would make them much more viable in my mind. Then depending on how much they do for you, could be made to have a third and change from just harassing to outright lethal with a pincer attack.

For the Siege Bow, in my limited amount of games played and observed, shooting isn't as powerful or influential when compared to other GW games. I would drop it and use the points towards something more useful.

The Shade isn't completely useless, I just wanted to make sure you realise that whilst it has some benefits, they might not be useful against all the armies out there. Since you seemed more towards not taking one then having one, thats why I said you should go with your instinct. If you do decide to get one, it can still be strong, although keep it near your Orcs and away from your high Fight Formations, or you could make them die faster.

Castellans of Dol Guldor and Court of the Fallen King [Barrow Wights] both interest me, although I see them doing very different jobs.
Castellans are much harder to shift, due to their higher statline, and best for elite R1 Formations, since they still need to grind like everyone else. Just make sure they don't risk getting overwhelmed, because of the high cost of them.
The Court are better against Cavalry or other R2 Formations, since they kill them in one hit instead of two. The downside is they are easier to kill, due to a weaker statline. Their own Resilience of 2 can make it easy to forget how much they still can crumble from weight of attacks back.

In regards to your comments towards Avatar, I feel that they are designed to work best as a horde army. Whilst they do have some elite options available to them, they wouldn't be strong enough on their own. Fallen Realms and Isengard are better at requiring a smaller horde to work [though they can be fielded as a horde], whilst having various elite options at their disposal.

20-04-2009, 20:03
Now, remember that Gothmog count as an Army Standard bearer... I would place him in lead of your Orc horde in the center, flanked by both Morannon formation. i would also buff up the Orc horde to nine companies and get rid of the captain, since Gothmog will lead it anyway. This will allow all your units in the center to do a Heroic Charge for one Might point, pretty useful when you smash into the enemy line.

I think that using Gothmog in a Warg unit will be a waste of resources, just give them a captain, they are just cannon fodder anyway. Good for harassment, nothing else.

All Ringwraiths go to the big Orc horde as well since their abilities will make that unit and surrounding units just scary. I would like to see the face on my opponent when all that magic and fighting power obliterate their center forces. :)

Sure you will draw allot of attention to that particular part of the army, but I think it could be one interesting thing to pull of once in a while just to have fun...