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View Full Version : Yay or Nay to Batwing Helmets



SimonL
26-04-2009, 01:37
Ok, the below Night Lord fluff discussion has got me wondering, was the bat-wing helmet a great idea to give the NL a unique image? Or was it a terrible design flaw?

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 01:38
I liked it alot. I started Night Lords because of it.

ctsteel
26-04-2009, 01:41
Small wings would have made an interesting affectation.
The giant flappy paddles they have on the models make them look like terror-clowns.

I guess it's just a case of accentuating the model's distinctive feature so they are obvious on the table top (much like the thousand sons and khorne bezerkers have too-big headdress bits), but it puts me off them.

Frep
26-04-2009, 01:44
I sort of like the batwings, I think they look pretty good in all the artwork but it seems too hard to pull off in model form without looking goofy.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 01:49
Looks silly, so perfectly in keeping with much of the Chaos background and art.

Problem, chaos?

cankingboi
26-04-2009, 01:51
i like but i dont they will make people run in fear.might make them laugh...

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 01:59
How does it look silly? You've got the legion symbol worked into the helmets. It's looks pretty badass.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 02:01
How does it look silly?

Just look at it. It's nearly as ridiculous as Sanguinis.

PondaNagura
26-04-2009, 02:06
eh, i liked the idea of helm-ornamentation like with 1k sons and berserkers, as it adds a particular character, but i think it could have been more sleek like this:

if not that then skullmasks or leering daemon helms...

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:08
How? Alexander the Great and other ancient generals wore plums in their armor. the spread out wings to the side give the model a look of menace and badass. It's the essence of the legion's symbol, worked into the helm. I fail to see how it looks ridiculous.

Lexington
26-04-2009, 02:29
They do inspire fear - fear that the poor Night Lords will fall over from poor weight distribution. I hope Night Haunter's estate has some good lawyers, 'cause the lawsuits from the NL Legionairres must be many and grievous.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:31
They do inspire fear - fear that the poor Night Lords will fall over from poor weight distribution. I hope Night Haunter's estate has some good lawyers, 'cause the lawsuits from the NL Legionairres must be many and grievous.

It does'nt look that heavy to me. Surely the muscular strength of an astartes would be able to easily compensate.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 02:31
the spread out wings to the side give the model a look of menace and badass.

No, it makes it look silly. Though I see why they do it - so all the enemies will fall over laughing when they see them.

Behold, a helmet with ridiculous wings:

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/ZahrDalsk/googlesanguinis.png

Hellebore
26-04-2009, 02:33
Batwings DESIGNED WELL would look fine, but the models especially look like they have ragged dumbo ears.

If they curved back from the face more I think they would look better. There is a Des Hanley piece of art from 2nd ed of a Nightlord with wings that actually look GOOD. Sadly they didn't follow that design aesthetic.

hellebore

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:39
No, it makes it look silly. Though I see why they do it - so all the enemies will fall over laughing when they see them.

Behold, a helmet with ridiculous wings:

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/ZahrDalsk/googlesanguinis.png

How? Give me a few good examples.

PondaNagura
26-04-2009, 02:46
why are you approaching this matteroffactly? the whole premise is based on an opinion, either you like them, or you don't.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:46
I want to see why he does't like them I have given reasons why I like them, he has given me none.

SimonL
26-04-2009, 02:47
I need to resize that pic so I can post it lol. THAT has always been my concept of what a Night Lord should look like.

Charax
26-04-2009, 02:55
Isn't one of the Night Lords' major strengths stealth, combined with fear?

Giant bat ears of death are not stealthy, nor are they scary. Small, swept-back wings would work well as a method of incorporating chapter iconography into the helmet.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:58
Isn't one of the Night Lords' major strengths stealth, combined with fear?

Giant bat ears of death are not stealthy, nor are they scary. Small, swept-back wings would work well as a method of incorporating chapter iconography into the helmet.

Stealth was one of the legion's tactics but not the end all to it's battles. and of course Gw has the Night Lords with lightnig playing off thier armor.

And if we are talking about fear the bat-helmets would be effective at increasing the height and shape of the marine.

Although I do agree that the bat-wings are better illistrated than modeled.

SimonL
26-04-2009, 03:09
Ok, I was able to upload it in a DIY Demotivational poster lol

Müller
26-04-2009, 03:10
I don't like it that much, the wings could've been incorporated in a better way (perhaps shaped shoulder pads?)

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 03:24
How? Give me a few good examples.

OP's attached pic.

Brother Gabriel
26-04-2009, 03:31
Batwings DESIGNED WELL would look fine, but the models especially look like they have ragged dumbo ears.

If they curved back from the face more I think they would look better. There is a Des Hanley piece of art from 2nd ed of a Nightlord with wings that actually look GOOD. Sadly they didn't follow that design aesthetic.

hellebore

I actually totally agree. Never thougt this would ever happen... :D
So this is a QFT i guess.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 03:31
1. You are't the OP.

2. What's wrong with it?

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 03:32
1. You are't the OP.

So? The example is right there. Would you like me to save it to photobucket, then link it?


2. What's wrong with it?

It looks silly and hilarious.

Hellebore
26-04-2009, 03:33
I actually totally agree. Never thougt this would ever happen... :D
So this is a QFT i guess.

Well, I've since been shown the error of my ways by SimonL's pic at the top of the page. I don't think there is another Night Lord Hanley pic so I completely misremembered that picture (I may have transposed the batwings on the chest plate to the hed).

Still, the design aesthetic still stands. More Ultramarine honour guard and less Wiggles.

hellebore

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 03:35
It looks silly and hilarious.

How? Tell me why.

SimonL
26-04-2009, 03:37
Ahaha, I have resized it. A comparison...

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 03:39
I still prefer the one on the right.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 03:50
How? Tell me why.

Because it looks like this:

starlight
26-04-2009, 04:04
Could have been done better (ie meanacing, but looking more balanced).


Night Lords are the only Legion that I was ever interested in, yet the overdone winged theme is what put me off the most. :( One day I'll be good enough to do the theme justice and I'll do a Night Lord force. :)

thechosenone
26-04-2009, 04:11
Lord Crull, i think your really approaching an opinion thread like a thread in the rules forum. I mean, you clearly are biased because you play them. I play them too, i like them and i like the helms. SOme people thing its over the top. Some people think its thematic. To keep asking how and have people keep responding with the equivalent of "it just doesn't sit right with me" is repetitive.

PondaNagura
26-04-2009, 04:26
you know if those were done in say a leather brown color and the heads were mounted on true-scaled marines they might not be as bad... I think it's the bright red and the scale on the model that really kills them.

thechosenone
26-04-2009, 04:30
somebody... who isn't me... needs to true scale up some nightlords post haste.

