PDA

View Full Version : The Black Crusade(s) series



Lupercal16
22-04-2009, 06:29
You think a TBC series will be the next WH40K series to come after the Horus Heresy? Though if there's a chance for it, it be years from now and the next 2 HH novels after Fallen Angels will be next year. :(

Enkidu
22-04-2009, 07:09
Its an interesting idea. Toss it around the BL website, maybe we'll get lucky and someone will listen (and proceed to hire writers like Goto, Lightner and Scanlon to completely butcher it and cause us fluff fanatics to gouge their eyes out with rusty spoons).

malika
22-04-2009, 07:19
Hmm, more novels on Space Marines...that's exactly what we need...

Enkidu
22-04-2009, 08:11
Hmm, more novels on Space Marines...that's exactly what we need...

We'll I would say a series depicting the high-tide of Eldar society, their subsequent turning point, downfall and birth of Slannesh. But then we already saw what Goto did with the Eldar and there are more than enough threads already threatening him serious bodily harm, its probably in everyone's best interest to not go there!

Joking aside, now that I think of it, a series about the Tau would be pretty cool. I can only think of one book off the top of my head that I've read that has any serious interaction with them, and it was one of Sandy Mitchell's 'Caphias Cain' novels. :p
It didn't focus much on them past the first few chapters, but I enjoyed the subtheme of their mixed diplomacy and war with the Imperium to advance their territory.

malika
22-04-2009, 08:28
Well, I think the Eldar rise/Fall or even the War in Heaven would be quite interesting to see. Just keep Goto away...far far away.

But yeah, it would mean BL writers would actually be challanged and have to come up with something totally different to make it cool. Why do that if you could stick to another hundred Space Marine novels?

Spider-pope
22-04-2009, 09:00
I'd rather see a Age of Apostasy book(s) rather than a Black Crusade series. Vandire at least was a compelling villain, unlike Abaddon. Plus a 13 book series where Abby loses in all but one of them probably would get a tad repetitive.

Simon Sez
22-04-2009, 09:58
I would rather see the War in Heaven, written like a classical Epic, like Beowulf or the Illiad: No Space Marines, no characters that need to be protected to show up later (aside from the Laughing God and the final four C'tan) a different writing style than what we normally see, and I think it would remove a lot of the angst about most of the 40kverse being created by two factions if we could see all of what happened beyond the snippets we have now.

The Macharius Crusade could be cool too, especially if it was written as first hand from Macharius or one of his closest advisors...

borithan
22-04-2009, 10:25
Plus a 13 book series where Abby loses in all but one of them probably would get a tad repetitive.He seems to suffer from the "I have lost but I have still won" disease though... Ok, I don't know about most of the crusades, but the 12th (Gothic War) he was eventually beaten back, but only after he had swiped what he wanted (Blackstone Fortresses), then the battle described in the 5th ed rulebook he gets pushed off the agri-world they have invaded, but they have done so much damage that it can no longer produce enough food for some important hive world which ended up with famine and basically everyone dying... exactly as Abaddon had planned.

Iracundus
22-04-2009, 11:53
He seems to suffer from the "I have lost but I have still won" disease though... Ok, I don't know about most of the crusades, but the 12th (Gothic War) he was eventually beaten back, but only after he had swiped what he wanted (Blackstone Fortresses)

The Gothic War was pretty clearly a loss for Abaddon. He was out to get all 6 of the Blackstone Fortresses in order to link their power together. He only managed at his best to get hold of 3, and then he lost 1 of them in his retreat from the sector. His strategic objective of getting 6 was foiled.

Story wise the Gothic War was a template for what GW seemed to have expected the 13th Black Crusade to follow (but didn't, with the EoT campaign ending in Chaos victory): Chaos surprise attack, Imperial reinforcements arrive, status quo restored

DarkMatter2
22-04-2009, 12:02
The Macharian Crusade would be the ideal setting for a series of novels IMHO.

