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Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:40
Just got back from reading the guard codex, this is not a joke unlike my last one.

Rough Riders rout Necrons in a massed cavalry charge.

Cadian 9th defeat a splinter fleet without losing a single company.

Sly Marbo destroys a Gargant.

Elder players weep, Harker and Al’raem both have killed an Autarch, each.

Several hundred tank companies managed to destroy a Chaos titan legion

Chekov pushed back the Vanguard of a hive fleet with a million guard.

The Krieg invade and conquer a rebel world refusing to give tithes.

A catachan regiment cut out the pheromone sacs from a lector and used to lure a tyranids swarm to it’s death.

Iron hand Straken killed a warboss.

There is a cool story about the vahallans who were sent into a combat zone without most of their weapons Enemy-at-the gates style and win.

The first person to kill an ethereal was a Ratling.

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 02:43
All that sounds pretty *******' sweet actually.

Hellebore
26-04-2009, 02:50
And so the fluff creep continues. At least it appears as though they will give it out more or less equally to everything, I was afraid it would be confined to the marine codex.

I think the ratling killing the ethereal is FUNNY rather than ridiculous though. Snipers ftw.

Not sure what Alrahem was doing fighting eldar, he was pretty much fighting on one planet against chaos. Obviously they increased his background to make him more interesting. Do they explain the methods in which the Autarchs were dispatched? You would have a hard time replicating it on the TT.

None of them killed chaos marines? Or renegade marines? Or slightly surly marines? No marine casualties at all?

Hellebore

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 02:53
Al'rahem killing an Autarch makes a certain amount of sense because, IIRC, Tallarn was invaded by Eldar right before it was invaded by demons. Then they joined forces.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 02:55
Not sure what Alrahem was doing fighting eldar, he was pretty much fighting on one planet against chaos. Obviously they increased his background to make him more interesting. Do they explain the methods in which the Autarchs were dispatched? You would have a hard time replicating it on the TT.



It was noted that this may not be the same Alrahem that fought against chaos, just a man with the same name. The fight took place over many weeks in a cat-an-mouse game of amubush and light infantry battles when Alrahem caught the Autarch in a crossfire.

Harker did the same thing but in a single ambush.




None of them killed chaos marines? Or renegade marines? Or slightly surly marines? No marine casualties at all?



There was, Creed's battle against the chaos marine lord Brule was documented and the Vahallans where currently reported as winning against some Iron Warriors on some forge world. There are also actions taken against the Red Corsairs. The Cadians slowed down one of the Black Legion's raids in time for the Fists to arrive.

Hellebore
26-04-2009, 03:02
They may have retconned the Battle of The Cursus, but I don't think it was concurrent with the existence of Al'Rahem. The Tallarn are my favourite guard regiment, although I never liked Al'rahem's model much, looked too Oil Shiek and not enough Bedouin Horse Lord.

They killed the Autarchs with gunfire? Well that to me is an acceptible kill. Enough of anything will kill most things. If they'd gone for a one on one duel to the death it would have been a little wierd.

Sounds good. I will definitely purchase this codex. I refused to purchase the marine one (the first codex I have not bought since codicies were invented in 1993) as my protest (not that I expect it to do much).

Hellebore

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 03:02
Guardsmen beating Marines in their codex fluff? I never thought I'd live to see the day. :cries: :p :D

Hellebore
26-04-2009, 03:05
It remains to be seen whether they will be a result of bad marine syndrome or not. If later codicies don't have marine heroes being killed by aliens then it would be a pretty good evidence for the idea that only bad marines get killed off that easily. It wouldn't do to have loyal marines being killed by guardsmen in this codex though, so we'll have to wait for the next non Imperial codex to find out (perhaps dark eldar?).

Hellebore

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 03:06
It wouldn't do to have loyal marines being killed by guardsmen in this codex though, so we'll have to wait for the next non Imperial codex to find out (perhaps dark eldar?).

Hellebore

Why would Guardsmen fight loyal marines?

Hellebore
26-04-2009, 03:11
That's what I meant. It wouldn't do to have them fighting against each other in the codex. You can come up with all sorts of justifications for two loyal groups fighting each other (I see this all the time with two marine players trying to figure out why the white scars are fighting the ultramarines) but you can't put it in the codex.

Idaan put in a thread a little while ago some stuff about Harker (the poster boy for the cadians? is that his name?) which sounded really cool. Rescuing governors, executing his own men because they were becoming mutated by chaos etc. Sounds cool.

Hellebore

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 03:15
I see the fact that some marines, evil or not, are shown as being bested by Guardsmen as evidence that GW has heard the bitching about the IG's rough treatment in fluff and has done something about it.

That is far more important to me than whether or not Sphess Mehrines are being treated "special."

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 03:15
That's what I meant. It wouldn't do to have them fighting against each other in the codex. You can come up with all sorts of justifications for two loyal groups fighting each other (I see this all the time with two marine players trying to figure out why the white scars are fighting the ultramarines) but you can't put it in the codex.

Idaan put in a thread a little while ago some stuff about Harker (the poster boy for the cadians? is that his name?) which sounded really cool. Rescuing governors, executing his own men because they were becoming mutated by chaos etc. Sounds cool.

Hellebore

It was Lukas Bastonne.

Of and now Cadians don't have Kasrkin, they now have ''more Veteran squads then any other regiment'' and that they are formed from surviviors of destroyed companies

Of yeah and their are much emphasis on varied regiment numbers, Chekov has 120,000 in his regiment.

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 03:16
Of yeah and their are much emphasis on varied regiment numbers, Chekov has 120,000 in his regiment.

No kidding! That is a legitimate regiment. No wonder he has the "Bring in the Next Wave!" power.

Does it say if those 120,000 are all riflemen, or does it have a certain armored and artillery element?

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 03:18
No kidding! That is a legitimate regiment. No wonder he has the "Bring in the Next Wave!" power.

Does it say if those 120,000 are all riflemen, or does it have a certain armored and artillery element?

Riflemen, the new guard codex is big on regiments only containing one type of solider and little else. In order to reduce the effectivness of rebellions. An instance was specifically noted.

Zahr Dalsk
26-04-2009, 04:06
The Krieg invade and conquer a rebel world refusing to give tithes.

I don't really see what's wrong with this? Was it only a single regiment? More details, please.

Horus38
26-04-2009, 05:07
Some of it sounds like some cool fluff, I'll definitely want to peruse it myself. HOWEVER, gonna have to raise a voice of objection on this one:


Cadian 9th defeat a splinter fleet without losing a single company.

Say wha!? :wtf: Last time I remembered I.G. were the ones who WERE all up and about taking casualties and soldiering on through it. This one just reeks of fluff creep "OMG, look what the Guard did to NIDS!!" Not a single casualty my ass.

EDIT: can someone clarify if this was meant to imply they didn't lose an entire company, or a suffer casualties. Also how many men make up a company in the I.G.?

DarkMatter2
26-04-2009, 05:16
Say wha!? :wtf: Last time I remembered I.G. were the ones who WERE all up and about taking casualties and soldiering on through it. This one just reeks of fluff creep "OMG, look what the Guard did to NIDS!!" Not a single casualty my ass.

EDIT: can someone clarify if this was meant to imply they didn't lose an entire company, or a suffer casualties. Also how many men make up a company in the I.G.?

Isn't this the Hive Fleet Scarabus incursion?

Which means that a Nid splinter fleet attacked a super highly entrenched guard force in the battle of Fortress Carcasson and got slaughtered.

The caption to the picture was always, "The Cadian 9th devastates Hive Fleet Scarabus"

And from what the OP posted they didn't lose a single company - a company being composed of several platoons, probably anywhere from 100-400 men.

Vote Kantor
26-04-2009, 05:19
WOW, finally something in my codex i can ARGUE WITH, do we kill up any other tau?

Also with the splinter fleet thing, I want to know too, i dont want to be to ott.

I think my favorite of those is the Catachan luring in tyranids with a lictors pheramones.

Brother Siccarius
26-04-2009, 06:29
Oh noes, people is being awesome in there codex! Weze must stop this because our people aren't awesome enough in our own codex! We can't have anyone else being cool or doing something neat based off of absolutely no details and only a basis description of what other people did!

Now back to marines! Blah blah barg, *mention the same three small passages in a single codex that was meant as in character fluff and a "historical retelling"*
^
[]
[]
Eldar OMGers, that's what you sound like.

Landsknecht
26-04-2009, 08:12
Perhaps the Cadian 9th had every company whittled down to a single man. The entire division took 99% casualties, but there was at least one survivor from the Company strength sub-units. Look sir, every company accounted for!

Idaan
26-04-2009, 10:03
I have a pirate copy of the Codex, for preview purposes only, cause I'm buying it either way, and I find no guilt in it. Maybe only Commander Pask's exploits raise my eyebrow, but then again he's based on Michael Wittman, so anything is possible.

Where does it say that Harker killed an Autarch? His entry only mentions him fighting Tyranid Ravener, and the only error is the loud crack when he kills it, as Tyranids have no skeleton.

I also can't find mentions of Rough Riders killing Necrons and Sly Marbo destroying a Gargant (though he obviously destroyed it with a demo-charge, not in hand-to-hand).

Al'Rahem killing an Autarch:

During the Battle for the Ruins of Esko's Moon, Al'Rahem and his Desert Raiders fought a protracted guerilla war against the elusive Eldar, a war in which both sides were utilising a hit-and-run style of warfare. It was Al'Rahem who broke the deadlock, claiming the head of Autarch Kaliell in a carefully constructed crossfire for which the Tallarn commander and a hand-picked platoon of Desert Raiders trekked half-way across the moon's equatorial continent to strike at the ruin's lightly defended, and supposedly unreachable southern pass.
Well, the Eldar lost not because of their idiocy or storming a fixed position without heavy support, but because of Al'Rahem pulling a Fremen/Lawrence of Araby on them. I'd say they had no right to expect humans slogging it through the desert for several months probably. And it didn't end in him uppercutting the Autarch with his oversized fist in one on one duel.

It's not that the Eldar fans don't like Eldar losing. Nobody moaned because of the Eldar losing in CSM codex, Ork codex or anything. It is only when something unreplaceable, like a Craftworld destroyed or an Avatar killed in a senseless way when the outrage rises.

Besides, Codex Imperial Guard is much, much better written than Marines. Compare:

When Calgar travels Ultramar on tours of inspection he is met with adulating crowds that roar his name with a passion sadly lacking in other Imperial domains. The people of Ultramar believe to their very core that in Marneus Calgar they have a leader who will fight until stars turn cold, not only for the Emperor but for Mankind itself. or Lysander running from Medrengard naked and then being accepted without any objections back into the Chapter, everyone cheering, singing merry songs, throwing rose petals etc

On the other hand we have:

Whatever the truth, it is without doubt that Marbo is a man who has been through hell and back too many times to remain completely sane. The blood and death he has witnessed have warped Marbo to the point where he can only function with a blade in his hand. His eyes are empty when he isn't stalking the foe and his actions are lacklustre unless he's carving his name into the enemy's chest. (...) If this is all true, Marbo gives no sign. He simply stares vacantly into space until given his next assignment by his superiors

I surely know which I prefer. I don't find Guard Codex over the top at all, and can only hope that next codices will live up to it.

Iracundus
26-04-2009, 10:28
Where does it say that Harker killed an Autarch? His entry only mentions him fighting Tyranid Ravener, and the only error is the loud crack when he kills it, as Tyranids have no skeleton.


Actually that's not an error. In the 3rd ed. Tyranid Codex, there is an autopsy (lifted/copied from Sherman Bishop's Tyranid site) that describes Tyranids having both internal skeleton and external exoskeleton.

Badger[Fr]
26-04-2009, 10:53
I bought the IG Codex at the French GD, and the background section indeed mentions Attilans repelling a Necron incursion on a Forgeworld (that's where Kamir's mechanical horse comes from) and Harker killing an Autarch in an ambush on a Death world.

Oh, and there is a very cynical (and therefore amusing) piece of fluff for the Krieg lovers...

Tae
26-04-2009, 11:32
I was personally disappointed with the fluff in the Guard codex. Not because of it's quality, but rather because of it's quantity.

I saw the size of the codex and my eyes lit up, I was getting ready to read a massive swathe of background fluff.

Alas, it was not to be. Sure there's a bit of generic fluff, and then all the actual units (and, to be fair, there are a lot of them) have their individual fluff, I just would have prefered more generic type fluff in the codex. More stories, more amusing tales etc. etc.

So far nothing has lived up to the fluff in the Ork codex, that was simply amazing.

TheFloatingHead
26-04-2009, 14:07
;3511318']I bought the IG Codex at the French GD, and the background section indeed mentions Attilans repelling a Necron incursion on a Forgeworld (that's where Kamir's mechanical horse comes from) and Harker killing an Autarch in an ambush on a Death world.

Oh, and there is a very cynical (and therefore amusing) piece of fluff for the Krieg lovers...

How so? I'm curious now. Glad to hear my favorite army is getting some recognition.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 14:12
I have a pirate copy of the Codex, for preview purposes only, cause I'm buying it either way, and I find no guilt in it. Maybe only Commander Pask's exploits raise my eyebrow, but then again he's based on Michael Wittman, so anything is possible.

Where does it say that Harker killed an Autarch? His entry only mentions him fighting Tyranid Ravener, and the only error is the loud crack when he kills it, as Tyranids have no skeleton.

I also can't find mentions of Rough Riders killing Necrons and Sly Marbo destroying a Gargant (though he obviously destroyed it with a demo-charge, not in hand-to-hand).



It's in the timeline section. The codex floating around the internet is only the latter half of the book with the rules. I saw the full codex.

