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View Full Version : Phoenix Lords Before the Fall (or early archetypes)



Poseidal
30-04-2009, 09:42
I imagine when the Phoenix Lords started out, they weren't the epitome of the Aspect they eventually became, but fit a character archetype that grew into it.

Asurmen - He was the wise, old master that was old even before the story began (though being Eldar, you couldn't tell by looking at him). He is an all round fighter, protecting the weak from the bad guys.

Baharroth and Maugen Ra - These are the twin brothers with completely night and day personalities. Baharroth is sociable, outgoing and polite; Maugan Ra is gruff, introverted and rude. They're the comic relief and get into wacky hijinks.

Jain Zar - Unfortunately, due to the fact it's a budget martial arts movie made in the 80s, her only character trait is she's female (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenGirl). She can kick ass though, sometimes.

Fuegan - Actually the main character. He's hot blooded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotBlooded), fights for his friends and doesn't afraid of anything. He shows an 'interest' in Jain Zar but she doesn't seem to pay any attention. He doesn't think things through and rushes into situations; he's your archtypical hero.

Arhra - He's the hidden psycho, a power student. He's a good all round fighter, and very talented but his mind is bent too much on being 'the best'. He'll eventually fall to darkness in his persuit of power. Near the end of the film, he and Fuegan fight in the Temple of Asur, and Fuegan stubbornly stays and fights on, performing a Heroic Sacrifice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicSacrifice) so the others can get away.

Karandras - He only appears in the sequel. He's the new main character of the sequel, and he's an all round, sneaky fighter to contrast Fuegan (who's not really dead and does a heroic comeback near the end) but he's still a good guy.

Anyway, discuss.

Whitehorn
30-04-2009, 09:58
You need more kippers being smoked. Particularly by Fuegan who'll be back for breakfast.

Idaan
30-04-2009, 13:09
Minor nitpick: The Eldar Path and so the Shrine of Asur was founded after the Fall.

Other than that, awesome. I'd love to see a story about the Shrine of Asur, either as your comical cliche martial arts story, or something more serious.

Meriwether
30-04-2009, 13:28
Twins in fiction = evil. Evil, evil, evil. Story lines involving twins -- especially 'night-and-day' or 'totally-the-same' twins -- are extra-evil, and should be avoided as hideous cliches. Even if the fluff says that they are actual twins, they should be made non-twins for the movie version.

Meri (who is a twin married to a twin, and is easily annoyed by twin cliches).

Poseidal
30-04-2009, 13:30
Minor nitpick: The Eldar Path and so the Shrine of Asur was founded after the Fall.

Other than that, awesome. I'd love to see a story about the Shrine of Asur, either as your comical cliche martial arts story, or something more serious.

Haha, I know but I put the topic there as it's more attention grabbing and shorter than 'The Phoenix Lords at the time and a bit after the Fall and what they did at that time.'.

Also, I corrected the mistake. The Comic Relief characters are not Asurmen but Baharroth and Maugen Ra.

Also to add:

Maugen Ra is a 'fan favourite'. The fangirls seem to like his cynical dark brooding character and the guys like him for the skulls and stuff. The authors cottoned on to this so added a 'tragic history' (Altansar) to him and made him do super cool feats in the Eye of Terror.

Twins in fiction = evil. Evil, evil, evil. Story lines involving twins -- especially 'night-and-day' or 'totally-the-same' twins -- are extra-evil, and should be avoided as hideous cliches. Even if the fluff says that they are actual twins, they should be made non-twins for the movie version.

Meri (who is a twin married to a twin, and is easily annoyed by twin cliches).
Fixed the OP post for your benefit. ;)

Hellebore
30-04-2009, 13:44
You could make Karandras the apprentice that turned from the Dark Side, making him the evil assassin sidekick that performs his master's will in the first movie but realises the error of his ways when he witnesses Fuegan's Heroic Sacrifice.

The sequal is then his quest for more power in order to avenge himself on his previous master.

Or something like that.

Hellebore

Meriwether
30-04-2009, 14:23
Fixed the OP post for your benefit. ;)

Right on. :D

Meri

Poseidal
30-04-2009, 14:26
You could make Karandras the apprentice that turned from the Dark Side, making him the evil assassin sidekick that performs his master's will in the first movie but realises the error of his ways when he witnesses Fuegan's Heroic Sacrifice.

The sequal is then his quest for more power in order to avenge himself on his previous master.

Or something like that.

Hellebore

I like it. In effect, he's both in literary and literally the Sixth Ranger (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SixthRanger) who does a Heel Face Turn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn).

Idaan
30-04-2009, 14:32
Twins in fiction = evil. Evil, evil, evil. Story lines involving twins -- especially 'night-and-day' or 'totally-the-same' twins -- are extra-evil, and should be avoided as hideous cliches. Even if the fluff says that they are actual twins, they should be made non-twins for the movie version.

Meri (who is a twin married to a twin, and is easily annoyed by twin cliches). They're not literal twins as they're from different Craftworlds. They're more like soul-mates, one complementing the other while being total opposites. I don't think it's bad, besides Poseidal's story draft (;)) is all about cliches and tropes. And so is Warhammer 40000 as a whole.

NightrawenII
30-04-2009, 14:55
They're not literal twins as they're from different Craftworlds. They're more like soul-mates, one complementing the other while being total opposites. I don't think it's bad, besides Poseidal's story draft (;)) is all about cliches and tropes. And so is Warhammer 40000 as a whole.

Read the codex, under Bahharoth entry is mentioned Maugan Ra as his brother.
To be honest, I think the Maugan RA changed into Reaper after Fall of Altansar. But before he was the guy, who love flowers and all the rockenroll.;)

kikkoman
30-04-2009, 15:26
Ordered from left to right

Asurmen, Maugan Ra, Baharroth, Fuegan, Ahra, Karandras, Jain Zar

Poseidal
30-04-2009, 16:15
Ordered from left to right

Asurmen, Maugan Ra, Baharroth, Fuegan, Ahra, Karandras, Jain Zar

Kenshiro as Asurmen...

Makes a lot of sense. Born in the land of Asura, goes around in a post-apocalyptic world protecting the weak from those who want to exploit or enslave them.

Though Asurmen's fighting style is more like Nanto Seiken (slicing) than Kenshiro's Hokuto Shinken (exploding), though that's just details. Maybe Asurmen can fire shuriken in such a way that it makes the enemy explode?

Spot on with Hiei and Kurama there. :D

Max_Killfactor
30-04-2009, 16:22
Good thread.

Although now it makes me wish there really was a book about the Phoenix Lords. Each one has what, one paragraph about them? A shame. A damn shame.

Zahr Dalsk
30-04-2009, 16:29
Maybe Asurmen can fire shuriken in such a way that it makes the enemy explode?


Shrieker ammunition.

Messiah
30-04-2009, 16:33
would put Sasuke as Arhra, but hey, Orochimaru might work, he is after all, more evil.

kikkoman
30-04-2009, 17:32
Maybe Asurmen can fire shuriken in such a way that it makes the enemy explode?


Tethesis can help with the head-exploding department.

You also have that bit of ancient fluff of Asuryan vs the C'tan, he rearranges the stars in the galaxy to a sign of death for the star-god, then he explode



would put Sasuke as Arhra, but hey, Orochimaru might work, he is after all, more evil.

and then went off to found his own hidden village tucked away somewhere, training his own loyal warriors.

Poseidal
30-04-2009, 22:47
You also have that bit of ancient fluff of Asuryan vs the C'tan, he rearranges the stars in the galaxy to a sign of death for the star-god, then he explode
Only the eyes that know sadness can conjure forth such power!