PDA

View Full Version : Potential new Warhammer fantasy player



Sons of Alaitoc v.2
19-04-2009, 20:23
I collect Eldar, Orks, and Space Marine in W40k, and I am finally considering the transition to fantasy, I have narrowed the choices down to:

Skaven
Lizardmen
Daemons of Chaos
Wood Elves
Warriors of Chaos

What would you suggest is the best for me to collect? Please help

MTUCache
19-04-2009, 20:31
1.) Which models do you like the best?
2.) Which phases of the WHFB game do you think you'll enjoy (or not enjoy)?
3.) What type of army do you envision yourself really enjoying being the general of (shooting/fast/rock-hard/etc/etc)??

There's usually at least a handful of different armies (or builds of armies) that will suit peoples' play-styles or preferred tactics, but unless the army itself really inspires you, you'll probably never finish assembling it (let alone paint it).

Between Lizards, Skaven, Chaos, and Wood Elves you've basically got every different type of army and play-style accessible to you. What is it that drew you to these armies in particular? Just the models? Or the background/fluff around them?

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
19-04-2009, 20:35
I don't know too much about the fluff, just the basic outline, I have mainly been going by looks, not sure what style I want, how much of an impact does magic make on a Warhammer game?

I also want something different from the W40k armies I collect, so maybe Wood Elves isn't the best decision

isidril93
19-04-2009, 20:51
lizzies and choas seem good choices right now

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
19-04-2009, 20:53
What sort of playing style do each of those armies have? What are their strengths/weaknesses?

swarmofseals
19-04-2009, 20:58
I would recommend against Skaven if you want to start now as they will be getting a new army book in a few months. If you can stand to wait, then Skaven would be a fine choice. Presumably they will continue to be a swarm army that relies on SCR with potential for a lot of shootyness.

Lizardmen have generally hard troops and some nice big monsters. They can shoot some, but are more of an infantry, monsters, and magic kind of force. They are also decently mobile.

DoC... I wouldn't play them. I love the models but you will have a hard time making a balanced list that is fun to play against. If you REALLY love daemons, then by all means go for it. But if there are other armies that you like just as well, I wouldn't pick them.

Chaos Mortals - A solid army that some feel is kinda one dimensional. They have very good cavalry and strong magic but almost no shooting. You can get tempted to pour lots of points into infantry blocks, but this can be a mistake as they are generally slow and easy to avoid.

Wood Elves - The ultimate in maneuverability. They are generally fragile but hit pretty hard and have some tough units. They have a lot of skirmishers and have good shooting as well, although they lack war machines. If you want an army that uses terrain and positioning to the maximum, then wood elves are a good choice. Their magic is fairly weak, however.

Rubicon
19-04-2009, 21:11
i've suggested Lizardmen. Wood Elves, Daemons and Warriors are all mono-dimensional armies (in the case of WoC) or break quite a fe of the standard rules of warhammer (daemons and their various immunities, Wood Elves and their reliance on skirmishers)

Of the remaining 2, Skaven are due an update soon and lizzies have just had theirs, so i'd go Lizzies

Rolo Ramone
19-04-2009, 21:17
If you are a W40K player, maybe you feel comfortable playing with wood elves.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
19-04-2009, 21:18
I would recommend against Skaven if you want to start now as they will be getting a new army book in a few months. If you can stand to wait, then Skaven would be a fine choice.

I am not racing to start, I still need to finish off my 40k armies first.


If you are a W40K player, maybe you feel comfortable playing with wood elves.

I would like to try something different, I don't want to have the same every single time

Also I have friends who collect High Elves, Orcs & Goblins, Ogre Kingdom, Tomb Kings, and Dwarves, what army would be best to tackle these forces?

Mozzamanx
19-04-2009, 21:24
Lizards are an excellent starting point, since they are tough but still use the core rules. Practising with Vampires will give you some experience, but you'll have no experience with psychology, morale or shooting, for example.

