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View Full Version : Who is more depraved, EC or DE?



Prokrustes
28-04-2009, 15:49
Yeah, just out of curiosity. Who do you think is more depraved, the Emperors Children or the Dark Eldar?

I mean the Dark Eldar have better senses and are prolly more creative(?) but the Emperor´s Children are willingly worshipping Slaanesh and create drugs out of any sentient beings and stuff like that...

Troah
28-04-2009, 15:50
DE, they live for the depravity.

SimpleSquid
28-04-2009, 15:55
EC. I always got the idea that DE would torture you for years, but the EC would errm.. "do things" to you in a more disturbing slannesh sence, as well as torture for however long they felt like it.

Mannimarco
28-04-2009, 16:08
DE without a doubt

the DE revel in both the phsyical and pscychological/mental torture, with the EC its pretty intense but its still just phsyical

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 16:09
By human standards, I'd go with Dark Eldar. Eldar are capable of greater extremes than humans.

However, Dark Eldar lean more towards torture, usually torturing other beings, whereas EC and Slaaneshi in general are more about their own experiences, which is a phase the Dark Eldar already passed through.

will564752
28-04-2009, 16:09
I mean the Dark Eldar have better senses

I would say the Emperors Children have better senses (firstly of course how do you define 'better senses!') - but for example there "...hearing is a thousand times keener than a normal persons..."

But there senses are also distorted.

And i would definatly say the EC are more depraved, they actually worship Slaanesh. Where as the DE are depraved out of necessity.

Condottiere
28-04-2009, 16:14
Once you dedicate yourself to Chaos, it might only be a matter of degrees - I'll go with DE as being more depraved.

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 16:20
Where as the DE are depraved out of necessity.

Dark Eldar do what they do because they like to.

In the words of Asdrubael Vect, "Why not?"

Legionary
28-04-2009, 16:33
If you were captured by the Emperor's Children, I have a feeling you might end up corrupted to enjoy it. The Dark Eldar torture only for their own enjoyment.

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 17:05
If you were captured by the Emperor's Children, I have a feeling you might end up corrupted to enjoy it. The Dark Eldar torture only for their own enjoyment.

If you're able to enjoy torturing people, and enjoy your own conditions, there's a small chance a Haemonculus might take you on as an apprentice. Odds of surviving that are even lower, but if you somehow do complete training they'll send you back into the galaxy to bring more humans into their service. You'll also be one of the best torturers in the human species.

Ubermensch Commander
28-04-2009, 17:14
Eh...both are fairly sick and twisted by most beings standards.
I believe the differences are fairly minute/dependent on the situation and poor bastards involved. Both have their "reasons" for doing what they do, mostly its all about self gratification for both, with an edge of desperation for the DE.
Actually I think EC are more depraved as their is no description (that i can recall) that have DE engaging in the "raep time" like the EC do.

Vaulkhar
28-04-2009, 17:25
I'm going to vote for the EC. The DE have at least got the excuse of compulsion, given that it's a case of eat or be eaten for them. The EC do it purely for kicks.

It should be noted that none of that is any help (or consolation) should either category of sadistic, twisted, evil hedonist lay hands on you.

pointyteeth
28-04-2009, 18:22
thats a tough one. The DE just have this "BOO, we're gonna torture you ooOOoo" feel while the EC have more of a "we're gonna do things to you that GW isn't allowed to write in this codex". On the other hand, the DE are carrying on with the twisted, hedonistic lifestyle that created Slaanesh.....

laudarkul
28-04-2009, 18:37
DE are the definition of depravity since is in their blood. The EC just miss coupled of ten's of thousands years of experience.

Col. Tartleton
28-04-2009, 18:37
thats a tough one. The DE just have this "BOO, we're gonna torture you ooOOoo" feel while the EC have more of a "we're gonna do things to you that GW isn't allowed to write in this codex". On the other hand, the DE are carrying on with the twisted, hedonistic lifestyle that created Slaanesh.....

We have my opinion stated clearly.

