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Penitent Engine
27-04-2009, 09:58
Hi! Looking at the new IG codex (actually, the leaked bits :rolleyes:), I'm having trouble deciding what to use as troops-infantry platoons, or Veterans?
My units have appropriate background for both (eg, one squad killed a GUO with a lasgun), but from a purely gaming perspective I can't make up my mind.
What do you think?

Vote Kantor
27-04-2009, 10:02
I am having the same problem you are, with the more expensive kasyrkins and everything, im just going to do a few tests with each.

Gensuke626
27-04-2009, 10:04
Take platoons if you want a mass of bodies to hold objectives or to march on objectives. Also take platoons if you want Conscripts, Heavy Weapon Squads, Special weapon Squads, or the special platoon commanders. Generally, if you want your GUard army to play like a Horde Army, take platoons.

Take veterans if you want guys that are a cut above the rest. If you want stormtrooper-esque soldiers, or just need to have a small army, or want to add to the weight of a platoon, take Veterans.

slightlyplausible
27-04-2009, 10:22
Platoons should be used for the the numbers, to hold objectives, and to form the main battle line.

Veterans excel in special weapon delivery. Pop them in a Chimera with heavy flamers and max out on plasma guns and you have a very effective fire base.

Khornies & milk
27-04-2009, 11:13
I'm going Mech with a mix of both, so an Al'Rahem/Infantry Squads Platoon and multiple Vet Squads....all in Chimeras and/or Valkyries.

SylverClaw
27-04-2009, 11:32
I'm viewing them as platoon upgrades, taking one to support each infantry platoon with their improved stat-line. Giving them camo cloaks not only fits my all infantry company theme but means they are tough to kill when you use them like that.

The basic platoons make great objective holders and mass-fire units in general, or when you keep them cheap they are great road bumps and walking cover for your more expensive veterans.

Having a few accurate meltas huddled behind a mob of cheap-o warm bodies will give any armour you run into a headache.

Probably wouldn't use them outside of an infantry army though. I think they are too expensive/not cost effective enough to mount in a Valk when you could have some stormtroopers instead. Mmm... AP3 lasguns...

On the other hand... I can see a mass swarm with demo charge/melta/plasma upgrade with Sly/outflankers causing a distraction being pretty handy for a fast moving game. 50/50 on whether that would be actually successul.

RCgothic
27-04-2009, 11:50
I'll use both.

2 platoons of 30 guardsmen with autocannons and plasmaguns, sgt with power weapon, commissar, maybe the odd priest, Creed or Straken. Sit back, gun down the enemy as they close, then as they get into charge range assault them. S4, I4, re-rolling hits. Nice.

The Veterans will be in chimeras and go tank hunting with meltabombs, meltaguns and a demolitions charge.

Sir_Turalyon
27-04-2009, 12:23
I'd use platoons with supporting veterans for infrantry based armies. For vehicle / mechanized / special units themed armies i'd take veteran squads to back up "main" units and hold objectives.

Captain Micha
27-04-2009, 13:12
I prefer both myself. One to camp out, and one to go do what must be done.

totgeboren
27-04-2009, 13:43
A mix would work best. Guards are just not tough enough to work with an all-vet force, unless you put them all in chimeras maybe.

Having a platoon or two of standard guards gives you access to more officers, whom you can use to buff your veterans if you want to.

The standard grunts give you the needed manpower for either firesupport or an advance, whilst the vets give you that extra hitting power that the standard grunts lack.

For example, re-con vets with a lascannon and plasmaguns (so they will attract every single gun in the enemy army) will be a very nice fire-support unit, not only for the firepower that can dish out, but because your enemy will probably target them with alot of firepower.
The camo-cloaks will mean that they can take alot of firepower, especially combined with go to ground for a 2+ cover save. If you have a Senior officer close by, you can even order them to "get back in the fight", meaning you get to shoot anyway, whilst having absorbed a huge amount of incoming fire.

The grunts on their own would likely suffer alot more losses, with some breaking, meaning it would be harder for your officer to managed the battle line.
The vets on their own however would lack the numbers to deal with enemy hordes, and also, vets are to expensive for being used as speedbumbs, which is something I at least use to great effect when facing fast enemies like assault marines or Nob bikers.

On the other hand, grunts work great as speedbumbs, and vets work great when being supported by a speedbumb unit.

Bunnahabhain
27-04-2009, 15:22
Unless I'm doing fully mechanised, then both.
If I have a tank company with mechanised infantry support, then the vetrans are the natural choice. i don't have many men, so they need to be competant.