It also helps that the rules are softened, so a bad decision won't cost the game. Cold-Blooded and awesome stats mean that even a horrible mistake won't necessarily kill you, and will provide plenty of time to recover.
You also get to play with all 4 phases, and can still specialise into one if you want. Skinks and Cold Ones get movement, some of the best magic in the game, Razordons and blowpipes for shooting, and rock-hard combat monsters.

Note- I don't even collect Lizards, this is an honest opinion unblemished by Lizard fandom.

Quetzl
19-04-2009, 21:29
I voted Lizardmen for a couple of reasons, the first being that they're very solid for a new player to learn how to play with. The second being that they've just got a new book alongside some great new mini's so that's them pretty much sold!

Anyways, obviously choose what you like best. You obviously need to take into account that the Skaven will be being redone soon so it may be a bad choice to purchase existing models for them to be undone in a couple of months - however it may be a good choice if you purchase the pieces that aren't being redone and then build an army when the new book is released.

The other 3 are also good, Warriors of Chaos would be my next choice as they're quite new and can hit hard if used properly. Hope that helps :)

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
19-04-2009, 21:48
I have decided either Skaven or Lizardmen, Daemons of Chaos as a small possibility, and Wood Elves either smaller, definately not WoC

Dexter099
19-04-2009, 21:54
So now it's down to Warriors and Lizards I'm guessing?

Lizardmen and Warriors of Chaos are both very multi-dimensional armies who are fairly similar to each other.

The Warriors of Chaos's two strengths are magic and close combat. Their general categories of units can be broken up into:

Marauders- Essentially the lighter armored, cheap humans with good, strong stats and different weapon options. They can be equipped to suit many different roles, but they bring numbers to a chaos army. Their warhounds and marauder cavalry are essential to a Chaos army, as they march block and harass. The marauder cavalry can have thrown weapons, and are good fighters, if light armored like all other light cavalry.

Warriors- Chaos Cavalry is the second best in the game, their warriors of chaos are second to almost nothing, and the chosen will kill anything that crosses their path.

Monsters- All sorts of monsters with different equipment options. Dragons, Giants, Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths, Trolls, and Ogres, as well as other types of mounts.

War Machines and miscellaneous- from war altars to the helcannon, a very storng piece of artillery that can also eat the enemies' troops and win combats by itself, or in support. Also have the best chariots in game.

Their sorcerors have great magic and magic items, some of the best in the game, though they are expensive. Chaos Lords are second to no other Lord Choice in the game save Greater Demons, but Greater Demons are pretty unbalanced in the most unbalanced army right now, and even they can be taken down by a Lord on a Dragon.

Warriors also are pretty strong in the leadership department thanks to the Will of Chaos and Mark of Slaanesh and Khorne. Almost all of their untis can be marked, giving them bonuses, saves, or abilities.

Lizards-

Saurus Warirors are somewhat worse than the Chaos Warriors, but will beat up most troop types. They have lots of Big Monsters just like the warriors. Their skinks are movemnt 6 skirmishers running around with poisoned blowpipes that march block lots of stuff.

The Lizardmen have no fast cav, and their heavy cavalry is ok, but they lack any group weaknesses.

However, individually, they are weak in one area. SKinks have good WS, I and Movement, but have low T, average Ld, and mediocre sS.

Saurus creatures as well as the rest of the lizardy guys have good S, T, Ld, and A, but have lower M, I, and WS.

Lizardman leadership is good all around, except for the Skinks.

Fairly similar armies, Lizarmen don't much long range shooting, but they have more close range than the warriors, their magic can be good or mediocre depending on what you take for an HQ. Saurus can have sacred spawnings, giving one or so units a bonus or two.

ninja'd. I don't know why many people don't like WoC. I guess that's because WoC is a rare army that's played, except some inexperienced people with WoC who started this November when they came out. That's too bad, I like WoC and have had a lot of experience with them.

Just wondering, but how is WoC one-dimensional?

O&G'sRule
19-04-2009, 22:27
Read the books, see which one appeals to you. I find they all appeal which is why I have a starter set for just about all of them but its still the best way

Johnnyfrej
20-04-2009, 04:55
I'd recommend Imperial Guard, as their new book comes out in a few weeks. Would be a lot more fun than starting some ol' Fantasy army.