DE are going to torture you by psychologically breaking you down over the course of months or years by slowly corroding your worth as a living creature with all kinds of mental and physical abuse. Then from there when you are in your deepest pit of despair they're going to drag you naked out from your dog cage and remove your little collar and embarrassing bondage gear. They will poke and prod you and keep you awake for days with everything using torture techniques Japanese war criminals in WWII would declare inhumane and never to be used. Then when you have no worth living and have been broken with a lack of sleep, food, and sympathy you will talk and talk. But that's not why they're doing it. They don't care about your life story. They have a different mission entirely. Regardless you recite everything you know that you think they may want to know, your fears, your weaknesses, your smallest sin. You have broken to the point where you have come to see them as gods and you have bared your soul to these beings of ultimate punishment. Then the knives come out, incredibly thin and delicate they slide between tissues painlessly and your find that you won't die regardless of you they do to you and you watch in horror as they separate you tissues by tissues but leave you just intact enough that the body won't die. Then they leave and slowly the shock drains from you and you find the pain coming. But you cannot move, you cannot escape, your cannot even scream. You are totally unaware as they use arcane technologies to peel away the shell that protects your soul that has suffered so much and then they remove it and all is gone.

But the point is that GW could put that in their codex. They don't but they could.

They can not however ever put half the things the EC would do to you.

Imperialis_Dominatus
28-04-2009, 18:43
Dark Eldar are the ones continuing what created Slaanesh. Emperor's Children are noobs in that respect. Sorry.

Johnnyfrej
28-04-2009, 19:07
My money is on the Emperor's Children for three reasons.

First, they are (or rather were) humans at one time and not filthy xenos scum.

Second, just because you were the creator of something doesn't make you the master. While the DE may have created Slaanesh, the EC embraced him/her and have had ten thousand years to come up with even more sadistic acts than the ones that created Slaanesh (this is under the assumption that Slaanesh knew what created it and how to make
"improvements").

Third, if there was a "Torture-off" I think the EC would win. Nothing the DE could do would harm the EC. They are total masochist after all. However, the DE don't actually like being tortured themselves (except maybe Hoemunculi). Also the EC could probably find some way of giving the Eldar's soul over to Slaanesh without actually killing him.

Vaktathi
28-04-2009, 19:14
I don't think the DE are as debauched as the EC. They are pretty high up there, but it's still all about routes to power to avoid being consumed by he/she that thirsts. The EC are in it purely because they are into it.

The DE aren't going to have a giant fecal blood space orgy to crazy techno music while committing brutal slaughter the like, they're just sadistic and cruel and turn that into a...hobby. The EC party hardy like that all the time, and are also cruel and sadistic. They're as likely to hurt themselves for fun as another, where the DE (in most cases save things like Mandrakes or Grotesques) likely wouldn't.

Talos
28-04-2009, 19:31
I am really not sure which one would be worse if I could help it I would prefer not to be captured by either.
Also people I really dont think the EC rape people, I wish people would get over slaanesh is all about sex its about so much more.
SM dont have sex or any sexual urges due to the black carapaces unless GW have changed that fluff which I dont think they have.

Mannimarco
28-04-2009, 19:42
way back in the mists of time the did go on a rape spree during horus attack on terra, this was retconned

Col. Tartleton
28-04-2009, 19:45
They didn't just "rape" people they chemically processed their victims into stimulants like endorphins, adrenaline, and dopamine. Its arguably the coolest psychotic thing ever.

Mannimarco
28-04-2009, 19:57
i suppose its pretty neat, i still see the DE as the masters of physical and psychological torture though

EC crave sensation and do some pretty extreme stuff but they do become immune to it after a short time meaning they have to do somthing even worse, they just dont have the patience to go to the same level as the DE

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 20:15
Third, if there was a "Torture-off" I think the EC would win. Nothing the DE could do would harm the EC.