Captain Corallis
26-04-2009, 16:30
I saw a shop copy of the codex and some of the stories seem actually quite good.
Lukas Bastonne having a perfect memory of every trooper who had died under his command actually made me care rather than just having an awesome guardsman sergeant who acts as the poster boy.
Similarly the Nork Dedog fluff made me laugh out loud as he is less of the doltish fool and more of the utterly naive and loyal guard dog.

Cpt Corallis

Talos
26-04-2009, 17:17
Several hundred tank companies managed to destroy a Chaos titan legion



Actual it was just one titan and it was bombed for a whole day by a arty company which seems likely to me, Even a titan cant survive a whole day of bombardment.

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 18:21
Actual it was just one titan and it was bombed for a whole day by a arty company which seems likely to me, Even a titan cant survive a whole day of bombardment.

No, that was in the Basilisk section, their was another timeline section where an entire renagade legion was destroyed.

Talos
26-04-2009, 19:21
oh sorry I only got the codex a few days ago and I skipped over the timeline. My mistake.

Poseidal
26-04-2009, 22:13
Hmm, looks like a big improvement over the new Marine 'dex in terms of fluff so far.

How much new stuff is there and how much are reprints?

Lord_Crull
26-04-2009, 22:18
There is a lot of new stuff with only a very few reprints.

MajorWesJanson
26-04-2009, 23:03
On Kreig: They spend 10 years laying waste to a hive which revolted, bombarding it into dust. They finally ended 5 years after the hive unconditionally surrendered, and 2 years after there was any sign of life left.

Ubermensch Commander
26-04-2009, 23:17
Actually I am glad someone else pointed out the "over the top" sheenanigans in the Guard Codex.
It just proves the point: Crying about what Calgar did or "OMG MAREENZ IS OP!" is nonsense as it can be aimed at every army in the 40K cosmos. They all get pimped out in their codex or BL novels.
One particularly stands out in my mind; Pask taking out a CHAOS TITAN in one shot with his Leman Russ. wow. Ok, his tank company gets "no less than 4 titan class kills"...pushing it...but ok. But the one shot THROUGH THE TORSO is what gets me. Not even a Death Star tunnel shaft weakness type kill? ahhhhh...sucks to be you Titan guy!
Also. Straken is shenanigans. But thats more of a rules issue, not a fluff issue.

Oh and Bastonne and his squad fighting through the shuffling Plaguebearers....no casualties....sure why not?

Mannimarco
26-04-2009, 23:54
the guard have always been about OTT heroics that are never mentioned and dont recieve the same level of hate that the marines get

remember theres a regiment out there who are so badass that everybody want to be like them, others have been known to copy their uniforms to just look like them, thats the cadians, did they get any hate for that quote?

how about the armoured vetran regiment who killed over 200 enemy armoured vehicles in one day, did anybody scream OTT at that?thats the narmenian 1st as they appeared in the book necropolis

Hellebore
27-04-2009, 00:11
Actually I am glad someone else pointed out the "over the top" sheenanigans in the Guard Codex.
It just proves the point: Crying about what Calgar did or "OMG MAREENZ IS OP!" is nonsense as it can be aimed at every army in the 40K cosmos. They all get pimped out in their codex or BL novels.
One particularly stands out in my mind; Pask taking out a CHAOS TITAN in one shot with his Leman Russ. wow. Ok, his tank company gets "no less than 4 titan class kills"...pushing it...but ok. But the one shot THROUGH THE TORSO is what gets me. Not even a Death Star tunnel shaft weakness type kill? ahhhhh...sucks to be you Titan guy!
Also. Straken is shenanigans. But thats more of a rules issue, not a fluff issue.

Oh and Bastonne and his squad fighting through the shuffling Plaguebearers....no casualties....sure why not?



It only proves the point NOW, not at the time the marine codex was released.

I'd still rather more sane stories, but that's just me. So long as all armies are treated equally in that regard it doesn't matter. The real test will be to see if marines get humilitated in stupid ways in alien codicies, otherwise it's a deliberated bias to show marines are awesome.

Hellebore

Bunnahabhain
27-04-2009, 00:31
On the Pask one, I though there were a few circumstances around it.

1: He was inside the shields/they were down

2: He was in a vanquisher, which is specified as penetrating titans with relative ease

3: He was behind it, and aiming at an already damaged section

= boom

A well trained and equipped armoured regiment scoring 200 vehicle kills in a day seems perfectly sensible. Isn't the set up essentially an Imperial ambush of the Orks, in ideal terrain, with large, mobile reserves ready to take advantage of it?

The one that got me was the sniper.
They seemed to be making a fuss of a 300 meter shot. That's rather less than the reasonable engagement range for a standard assault rifle, as used now, let alone what a sniper can achive....
That, and the Imperium actually telling the branches of the military that killing the etherals is a good idea, rather than suppressing this knowledge of xenos as too dangerous to be trusted to the troops.

I like the emphasis on fighting Orks. They should be common, dangerous, but easy to score impressive victories against. Of course, there are always more Orks....

Lord_Crull
27-04-2009, 01:05
The one that got me was the sniper.
They seemed to be making a fuss of a 300 meter shot. That's rather less than the reasonable engagement range for a standard assault rifle, as used now, let alone what a sniper can achive....
That, and the Imperium actually telling the branches of the military that killing the etherals is a good idea, rather than suppressing this knowledge of xenos as too dangerous to be trusted to the troops.




The ratling just shot at the ethereal because he looked important, it was in the Damocles crusade. but I don't get where you say that the Imperium supresses information on killing xenos. I would expect every trooper told ot shoot at the ethereals in the same way they are told ot shoot at the big ones against tyranids.




A well trained and equipped armoured regiment scoring 200 vehicle kills in a day seems perfectly sensible. Isn't the set up essentially an Imperial ambush of the Orks, in ideal terrain, with large, mobile reserves ready to take advantage of it?



It was the Narmeians and it was in a hive city, they where facing rebels and they where heavily outnumbered. So no.

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 01:46
exactly my point, 200 kills in one day, fairly well matched, did anybody scream OTT at it? being in the guard? OTT is what we do

gamer2456
27-04-2009, 01:58
just saw the codex at the LFGS. my favorite piece so far was an entry about the speed of information getting to the munitorium. They assigned a destroyed regiment to a new battlegroup preparing to assault a massive fortress. A couple entries later (and a couple years in the timeline) down the page, that same regiment is charged for desertion.

also, the Krieg piece about the hive city siege was darkly humorous. bombarding the crap out of the rebels for 10 years despite that they surrendered after the first 5 and there were no more signs of life in the city after 8.

Brother Siccarius
27-04-2009, 02:07
It only proves the point NOW, not at the time the marine codex was released.

I'd still rather more sane stories, but that's just me. So long as all armies are treated equally in that regard it doesn't matter. The real test will be to see if marines get humilitated in stupid ways in alien codicies, otherwise it's a deliberated bias to show marines are awesome.

Hellebore

The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense.
Samuel Clemons

History is stranger than fiction, we just accept it cause it happened.

FashaTheDog
27-04-2009, 02:20
Well Lord_Crull, the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, Damocles Edition, instructs "If you kill the Etherreals the rest of the tau will waver and flee." It continues in the entry with "Kill the Ethereals!"

And gamer2456, that bit about the Krieg bombardment just makes me even happier I've started a Krieg army, although I'm not sure yet if I will switch from the Forgeworld list to the standard Codex as I have yet to see the new Codex.

Col. Tartleton
27-04-2009, 02:48
I'm not sure what the problem is. The guard have numbered in the trillions for thousands of years. With those kinds of numbers in the field around the Imperium there will of course be the occasional number of insanely over the top goodness. The codex isn't suggesting that this is a good picture of how the forces function is it? Ultimately they're just saying some thing along the lines of this.

"This one time back when I was a Guardsman we totally went off on this force that outnumbered us ten to one. Yeah, you should have seen how hammered the Gunny was that after that night. I'm still amazed he could drink that much Amasec with no legs. Good man gunny was. Certainly didn't deserve that Tyranid ripper to the face on Tryumph. *shudders* Damn. Well I've seen more'n my share of terrors, heck I've even **** myself a few times on the line. No secrets boyo, but truth be told that's part of the experience. Besides if I didn't enlist I'd never have met your mother."

Felwether
27-04-2009, 02:56
The Tallarn are my favourite guard regiment, although I never liked Al'rahem's model much, looked too Oil Shiek and not enough Bedouin Horse Lord.

Haha. I like that.

Marshal2Crusaders
27-04-2009, 02:56
Who in their right mind would expect to see marines being beaten by guard in the fluff, they are on the same side. If you mean Chaos Marines, there are several instances of them being beaten.

Zahr Dalsk
27-04-2009, 03:45
Who in their right mind would expect to see marines being beaten by guard in the fluff, they are on the same side. If you mean Chaos Marines, there are several instances of them being beaten.

How about Guard rescuing Marines?

Marshal2Crusaders
27-04-2009, 04:40
That would be a cool story.

Johnnyfrej
27-04-2009, 04:49
I have two favorites in the new Guard fluff.

First is for the Krieg fans. A regiment was sent with some Imperial investigators/embassaries to a Hive that was rumored as going rogue. After the Hive leaders finished hanging the embassaries the Korpsmen surrounded the Hive and started a siege. It took 10 years to completely demolish the kilometer-high Hive into nothingness, 5 years after the city gave their unconditional surrender and 2 years after all life in the Hive was dead.

Second in the little info bit under the Hydra entry. It talks about Hydras occasionally being merged into massive regimental Anti-Aircraft units. It then mentions this famous one (I forget the name) that managed to get an impressive 99,999-to-one kill ratio for downing Dropships(or infantry, the book doesn't specify as I recall) during a Chaotic planitary assault.
edit: Fixed Hydra ratio.

Hellebore
27-04-2009, 04:56
99,999 to 1 is a very confusing number. It really can't refer to drop ships to hydra ratio can it? No one drops that many ships.

So it must mean infantry to infantry ratio. Or at least it better.

Hellebore

w00tm0ng3r
27-04-2009, 05:14
exactly my point, 200 kills in one day, fairly well matched, did anybody scream OTT at it? being in the guard? OTT is what we do

Actually 200 kills in one day has been achieved in RL battles. In the Battle of Prokhorovka (part of the larger Kursk battle) 400 German tanks slugged it out with 850 Soviet tanks... and win. Actually, they practically raped the Russians, taking out 300 Soviet tanks for 70 German ones (these are only the ones that couldn't be repaired, numbers for tanks taken out in total would be even more heavily skewed towards the Germans because German tanks were hard to fix and Russian tanks were easy to fix)... Infantry kill/death ratios are even better: 5,500 Soviets died taking out 850 SS mother****ers.

Now obviously this involves a German army instead of an IG regiment, but the Wh40k universe can get pretty jacked up with the numbers. Ex: Chekov and his 120,000 man "regiment", that's enough for a full blown army circa WWI if you take "army" to mean two corps of 60,000 each! For the uninitiated, military organization goes man, fireteam, squad (8-12 dudes), platoon (30-50 guys), company (100-300), battalion (about 1,000), regiment/brigade (3,000), division (15,000), corps (30,000), army (60,000), army group (everyone on the front).

w00tm0ng3r
27-04-2009, 05:20
99,999 to 1 is a very confusing number. It really can't refer to drop ships to hydra ratio can it? No one drops that many ships.

So it must mean infantry to infantry ratio. Or at least it better.

Hellebore

Missed a 9 there buddy, the guy said 999,999 ;)

But ya, I smell BS because I doubt anyone even HAS a million dropships to get killed. Chaos generally tends to be pretty small scale, and I don't think anything less than an entire system fleet would have that kind of dropship support.

MajorWesJanson
27-04-2009, 05:23
Missed a 9 there buddy, the guy said 999,999 ;)

But ya, I smell BS because I doubt anyone even HAS a million dropships to get killed. Chaos generally tends to be pretty small scale, and I don't think anything less than an entire system fleet would have that kind of dropship support.

Dropships covers anything that can carry troops, from drop pod and aquilla landers on up. If the enemy is trying to land a couple billion troops, which is possible in some battles, you will have that many dropships and craft flying around. Codex IG has some nice references to the maximalist end of 40K, like the tank regiments vs titan legion and that one rather large levy of regiments.

madprophet
27-04-2009, 05:33
Actually, the new codex actually lets the guard perform more like a 20th century force - granted they don't have the high tech toys a modern US Army combat brigade or even a USMC battalion can lay its hands on but they can function like a Vietnam-era US Army Infantry company or something out of the Arab-Israeli wars of the 1950's and 60's.

With the right leadership, those forces did some pretty kick-a$$ stuff. The US 101st Airborne held Bastonne against some pretty frightening odds, while Patton disengaged and shifted his forces 150 miles west and without stopping for rest engaged the Germans and relieved Bastonne.

Or in 1948 less than 10,000 Hagannah combat effectives kicked seven shades of brick dust out of the British trained and commanded Arab Legion and the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia.

or a ragtag bunch of American militia men managed to kick the biggest, baddest empire out of the 13 Colonies.

or...

You get the idea.

Hellebore
27-04-2009, 06:06
Missed a 9 there buddy, the guy said 999,999 ;)

But ya, I smell BS because I doubt anyone even HAS a million dropships to get killed. Chaos generally tends to be pretty small scale, and I don't think anything less than an entire system fleet would have that kind of dropship support.

I missed a 9 because he added a 9. The text says 99,999. I can only assume it's talking about renegade guardsmen to loyalist guardsmen.

Hellebore

Johnnyfrej
27-04-2009, 06:22
I missed a 9 because he added a 9. The text says 99,999. I can only assume it's talking about renegade guardsmen to loyalist guardsmen.