SimonL
26-04-2009, 04:40
I think the garish colours are the nail in the coffin. I'd be much more in favour if the wings were more "stylized" like the Khornate "bunny ears". The bat "face" part of the helmet is awesome.

Vote Kantor
26-04-2009, 05:08
that chest plate one looks awesome, because it isnt floating there, they look like the marine is "in flight, they need to be toned down, and modeled down, if they were on the marines backs, (damb, now i have to choose between blood angels successors, with wings, or night lords with bat wings, bloody brain) THAT, would look awesome

Horus38
26-04-2009, 05:14
The concept for them was original and cool for a CSM force. However, I definitely would have them sleeked down and folded back on the helmet if they're redone.

Cool_Mint
26-04-2009, 07:25
It does'nt look that heavy to me. Surely the muscular strength of an astartes would be able to easily compensate.

Quite true, but try hiding behind a rock wearing a pair of giant bunny ears.

I'n not against giant head crests as such, but it's a major fashion faux pas when Chaos Marines are already covered head to toe in bulky armour and spikes and things and carrying guns the size of long-vacation suitcases. All sense of proportion is lost when everything is big.


There are some pretty good metal Chaos Marines but I have yet to see a plastic Chaos Marine miniature that I like; frankly they are just plain bad; too chunky, too awkward.

The last time I was really interested in Chaos Marines was before they were Marines! Chaos "Renegades"..
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2108chaosrenegades-h.htm

changer of fate
26-04-2009, 08:00
without the wings, they would look like thousand sons.

and u wouldn't be in the legion if u r retarded enough to fall over because of a helmet...........

Brother Gabriel
26-04-2009, 09:07
Well, I've since been shown the error of my ways by SimonL's pic at the top of the page. I don't think there is another Night Lord Hanley pic so I completely misremembered that picture (I may have transposed the batwings on the chest plate to the hed).

Still, the design aesthetic still stands. More Ultramarine honour guard and less Wiggles.
hellebore

I remembered another picture as well, and just assumed we mean the same. Hmm im unable to find it right now.

But still yes to the "more Honor Guard" look. And that would not only look better, but be more streamlined as well. Way better for Raptors...

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 14:14
Because it looks like this:

And? You have not given me a why, just pictures and vauge words. I am curious, tell me exactly why.

I see nothing wrong with the picture.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
26-04-2009, 14:32
And? You have not given me a why, just pictures and vauge words. I am curious, tell me exactly why.

I see nothing wrong with the picture.

Holy crap. As has been said before, multiple times, this is an opinion question. They don't have to justify it to you at all. But they have, many times, saying it looks ridiculous. Mostly because they are very large and look out of character for a legion of stealthy death machines.

We all know you like them. Congratulations. Why do you have to keep pestering everyone else for more and more reasons why they don't like them?

For the record, I think they are too big for this edition of 40K. We're moving away from the bright colors and ridiculous gear. Let the Chaos Marines catch up, too.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 14:39
Holy crap. As has been said before, multiple times, this is an opinion question. They don't have to justify it to you at all. But they have, many times, saying it looks ridiculous. Mostly because they are very large and look out of character for a legion of stealthy death machines.

We all know you like them. Congratulations. Why do you have to keep pestering everyone else for more and more reasons why they don't like them?

For the record, I think they are too big for this edition of 40K. We're moving away from the bright colors and ridiculous gear. Let the Chaos Marines catch up, too.

I'm just wondering, is it a crime to wonder?

tortoise
26-04-2009, 14:56
The bat wings on the night lord models are OTT, but absolutely no more so than the colossal horns on the vanilla chaos marines.

I don't mind the models at all, though I would prefer a more swept back and sleeker look.

Allen
26-04-2009, 15:00
I'm just wondering, is it a crime to wonder?


Yes, when "wondering" means literally "having a pedantic approach to a discussion". This is not a rule thread...if the OP, me or any other forum member say "I don't like the winged helmets because IMO they look silly" there's no need to keep posting "why?", "tell me why" or "you still haven't show me why".

For three pages. Three.

Just stop. Please.


However, back in topic: when I was young a friend of mine gave me some Batman comics. I'm not really fond of DC stuff, but I seem to recall a quite good "armoured batman"...I thing it was called Azrael, or something. Wayne was confined on a wheelchair and that Azrael take the role of Batman, using an high-tech armour. His helmet was really good, with stylized bat ears.

Fire Harte
26-04-2009, 15:12
With flappy bat wings and coruscating lightning combined with roaring bolter and shrieking chainsword I have to say it's pretty scary and epic win.

endless
26-04-2009, 15:18
when I was young a friend of mine gave me some Batman comics. I'm not really fond of DC stuff, but I seem to recall a quite good "armoured batman"...I thing it was called Azrael, or something. Wayne was confined on a wheelchair and that Azrael take the role of Batman, using an high-tech armour. His helmet was really good, with stylized bat ears.
He was indeed called Azrael and quite possibly his character had an influence on the character of their Primarch, sadly not on the appearance of the armour.:cries: Another no vote here.

Techgardist
26-04-2009, 15:31
I would like the wings to be smaller and more angled to the back.
Like on Lancelots hélmet in the movie Excalibur.
He´s the knight in the back. Sorry but i couldn´t find a better picture.
http://posters.motechnet.com/title/tt0082348/

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 16:45
Why do you insist that the sun is bright?

Because it is. Look up, see how bright it is.


Why do you insist that the Night Lord's helmets are ridiculous?

Because it is. Look at the picture, see how silly and ridiculous it is.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 18:29
Because it is. Look up, see how bright it is.



I did not type in that quote, why did you put it there?:confused: To make me look like an idiot?

Epic Fail.:eyebrows:




Because it is. Look at the picture, see how silly and ridiculous it is.

Why is it silly? I fail to understand you. I think it looks badass and menacing. Look at the Knights Teutonic, look at Azreal the replacment Batman.

I am not asking you to prove something, this is not a rules thread, I am asking you to explain your position so I may better understand it.

And I mean you, not any other poster.


Yes, when "wondering" means literally "having a pedantic approach to a discussion". This is not a rule thread...if the OP, me or any other forum member say "I don't like the winged helmets because IMO they look silly" there's no need to keep posting "why?", "tell me why" or "you still haven't show me why".

For three pages. Three.

Just stop. Please.



I am honestly curious why people think they are ridiculous.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 18:39
I did not type in that quote, why did you put it there?

To compare; they are both equally ridiculous questions. Asking why the Night Lords' helmets look silly is like asking why the sun is bright.

Look at it. How can you not burst into laughter at the sheer ridiculous silliness of it? The helmets themselves are the proof.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 18:46
To compare; they are both equally ridiculous questions. Asking why the Night Lords' helmets look silly is like asking why the sun is bright.

Look at it. How can you not burst into laughter at the sheer ridiculous silliness of it? The helmets themselves are the proof.

How are large batwings hilarious? Satan had them. He's pretty evil.