Enkidu
22-04-2009, 12:54
Its true that for a dark forbidding future where there is only war and the Imperium is besiged on every side by traitors, xenos, etc etc. They do seem to win alot. The few times literature does have them lose, aside from the HH series where some Legions get completely F'ed up; its really only ever minor losses, usually on a world that was made up for the sole purpose of being lost, and then they forget that world ever existed. One reason I enjoy the Ghosts novels, even if they do win a little too much, atleast they are taking back something they "lost" and there is a sense of dire.
Personally I would love if the next Black Crusade actually did something! Cut a swath into the Imperium, messed up some SM homeworlds, something. It could always later be pushed back, or hell Abaddon might fight his way half way to Terra, or some other, high priority target, and then just turn around and leave saying "Gotcha! I coulda had you if I wanted you" ala Hannibal Barca style (Carthaginian wars against Rome).

Even in the later codecies (?), the battle of Ultramaar was made more and more of a total win than it started out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the first version, didn't they get seriously messed up and have 'Nids still hiding around afterwords?

Idaan
22-04-2009, 14:25
Vandire at least was a compelling villain, unlike Abaddon. Plus a 13 book series where Abby loses in all but one of them probably would get a tad repetitive.While I don't think that Abaddon is a very compelling character, I find that misconception quite annoying.
1. Abaddon didn't lead all 13 Black Crusades. Some where independent from him, and two commanders mentioned are Tallomin and Doombreed, both Daemon Princes of Khorne
2. Not all of Abaddon-led Black Crusades were aiming to reach Earth. During the first he tried to capture Drach'nyen on Uralan (succeeded), during the seventh he was after the Eye of Night (succeeded), and during the twelfth he tried to capture the Blackstones (partially succeeded)
3. Chaos won 13th Black Crusade. Repeat: CHAOS WON 13TH BLACK CRUSADE. Says so right in the end report. Besides, Apocalypse rulebook shows Abaddon on a world not in the Cadian Gate, with a fully functional Planet Killer. So he's getting closer to Terra, even though he'll never reach it due to timeline freeze.

Spider-pope
22-04-2009, 14:27
While I don't think that Abaddon is a very compelling character, I find that misconception quite annoying.
1. Abaddon didn't lead all 13 Black Crusades. Some where independent from him, and two commanders mentioned are Tallomin and Doombreed, both Daemon Princes of Khorne
2. Not all of Abaddon-led Black Crusades were aiming to reach Earth. During the first he tried to capture Drach'nyen on Uralan (succeeded), during the seventh he was after the Eye of Night (succeeded), and during the twelfth he tried to capture the Blackstones (partially succeeded)
3. Chaos won 13th Black Crusade. Repeat: CHAOS WON 13TH BLACK CRUSADE. Says so right in the end report. Besides, Apocalypse rulebook shows Abaddon on a world not in the Cadian Gate, with a fully functional Planet Killer. So he's getting closer to Terra, even though he'll never reach it due to timeline freeze.

I know Chaos won the last Crusade, hence "all but one"

PondaNagura
22-04-2009, 15:14
i second tau stories, and War in heaven, in a classical prose. it would longer to write, ask more background questions than answer, and generate some more what is/if threads here.

i like the black crusades, but it would seem that the more recent ones 12 and 13 seem to have been the bolder grander moves of the Despoiler, whereas some of the earlier ones are more in line with his personal conquests, rather anything other legions could really get involved in.

Brother Valtarius
23-04-2009, 18:00
Joking aside, now that I think of it, a series about the Tau would be pretty cool. I can only think of one book off the top of my head that I've read that has any serious interaction with them, and it was one of Sandy Mitchell's 'Caphias Cain' novels. :p
It didn't focus much on them past the first few chapters, but I enjoyed the subtheme of their mixed diplomacy and war with the Imperium to advance their territory.

If you can get a copy you should read Firewarrior I thought it was a brill book and if you've played the game certain parts make you think "ah, thats what happened".

mightymconeshot
23-04-2009, 22:17
Ultramar got pretty screwed. It seems to get better each time. Huh? Anyway away from inconsistent writers they have planned the rest of the hours through hours and the emperors grand fight. It is supposed to be called a new series don't know what.

I want to see something with the split of elder and dark elder. Maybe the first nid invasion.