Hellebore
Or I just forgot the real number and only remembered it had lots of 9's :D

Hellebore
27-04-2009, 06:27
Sounds like a plan. :cool:

Hellebore

Dictator
27-04-2009, 06:54
I actually think the new guard dex paints a very reasonable non-OTT picture of the guard. I love it!

Landsknecht
27-04-2009, 07:44
I have two favorites in the new Guard fluff.

First is for the Krieg fans. A regiment was sent with some Imperial investigators/embassaries to a Hive that was rumored as going rogue. After the Hive leaders finished hanging the embassaries the Korpsmen surrounded the Hive and started a siege. It took 10 years to completely demolish the kilometer-high Hive into nothingness, 5 years after the city gave their unconditional surrender and 2 years after all life in the Hive was dead.

That's a big waste of resources. If they accepted the surrender they could have killed the heretic ring leaders, some various thousands to prove a point, and saved the machinery, factories, etc.

Silly Kriegers, jealous of other people still having cities :p

LexxBomb
27-04-2009, 08:21
or a ragtag bunch of American militia men managed to kick the biggest, baddest empire out of the 13 Colonies.
.

hate to tell you this but the militias did squat... British Forces Only began to take serious losses after the American regimets were trained by a german and started using British tactics against the British... Also If England had actually used its true military might against the colonies, the revolutionaries would not have stood a chance...

DarkMatter2
27-04-2009, 09:08
Also If England had actually used its true military might against the colonies, the revolutionaries would not have stood a chance...

Thats always the excuse isn't it?

Marshal2Crusaders
27-04-2009, 10:25
Quit with the Revolution talk, all it does is perpetuate conflict between English speakers for Christ's Sakes. We need unity not division.

Poseidal
27-04-2009, 10:39
Is there any fluff on the chem cannon? I'm interested to have know how it justifies AP3 as it is not like fantasy where it represents breathing in gas; many suits in 40k are sealed.

Marshal2Crusaders
27-04-2009, 10:41
Corrosive?

Maren
27-04-2009, 11:37
What I want to know is did we kill any tau? COME ON MAN TELL ME!!!
If we can defeat a nid splinterfleet without recieving too many casualties we should be able to smack some sense into some god-damned space commies!!!!!!!!

LexxBomb
27-04-2009, 13:01
they are not communists (or in anyway marxist)
in a marxist society there is no class or castes. they are more inline with a Facist form of society in which one group (caste) runs the society with the remainder (castes) serving the rulers. (much like the Nazis [with the Jewish population forming a castes])

laudarkul
27-04-2009, 13:28
hate to tell you this but the militias did squat... British Forces Only began to take serious losses after the American regimets were trained by a german and started using British tactics against the British... Also If England had actually used its true military might against the colonies, the revolutionaries would not have stood a chance...

From what I know the American's were helped a lot by the France...In fact the Monarchist regime in France just went bankruptcy after helping the Americans; so in the end thanks to their involvement in American-Brit War they get a revolution:D.
The new Guard fluff seems more plausible; they could put some more pages (I would happily pay the same price as for SM codex if they would have the same page number) with some fluff and modeling. It does not contain mega-overpowered stuff and if some facts seems a little bit over let's just not forget that they refer to a percent of 0,00....001% of humans. This proportion in fact it's toooooo damn small but....

DrMabutu
27-04-2009, 13:28
Is there any fluff on the chem cannon? I'm interested to have know how it justifies AP3 as it is not like fantasy where it represents breathing in gas; many suits in 40k are sealed.

Well its description says:

They smother their targets in broiling clouds of noxious gas that dissolves organic material in moments. The victims blood boils in their own viens and their flesh sloghs from bone as the mixture of toxins do their horrific work.



What I want to know is did we kill any tau? COME ON MAN TELL ME!!!
If we can defeat a nid splinterfleet without recieving too many casualties we should be able to smack some sense into some god-damned space commies!!!!!!!!


In the timeline sections it has a bit about the Cytheria campaign against Tau. It is the same bit that is in the main rulebook (Catachans fighting in jungles managing to kill an Ethereal).

Theres also a story about a Ratling called Mogogg getting the first recorded kill of an Ethereal.

Another little cool thing is the picture in Sly Marbo's section. It shows him blowing a canyon right on top of a load of Tau Hammerhead tanks.

laudarkul
27-04-2009, 13:31
Well its description says:
They smother their targets in broiling clouds of noxious gas that dissolves organic material in moments. The victims blood boils in their own viens and their flesh sloghs from bone as the mixture of toxins do their horrific work.

Almost the same description of the poisonous gas used by the Nurgle Marines against DKoK regiment on Vraks. The gas was in Imperium Depots but since the ruler of Vraks went traitor the CSM just take that gas and use it against the former owners.

KingDeath
27-04-2009, 13:39
I think it is somewhat odd that the chemcanon's gas gets trough power armour or even carapace ( which has often been described as being sealed ).
Perhaps it is some mild form of the lifeeater which eats trough the less ressistant parts of the armour?

laudarkul
27-04-2009, 13:54
Perhaps on small areas the poisonous gas is eating armour and bones and flesh; it's just consume everything.

Poseidal
27-04-2009, 15:17
Perhaps on small areas the poisonous gas is eating armour and bones and flesh; it's just consume everything.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be just represented by just failing the armour save?

If it's corrosive enough to dissolve power armour, why does it do so little to vehicles? Even really light ones?

:s

Idaan
27-04-2009, 15:56
Why do poisoned attacks work against Wraithlords and not Ork Deffdreadz etc etc. It's a game mechanic.

I'm interested, are some cool new regiments mentioned? Preferrably with pictures?

laudarkul
27-04-2009, 16:28
Unfortunately not...Pictures only with the classics: Cadian, Catachan,Mordian,Tallarn Armageddo Steel Legion,Valhallan and Vostroyan. New names of Regiments: Targus Home Warden, Jornian, Pintax, Luther McIntyre, Loriar, Brimlock, Jjojox, Athanos, K'phrani, Aegis, Morax, Rassiosan, Bannan, Paragon, Barac, Ulani, Dulma'lin, Kanak, Molov, Agathon.
Even the Light Brigade charge is ;)...

Firaxin
27-04-2009, 16:34
Chaos generally tends to be pretty small scale
What?!

That's 1/10 of a million drop ships. Not even, because you're forgetting all the separate shuttles required to carry vehicles and ammunition stores. Plus the fighter support that comes down with the drop ships. I'd reckon only about half of them are full of infantry. That's not very much, considering the scale chaos can attack on.

NightrawenII
27-04-2009, 17:25
None of them killed chaos marines? Or renegade marines? Or slightly surly marines? No marine casualties at all?

Hellebore

heh.:evilgrin:
Good point Hellebore.


Perhaps the Cadian 9th had every company whittled down to a single man. The entire division took 99% casualties, but there was at least one survivor from the Company strength sub-units. Look sir, every company accounted for!

This make laugh and the sad:eyebrows: thing is; its propably true.:angel:

Brother Siccarius
27-04-2009, 18:33
Just want to clear this up.

exactly my point, 200 kills in one day, fairly well matched, did anybody scream OTT at it? being in the guard? OTT is what we do

It was a Novel, not exactly pure background, and the Chaos army was fighting an entrenched Imperial Army. The Chaos Forces were funneled in through the few gates into the Hive, making it easy to whittle down the tracked MBTs and other main vehicles used, no matter how you swing it. The only other vehicles they had were walkers, who had to reveal their underbellies when climbing the walls, or siege towers that were easy to take out when the ramps opened up. This is why the Narmenian tanks could rack up kills so easily, because the enemy had a large mechanized contingent, most less than Imperial designs, and the Chaos Forces were forced into using tactics that left it's forces vulnerabilities wide open.

Magelite
27-04-2009, 18:55
'Brimlock'? Are they dinosaur-riding rough-riders?

kdh88
27-04-2009, 21:04
hate to tell you this but the militias did squat... British Forces Only began to take serious losses after the American regimets were trained by a german and started using British tactics against the British


Because the British army didn't lose the Boston campaign before the colonies had even declared independence. And the Saratoga campaign didn't take place months before Steuben's training started. And there weren't entire theaters in the south and west. Nope, none of that happened.

XenosVanquisher
27-04-2009, 22:21
Me and a few buddies are planning to buy the dex simply to get to grips with the new guard, as I think there will be a new tide of players playing them at all the local stores - so its best to know thy enemy.

This fluff will be an added bonus, I look forward to reading it

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 22:51
exactly bandwagon jumpers, we seen it with the orks, we might see it with the gurad but they will likely be low model count highly elite forces

the guard are still a true swarm army and with the price increase (WHICH WILL NOT BE DISCUSSED HERE) will put them out of the range of the most avid badwagon jumpers

WhiteKnight
27-04-2009, 22:59
I think my favorite of those is the Catachan luring in tyranids with a lictors pheramones.


Yeah, that one is the Catachan 18th, The Swamprats. They covered themselves in tyranid blood and other ichor which allowed the lictors to not being able to find them. After the Swamprats owned the tyranids, they spent 2 years on a decontamination ship. That must've sucked.

w00tm0ng3r
27-04-2009, 23:13
Yeah, that one is the Catachan 18th, The Swamprats. They covered themselves in tyranid blood and other ichor which allowed the lictors to not being able to find them. After the Swamprats owned the tyranids, they spent 2 years on a decontamination ship. That must've sucked.

That's all you have to do to fool the nids? That's almost as bad as a bunch of guys on horses taking out a bunch of braindead terminators with some of the most high tech shizznatz in the galaxy (ya I know they're supposed to be space-undead but there's too much similarity to the terminator in my mind to ignore). And speaking of terminators, I would be laughing my ass off if the Tau one day made an unmanned battlesuit (let's say a XV22 or whatever that thing is that Shadowsun wears, just take the person out and replace him/her with a drone AI), stuff it full of nid blood and guts, plaster the outside too, and then stuff it inside a carnifex corpse with yet more ichor inside and top it all off with a nuke :chrome: The battlesuit controls the carnifex body like a puppet and leisurely strolls through the nid swarm to detonate the nuke where it'll hurt...

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 23:16
dont put it past the tau, theyre amongst the most likely to use AI so an automated suit isnt that far of a stretch for them

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
27-04-2009, 23:21
'Brimlock'? Are they dinosaur-riding rough-riders?

The Brimlock Dragoons have been a fluff fixture for years, but little more than a name. Unless I recall incorrectly...

Mannimarco
27-04-2009, 23:23
i think they make an appearence in the macharian crusade campaign pack, converted models

NightrawenII
28-04-2009, 10:46
Brimlock Dragoons regiments (yes plural) were defeated by Tau. Several times.:(Last fluff about them is the Taros campaign where the one regiment was destroyed in space battle, when the Tau damaged their Transport ship.

Lord_Crull
28-04-2009, 11:23
Brimlock Dragoons regiments (yes plural) were defeated by Tau. Several times.:(Last fluff about them is the Taros campaign where the one regiment was destroyed in space battle, when the Tau damaged their Transport ship.

Actually the Brimlock Dragoons never arrived to the conflict.

Crazy Ivan
28-04-2009, 11:46
As one of those few people (seemingly) who doesn't actually have the new codex yet, this makes me look forward to reading it all the more...


Yeah, that one is the Catachan 18th, The Swamprats. They covered themselves in tyranid blood and other ichor which allowed the lictors to not being able to find them. After the Swamprats owned the tyranids, they spent 2 years on a decontamination ship. That must've sucked.
That's apparently one of the few bits of background in the new codex that's not new, I think: the Swamprats were already in the old Codex: Catachans. It's a really nice bit of background, though. :)


The Brimlock Dragoons have been a fluff fixture for years, but little more than a name. Unless I recall incorrectly...
The (4th) Brimlock Dragoons are in the old codex, shown as one of those regiments that use "Cadian pattern" equipment. Just like the 101st Vendoland, the Moloch Rifles, and the Harakoni Warhawks...

NightrawenII
28-04-2009, 11:52
Actually the Brimlock Dragoons never arrived to the conflict.

Yes, but it doesnt change the fact the Brimlock Dragoons are punchbags for Tau in every single story.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brimlock_Dragoons

Tastyfish
28-04-2009, 22:09
To be honest, its probably not good being the local regiment next to a minor alien power - as the fact there is a minor alien power in the area means that the Imperium hasn't being able to get rid of them in a crusade and the fact the aliens can use their concentration of forces against the more diffuse Imperial armies in the area means you're going to be on the receiving end of a lot of uneven campaigns.

Even worse out on the Fringe where the reason their are so many Brimlock regiments might be due to them having claimed Right of Conquest over the world, with the PDF keeping the regimental honours. Course for the Brimlock regiments, the fact that several seemed to partipate in the Damocles Gulf crusade isn't going to do a lot for the history of the planet's IG as a whole

Hamarpain
28-04-2009, 23:12
The Harker bits made me laugh. The guy chews glass. For fun. Like somebody would chew tobacco, he chews glass. And the stuff about Catachan Devil Boots? Priceless.

And Marbo hunting down Lictors for funsies. I swear Cruddance watched Rambo too many times.

At least itīs way better than the Marine fluff. We have more manly heroes. Weīre lucky he didnīt go Million Dollar Man with Straken. "We can make him faster, stronger. We can make him rip Landraiders." Guess iīll have to make them noises on the next game.

Tastyfish
28-04-2009, 23:29
The Harker bits made me laugh. The guy chews glass. For fun. Like somebody would chew tobacco, he chews glass. And the stuff about Catachan Devil Boots? Priceless.