Oh? How do you think utter hedonists would enjoy sensory deprivation? Imagine you're an EC CSM. You desire extremes of sensation above all else. Now a Haemonculus captures you. Your bones are removed, your organs simplified and your body reduced until you're nothing but a lump of flesh with a brain inside and some primitive digestive organs, connected to a nutrient feed. You cannot feel anything. No sound. No sight. Cannot fight. Cannot take drugs. Cannot do anything. And then you're left like that for thousands of years, or until the haemonculus gets bored. It would be utter, horrifying torment for an EC CSM.



However, the DE don't actually like being tortured themselves.

You're wrong. Dark Eldar will torture themselves if there's nothing else to torture, or if they just love it that much. Quite a few Grotesques are formed that way.

Poseidal
28-04-2009, 20:15
way back in the mists of time the did go on a rape spree during horus attack on terra, this was retconned

For humans, that's a travesty.

For Dark Eldar, that's Tuesday.

Mannimarco
28-04-2009, 20:31
that was almost a street fighter the movie quote there

i do like what Zahr Dalsk said there, the haemonculus are the masters of torture, theyd find a way to break anything, evn an EC marine, and id completely forgot about the grotesques

I se DE as more calculating in their sadism, more so than the EC and their "hey thats new lets do it til it bores us"

wow even match in the polls!

i blame the sorry excuse that is the DE codex, not enough people know about the DE, they just dont have as much depth and history written about them

Johnnyfrej
28-04-2009, 20:39
Oh? How do you think utter hedonists would enjoy sensory deprivation? Imagine you're an EC CSM. You desire extremes of sensation above all else. Now a Haemonculus captures you. Your bones are removed, your organs simplified and your body reduced until you're nothing but a lump of flesh with a brain inside and some primitive digestive organs, connected to a nutrient feed. You cannot feel anything. No sound. No sight. Cannot fight. Cannot take drugs. Cannot do anything. And then you're left like that for thousands of years, or until the haemonculus gets bored. It would be utter, horrifying torment for an EC CSM.

I think the EC would enjoy it more than the Haemonculus. Remember, they are tainted. You cannot simply "remove" parts from any Chaos Marine without it sprouting eyes and tentacles and trying to eat you. Hell, they even have acidic blood on on of the Caiphas novels (It was the Slaanesh vs. Khorne cultist one).

And let me clarify. When I said DE don't like being tortured themselves, I was talking about the individual. Most DE are extremely paranoid and wouldn't wish to be under the torture's scapel personally.

DeathsHead
28-04-2009, 20:41
They didn't just "rape" people they chemically processed their victims into stimulants like endorphins, adrenaline, and dopamine. Its arguably the coolest psychotic thing ever.

I agree. It's really awesome. That was one of the first introductions to the 40k world I had, and it's part of what hooked me.

As far as the OP goes - forgive me for saying, but I think it's a little bit of a silly question. At some point, you can push an experience to such an extreme that it becomes nonsense to describe something as better or worse.

Who do you love more, your father or your mother? Which is 'better' - black or white? These are absurd questions, and so is the OP's question.

All that said, I always thought there was something particularly, deeply horrifying about the Emperor's Children. Slaanesh is an expression of a subtle, but rich form of darkness that I've only slowly come to appreciate, and amongst the servants of Slaanesh the Emperor's Children are particularly intriguing. Most folks conceptualize them as effete and delicate. I don't - I see them as a mixture of absolute brutishness and sophisticated evil.

It annoys me to no end when people treat Slaanesh as the deity of S&M and the color pink. That is SHALLOW. Take it deeper folks - Slaanesh isn't just about rape and torture. That's only the surface. Slaanesh is about the rape and torture of the soul. It's about blurring the boundaries between tormentor and tormented. Extreme, total degradation. Whereas the Dark Eldar have perfected physical and psychological suffering, the agents of Slaanesh use those same instruments in conjunction with profound spiritual corruption. Everything they do is augmented by and tained by the Warp. By the time the E.C tire of their victims, I imagine that those victims are no longer wholly human, but are creatures of such base perversion themselves that they can no longer distinguish between suffering and ecstacy.

incarna
28-04-2009, 21:05
My vote is that The Emporers Children are more depraved. It’s all well and good to discuss who may or may not be more adept at physical and mental torture. It’s fine to suggest that one or the other might even have some sort of sexual predications and that may or may not elevate them to the status of “most depraved.”