Staurikosaurus
20-04-2009, 08:01
That wasn't one of the options Johnnyfrej, you fail. Please hang up and try again.

I'd suggest going with the army who's models you like the best. In terms of playstyle Sons of Alaitoc v.2, compared to the armies you have for 40K you seem to like faster moving armies. As a result I'd suggest Wood Elves (fast but fragile) or Lizardmen (fast but fragile with a rock hard centre).

However, if you're really not sure that you'll enjoy playing Fantasy (and man I hate saying this) start daemons so that you can use them in both 40K and Fantasy. Put them on round bases and make movement trays to put them in.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
20-04-2009, 10:03
So now it's down to Warriors and Lizards I'm guessing?

I said Skaven and Lizardmen

RaZeR
20-04-2009, 10:26
I think he was writing that as you posted :P

I'd suggest skaven tbh, if only because lizardmen are much more common. Especially if you can wait a bit for the new book etc to come out for skaven :)

However, it's worth considering the painting side of the hobby as well. Skaven tend to be horde armies (quite often 200+ models at 2k points), whereas lizardmen are smaller, usually around the 100 model count, or less. If you're not happy to paint bucketloads of models, probably dont go skaven!

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
20-04-2009, 10:30
I am not fussed either way. When would you think the new Skaven will be released? As I have said previously I am in no hurry to start a new army, and I probably could wait long enough if it is worth it.

O&G'sRule
20-04-2009, 11:46
allegedly around august/september

Lordsaradain
20-04-2009, 14:55
Warriors of Chaos. They have the best looking models, their army book is good but not overpowered like VC or daemons so they will still give you some challange to play with, you won't have to buy a huge amount of models to get a sizable force. (WoC is one of the cheapest armies to collect points/money)

Johnnyfrej
20-04-2009, 15:06
That wasn't one of the options Johnnyfrej, you fail. Please hang up and try again.

Perhaps it is you who is on the wrong dial, because option 6 says "None, please state on post what you suggest and why." Therefore I was not wrong in suggesting the Imperial Guard because I gave the why that the OP asked.

Don't beat yourself up about it Staurikosaurus, nobody is right all the time. ;)

bert n ernie
20-04-2009, 15:18
I play Skaven, but I think I'd have to suggest collecting Lizzies as a first army.
Skaven take ages and ages to paint. They're fun, and I guess I can't really comment on the details of how the army plays in the new book, but i can guess.
I think that the Skaven will provide crutches for new players in terms of their shooting, but that the real players will be moving around large blocks of different infantry.
As it currently stands the Lizzies give you the opportunity to take varied kinds of units (Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Flyers, Cavalry and so on). Currently Skaven really only provide effective Light and Medium Infantry and shooting units.
Don't get me wrong, they are awesome, but they do not allow for varied approaches to lists, and as a new player you will probably want that.
It will make your learning curve difficult.
Lizzies.

Papa JJ
20-04-2009, 15:43
I agree that Lizards could give you a better introduction to WFB than the Skaven. It's all a guess right now with the new book still months away (or so we believe) but I would be shocked if the way the Skaven play changes significantly. I played Skaven for quite some time and feel like the amount of infantry needed and the lack of true cavalry could be a real impediment to getting into a new game system. Lizardmen should be capable of competing vigorously against the armies that you mentioned would be used by your friends, whilst it's too early to know how the Skaven will fare.

- Papa JJ

TheGreatWhiteRat
20-04-2009, 15:57
I'm a Skaven player but I voted Lizardmen. For beginners Lizards make more sense. They are easy to paint, they don't have loads of minis, they have something to do in each phase, and their army list has all the different types of units.

Skaven can be a problem for several reasons first is the model count I never have less than 200 models and I've yet to play a 2000 point game. Another problem I see from the ebay lots is many people use the shooting phase as a crutch because it can be very powerful and the high cost models can bump your point total up. The final problem is many of their units are similar and Skaven have no cavalry or fliers.