The boots bit sounds so very familiar, unfortunately what ever pop culture meme spawned Harker is now so diffuse that other than being sure I've heard that joke (with Aligators) before I just can't place it. That said, the fact that the same joke is taken to the next level with Catachan Devils is just so perfectly 40K I think it even works better knowing that its not original. Harker is just the sort of badass sergeant who can appropiate classic badassary for himself and non of his new recruits are quite sure whether or not its stolen or he actually was crazy enough to do that. Those who have been around long enough for their gunnery sergeants to have told them the same stories when they were white sheilds, smile but are never quite able to rule out Harker as being crazy enough to be the origin of all those legends.

Its not the pure badassary of the deeds themselves that makes Harker as a geniune character, but the fact he is willing to claim he did them...its perfectly possible to chew (and swallow) glass if you know what you are doing, you've just got to be pretty crazy to want to go that far and even crazier to want people to know you've done so.

Grimbad
28-04-2009, 23:35
Sly Marbo destroys a Gargant.


Wazdakka turns green with envy.
No, wait..!

All this stuff sounds more reasonable than most other codices' stuff. Tank regiments vs. chaos titans is great, my favorite piece of Armored Company background from the Chapter Approved 2004 list was about a similar engagement, if only one company vs. one titan, though that one was there to show how insane Imperial tank aces are.

madprophet
29-04-2009, 01:55
From what I know the American's were helped a lot by the France...In fact the Monarchist regime in France just went bankruptcy after helping the Americans; so in the end thanks to their involvement in American-Brit War they get a revolution:D.

But isn't that classic Frenchy-ness? :evilgrin:

But they did get to laugh at the Brits, so it was worth it



The new Guard fluff seems more plausible; they could put some more pages (I would happily pay the same price as for SM codex if they would have the same page number) with some fluff and modeling. It does not contain mega-overpowered stuff and if some facts seems a little bit over let's just not forget that they refer to a percent of 0,00....001% of humans. This proportion in fact it's toooooo damn small but....

Remember, the actions mentioned in the Codex are the most Amazing Crowning Moments of Awesome (tm) of Guard History. They are not typical run of the mill Guard engagements, every regiment should have at least one Crowning Moment of Awesome in its history :D

NightrawenII
29-04-2009, 12:10
Remember, the actions mentioned in the Codex are the most Amazing Crowning Moments of Awesome (tm) of Guard History. They are not typical run of the mill Guard engagements, every regiment should have at least one Crowning Moment of Awesome in its history :D

Which in the IG case mean, hundred thousands of Crowning Moment of Awesome:D:D:D

Captain Corallis
29-04-2009, 16:17
I hadn't realised but a friend put me on to the train of thought that whoever designed the rules for "Iron Hand" Straken may have been watching Iron man recently. Especially the special rule; "Man of Adamantium" That and his name is kinda similar, straken and stark.

Cpt Corallis

kikkoman
29-04-2009, 17:30
So, how does Harker kill the Autarch?

How many battles against alien empires are mentioned? How are they won/lost?

The Friendly Lieuenant
29-04-2009, 17:48
Actually 200 kills in one day has been achieved in RL battles. In the Battle of Prokhorovka (part of the larger Kursk battle) 400 German tanks slugged it out with 850 Soviet tanks... and win. Actually, they practically raped the Russians, taking out 300 Soviet tanks for 70 German ones (these are only the ones that couldn't be repaired, numbers for tanks taken out in total would be even more heavily skewed towards the Germans because German tanks were hard to fix and Russian tanks were easy to fix)... Infantry kill/death ratios are even better: 5,500 Soviets died taking out 850 SS mother****ers.

Now obviously this involves a German army instead of an IG regiment, but the Wh40k universe can get pretty jacked up with the numbers. Ex: Chekov and his 120,000 man "regiment", that's enough for a full blown army circa WWI if you take "army" to mean two corps of 60,000 each! For the uninitiated, military organization goes man, fireteam, squad (8-12 dudes), platoon (30-50 guys), company (100-300), battalion (about 1,000), regiment/brigade (3,000), division (15,000), corps (30,000), army (60,000), army group (everyone on the front).

The russian vs german thing is a bit like the 40k codex fluff really a best of out there story that wasn't everyday. The russians had plenty of equivalent stories like when the T34 trial tank was sent out it cut a swathe through the german lines for 88 miles and was only able to be stopped when they got a aa gun behind it. And how a T34 was immobilized by a shot to the tracks a german tank drove up behind it and unleashed 8 rounds point blank into the tank and the russian crew got out a fer minutes later deafened but the tank was not destroyed. Later on the russian caulaties were higher in tank battles due to 2 major reasons : 1. sending medium t34 vs heavy tigers and panther tanks. and 2. the germans new that only the officers had transmitters for their radios and if you destroyed the officer tank (lead tank) the enlisted tanks couldn't communicate with one another and could be destroyed piecemeal.

And the size of units depends greatly on the military organziation. US marines a fire team is 4. squad is 14 (including RTO), Platoon is 45, and above that is difficult to assume as you can have so much attached/detached it is difficult to figure. The marines vary greatly with the US army and they do a very similar job within the same department of defence. So in 40K its quite practical based on planets etc to make your units as big or small as you like. For instance i believe in mongolia the lowest rank is sergeant and the smallest unit size is company.

The Friendly Lieuenant
29-04-2009, 18:39
hate to tell you this but the militias did squat... British Forces Only began to take serious losses after the American regimets were trained by a german and started using British tactics against the British... Also If England had actually used its true military might against the colonies, the revolutionaries would not have stood a chance...

Thats not right actually. Britain never had a very big army. They sent as much as they were able to. But some very poor generalship by the british and the americans introducing new tactics (such as minimizing logistics and travelling light while the british were quite the opposite) paid to the british. And once the americans showed they could stand on their own and the french entered the war the british were soundly defeated. Why do I spend more time debating historical accuracies on these forums than talking about the imperial guard I don't know.

Hamarpain
29-04-2009, 19:37
And the British fought in overseas. Which do not involve anything on New Guard Fluff. Please take RL conversation elsewhere.

I do remember reading more about Alīraheim. Something about him getting lost in the desert and raising troops amongst the natives. Canīt remember that was kinda like Lawrence of Arabia. I think at least they werenīt fighting against Imperium.

Brother Siccarius
01-05-2009, 22:15
The words "Posthumously sentenced to death" (from the timeline in the IG book) gives a good idea of how up to date the munitorium is on the current happenings.

Havock
02-05-2009, 01:32
Rough Riders rout Necrons in a massed cavalry charge. "meh"

Cadian 9th defeat a splinter fleet without losing a single company. Mary Sue...

Sly Marbo destroys a Gargant. Well, it is Sly Marbo, so fair :p

Elder players weep, Harker and Al’raem both have killed an Autarch, each.
In a drinking contest, but the codex didn't say that, of course :p

Several hundred tank companies managed to destroy a Chaos titan legion.
Fair enough, that's a ******** of tanks

Chekov pushed back the Vanguard of a hive fleet with a million guard.
Vanguard = 1500 pts

The Krieg invade and conquer a rebel world refusing to give tithes.
No ****, they'd invade you for the Emperor any day of the week! :p

A catachan regiment cut out the pheromone sacs from a lector and used to lure a tyranids swarm to it’s death.
Sneaky, and quite awesome really. Human ingenuity is GW's path less travelled.

Iron hand Straken killed a warboss.
So would Ahnuld

There is a cool story about the vahallans who were sent into a combat zone without most of their weapons Enemy-at-the gates style and win.
Against who is the most important question

The first person to kill an ethereal was a Ratling.
Seal of approval

I dislike most codex fluff, it's too mary sue-ish. The SM 'dex was a major offender. If only for the writing style, chewing on needles is more entertaining.

Brother Siccarius
02-05-2009, 03:28
Just got back from reading the guard codex, this is not a joke unlike my last one.

Rough Riders rout Necrons in a massed cavalry charge.
They defeated the last of them with a massed charge, after a three year campaign.


Cadian 9th defeat a splinter fleet without losing a single company.
Entrenched within a fortress.


Sly Marbo destroys a Gargant.
"Dismissed as 'Improbable' by Segmentum command"


Elder players weep, Harker and Al’raem both have killed an Autarch, each.

Several hundred tank companies managed to destroy a Chaos titan legion
Haven't found that yet, but Pask killed Four titans.


Chekov pushed back the Vanguard of a hive fleet with a million guard.
Plus armored support. It was only enough to fill a single valley, so it couldn't have been that advanced or that strong.


The Krieg invade and conquer a rebel world refusing to give tithes.
Oh it's more unforgiving than that. They go there with munitorium reps to get the tithes out of them, the officials are hanged. the Krieg troops deploy in the mountains and siege it until nothing is left, two years after all life signs, five years after they surrendered.


A catachan regiment cut out the pheromone sacs from a lector and used to lure a tyranids swarm to it’s death.
Actually, what they do is kill Lictors, take out their pheromone, cover themselves with it to grant an immunity to their poisons and make them hard/impossible for the nids to distinguish. They use this to hunt more lictors and get more pheromone sacs. They then proceed to set up multiple ambushes where they lie in wait, using the lictor pheromone to draw the nids in. They spend two years on a decontamination ship.


Iron hand Straken killed a warboss.

But he killed it by luring it in the path of a squiggoth and getting both of them squished. He woke up later at the next warzone in a new system after having the glory stolen from him.


-Creed goes from whiteshield to captain in five years



There is a cool story about the vahallans who were sent into a combat zone without most of their weapons Enemy-at-the gates style and win.
Against who is the most important question
Doesn't say



The first person to kill an ethereal was a Ratling.
Seal of approval

I dislike most codex fluff, it's too mary sue-ish. The SM 'dex was a major offender. If only for the writing style, chewing on needles is more entertaining.
This one has every other mention being hundreds or thousands dieing before a large overwhelming force or a selected specialized regiment breaks the stalemate. Even their victories have hundreds dieing.

Imperialis_Dominatus
02-05-2009, 08:45
Oh noes, people is being awesome in there codex! Weze must stop this because our people aren't awesome enough in our own codex! We can't have anyone else being cool or doing something neat based off of absolutely no details and only a basis description of what other people did!

Now back to marines! Blah blah barg, *mention the same three small passages in a single codex that was meant as in character fluff and a "historical retelling"*
^
[]
[]
Eldar OMGers, that's what you sound like.

...so, are you even discussing the IG Codex here or did you just pick a random thread and hit reply?


Actually I am glad someone else pointed out the "over the top" sheenanigans in the Guard Codex.
It just proves the point: Crying about what Calgar did or "OMG MAREENZ IS OP!" is nonsense as it can be aimed at every army in the 40K cosmos. They all get pimped out in their codex or BL novels.

I think most of the replies in this thread have pointed out that the Guard fluff, while it has its OTT moments, is more forgivable than the utter dickery present in the SM Codex.


How about Guard rescuing Marines?

That'd be cool.


hate to tell you this but the militias did squat... British Forces Only began to take serious losses after the American regimets were trained by a german and started using British tactics against the British... Also If England had actually used its true military might against the colonies, the revolutionaries would not have stood a chance...

Oh, God, do we really need this? Seriously.

Rockerfella
02-05-2009, 11:54
...That'd be cool. That would be cool. But, think of the uproar. The consequences of such an occurance.

No chance.... :rolleyes:

ryng_sting
02-05-2009, 12:28
I do remember reading more about Alīraheim. Something about him getting lost in the desert and raising troops amongst the natives. Canīt remember that was kinda like Lawrence of Arabia. I think at least they werenīt fighting against Imperium.


Original Guard Codex, mentioned again the in the Daemon Codex. Al'Rahem and forces teams up with the handful of natives who haven't gone over to Chaos, and together they defeat them. The survivors are later taken off-world and the planet is bombarded from orbit.

Baaltharus
02-05-2009, 13:07
or a ragtag bunch of American militia men managed to kick the biggest, baddest empire out of the 13 Colonies.

You get the idea.


Well actually the Americans lost almost every major engagement they were involved in with the British despite outnumbering them so vastly and their French allies also took a bit of a hammering at sea despite having a larger more powerful fleet. Ultimately it was the French intervention that made the British reliquish control of the the 13 colonies.

Back to the IG background and I didn't find much of it massively far fetched. As has been pointed out, equally strange things have happened in reality.

Treadhead_1st
02-05-2009, 13:38
Favourite part of the background?

The Armageddon 339th "Iron Heads" stuff - entire regiments fighting through a factory (that is still building tanks) and then mounting up on a row of tanks that had literally just rolled off the production line for an armoured charge.

That's the kind of Imperial insanity that I was hoping for, and I am not disappointed. It's a really cinematic description IMO, as you can imagine a fierce fire-fight going on in something that looks like a steelworks (just on mega-scale) and having moving terrain as cover!

Iracundus
02-05-2009, 14:08
Favourite part of the background?

The Armageddon 339th "Iron Heads" stuff - entire regiments fighting through a factory (that is still building tanks) and then mounting up on a row of tanks that had literally just rolled off the production line for an armoured charge.

That's the kind of Imperial insanity that I was hoping for, and I am not disappointed.

It's not Imperial insanity. It's GW's borrowing from real life...in this case the Eastern Front in WWII

Brother Siccarius
02-05-2009, 15:40
Original Guard Codex, mentioned again the in the Daemon Codex. Al'Rahem and forces teams up with the handful of natives who haven't gone over to Chaos, and together they defeat them. The survivors are later taken off-world and the planet is bombarded from orbit.
It's in the Guard codex as well. The one who defeated the demons on Thoth was durring the Macharian Crusades, the Al'Rahem in the codex is from current times. There speculation in the book as to whether he was named after the earlier one, if he's hs descendant, or if he's the original still alive due to the distortion of time.