I really don't see why.

Just saying ''it's stupid'' and not saying why it's stupid makes it hard to understand WHY you feel that way. I've given my reasons why I think it's cool and I've gotten not much in return which makes me wonder why this opinion is nothing more than some random fan-whine.

Killgore
26-04-2009, 18:47
when i hear people talk about or see Night Lords 'Bat Wings' i have an unfortunate flashback to the movie 'Waiting'

I perfer standard power armoured helmets with skulls painted on to look extra scary

Techgardist
26-04-2009, 18:47
I am honestly curious why people think they are ridiculous.

I guess for me it comes down to the fact the wings are oversized, and look goofy. But my biggest problem is that in that box every single Night Lord has them. I would be far more forgiving if only a couple marines had them. In a way they are like the Champions helmet from the regular CMS box, on a single model they look cool or unique but on a whole squad they look ridiculous.

Charax
26-04-2009, 18:48
I am honestly curious why people think they are ridiculous.
Because they are, look it up - they have caused ridicule and/or derision (in this very thread, no less) ergo they are ridiculous


Definitions: Saving you another three pages of pointless questioning.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 18:50
I guess for me it comes down to the fact the wings are oversized, and look goofy. But my biggest problem is that in that box every single Night Lord has them. I would be far more forgiving if only a couple marines had them. In a way they are like the Champions helmet from the regular CMS box, on a single model they look cool or unique but on a whole squad they look ridiculous.

The Night Lords box provids regular helmets, no one if forcing you to model the whole squad with them. You can simply chose to model one or two marines.

Personally I have my entire army modeled with them since it makes my Night Lords look cool and distinct, rather than blue bog-standard chaos marines.


Because they are, look it up - they have caused ridicule and/or derision (in this very thread, no less) ergo they are ridiculous


Definitions: Saving you another three pages of pointless questioning.

I have no problem with people who explain it, just the ones who simply say, ''it's stupid'' and leave it at that.

Techgardist
26-04-2009, 18:54
The Night Lords box provids regular helmets, no one if forcing you to model the whole squad with them. You can simply chose to model one or two marines.

Personally I have my entire army modeled with them since it makes my Night Lords look cool and distinct, rather than blue bog-standard chaos marines.

Okay, I didn´t knew that, with me having never bought a NL box at all. I was just working with the cover photo and the WD articles were they all have the bat wings.

Edit: And I´m not trying to insult the NL, I have a 1000p army of them myself. Heck they were my first 40k army, I loved from the moment I read their entry in the 2ed codex.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 18:59
Okay, I didn´t knew that, with me having never bought a NL box at all. I was just working with the cover photo and the WD articles were they all have the bat wings.

Edit: And I´m not trying to insult the NL, I have a 1000p army of them myself. Heck they were my first 40k army, I loved from the moment I read their entry in the 2ed codex.

I'm not accusing you of anything.:confused:

Techgardist
26-04-2009, 19:13
I'm not accusing you of anything.:confused:

Youré not accusing,but youre attitude is a wee bit strange. For an example you modeled you NL with the bat helmets, something I would never do, now imagine if I would bug you for three pages why you would do that, and wouldn´t be satisfied with "because I like them this way" and asking you over and over again.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 19:22
Youré not accusing,but youre attitude is a wee bit strange. For an example you modeled you NL with the bat helmets, something I would never do, now imagine if I would bug you for three pages why you would do that, and wouldn´t be satisfied with "because I like them this way" and asking you over and over again.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I am merely asking one paticular person why they think it is stupid, I have not gotten a good answer from that person yet and many answers form other people.

Techgardist
26-04-2009, 19:34
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I am merely asking one paticular person why they think it is stupid, I have not gotten a good answer from that person yet and many answers form other people.

I was just a bit confused about the :confused: smiley.

TimLeeson
26-04-2009, 19:35
I dont like the batwings either, personally. I think they look too cheesey IMO in that "evil gothic" cliche kind of way, it sorta looks like the heads about to fly away like some horror themed looney tunes cartoon. Then again, what about 40k -isnt- over the top ? I guess this particular design just doesnt suit me. I'd prefer it if their helmets looked more like vicious daemons, maybe ill do a few myself.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 19:39
I was just a bit confused about the :confused: smiley.

I'm just experimenting with the emoticons.:)

Techgardist
26-04-2009, 20:15
I'm just experimenting with the emoticons.:)

Oh well then I will have to abstine from sicking the Inquisition on you;)

Rockerfella
26-04-2009, 20:19
I'm pleased the 'no' brigade are out in force this fine evening!

Personally, I just don't think they're remotely sinister. I want a Night Lord to make a mortal quail and soil his or her pants, not break down in hysteria. His ribs cracking-due to the hammer blows from the Night Lords ham fists, not becasue of the bouts of colossal, manic laughter at the sight of those frankly ludicrous helmet wings.

Pfffrt.

kikkoman
26-04-2009, 20:25
I play Eldar, so I'm used to gigantic fancy helmets.

I like the idea of the nightlords, some of their wing helmets look better than others though

I'd say a general problem is just how they intergrate with the standard marine power armor. It's a pretty solid, wide and squared off design.

Thousand Sons, Khorne Berserkers, and generic horns rise out of this shape ok.

The wings though, because of their veins and organic shape, draw more attention than they horizontal bands of the Thousand, the solid bars of the berserkers or solid horns of other marines. Their horns draw your eyes in one or two directions (straight up with a slight curve, or horizontal bands). Night Lord wings though, spread out in a radiating pattern.

Marines in general have large, prominent rounded shoulders. the Thousand, Berserkers, and horns match up with the rounded shoulders better, while the bat wings stand out more. This draws more attention to the Nightlord's heads.

If you also look at other bat wing designs on GW models...

With Wights and Blood Knights, their shoulders are not as large as a marine's. The helmet does not compete with the shoulders to draw attention, rather they complement each other. Their armor also has bands and layers, similar to their wing design.
With the Dragon Knights, their helmets are already tall, and again it matches the design of their shoulders.

I think the problem with Night Lords is not so much their helmets, but their armor, especially the large, solid shoulders. If you put a banded design similar to the wings on their shoulders (or like on blood knights or dragon knights), it would make them much more complete looking.

kikkoman
26-04-2009, 20:37
MSpainted my example.

Space marines have gigantic, prominent solid shoulders where their symbols are displayed. They occupy a great deal of 'space' on the model

space marine helmet designs thus have to work around this 'space' created by the shoulders

with the TK sons, their head decorations draw the eye vertically and horizontally above the shoulders, it gives them a more solid, tall appearance that fits their image.

With berserkers, their horns draw the eye upward, but with some curve, it makes them even more imposing, as it continues the shape of their large shoulders.

