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Sihsboy
21-04-2009, 13:36
Worth the points? Or better off getting another squad of zerks?

Had them for a while and i thought they were the **** when i first got them. but it's been a while now, and i can't quite decide whether or not i like them.

Tennboy
21-04-2009, 13:38
I'd take the tried and true Zerkers over the overpriced possessed.

the-skylord
21-04-2009, 14:09
Possessed are good if used effectivly, stick them in a rhino, a squad of 8-10. Make sure you have other units which the opponent will want to shoot at, this make him split his fire.

Drive the possessed in, then get them into combat.

They dont always work, depend on want the random ability is. Always makes my games a laugh so for me they are worth taking.

Brucopeloso
21-04-2009, 14:52
I'd take the tried and true Zerkers over the overpriced possessed.

Quoted for truth! The CSM codex is blessed with awesome troop choices, possessed just don't cut it in comparison.

aberrant_unc
21-04-2009, 15:34
It is hard to figure out a role for possessed that isn't better performed by another unit in the codex. 8 possessed costs about the same as 10 bezerkers and most of the time the bezerkers will be more effective in combat.

A better comparison might be that 8 bezerkers (typical squad) is only 6.5 possessed, which won't get you far.

Mojaco
21-04-2009, 15:41
Even if bezerkers would be less effective in combat, they're still a scoring unit whereas possessed are not. That's a big downside.

Latro_
21-04-2009, 15:42
It is hard to figure out a role for possessed that isn't better performed by another unit in the codex. 8 possessed costs about the same as 10 bezerkers and most of the time the bezerkers will be more effective in combat.

A better comparison might be that 8 bezerkers (typical squad) is only 6.5 possessed, which won't get you far.

I agree, there is just so much stuff that does their job better and cheaper. Shame because the new models are sooooo sweet.

Darnok
21-04-2009, 15:46
I agree, there is just so much stuff that does their job better and cheaper. Shame because the new models are sooooo sweet.

That's why I use a bunch of Khorne Posessed as Berzerkers. In my army there won't be another unit competing for any of both, so I think it is suitable for "counts as".

Sanctjud
21-04-2009, 15:47
Well, if you are looking at a friendly game: possessed are fine. They are fun and are decent when in a rhino 8-10 and tasked with counter assault.

If you are looking at a competitive game; then the troop choices are where it’s at.

I like possessed and use them in friendly games, they are kings there.
The constant Str 5 is marginally useful as is the 5++ not too flashy.

Scouts is AWESOME when not dawn of war.
Fleet: haven’t rolled it yet, but not overly useful, prob. used the turn after the possessed leave their ride. Issue is Raptors are better at the out of transport movement.
FNP: is always nice, but plague marines would be more efficient.
Furious Charge: Zerkers are efficient… BUT, hitting at str 6 is a unique thing for them, attacking armor and instant killing T3.
Rending: Unique to Chaos, helps with their lack of extra killy, but termies would prob. be better.
Power weapons: this is their loved one to roll. 1/6 but very nice.

Bascially, the possessed at flavor to the list, something refreshing each game, some people like that, others don’t.
To dismiss them so quickly is not the way to approach the hobby IMO.

Bottom Line: it’s not that they suck, it’s that the troops outshine them for points. Possessed have their can of whoop-ass to unleash, it’s just most people don’t like the randomness, and/or don’t know how to maximize their usage.

My 7 Cents.

Obliterati
21-04-2009, 15:48
Agreed with everyone.

Possessed are fine in and of themselves, but compared to other CSM units they just don't cut the mustard.

If we could choose their special ability before deployment, then they'd be epic. But, alas.

The_Outsider
21-04-2009, 18:25
Little known fact: if it isn't a lash prince, a plague marine, a rhino or an obliterator warseer thinks it is crap.

Possessed are fantastic - they do what berzerkers do, only they can handle a much broader range of infantry sized targets (give or take their particular roll on the table) at the cost of being able to barely punch down a dread and perhaps a carnifex.

Possessed are bargain killing machines.

Neftus
21-04-2009, 18:36
That's why I use a bunch of Khorne Posessed as Berzerkers. In my army there won't be another unit competing for any of both, so I think it is suitable for "counts as".

Thats a good idea

MrMojoZ
21-04-2009, 18:48
Little known fact: if it isn't a lash prince, a plague marine, a rhino or an obliterator warseer thinks it is crap.

Possessed are fantastic - they do what berzerkers do, only they can handle a much broader range of infantry sized targets (give or take their particular roll on the table) at the cost of being able to barely punch down a dread and perhaps a carnifex.

Possessed are bargain killing machines.

The randomness you mentioned is exactly why they aren't anywhere close to being a bargin.

Latro_
21-04-2009, 19:31
Little known fact: if it isn't a lash prince, a plague marine, a rhino or an obliterator warseer thinks it is crap.