It's not Imperial insanity. It's GW's borrowing from real life...in this case the Eastern Front in WWII
Well, the tanks had just rolled off the assembly line that was in the factory that they were fighting in (Though it was a gigantic factory).



...so, are you even discussing the IG Codex here or did you just pick a random thread and hit reply?


It's more in response to the reactionary stance of these boards. They take fluff out of a new codex, apply it in simplest terms so that it seems like it's over the top, and then get a massed reaction of people crying about their favorite army getting killed. Eldar players are especially frequent with those responses, which then triggers a long rant about how "The Marine Men be keepin the Pointy Ears down!", no matter what codex we're actually talking about. It's so bad that it infests almost every topic involving marines and degenerates it into little more than a shouting match. The sad thing is that I could have picked a random thread and hit reply and still have it hold true.



Plus I was drunk when I wrote that one.

Poseidal
02-05-2009, 16:47
Eldar players are especially frequent with those responses, which then triggers a long rant about how "The Marine Men be keepin the Pointy Ears down!", no matter what codex we're actually talking about. It's so bad that it infests almost every topic involving marines and degenerates it into little more than a shouting match. The sad thing is that I could have picked a random thread and hit reply and still have it hold true.
If you read carefully, the Eldar players in this thread are the ones who are saying it isn't over the top, and has some rather cool things in.

Indeed, the victories in the IG book make a lot more sense than those in certain other books.

kikkoman
02-05-2009, 18:41
So when does Harker kill an Autarch? I've glanced though and only see him killing tyranids

He breaks a ravener's neck with his amazing biceps. That does seem like a stretch though. Then again there's already a 'Tall Tales' feeling with "yeah and he chews GLASS" in the IG stories.

Marshal2Crusaders
02-05-2009, 19:24
Don't forget the character that rides whirlwinds and the other one with the massive blue grox.

Awilla the Hun
02-05-2009, 19:50
I'd love more detail on the grand charge of Mogul Kamir, but apart from that I like the fluff a lot. We get to inflict pain and woe and despair on the enemies, using words like "effortless" and "in the blink of an eye" to describe our equipment and tactics.

Best of all, I like Chenkov's grand assault against Hive Fleet Vanguard. Millions of guardsmen being herded forward by Commissars with fixed bayonets, supported by hundreds of tanks, and led from the front by a brutally uncaring officer, really sums up the Imperial Guard for me.

ercan_sinar
02-05-2009, 20:25
I see fluff as not a retelling of historical(!) events but as imperial propaganda, fed to masses behind the lines. So, for me it makes perfect sense.

And about 99,999 thing... I thought it was a number close to 100 not 100000 but i am not a native speaker so i might get "." and "," confused

Cheers

Solar_Eclipse
02-05-2009, 23:38
Don't forget the character that rides whirlwinds and the other one with the massive blue grox.

He only says that to impress the ladies.

Lord_Crull
03-05-2009, 15:29
So when does Harker kill an Autarch? I've glanced though and only see him killing tyranids

He breaks a ravener's neck with his amazing biceps. That does seem like a stretch though. Then again there's already a 'Tall Tales' feeling with "yeah and he chews GLASS" in the IG stories.

It's in the timeline section. Don't look at his discription. Read the timeline section.

elf_hater_7
03-05-2009, 20:23
I like the little bit of fluff on the deathstrike, the bit that says a bunch of orks managed to sneak into the vehicle park and steal one, and then launch it against the Guard.

"Hey guys, where did that tank with the s*** big missile on the back go?"
"Well, I don't know about the tank..but the missile's up there...and it's getting bigger!"
BOOM!

ambrosehlbiercemencken
03-05-2009, 21:06
It's not Imperial insanity. It's GW's borrowing from real life...in this case the Eastern Front in WWII

Even in Stalingrad I don't think they kept working at factories there was combat going on in. This is made-up, and gloriously made up too :evilgrin:

warmaster_dan
03-05-2009, 21:12
Even in Stalingrad I don't think they kept working at factories there was combat going on in. This is made-up, and gloriously made up too :evilgrin:

I think it was most likely 'half finished tanks parked outside the factory being pressed into service' transmuting over time into 'factories still running and tanks rolling off the production line into a firefight', although my history teacher did tell me something more like the latter, with the engineers building the things manning them when they were done and joining the battle, which isn't all that plausible, even for the soviets...

Lord_Crull
03-05-2009, 22:02
I think it was most likely 'half finished tanks parked outside the factory being pressed into service' transmuting over time into 'factories still running and tanks rolling off the production line into a firefight', although my history teacher did tell me something more like the latter, with the engineers building the things manning them when they were done and joining the battle, which isn't all that plausible, even for the soviets...

But it fits perfectly in with 40k. Rule of Cool and all that.

Brother Siccarius
03-05-2009, 22:08
I think it was most likely 'half finished tanks parked outside the factory being pressed into service' transmuting over time into 'factories still running and tanks rolling off the production line into a firefight', although my history teacher did tell me something more like the latter, with the engineers building the things manning them when they were done and joining the battle, which isn't all that plausible, even for the soviets...

Well, especially because tanks wouldn't usually be produced all in one place. Though they might be assembled at one place.

Tastyfish
03-05-2009, 23:13
Well, especially because tanks wouldn't usually be produced all in one place. Though they might be assembled at one place.

That is the case nowadays, though it wouldn't suprise me if WW2 era tanks were made entirely in one factory. I've seen the same arguments made with regards to the modern automobile industry - in that its important to have a national automotive industry because its very easy to convert them into war factories. During WW1 and 2 this is what happened, but now transport is far too easy and its cheaper to build parts of the cars/tanks elsewhere and assemble them together.

Light of the Emperor
04-05-2009, 01:25
There are some great stories in there. Shame the Vostroyans didn't get too much coverage...besides the blip of being wiped out by daemons...and other loss at the hands of the tau.

Absolutely love the munitorum condeming a destroyed regiment. GW has run that type of story before and it never gets boring.

The story of the Cadian 9th at Carcasonne was also in the 3rd, 4th? IG codex...just not with such an impressive kill ratio.

I'm not surprised with all these "ott" guard victories...the guard have been owning every enemy of the imperium ever since Dan Abnett started writing about them!

Brother Siccarius
04-05-2009, 02:07
I'm not surprised with all these "ott" guard victories...the guard have been owning every enemy of the imperium ever since Dan Abnett started writing about them!

They're somewhat tempered by the decade long wars and trillions of casualties in the codex though.

ArtificerArmour
04-05-2009, 14:09
A few things annoyed me - the space map changed AGAIN and Catachan is no longer in segmentum solar. The gothic sector seems to have switched sides of the EoT too.

Also, page 24 I think has a paragraph about a warlord called Skullkrak. And the galactic map has a small paragraph about a warlord called krakskull...:rolleyes:

Solar_Eclipse
04-05-2009, 14:27
Also, page 24 I think has a paragraph about a warlord called Skullkrak. And the galactic map has a small paragraph about a warlord called krakskull...

They are brothers of course.

DarkMatter2
04-05-2009, 14:45
They're somewhat tempered by the decade long wars and trillions of casualties in the codex though.

Yeah, there is nothing too "over the top" when you are willing to send billions to their death in combat.

ArtificerArmour
04-05-2009, 15:05
They are brothers of course.

Can Orks have brothers? :p

Mannimarco
04-05-2009, 17:57
all orks are brothers, one ork releases 50 spores, those spores mature into orks, theyre all one big happy family, that sort of thing

Brother Siccarius
04-05-2009, 18:21
A few things annoyed me - the space map changed AGAIN and Catachan is no longer in segmentum solar. The gothic sector seems to have switched sides of the EoT too.


Actually if you compare to the map in the main book, they're all in the same places. Catachan isn't labeled on the IG map, I'd point out.

Solar_Eclipse
05-05-2009, 11:44
With the unit who got posthumously sentenced to death, My favorite part of it is that in between the Grand Marshall dying and being executed he managed to get a promotion to Lord General!!

Fixer
05-05-2009, 16:01
Personally, I enjoyed the part about Sly Marbo destroying an entire Tau army, the record keepers unable to quantify this massive victory to the actions of a single man instead say an entire regiment must have been there to score this victory.

Then you look up at his codex art ;)

Nero
07-05-2009, 12:24
I don't have my codex to hand, but some of this seems a little inaccurate...


Rough Riders rout Necrons in a massed cavalry charge.

You mean the 'ill-fated' cavalry charge from the timeline? The one that doesn't specify whether the rough riders actually succeeded or not?


Sly Marbo destroys a Gargant.

Sly Marbo is reputed to have destroyed a Gargant.


Elder players weep, Harker and Al’raem both have killed an Autarch, each.

In both of those cases, they were leading platoons at the time. It isn't specified who killed the Autarchs, they were just shot in the ensuing firefight.


Several hundred tank companies managed to destroy a Chaos titan legion

You mean the several hundred tank companies that were 'annihilated' trying to destroy a Chaos titan legio?


Iron hand Straken killed a warboss.

By which you mean a squiggoth killed a warboss, and almost killed Straken...



Remember kids, context is important!

EDIT - although I haven't seen the worst fluff violation mentioned in this thread yet; the last chancers go to a daemon world to kill a daemon prince, and two survive!? One platoon. Of unaltered humans. On a Daemon world.

To it's credit, it doesn't say that they actually succeed in killing the Daemon Prince.

Iracundus
07-05-2009, 12:44
You mean the 'ill-fated' cavalry charge from the timeline? The one that doesn't specify whether the rough riders actually succeeded or not?


I believe you are the one in error here. It does specify the Necrons were defeated by a cavalry charge.



870.M41
In a rare instance where regiments from Attila deploy in force, Mogul Kamir leads a decisive three-year offensive against the Necron tombwardens of Loxar IV. The enemy forces are finally defeated during the ill-fated charge of the Lumen Valley, the largest cavalry charge in the Imperium's recorded history. p. 22, latest IG Codex

Quite why the charge was "ill-fated" isn't specified or obvious since it seems to have been a great success.

DarkMatter2
07-05-2009, 12:48
You mean the 'ill-fated' cavalry charge from the timeline? The one that doesn't specify whether the rough riders actually succeeded or not?

What? The book calls the Rough Rider offensive "decisive", and says that the enemy forces were defeated.



Sly Marbo is reputed to have destroyed a Gargant.

The point of that piece of fluff is that he did do it, IMHO. Segmentum Command obviously has no idea who Marbo is, and thus are unable to conceive of a single man destroying a Gargant.

The point is that he did some OTT stuff, and no one actually believes he did it.



You mean the several hundred tank companies that were 'annihilated' trying to destroy a Chaos titan legio?

Eighty Thousand Tank companies and 35 super heavy detachments annihilated in the process of "near totally" destroying a renegade titan legio. The largest tank offensive since the Battle for Tallarn

Crazy Ivan
07-05-2009, 12:57
Quite why the charge was "ill-fated" isn't specified or obvious since it seems to have been a great success.
It's probably something to do with the fact that cavalry charges, ever since the Charge of the light brigade, are all supposed to be heroically "ill-fated"? I think Pratchett would approve.


Eighty Thousand Tank companies and 35 super heavy detachments annihilated in the process of "near totally" destroying a renegade titan legio. The largest tank offensive since the Battle for Tallarn
Still haven't got the new codex yet (the local store was sold out... :mad:), but those are numbers! That makes about 800.000 Leman Russ tanks and 105 super heavy tanks, if I'm not mistaken... :eek:

Sceleris82
07-05-2009, 13:03
Honestly Hellbore, your crusade of marine hatred is getting weird.

Back to the topic, im glad to see the IG kicking ass.

Nero
07-05-2009, 13:20
I believe you are the one in error here. It does specify the Necrons were defeated by a cavalry charge.

Quite why the charge was "ill-fated" isn't specified or obvious since it seems to have been a great success.

My mistake, I read ill-fated and assumed it wasn't successful.


Eighty Thousand Tank companies and 35 super heavy detachments annihilated in the process of "near totally" destroying a renegade titan legio. The largest tank offensive since the Battle for Tallarn

That's what I said. They were annihilated trying to destroy a Chaos titan legio.

DarkMatter2
07-05-2009, 13:28
That's what I said. They were annihilated trying to destroy a Chaos titan legio.

1. Your numbers were way off

2. The blurb does not specify that they were Chaotically aligned

3. Saying that they were destroyed "trying" to annihilate a renegade Titan legion makes it sound like they accomplished little. It sounds like it was a large scale bloodbath that ended with both sides basically wiped out.

MajorWesJanson
07-05-2009, 13:31
I wonder how big the Titan legion was, and if it was supported.

Wasn't everything eventually killed by an orbital bombardment?

Nero
07-05-2009, 14:06
1. Your numbers were way off

2. The blurb does not specify that they were Chaotically aligned

3. Saying that they were destroyed "trying" to annihilate a renegade Titan legion makes it sound like they accomplished little. It sounds like it was a large scale bloodbath that ended with both sides basically wiped out.

1. Lord Krull's numbers were way off. I was just point out that they didn't destroy a Chaos Titan legio.

2. Yeah, maybe it was an entire Titan legio owned by all those neutral renegade Mechanicum you hear about all the time.

3. It doesn't sound like that at all. All 'trying' implies is that they didn't succeed, not that they failed utterly. Which is what happened.

DarkMatter2
07-05-2009, 14:33
1. Lord Krull's numbers were way off. I was just point out that they didn't destroy a Chaos Titan legio.

Then your attention to detail was off.


2. Yeah, maybe it was an entire Titan legio owned by all those neutral renegade Mechanicum you hear about all the time.

It is entirely possible that they were not Chaos aligned.


3. It doesn't sound like that at all.

Of course it does. Your point was that the fluff wasn't over the top for whatever reasons because the Titan Legio wasn't destroyed, the force merely "tried" to destroy them.

There isn't that much of a difference between "near total" destruction and total destruction, and I doubt there is any difference as far as the threat level posed by the titan legio from that point on to the strategic assets of the Imperium.

So, its somehow unrealistic for a huge armored force to destroy a Titan Legio, but realistic for them to very nearly destroy them?

Lord_Crull
07-05-2009, 14:35
1. Lord Krull's numbers were way off. I was just point out that they didn't destroy a Chaos Titan legio.



I only got a few minutes look at the preview copy in the store, give me a break.




2. Yeah, maybe it was an entire Titan legio owned by all those neutral renegade Mechanicum you hear about all the time.



Where? What neutral renagade Mechanicum? Can you give me fluff quotes to support that?




3. It doesn't sound like that at all. All 'trying' implies is that they didn't succeed, not that they failed utterly. Which is what happened.

The same peice of fluff mentions that they nearly destroyed the legio.



In both of those cases, they were leading platoons at the time. It isn't specified who killed the Autarchs, they were just shot in the ensuing firefight.



Al'raem is mentioned ''taking the head'' of the Autarch in the insuing firefight. harker is susposed to have gunned down the Autarch in an ambush.

Nero
07-05-2009, 16:43
ARGH! Are the two of you wearing anti-context goggles or something!?


Where? What neutral renagade Mechanicum? Can you give me fluff quotes to support that?


It is entirely possible that they were not Chaos aligned.

There is the Mechanicum (Imperial) and there is the Dark Mechanicum (Chaos). There is no neutral Mechanicum, that was sarcasm. Only the Mechanicum or Dark Mechanicum can service Titans.

Renegade Titan legio = Dark Mechanicum = Chaos.


Al'raem is mentioned ''taking the head'' of the Autarch in the insuing firefight. harker is susposed to have gunned down the Autarch in an ambush.

He 'claims' the head of the Autarch, but fair enough.

In Harker's case, I believe the Autarch is simply killed by heavy bolter fire.


Then your attention to detail was off.

Or I didn't have the codex to hand, as I said. I was just trying to point out that the fluff isn't as OTT as the OP makes it seem.


...the Titan Legio wasn't destroyed, the force merely "tried" to destroy them.

They didn't destroy the Titan legio. They were attempting to. They weren't successful. They tried.

It's not complicated. Stop trying to read some deep meaning into the word 'tried'.


There isn't that much of a difference between "near total" destruction and total destruction and I doubt there is any difference as far as the threat level posed by the titan legio from that point on to the strategic assets of the Imperium.

So, its somehow unrealistic for a huge armored force to destroy a Titan Legio, but realistic for them to very nearly destroy them?

Yes there is, or it would've read 'total destruction'. All the Titans could be heavily damaged but repairable and essentially functional.

Which wasn't my point anyway, all I was pointing out was that Crull had relayed the story as though it was an Imperial Guard victory (a bunch of tanks kill a Titan legio!) without mentioning that the Guard tanks are annihilated and that the Legio wasn't entirely destroyed anyway.


This conversation just depressed me. Thanks for lowering my faith in humanity Dark Matter.

Kabuto Wari
07-05-2009, 17:08
Still think that sly marbo is an embarrassment to the codex.
they finally give some cred back to the guard and that character rip off from a dated 80's flick is still getting press.

Rockerfella
07-05-2009, 18:35
Still think that sly marbo is an embarrassment to the codex.
they finally give some cred back to the guard and that character rip off from a dated 80's flick is still getting press.

Is this the guy who chews glass?

Personally, I think thats just, well.... pants. Why hasn't he bled to death? Why isn't he living in such pain that he can't think, let along speak? Why hasn't he starved to death due to food being unable to enter his mouth as a result of the hideous glass chewing related wounds?

Or is that a different guy?

My guess is, he smokes a cigar, right? And wear aviators? Plenty of stubble too....

I'm just guessing mind....

Oh, and welcome to warseer, old friend!!

Fixer
07-05-2009, 18:48
That would be gunnery Sgt whoever who eats glass.

Or not really, they just say he's so tough he chews on glass ;)

Sly. Marbo is the psychotic loner that wanders off into the jungle and comes back two weeks later reporting that he was the reason that an entire Tau armored column decided to spontaniously explode and then thrown their remains under some rocks at the bottom of a ravine.

Rockerfella
07-05-2009, 18:49
That would be gunnery Sgt whoever who eats glass.

Or not really, they just say he's so tough he chews on glass ;)

Sly. Marbo is the psychotic loner that wanders off into the jungle and comes back two weeks later reporting that he was the reason that an entire Tau armored column decided to spontaniously explode and then thrown their remains under some rocks at the bottom of a ravine.

Ok.

I think I prefer the ludicrous glass eating guy..... :rolleyes:

Idaan
07-05-2009, 19:20
Uhm, the picture shows him with a democharge on the brink of a deep canyon through which the Tau column travels. That's not ludicruous at all IMHO.

The glass-chewing guy is someone who said that he wanted Catachan Devil boots but he couldn't find any that actually was wearing boots. So it's all jokes and tell-tale, not real stuff. He's pretty 'ard nevertheless, but nothing too over-the-top.

Really, this codex fluff is good and reasonable. Read some of it before posting, because people in this thread really give a distorted view of it.

Lord_Crull
07-05-2009, 19:22
There is the Mechanicum (Imperial) and there is the Dark Mechanicum (Chaos). There is no neutral Mechanicum, that was sarcasm. Only the Mechanicum or Dark Mechanicum can service Titans.

Renegade Titan legio = Dark Mechanicum = Chaos.




I was't contesting that point.





He 'claims' the head of the Autarch, but fair enough.

In Harker's case, I believe the Autarch is simply killed by heavy bolter fire.



That's what I said, Harker gunned him down, nowhere I said he was killed in close combat. A heavy bolter is a gun I/E he was gunned down. Harker is infamous for carrying and moving with a heavy bolter.




Yes there is, or it would've read 'total destruction'. All the Titans could be heavily damaged but repairable and essentially functional.

Which wasn't my point anyway, all I was pointing out was that Crull had relayed the story as though it was an Imperial Guard victory (a bunch of tanks kill a Titan legio!) without mentioning that the Guard tanks are annihilated and that the Legio wasn't entirely destroyed anyway.




I already told you I got a brief look at the preview codex, I hardly had time to memorize it all. don't blame me, I have already explained this.

Besides the Guard can always make more tanks.

Rockerfella
07-05-2009, 19:52
Uhm, the picture shows him with a democharge on the brink of a deep canyon through which the Tau column travels. That's not ludicruous at all IMHO. Horses for courses, I guess. ;)


So it's all jokes and tell-tale, not real stuff. He's pretty 'ard nevertheless, but nothing too over-the-top. Not chewing glass is good..... regardless of whether its tell tale or not. Needless to say, knowing its tell tale, makes Rockerfella somewhat happier.


Read some of it before posting, because people in this thread really give a distorted view of it.

Most of the fluff in there sounds great to me. The chances of me reading it are pretty slim, so we'll just have to see what happens!

grissom2006
07-05-2009, 19:58
A catachan regiment cut out the pheromone sacs from a lector and used to lure a tyranids swarm to it’s death.

hardly new fluff as it was in the catachan codex

Brother Siccarius
08-05-2009, 03:50
That would be gunnery Sgt whoever who eats glass.

Or not really, they just say he's so tough he chews on glass ;)

Sly. Marbo is the psychotic loner that wanders off into the jungle and comes back two weeks later reporting that he was the reason that an entire Tau armored column decided to spontaniously explode and then thrown their remains under some rocks at the bottom of a ravine.

But then you see the picture of him doing it, and it doesn't seem that unbelievable.

Oh, and he came out of the forest with a warboss's head, with a single gunshot between the eyes.

There's no doubt that Marbo is over the top, he's the quintesential OTT character. The only difference is, he does it all, and you think to yourself, "Yeah, that sound about right". Then you see the evidence as to how he could do it, and you still think "Yeah, that seems about right". Then you see a marine, whos twice as buff and better trained and armored, do something better and you go "See, now that's going too far". Because Guard go over the top, and it's okay, because for every great guardsmen, there's a planet of corpses. When a Marine has to go OTT, they have to do it bigger and better, because if a guardsmen can do it, they should be able to do it faster or better otherwise you ask, "Why are Marines only as good as this great guardsmen?".

DoombringerATT
08-05-2009, 04:44
New Guard Codex is terrible for the Tau...

Not only do they bump the Damocles Gulf Crusade to 979-988.M41 in their timeline, they also proceed to contradict said entries twice in the same publication;

1) In the Ratling entry, when it explains that the Damocles Gulf Crusade was launched in 742.M41 and was a brief and brutal conflict.

2) Earlier in the timeline, where they claim Brightsword attempted to take Nimbosa in ~790.M41 (can't remember the exact date), some 200 years before he was still Farsight's pupil in the post-Damocles Arkunasha War, and some 205 years before his assassination in ~995-6.M41 (explained in Kill Team to take place roughly two years after Ichar IV).

Thank you, Games Workshop, for simultaneously breaking Tau chronology and ruining any shreds of legitimacy your once illustriously awe-inspiring background had...

Doom out...

Marshal2Crusaders
08-05-2009, 05:05
I just noticed that too.

Walls
08-05-2009, 05:54
I think people are overstating the fluff a bit. Yes, they list some pretty crazy stuff, but remember. They are fighting all over the entire galaxy constantly. For every crazy thing they mention there are a thousands and thousands of mundane battles and even more battles that went bad. Considering the sheer magnitude of the guard, heroics like those mentioned aren't shocking.

DoombringerATT
08-05-2009, 05:56
Just a little update of how much fluff this new Codex overrides;

Pretty much, if we're to take this new date for the Damocles Gulf Crusade as canon (as well as the rest of the Codex's tripe), it entirely contradicts and therefore renders null and void just about 75% of all pre-existing Tau-related Games Workshop, Black Library, and Forge World background out there, including but not limited to;

1) The Games Workshop short story Cleanse the Xenos, detailing a ~60 yr old former Private of the Brimlock Dragoons now living under Tau government. [Chronologically impossible in the new timeline, especially as it mentions the Crusade's withdrawal being due to Behemoth, not Kraken]

2) Rogue Star and Star of Damocles [Detailing a short, brutal conflict between the Imperium and the Tau, not a nine-year Crusade...]

3) Imperial Armour III: The Taros Campaign [Chronologically impossible, as Por diplomats were negotiating with the world for ~20 years prior to 998.M41, and also mentions the Damocles Gulf Crusade as having taken place in 742.M41]

4) The Tau Codices themselves

5) BFG Magazine Kor'vattra background [Detailing, once again, a short, brutal Crusade in 742.M41]

6) For the Emperor [Takes place in ~931.M41, but mentions the Damocles Gulf Crusade, IIRC]

7) Xenology [New IG Codex explains that the first Ethereal to die to Imperial hands is at the Battle for Gel'bryn (ca. 988.M41, by this new timeline), but in Xenology, Inquisitor Brehm Sasham executes one in 805.M41...]

8) Kill Team [Brightsword taking Nimbosa in 790.M41? Brightsword was Farsight's pupil after the Crusade? Brightsword's attainment of Shas'O was the reason he could no longer serve under Farsight? Brightsword was a Shas'O at Nimbosa? Brightsword was assassinated ca. 996.M41? WTFIGO?]

===

So yeah, I'm pretty much pissed at Games Workshop right now... If they seriously expect us to go along with this blindly, then they've practically erased every bit of Tau background we have available to us...

Here's starting a [b]Damocles Gulf Crusade Date Reversion Petition; all in favor?

Aye.

Sephiroth
08-05-2009, 06:45
So yeah, I'm pretty much pissed at Games Workshop right now... If they seriously expect us to go along with this blindly, then they've practically erased every bit of Tau background we have available to us...

Here's starting a Damocles Gulf Crusade Date Reversion Petition; all in favor?

Aye.

The GW problem stems from the fact they want Shadowsun to have trained alongside Farsight under Commander Puretide - the only problem with this is that it would make her 300 or so years old. This is why Codex: Tau Empire deliberately avoided putting a date in anywhere.

They had two choices really. Either they change the Tau timeline, jumping it forward so say, the Damocles Gulf Crusade happened just before Hivefleet Kraken (instead of Behemoth) and move all events forward in time, OR they abandon this Shadowson/Farsight rival students...

Seems they went for the former. :confused:

Marshal2Crusaders
08-05-2009, 08:38
I say the Warp did it...

I also say that Mat Ward was Robin C.'s 'oversight' in writing the codex... which should tell you something if the first two codexes of 5th edition where written by guys who have never written a codex before.

DoombringerATT
08-05-2009, 09:36
Actually Sephiroth, if you read the 5th Edition Rulebook Tau entry, they already went with option 3 as a solution to the Farsight/Shadowsun thing.

They already explained to us that some Tau unnaturally live longer than others, "as if their lifespans were directly linked to the manifest destiny of the Tau Empire".

This completely fixes the Shadowsun > Farsight > Puretide relationship, as well as gives us an excuse to have a ~200 year old Brightsword being taught by Farsight ca. 750.M41, then going for Nimbosa in 992.M41 and getting assassinated in 996.M41.

Why they felt the need to completely illegitimize their prior hotfix by bumping the Crusade an entire 200 years is beyond my capacity for logic, especially when it's coupled by two other events in the same Codex that render the bump entirely chronologically impossible...