With Nightlords, their radiating wings draws the eyes in a burst, but it cuts into their solid shoulder design.
This clash of lines makes their heads 'compete' with the shoulder's 'space', making their bat wings stand out even more.

Wights, Dragon Knights, and Blood Knights all have shoulders that relate to the design of their helmets.

Dragon Knight's wings and shoulders all radiate outward and slightly upward, giving them an effect like wings on their steed. The radiating pattern from head to shoulders has a steady level of density.

Blood Knights, even if their lines intersect, it is in a similar density of radiation, and the bands on their armor also make it more uniform.

So yeah, the problem of Night Lords is not so much the wings alone, but how the wings fit with their space marine shoulders.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 20:54
Thank you, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

tortoise
26-04-2009, 21:14
Personally I'm not terribly satisfied with any explanation so far. Of course, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion- whether you like them or not is entirely down to your taste.

However, I just can't understand why oversized wings look more ridiculous than oversized horns. I suppose the horns have more verticality is one reason but in actual fact some of them are even larger than the NL bat wings and look even more impossible to wear without breaking your own neck.

I seriously reckon that quite a lot of the hate has been caused by the horrible GW paint jobs. Bright red for the wings against a dark blue main colour looks terrible. If the 'eavy metal team had painted the bat wings blue or maybe off-white then they wouldn't draw nearly so much attention, especially if the eyes of the model were bright red. Now I'm not saying that just changing the colour would make them look great, or that everyone who hates them would love them if they'd never seen the 'eavy metal colour scheme, but I doubt there would ever have been so much discussion about them.

In any event, I think there's not that many people who don't think that some restraint on the part of the sculptor would have improved the models.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 21:15
P
However, I just can't understand why oversized wings look more ridiculous than oversized horns.

Horns belong on a head.

Wings do not.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 21:22
Horns belong on a head.

Wings do not.

The Dragon princes, Tuetonic Knights, Brettonian Knights, Blood Knights and many greek officers of Alexander the Great's army would like to disagree with you.:p

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 21:27
The Dragon princes, Tuetonic Knights, Brettonian Knights, Blood Knights and many greek officers of Alexander the Great's army would like to disagree with you.

That does not in any way stop it from being ridiculous.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 21:28
That does not in any way stop it from being ridiculous.

In your opinion.:D

SimonL
26-04-2009, 21:30
I don't know why I find the NL ones absurd, yet I love that pic of Sanguinius with the winged helm. Hmm...

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 21:31
Hard Mode: Look at the picture without giggling or laughing.
Nightmare Mode: Without so much as a smile.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 21:35
Hard Mode: Look at the picture without giggling or laughing.
Nightmare Mode: Without so much as a smile.

I must be a ungodly master then! I find that awesome.:D

Rockerfella
26-04-2009, 21:39
That does not in any way stop it from being ridiculous.

See, i'm with you here.

The bottom line is, it matters not that people aren't satisfied with answers. Its not their place to dictate reason from anyone on this thread. I guess it all boils down to a simple matter of taste, and opinion. Which is cool, since that's what this forum is all about. For me, at least. ;)

To me, the bat wings aren't in fitting with the imagery of the astartes. If they were smaller, and closer to the head, then that might look a little better to me.

But, the huge angel of the north style wings thrusting moronically out the sides of these once glorious monsters is for me, well... daft.

Its just not scary, or sinister. these guys need to be really scary. It was the same with the Dark Eldar warriors. Those Helmets were just plain daft. Now GW seems to have taken that edge away, and often, less is indeed more. Case in point, Dark Eldar.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 21:49
Then could we agree to disagree? Saying one thing is absolute is wrong.

Rockerfella
26-04-2009, 22:01
We can always agree to disagree. Thats the whole point, isn't it? :O)

I mean, no one is saying one thing is absolute. They're just saying that for them, the wings are absolutely hideous. Thats different, right? ;P

Cheers!

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 22:06
I don't know, I think Zhar's trying to flamebait me.

Talos
26-04-2009, 22:21
TBH I would think you are trying to flamebait him.
I love the Night lords fluff and would love to make an army of them but the wings put me off alot. I think they look stupid they are to large and just look so out of place on the model.
I think if they where remade they could be done alot better.
I thing that annoys me most about the wings is I love the night lords and all there fluff (lord of night is a great book) and I think they could be amazing models. And really the wings just need to be made a little smaller and they could look great.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 22:23
I assure you that is not my intention.

I mean this veers close to flamebaiting.


To compare; they are both equally ridiculous questions. Asking why the Night Lords' helmets look silly is like asking why the sun is bright.



And this


Hard Mode: Look at the picture without giggling or laughing.
Nightmare Mode: Without so much as a smile.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 22:32
I mean this veers close to flamebaiting.

And this

How is it "flamebaiting" (I assume you mean trolling)? You are saying things which make no sense, and I am trying to point out the obvious.

Felwether
26-04-2009, 22:36
I have to say they don't look good on the current modelsbut that's really only because they're quite dated and TBH poorly sculpted.

Make them slightly smaller with sharper edges and decrease the angle between the wing and the actual helmet and you've got a winner.

Check out the illustration in the Chaos background section in the 5th ed. RB to see how uber cool they COULD be.

madprophet
26-04-2009, 22:38
The bat=wing helmets of the Night Lords always reminded me of 'moon-bat' hats. Never did anything for me. In truth, horny helmets don't do much either. I used Arab and Turkish style heads mixed with plain helmets for my Chaos 'Jieshi Is'Malal' marines.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 22:52
How is it "flamebaiting" (I assume you mean trolling)? You are saying things which make no sense, and I am trying to point out the obvious.

In your opinion. On internet forums people do not have the exact same opinion as one another. I find your attempts to tell me that I have poor judgment insulting to me.

Rockerfella
26-04-2009, 22:58
Ok guys, this clearly isn't going to go anywhere. My guess is the thread stands a decent chance of getting shut down pretty soon.

So (and speaking from one who knows, trust me...) my adivice would be to simply agree to disagree, or continue the 'debate' in private.

Cheers Lads.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 23:02
I have already agreed to disagree a few posts back. I aceept that people do not share the same likes as I do and that not everyone likes the bat-helmets. What I do not accept is implication that I am dumb and that my choice is flawed and that the other chioce is the ''obvious'' one.

Felwether
26-04-2009, 23:17
Ehm... Relax?

Messiah
26-04-2009, 23:18
IMO, everything else in the WH40k is OTT, expecially CSM, so the batwings dont bother me, in fact they look pretty awesome.

Ubermensch Commander
26-04-2009, 23:29
I liked em. Needs other inconography to make it work and the right paint job, but they look no worse than the fearsome bunny eared Berserkers of Khorne.
Or Noise Marines in general.

Though I prefer beakies and such painted as death masks. And Lighting on their armor. When done well its quite an awesome effect.