Possessed are fantastic - they do what berzerkers do, only they can handle a much broader range of infantry sized targets (give or take their particular roll on the table) at the cost of being able to barely punch down a dread and perhaps a carnifex.

Possessed are bargain killing machines.

They're not crap, but they sure as well aint good.

They are elites not troops, so cannot claim objectives like bezerkers or yes the much loved and close to my heart plague marines

They cost 5 pts more than a bezerker and have one less attack and no bolt pistol.

Their redeeming feature is s5 base and a 5inv save. Well bezerkers get s5 on the charge anyway and more importantly have I5 too... which is imo a world away better when you consider running large units down after beating them in combat.

They have no access to a power fist which is again a huge kick in the face, most players would agree in assault based marine units a fist is almost mandatory. unless you get the 1 in 6 chance of rending, an enemy dread, wraithlord, whatever is gonna bitchslap that unit unless its supported by something good... like daemon prince :) but then you have 400ish pts invested in dealing with one MC

No grenades either so they're getting hit first when charging into units in cover, who leaves shooty units you want to assault out in the open in 5th ed? i havent met many.

So 5+ inv save and the chance to get a random skill for over 25 pts a pop.... If the random skills were just furious charge, rending, power weapons then at least they'd get some consistency.

kairous
21-04-2009, 19:41
Im thinking/writing a Word bearers APOC list that contains possesed as one of the compulsory units.
One of the abilities of the formation would be to reroll the random ability at the start of the game ;)

evilsponge
21-04-2009, 19:47
Little known fact: if it isn't a lash prince, a plague marine, a rhino or an obliterator warseer thinks it is crap.

Possessed are fantastic - they do what berzerkers do, only they can handle a much broader range of infantry sized targets (give or take their particular roll on the table) at the cost of being able to barely punch down a dread and perhaps a carnifex.

Possessed are bargain killing machines.

possessed do what berzerkers do on a good roll of the dice. Yes, fantastic.

The_Outsider
21-04-2009, 21:20
Gee, guess there jsut isn't enough lash in a possessed unit for them to work at all huh?

Are people so blind to a unit's strengths and how it interacts with the rest of the list that anything that doesn't equal raw power must be crap? Possessed are as good as berzerkers before their roll, they gain survivability against marine slaying gear as well as maintaing a decent S value all the time, WS4 versus 5 skews things a little, but who cares when you can either deal more damage than berzerkers, take more damage or jsut flatout ignore the biggest problem berzerkers have - they are at the mercy of their rhino.

The lack of a powerfist is massively overrated, combined arms is the way to go - a powerfist doesn't truly save a berzerker squad, it only buys it time. Not to mention a possessed unit is only what, 4 points more expensive per man? For such versatility (even with the random daemonkin) they are a bargain.

Not being troop is a downside for possessed, but so what? Nearly all the best units in the game exist an a FoC slot that isn't troops.

Obviously expressing an opinion that doesn't support twin lash all the time means I get sarcastic replies by some people, but meh, when people understand how possessed work they truly are a fantastic unit.

BobTheZombie
21-04-2009, 21:35
I hope he won't mind me linking to this, but Malisteen wrote a brilliant analysis of the Possessed in the CSM overview thread over in Tactics- http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3280978&postcount=117
Says it all, really. They can be fun occasionally, but they've done nothing for me for far too often.

Bigbot
21-04-2009, 21:47
Gee, guess there jsut isn't enough lash in a possessed unit for them to work at all huh?

Are people so blind to a unit's strengths and how it interacts with the rest of the list that anything that doesn't equal raw power must be crap? Possessed are as good as berzerkers before their roll, they gain survivability against marine slaying gear as well as maintaing a decent S value all the time, WS4 versus 5 skews things a little, but who cares when you can either deal more damage than berzerkers, take more damage or jsut flatout ignore the biggest problem berzerkers have - they are at the mercy of their rhino.

The lack of a powerfist is massively overrated, combined arms is the way to go - a powerfist doesn't truly save a berzerker squad, it only buys it time. Not to mention a possessed unit is only what, 4 points more expensive per man? For such versatility (even with the random daemonkin) they are a bargain.

Not being troop is a downside for possessed, but so what? Nearly all the best units in the game exist an a FoC slot that isn't troops.

Obviously expressing an opinion that doesn't support twin lash all the time means I get sarcastic replies by some people, but meh, when people understand how possessed work they truly are a fantastic unit.

THe only person mentioning lash here dude is you (repeatedly).

I play Night lords chaos with a plague marine contingent. Posessed just arn't worth it, they don't count as scoring units, more expensive than troops choices, no long range attack means if they're not in a rhino they're gonna get hammered by any long range stuff.

To be honest for 4 points extra per model you can have termies that come with ranged weapons plus power weapons, the 5+ save AND a better normal save (2+).

Like others have said, they're not bad, but in a book where there's loads of great stuff, not bad just doesn't cut it.