Sephiroth
08-05-2009, 09:52
Why they felt the need to completely illegitimize their prior hotfix by bumping the Crusade an entire 200 years is beyond my capacity for logic, especially when it's coupled by two other events in the same Codex that render the bump entirely chronologically impossible...

I guess they just didn't like the idea of Tau with lifespans which went into the centuries. To be fair, a lot of the trouble stems from the desire to bring Farsight into the spotlight.

In Codex: Tau he was an interesting case, a Commander who led an expedition and seemingly went rogue, establishing his own enclaves in an area forbidden by the decree of the Ethereals, but that was it, an interesting anomaly in the background of strangely united, dynamic race, but three hundred years gone, eclipsed by newer, brighter stars...

Come Codex: Tau Empire, he and Shadowsun were both students under Commander Puretide (the Tau "Sun Tzu"), he was once the Supreme Commander of all Tau forces, and abandoned his duties to set up his own again. Shadowsun replaces him, partially healing the rift created amongst the Fire Caste between the pro/anti-Farsight factions, and destroys the statue of him on vior'la.

Unfortunately, the above wouldn't make sense if Farsight had been gone for roughly three hundred years... it would be like a newly elected official in the UK with a strong anti-internet-piracy policy heading down to the southwest to tear down the statue of Sir Francis Drake!

So, they needed to stop Farsight being three hundred years gone, and to do that they pulled it all forward it seems...

But we've gone way off-topic. :o

Barbarossa
08-05-2009, 10:30
The thing I liked best was when Dark Eldar capture a high ranking IG commander, the codex says something about '4000 regiments raised in response'*
Dark Eldar: "Duuude, we ****ed up big this time."



* Numbers are from memory only; may not be right.

Crazy Ivan
08-05-2009, 10:44
6) For the Emperor [Takes place in ~731.M41, but mentions the Damocles Gulf Crusade, IIRC]

For the Emperor takes place in 931.M41, not 731.M41. The Gravalax campaign took place waaay after the Damocles Gulf Crusade.

As for these new dates, I personally will be regarding the original 742.M41 Crusade as the "1st Damocles Crusade", and, then, after the Ultramarines and the Ultima Segmentum Fleet devastated Hivefleet Behemoth, it took the Imperium about 200 years to rebuild forces to launch the "2nd Damocles Crusade" in 979.M41, to teach those blasted Tau a lesson once and for all. And then, of course, along comes Hivefleet Kraken...

As for the ages of Shadowsun and Farsight, it might not be canon, but I'll just be assuming the Tau have their own form of Rejuvenat treatments for their great military leaders.

Any remaining problems? Warp travel and Warp communication have always played havoc with the timeline. :)

Brother Siccarius
08-05-2009, 12:23
Just a little update of how much fluff this new Codex overrides;

Pretty much, if we're to take this new date for the Damocles Gulf Crusade as canon (as well as the rest of the Codex's tripe), it entirely contradicts and therefore renders null and void just about 75% of all pre-existing Tau-related Games Workshop, Black Library, and Forge World background out there, including but not limited to;

1) The Games Workshop short story Cleanse the Xenos, detailing a ~60 yr old former Private of the Brimlock Dragoons now living under Tau government. [Chronologically impossible in the new timeline, especially as it mentions the Crusade's withdrawal being due to Behemoth, not Kraken]

2) Rogue Star and Star of Damocles [Detailing a short, brutal conflict between the Imperium and the Tau, not a nine-year Crusade...]

3) Imperial Armour III: The Taros Campaign [Chronologically impossible, as Por diplomats were negotiating with the world for ~20 years prior to 998.M41, and also mentions the Damocles Gulf Crusade as having taken place in 742.M41]

4) The Tau Codices themselves

5) BFG Magazine Kor'vattra background [Detailing, once again, a short, brutal Crusade in 742.M41]

6) For the Emperor [Takes place in ~731.M41, but mentions the Damocles Gulf Crusade, IIRC]

7) Xenology [New IG Codex explains that the first Ethereal to die to Imperial hands is at the Battle for Gel'bryn (ca. 988.M41, by this new timeline), but in Xenology, Inquisitor Brehm Sasham executes one in 805.M41...]

8) Kill Team [Brightsword taking Nimbosa in 790.M41? Brightsword was Farsight's pupil after the Crusade? Brightsword's attainment of Shas'O was the reason he could no longer serve under Farsight? Brightsword was a Shas'O at Nimbosa? Brightsword was assassinated ca. 996.M41? WTFIGO?]

===

So yeah, I'm pretty much pissed at Games Workshop right now... If they seriously expect us to go along with this blindly, then they've practically erased every bit of Tau background we have available to us...

Here's starting a [b]Damocles Gulf Crusade Date Reversion Petition; all in favor?

Aye.

So basically, you were expecting the chronology given in BL novels and background books to over-ride Rulebook and codex chronology....why?

I thought it was obvious that of all the sources, BL books are the least reliable in regards to timeline and overarching fluff concepts.

DoombringerATT
08-05-2009, 13:32
Sephiroth

Bringing Farsight's secession so close to 'present day' makes even less sense now, though...

In a timespan of eleven years between 988-999.M41, Farsight is now required to have left Dal'yth Prime on his original recolonization mission, got distracted some time into it and engaged in the "decade-long" Arkunasha War against the Orks, landed on Arthas Moloch and got his Aun killed, and finally seceded from the Empire, bringing no less than three new colonies to full Sept status and in turn losing them to the Orks in a seemingly different conflict from Arkunasha [cref. Ork Codex]...

Not only this, but Brightsword's background is tied heavily to Farsight too - sometime late in the "decade-long" Arkunasha War (read: 998.M41+?), Brightsword is supposed to have attained the rank of Shas'O and been forced to leave Farsight's Shan'al, fought for Nimbosa in 992.M41 (or was it 790.M41???), and been assassinated in 996.M41 due to his ties with the aggressive secessionist Farsight, potentially before this new fluff has Farsight actually secede.

Clearly you can see that these events are chronologically impossible...

===

Crazy Ivan

Thanks for that date-catch, Crazy Ivan. I blame it on exhaustion; just got back from 3 days in the field with 1st Marine Division, and less than one week ago returned from 5 weeks of supporting Weapons & Tactics Instruction at TACTS airfield way out in the middle of the desert near MCAS Yuma, AZ...

I, too, am all for separating the Crusades into the "1st" and "2nd"; an idea already proposed over at ATT and Tau Online, where this debate has been going on for over a week now.

===

Brother Siccarius

What? Where would you get the assumption that I "expect the chronology given in BL novels and background books to over-ride codex and rulebook"? Please, don't be so dismissively confrontational, it's almost like you're trying to start an argument...

What I expect is some damned continuity. Before now, most of the Tau-related BL novels have been surprisingly congruent with established fluff, with the exceptions of some minor anomalies like Ardias' presence in Fire Warrior.

The plethora of BL and FW novels and background books were all written with the idea that the Damocles Gulf Crusade was a piece of distant history for the Tau, having occurred in 742.M41 and being a source of great pride and motivation for the upstart race. This was pretty much the premise of the Rogue Star/Star of Damocles series, which, may I remind you, the author of our more recent Tau Empire Codex, Andy Hoare, actually wrote.

With an arbitrary wave of Games Workshop's hand, they've pretty much erased all of that now, and for what?

Because they don't like that the Tau live for centuries, which they clearly already explained away in their 5th Edition Rulebook? Ridiculous.

Then how do they explain Aun'va? How do they now explain Brightsword's age, does he now have the strange ability to time-travel?

It's a simple matter of GW introducing this newest piece of fluff without so much as giving a passing ounce of thought as to what implications it actually holds.

Lord_Crull
08-05-2009, 14:22
Sephiroth
What I expect is some damned continuity.

Continuity? With GW? Heresy! GW does not need to obey ''logic'' ''reason'' or this so-called ''common sense'':D



Sephiroth

I, too, am all for separating the Crusades into the "1st" and "2nd"; an idea already proposed over at ATT and Tau Online, where this debate has been going on for over a week now.



I would just have wave it as two crusades with the same name.

Or course you could just say Chaos did it.


Sephiroth
Then how do they explain Aun'va? How do they now explain Brightsword's age, does he now have the strange ability to time-travel?


1. The Tau have invented time travel.

Or, now this is the one I prefer.

2. Brightsword is so full of epic win he can travel back in time by flexing his biceps. However he can only do this on Tuesdays.

Idaan
08-05-2009, 16:16
Tell me Iracundus, does this new Crusade date look more like a typo or a deliberate retcon? If the former, we can surely disregard it.

Though the old date brings another problem: that the ever developing Tau were already using most of their current gear (Hammerheads etc) almost 200 years ago which would be unthinkable for any kind of non-stagnant society.

DoombringerATT
08-05-2009, 16:41
Idaan

Uh, if you're referring to me and not Iracundus, Idaan, the Tau utilizing a workhorse chassis for a couple centuries doesn't seem all that strange to me at all.

A primitive Hammerhead chassis itself (or one very similar to it) may have been used in 742.M41, while our 'modern' one is replete with even more advanced internal electronics/communications systems, as well as numerous advancements in weaponology and engineering. For all we know, the 'new' Hammerhead's railgun is so far ahead of the old one in terms of firepower, rate of fire, cooling systems, etc., that the two versions may very well be different weapon systems altogether...

Early Crisis suits were used as well, but none are nearly as advanced as our more 'modern' examples such as the XV81, XV84, XV89, and other unique Command-variant suits field tested on Taros, and advances in miniaturization technologies have spawned even greater achievements, such as XV25s able to carry Fusion Blasters, and XV22s able to carry other XV8-level weaponry.

In addition, there have been advances in infantry-level weaponry as well. Rail rifle, anyone?

Let's not even get started with the Kor'vattra now... The Lar'shi was originally designed based on experience fighting the humans during the Gulf Crusade, only now after 200 years of faithful service and consistent upgrades being phased out by the Kor's newest Kor'or'vesh (Forge World fleet). Now, with the date revision, the Lar'shi has been reduced to an interim system to replace the Gal'leath, used for less than a decade before the more modernized Lar'shi'vre and Or'es El'leath have taken the field...

===

IMHO, the Crusade looks far more like a deliberate, but not very well-thought-out retcon. Believe me, I'd love to disregard it, but GW isn't being very helpful in this situation.

Calmsword over at TO talked with a rep of GW, who verified that the timeline was deliberate, and that there'd be many fluffy car-crashes within the next 2 years while they "sort things out", but leaving us without even an ounce of an explanation while simultaneously destroying over half our fluff doesn't give me much faith that they'll do things right...

===

Lord_Crull

That Option 2 for Brightsword has to be the best solution to my problem yet...

Sigged.

kikkoman
08-05-2009, 19:19
The thing I liked best was when Dark Eldar capture a high ranking IG commander, the codex says something about '4000 regiments raised in response'*
Dark Eldar: "Duuude, we ****ed up big this time."

* Numbers are from memory only; may not be right.

response to what though? Dark Eldar live in a big chunk of nowhere, they don't really have any assets that can be attacked.

Fixer
08-05-2009, 20:18
Maybe the disparity of numbers is due to the possibly non canonical return to Damocles campaign.

Salamanders allied to many guard regiments and friendly marine chapters burned Dal'yth prime to the ground. Good times all round.

Probably not though Sadly :)

Treadhead_1st
08-05-2009, 22:14
Isn't it because when Damocles' fluff was written the Kraken/Leviathan dates were earlier in the timelines? All the 'Nid invasions got bumped forwards (and closer together) in their last release/the last rulebook, so it wouldn't surprise me (as why would the Imperium call off a crusade on the Eastern Fringe because of a Tyranid invasion from the Southern Plane 2-300 years later?

I can't remeber if the Nid stuff got shifted that much, but I remember they did move. It'll probably even-out by when the Tau book gets re-done (and it wouldn't surprise me if it matches the Guard timeline either)

DoombringerATT
08-05-2009, 22:44
The Tyranid 4th Edition Codex marks Behemoth at ~745.M41 and doesn't really give an exact date for Kraken, but it is generally accepted to be somewhere between 992-994.M41.

The Damocles Gulf Crusade was dated 742.M41 and withdrawn due to the impending arrival of Behemoth (which is what all our previous fluff concurred with, and usually stated) - the new Guard codex claims it was Kraken's fault (which was actually the reason Nimbosa got invaded, again, in the 'old fluff'; the Imperium had massive troop withdrawals from Tau space to brace for Kraken).

Brother Siccarius
08-05-2009, 23:45
Brother Siccarius

What? Where would you get the assumption that I "expect the chronology given in BL novels and background books to over-ride codex and rulebook"? Please, don't be so dismissively confrontational, it's almost like you're trying to start an argument...

What I expect is some damned continuity. Before now, most of the Tau-related BL novels have been surprisingly congruent with established fluff, with the exceptions of some minor anomalies like Ardias' presence in Fire Warrior.

The plethora of BL and FW novels and background books were all written with the idea that the Damocles Gulf Crusade was a piece of distant history for the Tau, having occurred in 742.M41 and being a source of great pride and motivation for the upstart race. This was pretty much the premise of the Rogue Star/Star of Damocles series, which, may I remind you, the author of our more recent Tau Empire Codex, Andy Hoare, actually wrote.

With an arbitrary wave of Games Workshop's hand, they've pretty much erased all of that now, and for what?

Because they don't like that the Tau live for centuries, which they clearly already explained away in their 5th Edition Rulebook? Ridiculous.

Then how do they explain Aun'va? How do they now explain Brightsword's age, does he now have the strange ability to time-travel?

It's a simple matter of GW introducing this newest piece of fluff without so much as giving a passing ounce of thought as to what implications it actually holds.
Actually, it's been well documented going back as far as second and third edition that even when it's a GW staff member writing a BL book, the background isn't always the same. Which is why I wrote it. I consider it fairly obvious that even if Rick Priestly wrote a book it doesn't guarantee that it will match the background of the game or that it will be entirely error free.

Mannimarco
09-05-2009, 00:03
its about time brightsowrd got some love, i used to run a tau army based heavily on his forces as the attacked the night world of sarcassa (aka Es'tau)

always did strike me as one of the more interesting tau characters

Marshal2Crusaders
09-05-2009, 00:14
Again, Mat Ward acted as Robin Cruddace 'oversight', that date is no more reasonable than the fact the Iron Hands now have a Chapter Master. YOu can either do what I do, and disregard novice mistakes, like eradicating the Tau background in an oversight, and accept the other fluff.

OR

You can leave the Tau background rendered moot.

GW will never take an official stance unless someone specifically calls them out on it in a Q&A or other public manner. When is the next games day? :D

DoombringerATT
09-05-2009, 03:26
Just an aside, Mannimarco;

Es'tau wasn't Sarcassa. Es'tau was formerly known as Skal's Breach/Reach (both names are mentioned in Kill Team) before the tiny Imperial colony was taken over by Brightsword to be used as a staging ground sometime earlier on.

Sarcassa was the world Brightsword was preparing to attack when said Kill Team engaged him on his outpost.

I, too, have a force heavily oriented around Brightsword and his history. I've been doing a bit (and when I say 'a bit', I mean a crapton) of fluff over at ATT based around Brightsword's history, as well as the remnants of his Contingent after Es'tau was attacked by the Imperium. My Commander is Shas'el Mont'va (lit. Great Death, trans. Doom Bringer), formerly one of Brightsword's bodyguards (the unnamed one from the novel that escaped the wrath of the Deathwatch Marine).

If you're interested, I can PM you the full TO&E I've created (and am continuing to work on) of Brightsword's Command ca. 996.M41, as well as the comprehensive timeline I've worked out of Brightsword's past (almost entirely made up by myself, of course, with a few nods here and there to historical instances in Tau history). Not sure how into the fluff you are, but some collaborative thought may go leaps and bounds here. :)

Basically, the reason I'm so worked up about the date change of Nimbosa, as well as the Gulf Crusade, is because I've worked so diligently creating a timeline that makes sense, as well as an intriguing political backstory as to why a certain Por'O would want Brightsword dead without wanting to do the dirty work, and then they go and change all their fluff (to include the date of the Nimbosa invasion, which flies in the face of the Cities of Death supplement actually detailing said attack, which says quite clearly that Nimbosa was attacked in the wake of Imperial Guard troop redeployments due to the impending Kraken invasion) without so much as a passing explanation...

I suppose it's my own fault for trying to work up a backstory around one of Games Workshop's own characters (I thought I was in the clear since the last fluff mentioning Brightsword was Aeronautica Imperialis' mention of Nimbosa), but still... It's not like I could have expected GW to completely break their own timeline entirely arbitrarily! ;)

:wtf:

Marshal2Crusaders
09-05-2009, 03:55
I'm telling you Doom-y, it wasn't intentional, but they will never admit it.

DoombringerATT
09-05-2009, 04:03
You're probably right, Marshal.

I just hope the next piece of established Tau fluff (probably in Planetstrike) doesn't continue the trend... :eyebrows:

*Crosses fingers*

Shinzui
09-05-2009, 04:46
I guess GW wanted to turn the Damocles crusade from a tiny skirmish into a proper crusade which no the less will be interesting even if it does destroy past background material which despite GW not liking us calling it fluff they treat it as such.

If I read it right and it is 9 years the events and size must have changed as there isn't enough conflict to last the long. So basically everything we know about it can be thrown out the window. Which can be good and bad. While the Damocles crusade in the current codex is pretty interesting it was so breif and once sided with the majority of it destroying minor colonies (and fighting Tau ships which were never designed for pure conlfict) the potential to see a well done full scale conflict which the Tau fluff has lacked will go a long way to make up from the 'headless chicken' direction they've been going with the Tau fluff.

To me this could be a great move if it is written in properly and not just shoe-horned in with a copy/paste like the 3rd phase and old fluff in Tau Empire codex.

Imperialis_Dominatus
09-05-2009, 06:50
Uhm, the picture shows him with a democharge on the brink of a deep canyon through which the Tau column travels. That's not ludicruous at all IMHO.

The glass-chewing guy is someone who said that he wanted Catachan Devil boots but he couldn't find any that actually was wearing boots. So it's all jokes and tell-tale, not real stuff. He's pretty 'ard nevertheless, but nothing too over-the-top.

Really, this codex fluff is good and reasonable. Read some of it before posting, because people in this thread really give a distorted view of it.

QFT. I just got the new Codex and it's awesome.


Actually Sephiroth, if you read the 5th Edition Rulebook Tau entry, they already went with option 3 as a solution to the Farsight/Shadowsun thing.

They already explained to us that some Tau unnaturally live longer than others, "as if their lifespans were directly linked to the manifest destiny of the Tau Empire".

Personally I think this was perhaps the most deus ex machina I've ever seen in any story, even from BL...

Marshal2Crusaders
09-05-2009, 06:51
You're probably right, Marshal.

I just hope the next piece of established Tau fluff (probably in Planetstrike) doesn't continue the trend... :eyebrows:

*Crosses fingers*

Or the Tau are way better at innovation than we thought...

Brother Siccarius
10-05-2009, 16:39
Personally I think this was perhaps the most deus ex machina I've ever seen in any story, even from BL...

Considering the nature of the Tau Empire, "Deus Ex Machina" isn't too far off. Whether it's genetic engineering, rejuvenating treatment, or simply one taking over where the other left off, it's all very possible. When the Tau worship their own Empire, I don't doubt that it's heroes would be protected and their reigns elongated as much as possible.

I also don't doubt the nature of a second crusade against the Tau.

Zoring
11-05-2009, 16:10
What i love about that little snippet on the Krieg artillery bombardment is that they continued firing for 2 years after all signs of life had stopped.

With a cynical eye you can see that scene exactly. Officers and troops, despite their fearsome reputation as super dedicated killing machines probably decided that a couple more years of pounding rubble with artillery was a far better proposition then being shipped off to some other hellhole.

'A bright day dawns, the sun glinting off the barrels of a dozen heavy artillery tanks, Hauptmann Werner has a sip of recaf, Ack. A bit hot. Nevermind. He lifted his arm to glance at his chrono, it clunked against that awful respirator, no need for that sweaty contraption here thank the Emperor!

Feldwebel Weiss strolled casually up
"Morning mein herr, Batteries almost ready to go soon, the men are having a lie in"

"Ah sehr gut, any signs of life from that pile of rubble over there?"

"Not a peep, mein herr"

"Splendid, well no rush still have my morning crossword to do, we'll give 'em a few rounds before lunch."

"'Em, sir?"

"It. The rubble, you know, reputation to maintain and all that"

"Ah, of course, sir"

Warncke took his cap off and ran his fingers through his hair, ah. What a glorious way to fight a war.'

spacewolf_sven
12-05-2009, 05:59
Just got back from reading the guard codex, this is not a joke unlike my last one.

Rough Riders rout Necrons in a massed cavalry charge.

Cadian 9th defeat a splinter fleet without losing a single company.

Sly Marbo destroys a Gargant.

Elder players weep, Harker and Al’raem both have killed an Autarch, each.

Several hundred tank companies managed to destroy a Chaos titan legion

Chekov pushed back the Vanguard of a hive fleet with a million guard.

The Krieg invade and conquer a rebel world refusing to give tithes.

A catachan regiment cut out the pheromone sacs from a lector and used to lure a tyranids swarm to it’s death.

Iron hand Straken killed a warboss.

There is a cool story about the vahallans who were sent into a combat zone without most of their weapons Enemy-at-the gates style and win.

The first person to kill an ethereal was a Ratling.

I'll grant the first 3 are ridiculous but the others I don't have much trouble with

Inquisitor Engel
12-05-2009, 06:14
Considering the nature of the Tau Empire, "Deus Ex Machina" isn't too far off. Whether it's genetic engineering, rejuvenating treatment, or simply one taking over where the other left off, it's all very possible. When the Tau worship their own Empire, I don't doubt that it's heroes would be protected and their reigns elongated as much as possible.

Despite being told otherwise by a developer, in person, I prefer the idea that Farsight is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the 40k Universe. :)

Hellebore
12-05-2009, 06:42
Despite being told otherwise by a developer, in person, I prefer the idea that Farsight is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the 40k Universe. :)

Which is annoying because on the one hand it means GW does actually think at least SOME parts out before hand and yet on the other hand they will never actually tell us what they are.

Makes me wonder how the hell Lion being at the centre of the Rock got through the screen. I mean that would have been a perfect vague hinted tidbit but they straight up brazenly stated it as so.

It was like they wrote out the entire story with all the spoilers and an editor goes back through removing them but missed that one...

Hellebore

kikkoman
12-05-2009, 08:07
With a cynical eye you can see that scene exactly. Officers and troops, despite their fearsome reputation as super dedicated killing machines probably decided that a couple more years of pounding rubble with artillery was a far better proposition then being shipped off to some other hellhole.


...or it was their way of avoiding actual service

"the tyranid hive fleet's already consumed a dozen whole regiments, we need the Death Korps!"

"uh... sorry sir we're still working on that rebellion, they're holed up in that city real tight, it's gonna take a long while, yep...."

the colonel gets off the phone, then goes back to the pool with the rest of the kriegers, artillery fire laying down the beat to a relaxing latin rhythm.

Hellebore
12-05-2009, 08:09
Might of worked if it was any regiment OTHER than the Death Korps of Krieg though...

Hellebore

NightrawenII
12-05-2009, 09:05
No its very Kriegish, they were order to destroy the Hive, so they bombard it to the last stone standing. Absolute scrupulous.

Marshal2Crusaders
12-05-2009, 09:38
Ah, a regiment of hesitant Kreigsman. It must have been something in that Regiment's gene-map.

Lord_Crull
12-05-2009, 11:13
...or it was their way of avoiding actual service

"the tyranid hive fleet's already consumed a dozen whole regiments, we need the Death Korps!"

"uh... sorry sir we're still working on that rebellion, they're holed up in that city real tight, it's gonna take a long while, yep...."

the colonel gets off the phone, then goes back to the pool with the rest of the kriegers, artillery fire laying down the beat to a relaxing latin rhythm.

But the Krieg LOVE charging alien killing machines screaming while firing thier piddy little rifles and dying like lemmings, anything just feels wrong you know?:D

Zoring
12-05-2009, 14:00
No way, no man wants to go screaming to his death no matter how grisly his planets past was. It just has to be glorious malingering, masquereded perfectly by their image to seem as if they were being brutal.

Cunning lot

Lord_Crull
12-05-2009, 14:23
No way, no man wants to go screaming to his death no matter how grisly his planets past was. It just has to be glorious malingering, masquereded perfectly by their image to seem as if they were being brutal.

Cunning lot

Watch Starship Troopers, you have these waves of guys charging screaming at alien death machines the size of hummers. It's like the national pastime is dying or something.

Zoring
12-05-2009, 14:25
Yea until they all get gribbled up, then there all screaming in the other direction :P

Lord_Crull
12-05-2009, 14:33
Come on? who wants to live forever? The Krieg sure don't! these are the guys who engage in trench warfare for fun.

Zoring
12-05-2009, 14:35
A sensible soldier knows a nice deep trench is a far safer prospect then a demented bayonet charge or open fields combat. :P

Solar_Eclipse
12-05-2009, 14:41
A sensible soldier knows a nice deep trench is a far safer prospect then a demented bayonet charge or open fields combat. :P

Death Korps arent sensible soldiers.

They have the minds of Children and the Death Wish of a religious extremist.

They charge because they are told to and they know they mean nothing, they have been told that since birth.

Lord_Crull
12-05-2009, 14:44
A sensible soldier knows a nice deep trench is a far safer prospect then a demented bayonet charge or open fields combat. :P

Where's the fun in that? Charge you apes! We will drown them in corpses!:D

(Seriously, in Vraks they die like lemmings, Somme style)

FarseerMatt
12-05-2009, 16:15
A sensible soldier knows a nice deep trench is a far safer prospect then a demented bayonet charge or open fields combat. :P

Static warfare will be the death of you ("Incoming!"). Mobility! Mobility is the key!

Well, that and good logistics. :cool:

NightrawenII
12-05-2009, 17:09
And Titans, Orbital bombardment and WHAT its the most important GUTS.

Zoring
12-05-2009, 17:22
Static warfare will be the death of you ("Incoming!"). Mobility! Mobility is the key!

Well, that and good logistics. :cool:

Bah we can just dig further down down down! and then channel lava up at you bahahah!

Ranger S2H
12-05-2009, 20:21
marbo bringing down a gargant is entirely possible, u can read how in the TSOALR comics from last week to now.
and the best thing is: the black templars couldnt do it^^

Marshal2Crusaders
13-05-2009, 04:15
Because TSOALR is canon right? Right? Right? No.

Sir Charles
13-05-2009, 04:18
Because TSOALR is canon right? Right? Right? No.
If it's not it should be, its no more out there then some of the stuff GW has done of late and a lot funnier.:D;)

The Anarchist
13-05-2009, 05:38
If it's not it should be, its no more out there then some of the stuff GW has done of late and a lot funnier.:D;)

if you want funny that it is totaly GW endorssed read Calgars fluff, thats funny, in a sad what have we become way sort of funny.