If I'm having men on the ground, want lots of men on the ground, so that means platoons. A few veteran squads with them, who can fill any number of roles, will be crucial. Besides, I need some elite infantry to go and deal with stuff, and I am not using storm troopers.
Twice the price, for a non scoring unit, with a hell-gun scarcely better than a lasgun, and less special weapons than the veterans? No thanks.

Lovejoy
27-04-2009, 15:25
I'm going with platoons for the main part. I might throw in a vet squad from time to time when I fancy some multiple special weapon goodness.
But for most games, the vets are just to expensive - they suck up points I can spend on other things.

Xenobane
27-04-2009, 15:30
I am not using storm troopers.
Twice the price, for a non scoring unit, with a hell-gun scarcely better than a lasgun, and less special weapons than the veterans? No thanks.

I agree with you on their doubtful cost-effectiveness but come, there's no need for exaggeration. Hell-gun scarcely better than lasgun? Good luck trying to find a Marine player who agrees with you there.

Cane
27-04-2009, 15:33
So far my 5th edition list has only platoons as its troop choices. Against my regular Ork opponent, Veteran squads seem pretty useless and overpriced unless I was trying to go with a low amount of infantry in my list...which isn't how the Guard is effective imo. However if they are within range to recieve orders that might help in some respects, but the command radius is pretty small...in which case you could just have a suicide platoon command squad instead of Veterans.

edward3h
27-04-2009, 15:34
I'll be using two or three platoons, plus two veterans squads (at least to start with). We'll see how that works out.

Latro_
27-04-2009, 16:38
Both seems to be a good combo
Meat an potatoes platoons for grunt work and home objective holding. 20 men in a combined squad with a commi and a few power weapons seems to be a good base, mainly due to the fact they'll be very hard to make run away.

Melta toting veterans in a chimera as a shock force/enemy objective capture is also a great unit for 150ish pts.

I'd be tempted to have two such veteran units in chimeras with fists, 6 bs4 meltas who can fire from the chimera hatch can certainly pack a punch.

gamer2456
27-04-2009, 17:01
I'm going with platoons. Veterans are cool but I want to be able to thrown down ridiculous amounts of chimeras for dirt cheap (points wise)

MrBims
27-04-2009, 17:13
I agree with you on their doubtful cost-effectiveness but come, there's no need for exaggeration. Hell-gun scarcely better than lasgun? Good luck trying to find a Marine player who agrees with you there.

Marine players aren't exactly the most reliable or unbiased source in this matter. They whined and cried when the first rumors came out, and they're still going to whine and cry about it, even when we're seeing that nobody uses Stormtroopers at all anymore.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
27-04-2009, 17:43
Platoons to form a firebase, Veterans in Chimeras to act as a mobile element. 65 Points for a grenade launcher/autocanon squad is marvelous for platoons, whereas veterans arent too expensive if you just buy them special weapons and nothing else.

Culven
27-04-2009, 18:20
I have two IG armies, so I will be taking two different approaches. For my Catachans, I plan to convert my Assault Teams into Veterans with Camo Cloaks (essentially making them Catachan Devils). These will be my specialists, with Infantry Platoons being used for general anti-hoarde (Merged Infantry Squads with Heavy Bolters), and long-range anti-Tank (Heavy Weapon Squads with Missile Launchers).

For my Adeptus Mechanicus, I plan to use Grenadiers for my Troops, Storm Troopers for Elites, and as much Armour as I can fit whilst still having some ability to hold objectives.

Xenobane
27-04-2009, 19:07
Marine players aren't exactly the most reliable or unbiased source in this matter. They whined and cried when the first rumors came out, and they're still going to whine and cry about it, even when we're seeing that nobody uses Stormtroopers at all anymore.

I know, it's true :D

Mine was a slightly facetious post. I still think it's fair to say that the hellgun is rather startlingly better than the lasgun against a significant number of 40k units, notwithstanding the fact that ST's may be overpriced. And certainly extremely situational.

On topic, as Vets now have to be fielded in squads of 10 I only have enough for one squad. Once I've got the models together I expect I'll end up running 2 squads on a regular basis, in a wide variety of load-outs and roles. Other than on the very occasional game I won't be fielding a mech-vets list, so they will normally be supported by a load of bog-standard infantry. And, now and again, Storm Troopers.

sliganian
27-04-2009, 19:13
One VERY ANNOYING thing in the new IG book:

Veterans do NOT get a "LP/CCW" option. Neither do the extra Special Weapons team guys.