Lordsaradain
21-04-2009, 22:07
Awesome models.
They are abit like spawn I think, they can sometimes be effective and are definetly fun to feild, but they are not the competative choice.

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 22:12
thats true, and theyre pretty good for shock value, stick them in a rhino and charge it at the enemy, even if theyre not overly effective theyre pretty scary looking models to see coming at you

Latro_
21-04-2009, 22:29
Gee, guess there jsut isn't enough lash in a possessed unit for them to work at all huh?

Are people so blind to a unit's strengths and how it interacts with the rest of the list that anything that doesn't equal raw power must be crap? Possessed are as good as berzerkers before their roll, they gain survivability against marine slaying gear as well as maintaing a decent S value all the time, WS4 versus 5 skews things a little, but who cares when you can either deal more damage than berzerkers, take more damage or jsut flatout ignore the biggest problem berzerkers have - they are at the mercy of their rhino.

The lack of a powerfist is massively overrated, combined arms is the way to go - a powerfist doesn't truly save a berzerker squad, it only buys it time. Not to mention a possessed unit is only what, 4 points more expensive per man? For such versatility (even with the random daemonkin) they are a bargain.

Not being troop is a downside for possessed, but so what? Nearly all the best units in the game exist an a FoC slot that isn't troops.

Obviously expressing an opinion that doesn't support twin lash all the time means I get sarcastic replies by some people, but meh, when people understand how possessed work they truly are a fantastic unit.

Lol I totally forgot bezerkers are ws5 as well! even better, 5pts cheaper, hit marines on the charge first at I5, have 4 attacks not 3, hit them on 3's not 4's + are the same s5 when they do it. This thread is making me think of finishing my Khorne army!!!

All the best units 'may' not been troops, but the point is chaos have troops that are imo better than possessed. The fact they are troops and therefore scoring means they are like +1 even better.

Why are bezerkers any more at the mercy of a rhino than possessed? Unless you are honestly 'not' going to buy one because in one third of games they'll either get scout or fleet, even if they do get both of those they still prob need rhinos.

IMO bezerkers work best from a LR, much like possessed would if they were worth buying.

Its true bezerkers don't have the staying power with no inv save, however the fact is unless you are daft you'll be getting the charge in with them so they'll be at I5 so are more often than not fighting first and therefore not taking hits before they swing, this is even more highlighted by the fact possessed lack frag grenades, so yes they'll get a 5+ inv save but bezerkers will be fighting with more attacks and will be doing it before the enemy more often than not. Also bezerkers fight at the same time as enemies in cover whereas the possessed will be fighting last and no doubt need that inv save.

After combat the inv save comes in more handly but if you have organised your attack so you have crap loads of fire coming at you after you charge in then you are doing something wrong.

They are 5pts more than a bezerker so in a unit of say 8 the bezkers get that PF for free with 15pts left towards something else. 4 S9 power fist attacks on the charge are very much worth 25pts and can save you from a lot of stuff.

weirdo2590
21-04-2009, 22:37
4 S9 power fist attacks on the charge

Fixed that for you, the furious charge bonus isnt doubled :p

edit - ooooh ninja'd by what couldnt have been more than 15 seconds ^^

Latro_
21-04-2009, 22:45
hehe i changed it before you posted dude, on the weekends i dress up as a farseer :)

Vaktathi
21-04-2009, 22:52
Possessed are bargain killing machines.

For their cost, Berserksers or Terminators are almost always a better choice over Possessed.

Berserkers have an extra attack and higher charge init, have frag and krak grenaes, and are 5pts cheaper each.

Terminators automatically come with powerweapons, have a better armor save, have ranged capability and a solid assortment of special weapons options and can deep strike for only 4pts more.

Why take possessed when either of these two units can do the same job either better, cheaper, (or both) and with some shooting capability?

Neftus
21-04-2009, 23:03
Well bezerkers get s5 on the charge anyway and more importantly have I5 too... which is imo a world away better when you consider running large units down after beating them in combat.

If I remember correctly, in a sweeping advance you always use the base I and do not get to use any I bonuses for seeing if you chase someone down. Which would include furious charge or the slannesh icon.

Not that that has anything to do with the topic, but I remember reading it not too long ago.

Latro_
21-04-2009, 23:08
If I remember correctly, in a sweeping advance you always use the base I and do not get to use any I bonuses for seeing if you chase someone down. Which would include furious charge or the slannesh icon.

Not that that has anything to do with the topic, but I remember reading it not too long ago.

Right you are! just checked it. Interesting, will have to remember that when i get the red mad men finished.

Koryphaus
22-04-2009, 00:00
Well, I like possessed. I field a unit of 9 Bezerkers + Chaos Lord in Rhino, alongside a unit of 9 Possessed Marines with IoS + Sorcerer in Rhino.

Hits like a ton of bricks, and gets me a higher composition score at tournaments than Bezerker spam, and lets my CSM squads hold objectives!