Mannimarco
26-04-2009, 23:34
those "bunny ears" form the skull rune of khorne and look cool

helmets on the TS look suitably ornate and egyption

batwings dont look right, not at all, the night lords are the undisputed masters of terror tactics, if anything the helmets should graphic and disturbing monter/daemonic faces, anything to look scary and imposing, sadly batwings dont do that

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 23:40
the night lords are the undisputed masters of terror tactics

y halo thar

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 00:13
bah everybody knows those guys dont count!

1: theyre not marines and if your not a marine your not important
2: Night lords are way scarier, read your uplifting primer, shine a torch at those DE and theyll flee

this post is a joke so dont flame!

InquisitorNiels
27-04-2009, 00:36
I think the only NL model that doesn't suck is the champion. Not saying it's great, just that it doesn't suck. I like the swept back look, but the other helmets just poke out sideways.

changer of fate
27-04-2009, 01:23
guys, who gives a crap........u like it, good, whatever..........u don't like it, no one gives a toss. why we even disscussing about it.

it is more like a debating thread now............

gees, for the last time, it is just a freaking helmet, u like it put it on ur models, u don't then dont buy it. it is just that simple.

SimonL
27-04-2009, 01:40
That was the entire point, to see how many people like it. Not to bash other people's opinions.

And to explore possible changes/alternatives.

Felwether
27-04-2009, 01:52
I reckon a FW upgrade kit for the Night Lords would be awesome - if they ever get around to doing it that is.

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 01:55
they'll probably do god specific legions 1st, plague marines, khorne berserkers, probably noise marines and thousand sons next, then if we lucky non specific legions but thats some way off

truth be told what id like to see is a forgeworld only CSM force (a la red scorpions)

blackcherry
27-04-2009, 01:55
I love the concept and many of the artwork, but the miniatures designed by GW are a bit pants.

Felwether
27-04-2009, 02:25
truth be told what id like to see is a forgeworld only CSM force (a la red scorpions)

Ooh! Could be interesting for a future IA book alright.

Lord-Caerolion
27-04-2009, 05:13
I would kill whole cities by myself, Night Lord style to see Forge World release some proper Night Lord kits...

As for the actual question, I'm midway on the models. I love the Champion helmet, the Aspiring Champion helmet and the one with the "mouth" thats wider at the top are ok. The rest... can't really stand them. If it was done all in a swept-back style, then it'd be great, or done on the faceplate similar to the Honour Guard.

Melchiah
27-04-2009, 05:32
Yes and no, If done so they dont look cartoony. Ive always wanted to do a NL army based around the Dark Knights and Dragoons of Final Fanasty. Wings in the style of the Ultramarines honourguard.

Hicks
27-04-2009, 05:34
I personally like them, out of the non-cult chaos legions, I think the NL are by far the coolest appearance and fluff-wise.

changer of fate
27-04-2009, 05:39
That was the entire point, to see how many people like it. Not to bash other people's opinions.

And to explore possible changes/alternatives.

well, that is not happening alot is it?

HK-47
27-04-2009, 05:52
Check out the illustration in the Chaos background section in the 5th ed. RB to see how uber cool they COULD be.

Can someone please post a picture of the image? I would love to see it, and it would be vary appreciated.

The be honest the biggest problems, with the night lords are GW's unwillingness to update there fluff. The very bases of the legions background is Batman and the "Heart of Darkness" novel. The bat ears are suppose to be over the top representation's of the Batman's mask. Konard Curze's name is a play of words on Joseph Conrad, and Kurtz the books villain. All of this cheapens them when it is done so tongue in cheek. It turns them for nightmares given flesh to well psychopathic batmen, with personality disorders.

They don't need wings on the helm to be scary; look at the actually helmet and you see it is very terrifying. The wings stick out to far to be practical, and that is what makes it funny, but that doesn't mean that helm ornaments are silly. Look at the Word Bearer warrior in the bottom right hand side of the pic, see how the horns don't stick out but up, they are are little to tall but they can be shortened. Look at the face plate, that daemonic visage, that is what a night lord trooper would go for, that is going to be the last and only thing your enemy will see before you crave him up. That hellish face hungering for his blood, feasting on his fear. The armour would be in dark tones that absorb light, with various trophies like bones, or flayed skin in "Lord of the night" a NL captin wore a necklace made from severed heads. The only parts of a NL you should see are the parts he wants you to see.

To end this rant, the wings are not practical in a force that makes extensive use of sneak attacks, and raptor troops. They need to be smaller and would only be used by berserker like troops who run at the enemy screaming their heads off.

577935779657795577985779957800

SimonL
27-04-2009, 06:14
Here we go...as you can see, it's got the actual lightning bolts as well, instead of painted on ones.

Hood
27-04-2009, 13:20
Nice... I just read the full 6 pages...! :p

1st of all no matter how many people dislike them or vote against them, if you really like them (and I mean YOU! Not how they appeal to your fellow players) it's not going to make you change the looks or like them any less...

Personally, I don't like them either. They are wings. They are not ears like in batman's helm. Azrael just had a big wingie cape that made him look "cooler". Wings belongs to the back of someone otherwise it's a waste of good space. I consider them like having limps sticking out of your ears... Well I don't find that scary although a little disturbing! :p

Moreover the seem to remind of the typical anime girl kind that has batwings or bunny ears or cat ears sticking out of their hair... and yes the batwing girls tend to be evil most of the time. But.... eeh... Badwing-ears anime girls... The worst they can do to you is give you a **** on! :/

And let's not disguss about the usefulness of having flappy batwings streching wide open from your helmet. The marines are blocks enough as they are. Putting them huge winglike antenas makes them even harder to hide... Imagine the troops croutching behind rumble and all the enemies see is a flock of batwings going up and down over some rocks...

The only thing that comes to my mind as being useful is when the marine gets decapitated and the head performs a double somersault before flying gracefully into the mud and giving the enemy a hard laugh. :p

Lord-Caerolion
27-04-2009, 13:42
I don't see how the Night Lords being based off Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness and Batman cheapens them, HK-47. Plus, I've never thought of the bat-wings as based of Batmans mask. Still, practically the entirety of 40k is ripped off something else, so everything is equally cheapened by the references.

Lastly, for everybody doubting the scariness of the wings, you have to remember that if the enemy isn't absolutely $&#*ing themselves by the time the Night Lords even begin to appear from the shadows, the Night Lords haven't done their job properly. By the time they appear, the civilians aren't facing Marines, they're facing the very daemons of Hell, taller than 10 men, that shoot fire from their eyes, and fly on wings of pure darkness.

Hood
27-04-2009, 13:46
Lastly, for everybody doubting the scariness of the wings, you have to remember that if the enemy isn't absolutely $&#*ing themselves by the time the Night Lords even begin to appear from the shadows, the Night Lords haven't done their job properly. By the time they appear, the civilians aren't facing Marines, they're facing the very daemons of Hell, taller than 10 men, that shoot fire from their eyes, and fly on wings of pure darkness.