Guess who had two full units of Veterans and a couple of Special Teams (snipers). Grumble, grumble. So much for 20 or so conversions. :mad:

Latro_
27-04-2009, 19:26
One VERY ANNOYING thing in the new IG book:

Veterans do NOT get a "LP/CCW" option. Neither do the extra Special Weapons team guys.

Guess who had two full units of Veterans and a couple of Special Teams (snipers). Grumble, grumble. So much for 20 or so conversions. :mad:

hehe you can use them as bodyguards dude ;)
You just need to do about 10 IG armies with 2 hq each :)

sliganian
27-04-2009, 19:32
hehe you can use them as bodyguards dude ;)
You just need to do about 10 IG armies with 2 hq each :)

Yeah. That's the only way actually. Ask me how happy I am. Go on, do it! :p

I was hoping that "Penal Legion" dudes would have LP/CCW. Nope, not a chance.

Now, if only I had a Chaos Codex that I wanted, I could bring them in as Alpha Legion cultists.

Captain Micha
27-04-2009, 19:46
I'm glad I'm only working on one world right now...

Eventually though I'm going to be helpless... so many more guard yet to do.

Culven
27-04-2009, 21:02
Now, if only I had a Chaos Codex that I wanted, I could bring them in as Alpha Legion cultists.
That would be the old Chaos Space Marine codex. Looks like GW just doesn't want you to use those models. :p

Latro_
27-04-2009, 21:19
Ooo hang on, bit of salvation dude. Just noticed in a Infantry command squad or command HQ any guardsmen can exchange his lasgun for a laspistol!

Maine
27-04-2009, 21:48
I'm going true Steel Legion - platoons fully mounted in Chimeras. My Storm Troopers are initially going to have a trial run as STs, but may see themselves dropped to Veteran/Carapace status.

My 2K list looks like (in short):

Command HQ in Chimera
Stormtroopers
Platoon w/2 squads, all in Chimeras
Platoon w/2 squads, all in Chimeras
Valkyrie
Leman Russ
Leman Russ
2 Basilisk Squadron

Firaxin
27-04-2009, 23:39
One VERY ANNOYING thing in the new IG book:

Veterans do NOT get a "LP/CCW" option. Neither do the extra Special Weapons team guys.

Guess who had two full units of Veterans and a couple of Special Teams (snipers). Grumble, grumble. So much for 20 or so conversions. :mad:


I was hoping that "Penal Legion" dudes would have LP/CCW. Nope, not a chance.

Dude, I'm in the same boat.
...I had quite a few more conversions though. My CC guard army is doomed!

Imperius
27-04-2009, 23:52
Veterans are a better choice tactically, but if you want to to win 65% of the time in any area while having fun at the same time. The choice is fully loaded platoons.

sliganian
28-04-2009, 01:26
Dude, I'm in the same boat.
...I had quite a few more conversions though. My CC guard army is doomed!

I feel ESPECIALLY bad for anyone who -- in good faith -- did a "Warrior Weapons" doctrine army. Now THAT is major screwed over. Moreso than even Emperor's Children in the last Chaos Codex (and that is saying a lot).

As for LP/CCW in the Command Platoons, there is only so much to go around. At the moment, I am considering this for 1,500 points, modified from my current IG:

HQ
Company Command Squad: Senior Officer: LasPistol, Powerfist
1 Vox 1 Veteran LasCannon Team (2 Vets) 1 Medi-Pack 2 BodyGuards
AstroPath

TROOPS
ALPHA PLATOON - "Curls' Crushers"
Alpha Command: Curls McGruder: Junior Officer with Bolter
1 Veteran LasCannon team 1 Sniper 1 Vox

Alpha-1 Squad, 1 Vox, 1 LasCannon, 1 Sniper

Alpha-2 Squad Sgt with Bolt Pistol, 1 Vox, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Sniper

Special Weapons Squad 3 Sniper Rifles, 3 LasGuns
Special Weapons Squad 3 Flamers, 3 LasGuns
Heavy Weapons Squad Lobby Slowhand's Crew: 3 Mortars, 3 LasGuns
Heavy Weapons Squad MetalStorm: 3 Heavy Bolters, 3 LasGuns

Bruno's Blasters (Veterans) - 1 Sgt, 9 Veterans
AutoCannon, Vox 3 Grenade Launchers Bruno: Shotgun (WAS a bolter), Powerfist