Keller
20-04-2009, 18:37
If you do want to go for skaven, I'd advise to start now. Even if they release new models for some units, you will need tons of them! Getting started on Clan-Rats and Slaves could help get a large part of the army done now, so that when the new book and releases come out, you can focus on the fun units and have a great army already established.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
20-04-2009, 20:10
Perhaps it is you who is on the wrong dial, because option 6 says "None, please state on post what you suggest and why." Therefore I was not wrong in suggesting the Imperial Guard because I gave the why that the OP asked.

Don't beat yourself up about it Staurikosaurus, nobody is right all the time. ;)

Maybe, but I think it is pretty obvious that I am talking about fantasy, and fantasy alone, as it is in fantasy general discussion.

But anyway I am not bothered about collecting Imperial Guard anytime soon, maybe after Dark Eldar, if I ever get to that!

Johnnyfrej
20-04-2009, 20:41
Maybe, but I think it is pretty obvious that I am talking about fantasy, and fantasy alone, as it is in fantasy general discussion.

Well, I threw that out there because I believe(personal opinion, I know how touchy the Fantasy purists are, for the record I do have over 5k points of Empire) the Fantasy game is broken atm and I find 40k a much more balanced and rewarding game to play. That said, if you are dead-set on Fantasy I will give some advice.

Out of the 5 you gave, 3 of them have brand new(ish) books that will not be updated for a while (WoC, DoC, Lizzies). Skaven and Wood Elves both have aging books and may be up for a renewal in the immediate future. This could drastically change their make-ups and I don't want to to buy $200+ dollars worth of army just for them to be made obsulete.

Warriors and Lizardmen both have very strong books that allow either very high count hordes (Skinks / Marauders) or elite low-number count armies (Saurus, Stegg / Warrior, Knights). They are both good at either focusing on close combat killiness or magic mayhem.

Daemons are of course the topic of much controversy in Fantasy. Personally, as the owner of a 2k Mono-Khorne daemons army, I will attest they are far from as invincable as people make them out. However, there are builds that really are absurd and will make you ask what the designers were thinking. If you do go this route I would go mono god and avoid the min-maxing for maximum cheesiness.

Skaven is the ultimate horde army. They have some outstanding shooting but almost always have a chance of hurting themselves. They are also the only army that can shoot into CC. I don't know much specifics about Skaven so I will let someone more experienced explain.

Wood Elves are the most 40kish of Fantasy armies. They are also unique (well, they were before deamons) in that the book can field two very different armies. On the one hand you have the elves. They have somewhat expensive units but have excellant shooting and skirmishing abilities. They function very much like Eldar in 40k, because they rely on finesse and synergy between units to be effective (rather than taking some monster unit of death and running in the general direction of the opponent). Then you have the forest spirits. They focus more on terrain movement and hard-as-nails units to blugeon the opponent.

Dexter099
21-04-2009, 02:45
I said Skaven and Lizardmen

I said ninja'd, so I'm guessing you didn't read my post. Oh well.

Let me know when you start Dark Eldar, I'll be glad to help.

Desalbert
21-04-2009, 06:03
I would suggest you wait for Skaven in a few months (and that is what I voted). Finish up your 40k armies, and, when you come back round this way again, in a few, I'm sure you'll find that Skaven will have a shiny new book, new models, new units and so forth, that makes an already really fun and zany army even cooler.... (Note: I do not play Skaven, these are just my guesses...)

Kill-Freedom
21-04-2009, 08:17
Go for VAMPIRE COUNTS

THERE BLOODY AWESOME :D

Charistoph
21-04-2009, 08:22
Better question, what are most people doing in your area, and do you prefer fielding a more unique army or have your army be more common?

With a unique army, you're not jumping on band wagons and avoid a lot of problems there. The problem is, if no one is playing, or the only other player(s) are all a-holes, you get grouped with their stigma.

With a common army, you get the advantage of your fellows experience and can get a lot of good advice quickly.

So go with what your heart tells you, if nothing else, have someone pick for you (or flip a coin, roll a die), and if you aren't satisfied with the results, you have your answer!

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
21-04-2009, 10:38
none of my friends collect any of the five choices, and i do want to be unique