Excactly... No mentioning of the badass batwings in this. They get scared from other aspects of their presence.

Lord-Caerolion
27-04-2009, 15:15
In that example though the wings change the silhouette. It modifies how the Night Lords are seen in the terror-haze, breaking up their human shape, making them inhuman, monstrous.
After all, a Marine is still human-shaped. You see the outline of one, and it isn't scary, subconsciously. However, the wings distort that human shape, making it unsettling, strange. Imagine what it would be like seeing a glimpse of a figure with wings on its head in the middle of a panic attack, you'd crap yourself.

Put simply, the wings look stupid on the models because you're not thinking of them the right way. They aren't meant to be seen directly, but to distort and warp your perspective of what it is you're facing. With this, they have a bigger effect than something with wings on its back. We can picture things with wings on its back. Angels, etc. Half seeing something comprised of recognised parts, yet arranged so strangely, gives that added psychological effect.
The Night Lords don't want to be seen as human, or even humanoid. They want to make your imagination go into overdrive creating the worst possible monstrosity you can think of, to not get a result of "Oh no! It's 'x'!", but "what the hell are those?!? RUN!"

Hood
27-04-2009, 15:27
I don't think that by putting limps where you're ears should be is scary... as I said, it is disturbing but not scary. Plus the wings on the head doesn't change the rest of their humanoid shape... nor do wings or tails. Having a body based on a spine with four limps is pretty much humanoid whatever the addons may be...

PS: I would **** my pants ten times more if I saw a demonic figure with horns and wings on the battlefield than someone with small wings on their ears... But again that's just me.

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 15:37
look at the night lords M.O

they turn up on little backwater planets to primative to realise whats happening to them, they change day to night (nuclear weapons in uninhabited areas) resulting in massive fallout, they take over communications and broadcast disturbing images and sounds to further demoralise their prey (and it is prey, not opponent)

night lords like to talk their time, attacking and falling back again, always keeping their prey in a state of terror

heck by the time the end comes everybody is already suffering severe radiation poisoning (hair, nails and teeth fall out) everybody is weak and dropping like flies, you cant even turn on a tv or radio without hearing/seeing the night lords messages to scare you

Allen
27-04-2009, 16:00
Here we go...as you can see, it's got the actual lightning bolts as well, instead of painted on ones.

Well, that's a damn good image!
I was just wondering if simply re-positioning the wings on the helmet could create a less silly iconic look...well, the answer apparently is yes.

With wings angled towards the back of the helmet and not towards the sides Night Lords could be less childish.

NightrawenII
27-04-2009, 16:29
Spiky marines without spikes but with bat-wings = epic win.

Col. Tartleton
27-04-2009, 16:36
Night Lords would to my understanding of their style fight alone.

They'd have already nuked planets into a nuclear winter, released bio weapons that cause fear like in Batman Begins and then emerge from the shadows to watch civilization tear itself apart and give some help where they can.

The fact they're giant gun toting super warriors is irrelevant, their real damage is psychological. A squad of them wouldn't be as scary because you'd conclude that they were a bit more mortal. Gods don't need back up ;)

So its dark, a lone Night Lord with a flame spewing raptor engine and glowing lightning claws and razor tipped raptor talons and a leering and fanged skull face with lightning rippling on his nigh blackened armor and beams of light pouring from his eyes. Eight Feet tall (the helm) and screaming with the sounds of the dying they'd be quite a sight flying thirty feet in the air on wings of flame. They'd rise and fall rhythmically picking off anyone who happens to be nearby with a well placed swipe of their talons. People running and screaming in crowds but unable to escape their pursuer...

That is a Night Lord.

HK-47
27-04-2009, 17:44
Here we go...as you can see, it's got the actual lightning bolts as well, instead of painted on ones.

That is much better, the ears sweep back and up and the wings does not start until it clears the head. It is a little to long they could lower it a bit. As I said in my post these kind of helmets are not going to be used by every trooper, and I think having them on every trooper is what makes it kind of silly. They, would be used on troops hows job is not to sneak around but run around screaming, or as a sign of rank.


I don't see how the Night Lords being based off Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness and Batman cheapens them, HK-47. Plus, I've never thought of the bat-wings as based of Batmans mask. Still, practically the entirety of 40k is ripped off something else, so everything is equally cheapened by the references.

Your right Lord-Caerolion, I took it to far when I said it cheapens them, I just think that GW tries to put to much tongue in cheek references in the Night Lord fluff. Like having Kurze's assassin being named M'Shen, and the over the top helms. I love the Night Lords I just want them to have more of a gothic image, with little sprinklings of Batman/Heart of Darkness. I want them to be the avenging ghosts of Konrad Curze, returning for the dead to bring justice to the Imperium that betrayed them. Not psychos who dress like bats and daemons to scare people for fun.

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 17:51
but thats who they are: they are a buch of psychos, the night lords were created from the not very nice people who lived on night haunters planet

they were the criminals, the gangs, the thugs and now theyre marines but deep down theyre still nasty people

Ubermensch Commander
27-04-2009, 17:56
@HK-47
But they ARE pyschos who dress like bats and demons to scare people for fun.
Only Lord of the Night gave us a sympathetic view of the Night Lords (and their IA, of course, but EVERY IA paints sympathetic view of the subject legion =) ) and even in Lord of the Night we are shown that the Talonmaster's view of his Legion may not have been all the accurate.

Of course, you can do what you like with your army, I am merely pointing out that "official" canon has them as sadistic sociopath who revel in sowing terror and hunt and kill because they feel like it, not for any higher purpose.

And I enjoy them for that myself.

Hood
27-04-2009, 18:07
Correct me if I am wrong but I think this isn't quite the subject...

No-one questions or comments of the fluff, character and appeal of the Nightlords... We were merely asked for our opinion about the batwings on the helmet...

Other than that I definately agree that the Nightlords are nice to play due to their theme and fluff!

Ubermensch Commander
27-04-2009, 18:24
@Hood
I suppose part of the fluff and theme was somewhat offtopic but it is ancillary to the topic of the Night Lords and their batwinged helms.
If one has a different "feel" to the Night Lords, as with what HK-47 seems to have described, then the Bat winged helms are a decided "no-no".
But if one doesnt mind the inherent baroqu nature and over-the-top stylized imagery of the Night Lords and Chaos in general (Horns, top nots, Tzeentchian/Khornate head doo dads, and bald heads for not apparant reason) then the Bat Wings fit in just dandy alongside the others and helps represent their nutjob nature.

Just my take on things, at any rate.