Old Scorchy's Brigade - 1 Sgt., 9 Veterans 3 Plasma Guns
Vox 1 Missile Launcher Old Scorchy: Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon
CHIMERA: Multi-laser, Heavy Bolter, smoke, dozer

FAST ATTACK
3 Sentinels with MultiLasers, smoke launchers

Buckin' Boomslangs 10 Rough Riders: Sgt with Meltabombs

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ MBT: Heavy Bolter Sponsons Dozer Blade
Basilisk

As you can see, only 2 Command Platoons. I can get maybe 4-6 of the LP/CCW in there somehow. The other 15 or so, no so much. :(

Lyinar
28-04-2009, 01:53
I'd say get Platoons AND Veteran Squads... Platoons for numbers and massed firepower, Veterans to fulfill specialist roles, like the Sappers I'll be converting to destroy bunkers and burninate whoever is in them (and take out tanks if they have to).

One little quirk of the wording for the Veterans... If you want to blow almost 100 points on it, you can give them all of the squad upgrades. So you can have a squad with Carapace Armour, Camo Cloaks, defensive grenades, melta bombs, and a demolition charge, in addition to the normal equipment options. I wouldn't, but then again, I don't think a single squad of my Combat Engineers should cost more points than a reasonably kitted-out Marine Squad. :p

sliganian
28-04-2009, 02:24
I'd say get Platoons AND Veteran Squads... Platoons for numbers and massed firepower, Veterans to fulfill specialist roles, like the Sappers I'll be converting to destroy bunkers and burninate whoever is in them (and take out tanks if they have to).

One little quirk of the wording for the Veterans... If you want to blow almost 100 points on it, you can give them all of the squad upgrades. So you can have a squad with Carapace Armour, Camo Cloaks, defensive grenades, melta bombs, and a demolition charge, in addition to the normal equipment options. I wouldn't, but then again, I don't think a single squad of my Combat Engineers should cost more points than a reasonably kitted-out Marine Squad. :p

Yeah, those Veteran upgrades seem a poor buy to me. If at least "Forward Sentries" allowed one to, I dunno, say deploy as a Forward Sentry (Scout) then it *might* be worth it if only for the Outflank benefit. As it is, the upgrades are basically around 3 pts. a model.

The other "Grrrr..." moment is that Rough Riders all with Meltabombs were worth it from all reports. Oh, but they don't get that now, that benefit moved to the Veterans. A group of Veterans with all meltabombs...meh. I always find mbombs almost NEVER worth it. Sure, maybe a Sgt. can take them as a weapon of opportunity but a whole squad? Not so much.

Snotteef
28-04-2009, 02:55
I'll put in my vote for both as well. I think platoons are more important, but a squad or two of veterans adds a little punch. I'm thinking 2 meltaguns and one flamer for a lil' versatility.

GreenDracoBob
28-04-2009, 03:06
The only good thing I see with the Demolitions doctrine is how much more worth it it is compared to the other two. Hmm, the Demoltion charge more than half of the total cost in any other squad, plus you get Melta Bombs. Sounds like a deal, too bad its still pretty pricy (as Demolition Charges seem expensive in other places).

Still fun options, if not wholly competitive.

LordofWar1986
28-04-2009, 03:16
Vets and platoon are like comparing apples and oranges....

Numbers vs. Specialty.....

Painting a lot vs. Painting a little.....

Getting more practice vs. Not getting as much practice.....

Gotta love it!! :p

Lyinar
28-04-2009, 03:25
Well, my intention for the Combat Engineers is to take the Demolitions upgrade, hand a couple of them Meltaguns, another a Heavy Flamer, everyone else but the Sergeant gets shotguns, and they advance under cover toward any pesky defensive structures in the way and unload all of their short-ranged firepower into the structure and/or whatever's in it. If there aren't any structures, they get to be a secondary or tertiary option for dealing with tanks.

I might end up breaking the concept into two squads. One with meltas and the Demolitions upgrade, and one with a pair of flamers and a Heavy Flamer (since it's 0-1 per squad) to provide defense and spew burning promethium inside any structures that manage to survive the fusion beams and explody death.

Maine
28-04-2009, 07:01
I feel ESPECIALLY bad for anyone who -- in good faith -- did a "Warrior Weapons" doctrine army. Now THAT is major screwed over. Moreso than even Emperor's Children in the last Chaos Codex (and that is saying a lot).