When it comes down to it, whatever mental and physical violations a Dark Eldar can inflict upon a hapless victim, the Emperor’s Children can match. It is the violations of the SOUL that put the Emperor’s Children over the edge. The Emperor’s Children are corrupted by warp energies and daemons and capable of invoking powers so vile that soul-rending Daemonette’s and Keepers of Secrets can manifest into reality or take possession of their bodies.

I’ve never heard any story where a Keeper of Secret or even a Daemonette poped into existence within the Dark Eldar city because of the indescribable depravity undergoing there while deprivations of the soul not only occur within the ranks of the Emperor’s Children but are a way of life.

Physical and mental depravity has its limits. Spiritual depravity does not.

Mannimarco
28-04-2009, 21:13
if slaaneshi daemons started popping up in the dark city somthing has gone horribly horribly wrong

remember the DE drain your soul to top their own up, and they do it on a much larger scale than the EC, that cant be a very pleasent experience, having your soul sucked out by an elf in bondage gear..............

Zahr Dalsk
28-04-2009, 21:35
I think the EC would enjoy it more than the Haemonculus.


Remember, they are tainted. You cannot simply "remove" parts from any Chaos Marine without it sprouting eyes and tentacles and trying to eat you.

If Dark Eldar can imprison and torture daemons (and they can) then why would they not be able to prevent the EC from mutating?


Most DE are extremely paranoid and wouldn't wish to be under the torture's scapel personally.

No, they're paranoid and don't want to lose political power. Difference. Since Dark Eldar usually torture anyone they can just for the amusement and soul energy, losing power usually means getting killed, or tortured and killed, but it's power they desire and a loss of power that they seek to avoid.

Kraxis
28-04-2009, 21:40
I'd say it's pretty even. Rwasons are pretty much given already.

Rockerfella
28-04-2009, 21:49
DE are psychopaths.

In the book Brotherhood of the snake (gips) there is one DE who when shot, sort of giggles manically to himself. They seem to take pleasure from anything.

Its not just normal pleasure either, its like... nasty.... pervy.... just plain.... weird pleasure.

Mannimarco
28-04-2009, 21:53
an EC marine would get the same wierd pleasure, assuming of course it was a new sensation to him

(btw im firmly in the DE camp on this one)

noobzor
28-04-2009, 22:57
DE- they torture just because they want to have fun.

No to mention they are entirely driven by emotion. Completely sadistic and all that.

Hamarpain
28-04-2009, 23:17
I´m gonna go with DE. They focus. EC just gets distracted by shiny things. Or bright lights.

Just go "Warble warble" and flash your markerlight when you´re up against a Ec Player.

Col. Tartleton
29-04-2009, 01:22
I guess its a good point, I reread the definition of depraved, its moral perversion. I've changed my mind.

The Dark Eldar have more perverted Morals. They've come to the point they don't see what they do is anything but normal.

Emperors Children are more along the lines of:

EC1: "Dude, Dude, Dude, this is totally ****ed up, we should totally snort these giraffe kidneys mannn, we'll get super duper high mannn!"

EC2: Yo shut the hell up b****, I'm trying to cut this **** man, we're gonna mix these kidneys with some mother-********** Phosphoric Acid. This s*** right here, this s*** right here, is gonna be so ********** raw man, this is gonna be some grimy grolic s***!"

That's not depraved that's just being an American.

Drogmir
29-04-2009, 01:38
DE don't have magical daemon powers that are fueled by humanity's and Eldar's own raw emotions for their torture.

Imp of High Noon
29-04-2009, 02:01
I say Dark Eldar, when it comes down to it, EC torture, rape etc primarily for reasons of religion, sure they can't actually enjoy any sort of mundane experience, so they're forced to pursue they extremes of sensation offered by the sorts of thing they get up to, but again this is due corruption by their particular religious leanings and the choices made by fulgrim in the early days of the heresy. So in point of fact depravity is something they simply fell into doing out of religious neccessity.

The Dark Eldar however, are utterly alien and devoid of a morality which could be easily comprehended by anyone in their right mind. They have a superiorority complex as big as the galaxy and to an extent it's justified, excepting Necrons, their technology is peerless, they are largely unchanged since the war in heaven, so they haven't needed to evolve to survive. they do what they do not out of perversity, but because they absolutly believe they have the right to.

daemonkin
29-04-2009, 08:50
EC are all about experiencing every single excess to the limits. DE are more just about torture and pain. IMHO. I know I'd rather be a DE slave than an EC plaything.

D.

Cool_Mint
29-04-2009, 10:13
Neither.

Warhammer 40,000 is not an "NC-17" or X-rated game; both the game and story are intended for a fairly wide age range but it's especially targeted at young teenagers.

There are no baby-raper armies in 40K. War in 40K is very much of the GI-Joe or Lord Of The Rings variety; to paraphrase a line from the movie Small Soldiers.. "it's not violence, it's just action".

Prokrustes
29-04-2009, 10:24
Neither.

Warhammer 40,000 is not an "NC-17" or X-rated game; both the game and story are intended for a fairly wide age range but it's especially targeted at young teenagers.

There are no baby-raper armies in 40K. War in 40K is very much of the GI-Joe or Lord Of The Rings variety; to paraphrase a line from the movie Small Soldiers.. "it's not violence, it's just action".

Sorry not agreeing with that. The concept of Slaanesh and the Dark Eldar seems to stand against this. I see however, that over the years it got toned down to a more GI-Joe level. Btw. I remember reading on the side of some old pack I bought "recommended for 16+". Which at least in Europe would allow alot of perverted stuff to be included.

NightrawenII
29-04-2009, 11:15
I agree. It's really awesome. That was one of the first introductions to the 40k world I had, and it's part of what hooked me.

As far as the OP goes - forgive me for saying, but I think it's a little bit of a silly question. At some point, you can push an experience to such an extreme that it becomes nonsense to describe something as better or worse.

Who do you love more, your father or your mother? Which is 'better' - black or white? These are absurd questions, and so is the OP's question.

All that said, I always thought there was something particularly, deeply horrifying about the Emperor's Children. Slaanesh is an expression of a subtle, but rich form of darkness that I've only slowly come to appreciate, and amongst the servants of Slaanesh the Emperor's Children are particularly intriguing. Most folks conceptualize them as effete and delicate. I don't - I see them as a mixture of absolute brutishness and sophisticated evil.

It annoys me to no end when people treat Slaanesh as the deity of S&M and the color pink. That is SHALLOW. Take it deeper folks - Slaanesh isn't just about rape and torture. That's only the surface. Slaanesh is about the rape and torture of the soul. It's about blurring the boundaries between tormentor and tormented. Extreme, total degradation. Whereas the Dark Eldar have perfected physical and psychological suffering, the agents of Slaanesh use those same instruments in conjunction with profound spiritual corruption. Everything they do is augmented by and tained by the Warp. By the time the E.C tire of their victims, I imagine that those victims are no longer wholly human, but are creatures of such base perversion themselves that they can no longer distinguish between suffering and ecstacy.

Black is better of course.:angel:

I think EC (Followers of God of Depravity) but they are equal, when it come to be captured one of them.

Altanis
29-04-2009, 12:12
Let me put this very simply.. The DE do it out of necessity.

The EC do it because they love it and will do things to you...... very bad things that can't be metioned. Plus they probably have made air into a drug just so they could be high and kill things at the same time

Zahr Dalsk
29-04-2009, 13:44
Let me put this very simply.. The DE do it out of necessity.


If by necessity you mean they feel a constant, unending urge to torture, so strong that they will even torture themselves to insanity if they have nothing else to torture, then sure, they do it by necessity.