Hood
27-04-2009, 18:54
@Hood
I suppose part of the fluff and theme was somewhat offtopic but it is ancillary to the topic of the Night Lords and their batwinged helms.
If one has a different "feel" to the Night Lords, as with what HK-47 seems to have described, then the Bat winged helms are a decided "no-no".
But if one doesnt mind the inherent baroqu nature and over-the-top stylized imagery of the Night Lords and Chaos in general (Horns, top nots, Tzeentchian/Khornate head doo dads, and bald heads for not apparant reason) then the Bat Wings fit in just dandy alongside the others and helps represent their nutjob nature.

Just my take on things, at any rate.

Yes, that's exactly my point! It's not a matter of fitting in the theme (since they definately do) it's a matter whether most people find it appealing or not (ergo poll). Now trying to explain why someone likes them or not is a rather sensitive subject because where someone sees kitsch other see beauty and this leads to missunderstandings and insults towards one's taste. :)

Phoenix Blaze
27-04-2009, 18:54
Jesus, 7 pages and it seems that opinion is fairly divided.

I for one hate the damn things. Only on the Lord model did it look good, and even then it was a little silly. I always liked the 4th ed. Chaos Codex Night Lords artwork (that little side bit). Their armour wasn't all that corrupted, with no wings, horns or mutated bits. It really displayed the idea that they use chaos as a means to an end, not something to be worshipped and followed.

But yeah, bat wings, epic fail.

SimonL
27-04-2009, 18:57
The difference between Zso Sahaal's mentality and that of the "current" Night Lords is ten thousand years in the EoT. Krieg Acerbus is most definately the "terror and destruction for it's own sake" type. The Talonmaster is still in the Crusade-era mindset of terror as a tool of battle.

HK-47
28-04-2009, 04:29
The difference between Zso Sahaal's mentality and that of the "current" Night Lords is ten thousand years in the EoT. Krieg Acerbus is most definately the "terror and destruction for it's own sake" type. The Talonmaster is still in the Crusade-era mindset of terror as a tool of battle.

Yeah and I'm saying that I prefer Zso Sahaal's mentality and motives more, but don't take that to mean that I don't like post-heresy Night Lords. I love them in all the various forms they have taken, I just feel that the current style bat helms need an update.

The great thing about the Night Lords is that there motives can be anything and everything because they are not a unified legion anymore. Curze was the only thing holding them together now that he's gone they do whatever they want. So some can be fighting to avenge him, others because they like watching guardsmen void there bowels on themselves. All in all it makes for awesome fluff.

Edit:

This post from the other Night Lord thread pretty much sums up how I feel about them.


At this point we should start a new subforum just for discussing the night lords.

The lightning is real, the marines are giant, the lightning claws glow, the speakers howl, the jet engine shoots flames, the armor is pitch blue, the eyes shoot lasers, the bat helms flap, the mouth spits acid and the fangs bite into arteries. Their feet have bladed talons, their hair is black and silky evil, their eyes are blacker and blood shot their faces are gaunt and angry. They have chainsaw swords and rifled grenade machine pistols and ride huge choppers and whip people with lightning coated chains and light their skulled heads on fire and throw Molotov cocktails while they blast melodic metal.

Night Lords are crazy cool, just admit it.

Condottiere
28-04-2009, 06:44
I went through the first page and then skipped to the last.

I dislike the batwing helmets - however you could bulk up the shoulder pads and attach a batwing like cape.

Imperialis_Dominatus
28-04-2009, 07:56
But still yes to the "more Honor Guard" look.

Yes, or like the 5th ed. Rulebook.


I mean, no one is saying one thing is absolute.

Love you and all Rocker, but I really, really, really have to disagree with your generalization. Ahem:


Looks silly


Just look at it. It's nearly as ridiculous as Sanguinis.


No, it makes it look silly.


It looks silly and hilarious.


Because it looks like this:


Because it is. Look at the picture, see how silly and ridiculous it is.

Just... throwing it out there. He seems to be saying that "it looks silly because it looks silly."

You may thus understand my consternation.

Kikkoman in post 67 nailed it. He is very wise. We are blessed with his presence.

Oh, and by the way...


It's nearly as ridiculous as Sanguinis.

:rolleyes:

EDIT: Haha! I just tied the poll! 77 to 77. Whaaadup.

WastedWhiteBoy
28-04-2009, 09:11
I like the batwing helmets. Now, I agree that they should be swept back (like honor guard or in that awesome picture posted), but they're cool overall.

changer of fate
28-04-2009, 11:49
God! this thing is still going?

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 12:28
:rolleyes:

Note the massive wings atop helmet. Not to mention the ridiculous armour proportions. :)

NightrawenII
28-04-2009, 12:32
Note the massive wings atop helmet. Not to mention the ridiculous armour proportions. :)

But the original pict IS epic win. You cannot change this Zahr.:cool:

Imperialis_Dominatus
28-04-2009, 12:34
But the original pict IS epic win. You cannot change this Zahr.:cool:

Oh, but he can! If he simply says that it looks ridiculous and stupid... it is! The power of Dalsk!

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 13:17
But the original pict IS epic win. You cannot change this Zahr.

Regrettably, I don't have the original picture on hand :|

NightrawenII
28-04-2009, 15:32
I miss my good ol´comp.:cries:
But anyway I found this:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3443683&postcount=54
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=166173&st=0

Fixer
28-04-2009, 16:21
I used to play a friend that had Night Lords. He used the winged helms but sparingly, there were only a couple out of the batch he actually used which supplied me with a decent amount of spare heads to uses as base decoraction for my Salamanders.

I generally preferred the look of his regular Chaos guys though.

http://www.perfect-design.co.uk/salvsnight.jpg

Rockerfella
28-04-2009, 21:08
Yes, or like the 5th ed. Rulebook.



Love you and all Rocker, but I really, really, really have to disagree with your generalization. Ahem: Ah... *trumps*

Yeah... no worries brother. Love you too. I'm just saying, you know... asking someone several thousand times why they don't like something, kinda reminds me of that bad smell i've just produced that just wont go away.


Just... throwing it out there. He seems to be saying that "it looks silly because it looks silly." Aye, for sure. But, he is allowed to, just as the other culprit is allowed to ask him hundreds of times why he thinks its silly. Its just a sillt viscious circle this one, me thinks.

See, all I was trying to do was settle them both down and get them to agree to disagree. I'll never make a moderator eh (well, not with my warning points, anyways!) ;)




Kikkoman in post 67 nailed it. He is very wise. We are blessed with his presence. You know what? I'm sure you're right, but I just can't find the willpower right now to go back to that post. I'm a broken man...


Oh, and by the way... Here we go.....





EDIT: Haha! I just tied the poll! 77 to 77. Whaaadup.


Oh you didn't. *Sighs*

I'm gonna get me coat! ;)

Gensuke626
29-04-2009, 04:19
See, I like the way the "Wings" are presented there...because they're not presented as wings. The look more like weird demon things hovering somewhere above the Night Lord's head. In that way, the Massive Wings on the NL helms look cool. Personally, I'd prefer if the wings were some kind of weird Chaos/Xenos thing that could retract and pop out or change size as needed. Otherwise I really do think that the wings look silly.