I'd hope anyone who would go so far as to do that would know that they were taking a risk; the more off-standard you get the more likely it is your army will be in serious trouble in the next 'dex.

Vaktathi
28-04-2009, 07:10
Hi! Looking at the new IG codex (actually, the leaked bits :rolleyes:), I'm having trouble deciding what to use as troops-infantry platoons, or Veterans?
My units have appropriate background for both (eg, one squad killed a GUO with a lasgun), but from a purely gaming perspective I can't make up my mind.
What do you think?

Start with Platoons. With this codex they *must* be the core of your force for an effective army (at least, in my opinion). Use veterans to fill a niche may be lacking in your army (like plasma-spam or something).

Platoons will give you more bodies and more guns, vets will give you some hard hitting firepower where you may be lacking or as a reaction unit. Trying to build an army around only vets as your troops will be very difficult and relatively fragile compared with a Platoon force.

Penitent Engine
28-04-2009, 08:21
OK, so judging by the undecided nature of those responses, here's my 750pts-ish list (not yet having the codex):
HQ
Company Command-Medic, Autocannon, Vox

TROOPS
Platoon CIV
Command-Missile Launcher, Vox
Squad I-Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Vox
Squad I-Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Vox

Squad III (Veterans)-Flamer, Meltagun, Sgt. w. Plasma Pistol, Vox
Chimera-Multilaser, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ-Heavy Bolter sponsons, hull lascannon

I also have some snipers that I could chuck in, but are they useable in squads of 6 (5 snipers, 1 guy)?? And some GKS, and a Vindicare.

Vaktathi
28-04-2009, 08:28
I'd make the Missile Launchers into autocannons and drop the AC from the command group and give them either 2 melta's, or 4 grenade launchers/flamers.

SnakeWind
28-04-2009, 09:22
I'd hope anyone who would go so far as to do that would know that they were taking a risk; the more off-standard you get the more likely it is your army will be in serious trouble in the next 'dex.

And you tell us this NOW...:rolleyes:

Penitent Engine
28-04-2009, 12:10
Platoons will give you more bodies and more guns, vets will give you some hard hitting firepower where you may be lacking or as a reaction unit. Trying to build an army around only vets as your troops will be very difficult and relatively fragile compared with a Platoon force.
@ Vaktathi:
While I agree about the 'more-bodies-is-better' approach, surely the Veteran army is not that fragile? Sure, there may be a few (OK, a lot) less of them, but for that, and Grenadiers, you get an army that has the full benefit of orders from the HQ, BS4, good LD and a 4+ overall save. That's pretty damn good. Mount them all in Chimeras, with a lot of Meltaguns and some heavy flamers, plus some sentinel/Russ squadrons, and that's a scary mech army. Or even a sneaky gunline-hide in cover, "Hit the deck" (or whatever), "Get back in the fight". 2+ cover saves with Cameleoline, and then fire the next turn? Rangers eat your hearts out!!
About changing the missile launchers-I can't. Really. Anyway, I'm not looking for a close assault-orientated command strike force. Their job is to sit back and boss everyone around, like all good IG commanders! The flamer's just there for dispelling nosy scouting Scouts, Kommandos, Genestealers (alright, maybe not getting THAT close to those) etc.
And now we should probably stop talking about my list, or this thread will be shifted :)

Killgore
28-04-2009, 12:57
as mentioned ealier i believe veterans should be used as support for a platoon

For my Steel Legion platoons iv purchased 15 meltaguns and 15 plasmaguns and 3 boxs of men to convert into special weapon dudes for veteran/ special weapon squads :D


an effective guard army should imho be a mass of platoon manpower supported by veterans... something like a 3:1- 4:1 ratio

to many veterans and they get gunned down to easy, to many platoon squads and you got no 'punch' which the vet squads higher BS and special weapons provide.

Captain Micha
28-04-2009, 14:55
I have to ask, with the new guard boxes, are we finally getting plastic plasma and plastic melta guns?

Vaktathi
28-04-2009, 14:57
@ Vaktathi:
While I agree about the 'more-bodies-is-better' approach, surely the Veteran army is not that fragile? Sure, there may be a few (OK, a lot) less of them, but for that, and Grenadiers, you get an army that has the full benefit of orders from the HQ, BS4, good LD and a 4+ overall save. That's pretty damn good. Mount them all in Chimeras, with a lot of Meltaguns and some heavy flamers, plus some sentinel/Russ squadrons, and that's a scary mech army. The problem is, two kitted Vet squads in chimera's cost about as much as a 35man kitted mech platoon.

Would you rather have 20 dudes an 2 tanks, or 35 with 4 tanks and another Order issuing unit? Bear in mind with the new Chimera rules, 5 models can fire out of the top hatch and it no longer counts as open topped, so the platoon still gets it's full gunline firepower capacity minus a few lasgun shots and the Grendiers extra save means much less unless they get shot out of their transport. The platoon would have 3-4 heavy weapons, 5-7 special weapons, plus the 8 heavy weapons from the chimera's for the same cost as the 2 vet squads with 4 heavy weapons from the chimera's, 2 heavy weapons in the squads, and up to 6 special weapons.

Captain Micha
28-04-2009, 15:14
But if the Chimera moves the squad won't be getting it's heavy weapons fire.

Personally if I intend on the squad moving more than twice, I don't give them heavy weapons. Which the Veterans are perfect for (triple special weapons anyone?)

Those 20 guys also have much greater chances of hitting their targets.

It really depends on what you are after, personally I feel if you are going mech use Vets.

Griefbringer
28-04-2009, 17:16
I have to ask, with the new guard boxes, are we finally getting plastic plasma and plastic melta guns?

AFAIK yes, but only in the new five man command squad boxes.

Captain Micha
28-04-2009, 17:18
Damn. I was hoping for a reason for there to be such a large money increase in the new 10 man boxes. (like them getting good special weapons that aren't flamers)

Vaktathi
28-04-2009, 17:38
But if the Chimera moves the squad won't be getting it's heavy weapons fire. Yes, but it really shouldn't need to except towards the end to rush to objectives. You'd play it as a normal gunline, but with mobile bunkers and more heavy weapons. 400something points for 4 medium tanks, 35 infantry, 11-12 heavy weapons, 5-7 special weapons, and an Order's giving Officer is extremely cost efficient, whereas with carapace mechanized grenadiers you are only getting 4-6 heavy weapons, 6 specials, only 2 tanks and 20 infantry and no officer.



Those 20 guys also have much greater chances of hitting their targets. Individually yes, but the greater number of weapons and bodies should more than make up for it unless using a Vet Squad as a special reaction unit (like to deal with DS'ing termi's)

The platoons work better as a static heavy gunline, fitting in lots of very cheap heavy weapons and negating the use of many of your opponents anti-infantry weapons. The Vets work better as a mobile force, but really don't have the staying power to form the core of an army without at least a good sized platoon to provide an anvil. Vet's make a great addition as a rapid reaction force, but not quite as a base to build the army around.

Captain Micha
28-04-2009, 17:44
I play with both in my army (no chimeras though. The price of Side and rear armor 10 is still too high in my opinion)

I might try Chimeras in mass, but I'm leery of them. I look at them and go "one of those is a squad of shock troops".

I do agree though, you should have at least one platoon in your force to go with Vets. And if you take Vets it's generally best to take two squads.

One thing Vets do well though is Ride Of The Valkyries. Which is basically like Fish of fury but better. (because of plasma or melta) I imagine that a Ride army doesn't really require a Platoon to be on the field to be effective.

Vaktathi
28-04-2009, 18:01
massed Chimera's are a good way to get in a lot more anti-infantry heavy weapons and protect your dudes from small arms fire. If you're going to take them, take a lot. if fielded en-masse the side armor is less of a concern as you can basically make a wall of them and block the side armor from view.

You get more guns and can basically negate the usefulness of your opponents heavy bolters and the like, while still making full use of your squads weapons.

EDIT: It also contributes greatly to a foe's frustration with anti-tank. If they've only got a couple lascannons and a maybe a frew Krak missiles, then they realize they've got to kill 12-16 vehicles ranging from AV12 to 14, *AND* a lot of infantry, they are going to find themselves woefully under equipped. Running two well kitted medium sized platoons along with a brace of Leman Russ tanks and some Valks/Vendetta's will provide you with all the firepower you need to counter any threat, while simultaneously negating much of your opponents firepower and spreading out much of the rest.

Johnnyfrej
28-04-2009, 18:18
That's a good question.

Come to think of it, which should I use for my CSM? Thousand Sons or Khorne Berzerkers? There both troops right? So therefor one must be better than the other 100% of the time and I should just forget about the others.

OR... both have their own purpose and usefulness. There is a time and place for every unit. Personally I plan on taking two Mechanized Platoons combined with two squads of Demolition Veterans w/ Meltas as my standard 2k troops.