HK-47
29-04-2009, 04:27
Note: This is a re-post of A comment that I made earlier, but deleted by mistake.

I don't know if people have seen this pic yet but it is perhaps one of the best representations on how Night Lords can look like.

The pic was done by PondaNagura, and I ask everyone to check out his newest thread in the Story & Art forum here: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3521549#post3521549

57957

kikkoman
29-04-2009, 04:57
You know what? I'm sure you're right, but I just can't find the willpower right now to go back to that post. I'm a broken man...


Don't believe in yourself
believe in me, who believes in you.

CommissarTanith
29-04-2009, 05:29
I actually like the wings on those helmets. Also aren't the actual model's wings smaller?

Logarithm Udgaur
29-04-2009, 05:42
If anything, the actual model's wings are larger. Chaos seems to have an obsession with overly large headgear. Indecently, I voted nay. It is bad enough that the NL Primarch is Batman, they do not need to look like Batman.

Rockerfella
29-04-2009, 06:50
Don't believe in yourself
believe in me, who believes in you.

But.... what if I do believe in myself? Can we not have a two way belief thing going on here? ;)

I'm not so broken now see. I've had more than four hours sleep. I'm rockin' again. *Raaauuughhhh!!!!!*

Inquisitor Engel
29-04-2009, 07:42
If anything, the actual model's wings are larger. Chaos seems to have an obsession with overly large headgear. Indecently, I voted nay. It is bad enough that the NL Primarch is Batman, they do not need to look like Batman.

Indeed.

In the artwork, the wings don't look that bad.

In model form, they look ridiculous.

In either case, they don't fit with the background and there's no legitimate reason to give them them, Alpha Legion don't have ridiculous snake heads do they? No, so don't give Night Lords bloody steering veins on their heads.

a squig
29-04-2009, 08:12
one word :ewwwwwwww

epic fail just call the nightlords, chapter batman and get it over with allready :rolleyes:

daemonkin
29-04-2009, 08:47
Think they would have looked better if they had been toned down slightly ala Batman. As it stands they are just the joke of the Traitor Legions. And the Alpha Legion.

D.

Koryphaus
29-04-2009, 09:07
y halo thar

Who are those guys? Why don't they have a codex or models?


:p

Vaktathi
29-04-2009, 09:32
I think the imagery was appropriate many years ago when 40k still had a sort of comic book flavor about it. I think now it should only be done on maybe a command model, as it's plainly silly for a stealth/blitz army for normal troopers.

Foolish Mortal
29-04-2009, 11:41
Just my tuppence, but I voted epic fail.

Like, many I don't like the rediculous sized headgear on most of the chaos range - topknots I remove & horns I can just about tolerate for champions, otherwise I use the more normal chaos helmets, plain marine helmets or try to remove as much as I can (like the Khorne bunny ears).

The batwings on the NL just leave me cold. They just make the models look top heavy, and leave the impression that no way are these guys going to be using much in the way of cover - hell they don't even look like they could get through a door without turning sideways. I'd much prefer to see skull/deamonic helmets.

I also don't feel thet add any kind of terror aspect either - after all which is more scary - bat wings, or the blood drenched 8 foot tall marine they are attached to?

jsullivanlaw
29-04-2009, 19:04
The batwing helmeted raptors with batwing jumpacks are the ugliest model in 40k in my opinion. Just...so...goofy. Looks like they have big floppy ears. I really like the new raptor models even if they are tough to balance.

Alessander
29-04-2009, 20:14
*hate* them. the awesome illustrations from the Night Lords' IA article was great, with the grotesque skull faces etc. But the models look like Mickey Mouse ears gone horribly wrong.

Kiras of the flame
30-04-2009, 07:50
mmm I must say that Night lords have over the top ears... (though GW dosen't seem to make a plastic version of this which might make them look cooler...)

I for one kinda like the idea of wings on helms... It adds more of the characters personality and Morales in it... Night lords might look scary if given the right situations... (They'd look scary in the dark and the light shined on their backs... showing the glowing lighting marks and the vicious red eyes...)

But then again in regular light... Those ears can be silly... as silly as having gigantic banners on your back but then again that's another discussion...

InquisitorNiels
30-04-2009, 19:19
Does the NL box come with shoulder pads as well? I dont really like the wings, but I think if used here and there in a army it wouldn't be too bad.

I had some Khorne zerker models, I cut off the ears on those and they look pretty bad ass. The one with a skull face is my favorite, I painted it too look like a skull and it really makes the model look scary.

Logarithm Udgaur
30-04-2009, 21:53
As a proud owner of a Night Lords army should not you know the answer already?

InquisitorNiels
01-05-2009, 00:42
As someone who built his army before it came out no, no I don't. Maybe I missed the answer in your post, was that a yes or a no?

sabreu
01-05-2009, 05:20
I voted epic fail: The bat wings on the helmet are unreasonably large for what is supposed to be a combat helmet. A parade helmet, maybe.

Seriously, how that doesn't effect their combat abilities is beyond me!

kylsnik ironhead
01-05-2009, 09:07
I think the imagery was appropriate many years ago when 40k still had a sort of comic book flavor about it. I think now it should only be done on maybe a command model, as it's plainly silly for a stealth/blitz army for normal troopers.

nah that wouldn't work out to well Let all the enemy snipers know who the leader is

WastedWhiteBoy
01-05-2009, 09:23
Well at least the dude with batwings on his helmet denoting hima leader actually has a helmet...unlike those thousands of guys who go around helmetless. :D

borithan
01-05-2009, 10:31
Hard Mode: Look at the picture without giggling or laughing.
Nightmare Mode: Without so much as a smile.Those wings are no problem. They are more subtle and smaller than the ones on the figures.

On that picture of five of the figures all of them are too large but the 3rd from the left (middle one) is ok in the design of the wings... the others just don't fit the shape...

Just out of interest, are the wings meant to move, as that might explain the different shapes of wings... and be a bit choasy.

Though would also be totally ridiculous looking, and in that case would be amusing... until the Marine smashed your face in.


Note the massive wings atop helmet. Not to mention the ridiculous armour proportions.Those wings don't bother me either. They complete the sort of "Knightly" shape of the helmet. Ridiculous armour proportions... not unique to that picture. My main problem is the wings... ie, the real ones, not the ones on his helmet... but then they may look ridiculous if he didn't have the wings on his back.

No, just thought about it. If he lost the wings, and shrank the shoulders, the head wings would still look ok.

The googley eyes don't help though. They really should have thought about that when they came up with the design.

Messiah
01-05-2009, 15:08
Don't believe in yourself
believe in me, who believes in you.

Go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb!